Beggars and Begging

[Twilight]

Who gives enough coins to support beggars or even to make people think it is worth it?

I'm not talking just about PCs, but the world in general and how it works.  As a means of last resort, I think we can all understand why someone would beg.  But who would give to beggars?  Surely not slaves, as they probably have little enough themselves.  Most commoners would also be struggling, and even for those who were not, why bother?  Its not like this is a world where charity is necessarily perceived as a virtue.  Heck, it would be craziness for an elf unless it was to a tribemate.

Then there are the nobles.  I can see how especially some Noble Houses might do things that would be considered charitable.  However, there would be purpose behind these actions, to build support for the House, or that brief sense of good fortune that would overlay the grimness of everyday life.  And perhaps they would toss out a few alms.  But I don't think anyone could depend on that to keep them alive.

What do others think about the entire way that begging would fit into society?  Talking specifically about the begging aspect, rather than things like stealing, mugging, etc. that a begger might do to get along as well.  Does society have some sort of mechanism (like charity being a virtue in ours) that makes it possible for beggars to get along?  Or do Noble Houses prop up a portion of the population through alms for their own inscrutible but ultimately selfish ends?  Or is there something else that goes on which allows the practice itself to thrive?

[Marauder Moe]

I've wondered about that myself.  Even with my nicest characters, the act of giving charity to beggars never seemed to fit into the world.  Guilt and compassion, especially for people you don't know, seem to be uncommon emotions.  Best I can figure (and have seen, actually) is that the beggars become so annoying they get paid to leave.  Still, that's just as likely to get you in trouble as it is to get you fed.

[Forty Winks]

Although begging for a beggar, at first glance, seems to be his main profession, in most cases than not, a beggar will have some other secondary means to get the resources to survive. An alternative for beggars that comes to mind first might be as a scavenger, searching the streets and alleys for any crumbs or scraps of food. Also, what a beggar might strive to aim for when begging might not always be to gain the attention of a merciful commoner, it would most likely be to annoy the people around him enough to have them pay to get him away. So likely, while he could draw the attention of the militia or other dangerous individuals by begging, if the beggar was persistant and 'skilled' enough, he could likely milk a sid or more by simply being pesky. It's an interesting role, and actually takes both courage and wit to be able to get a profit on anything by the end of the day.

[Savak]

And, of course, beggars are beggars because they have been so successful at other jobs.

Point being, people beg because they've hit the bottom of the barrel, and in Zalanthas probably also have a physical or mental ailment making them unsuitable for the numerous crappy-paying unskilled labor jobs.  And yeah, when & where they can they probably try to make some sort of living in other ways too.

But generally, they don't become beggars as a choice of occupation, and no, it's probably not terribly successful.  But, perhaps, just survivable -- for a while.

-Savak

[JollyGreenGiant]

You don't give them money because you feel sorry for them, you give them money not to stand anywhere in your general vicinity, since they're probably loud, smell horrendous, and might be visibly lacking in things like limbs or sanity that most hale and sane people don't want to be particularly reminded on an immediate scale that they could potentially lose.

[Gaare]

I always see most beggars as part of some organization or puppet of someone powerful. Think about the one in Meleth, he is there for what.. Twenty years.. watching and listening. Probably man of a black-robe..?

Seriously, those beggars are the ones who offer some services cheaper then anyone else, also somewhat trustful. As a tribal when you arrive, there is probably no one better than a beggar to tell you about the place and in exchange of a few sids. If beggar tells a lie.. well you know where to find him.. so why would he really lie? Probably a beggar knows the most harsh Templar on the road, or the cheapest food you can find.. even the best prostetude. They are artisans with the lowest quality. They are beggars because they beg others to accept their non-valuable services.

[Asnoboy]

Well, obviously, as Savak stated, beggars are not very successful, at least not usually, at begging, if they did, THOUSANDS of people would rather try to be a beggar instead of carrying, cleaning, protecting and getting all tired under Suk-krath if they could be just sitting around and getting easy 'sid.

 Beggars are most of the times thieves as well, not necesarily good, but, as said before, this is due to desperation, desperation leads you to beg, or take what you need, by any means necesary.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

I think beggars can survive if all the vnpcs/npcs are players as well. Thousands and thousands of them [npcs/vnpcs that is]. They have their place in the game, because societies usually have beggars. Beg for food/money/garbage, scavenge in the bins,fight for scraps.

A successful beggar requires pity from the general populace.

Even though vnpcs,npcs are real as they are, they don't give. A beggar in game can only survive on the few pcs [60ish-70 on peak, divide that by half and minus a few off]. People usually don't throw things away. Npcs/Vnpcs do that alot, but a beggar can't survive on nothing.  A beggar is weak, when there is no one to beg from.

[Maybe42or54]

If you are a beggar IG, dig a fuckin' whole in one of the many trash piles. You'll find somethine you can eat, or atleast chew on.

[jstorrie]

PC beggars will have a very hard time of things, and they should. Zalanthas is a tough place to live, and beggars have it the toughest.

I've recently had a PC literally get down to no resources and no allies, and even then begging was not an attractive option. I doubt many Zalanthans would beg if they had any other option, given that charity is hardly a universal virtue there.

[Maybe42or54]

And the beggers only need to distract you by grabbing your arm while half the shit in your backpack goes missing, or your favorite sword.

[Twilight]

If beggars were all thieves, then they wouldn't be beggars.  They would be thieves, and the entire way society views them, and their place in society, would change.  I was interested in the macro level, in their place in society and how it is that they survive when things like charity are not a virtue.

A PC can pretty much do anything, and could probably survive as a beggar even if society itself didn't support begging.  So talking about PCs is kind of useless when talking about the bigger picture, as you can't extrapolate PC behaviour to how the society or culture behaves.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I would say that most people who give money to beggars are people who aren't far away from being beggars themselves.  Break your back when you're lugging rocks, accidently beat up your templar's most valuable informant, or if your man seizes your positions and leaves you with the kids so he can find greener pastures, and you just might be looking for a vacant street corner next Nekrete.

With that in mind, it doesn't seem like an entirely bad idea to toss a few coins to these miserable wretches, in the hopes that those above you will show the same kindness should you ever fall that far.

[HardCarbon]

Living where I  do   beggers are  a fact of life

Fuck em


yep

[bloodfromstone]

I've seen people (and done it myself) occasionally toss scraps of food or useless items to beggars (NPC or vNPC) before junking. I imagine they spend a lot of time scrambling after things that people drop and lose in the middle of the crowded streets.

[amoeba]

I've seen people (and done it myself) occasionally toss scraps of food or useless items to beggars (NPC or vNPC) before junking. I imagine they spend a lot of time scrambling after things that people drop and lose in the middle of the crowded streets.

Why doi I get the mental picture of someone throwing bits of french fries to the birds while sitting at a McDonalds.  Can't shake the image of grown men and women scrambling about pushing each other aside for the scrap.  Btw, those were always the fatest birds I ever saw.