On Oppression, Destruction, and the Problem of Fales

[novel_hero]

What spreads out before you in the following rambling paragraphs are my thoughts on oppression, aristocracy, and the problem of the Fales. They are my opinion, I do not mean them to start fights, and on the contrary I hope it provokes thought. If anyone has improvements on my rant or think I am completely wrong, please respond in a mature manner and we can have chats. :B I do not want this to start flame wars. Heck no. I also mean no disrespect to the imms or their decisions by this rant.

The purpose of this rant is to describe why I am Fale-obsessed, and why I really, really wish they would come back some how, some way, and hopefully to interest people further in the potentials of what a Fale could be. Because they can be very cool, very subtle, very lovely characters, and I feel that their full potential lies with the future and perhaps in some of my ideas here as modifiers to their true mission.

With that said, here we go~!

Intellectually, I would have to say that (excuse me if my facts are a bit rusty), an upper-class caste trying to successfully oppress a much larger and potentially much stronger lower class does it in several ways:

Financial oppression
Mental oppression
Emotional oppression
Spiritual oppression

Notice I didn't say physical oppression. Most often, physical oppression is an illusion. If a large lower class with years of physical strength from hard labor attempted to overthrow a smaller, however well-trained upper class, the upper class would find themselves beaten not by skill but by the sheer numbers. I'm not sure of the actual ratio, but if a templar was swarmed by a large enough amount of smelly rinth rats he would eventually go down, no matter what kind of fancy stuff he pulled out of his butt. He would tire after obliterating the first two dozen and the next wave would gnaw on his stripped femurs. Same with an army. If your odds are 1 to 10, and the people on the 1 side have armor and obsidian swords and the 10 side have nothing but some pointy rocks and generations of ABSOLUTE RAGE, the guys with the swords will take out a few and then be totally pwned by the others. In short: There are simply more commoners than can be taken out. Especially considering the trained commoners that might be on the side of the upper classes for now but at first whiff of revolution would turncoat, it being a call from their very roots.

So how DO small numbers of organized oppressors take down screaming, hornet-like mobs? Furthermore, how do they keep those little drones from organizing into the insurmountable wave in the first place?

Through manipulation.

It is absolutely no coincidence that Hitler's first move in his plot to take over the world was not to begin massacring Jews as most think, but to first dismantle the Bauhaus, premier art school of Europe. The purpose of a real artist is to spread ideas, especially those involving betterment of the human race, quickly and efficiently throughout the entire populous. Without artists, writers, and scientists, those loud speakers for the common people, the humanitarian implications of Hitler's ideas were successfully repressed for quite some time.

Tektolnes has successfully done this in Zalanthas by outlawing reading, writing, and spice, and likely censorship of visual art through having templars on the lookout for treason. Allanaki commoners have lost their methods of communication -- it's simple fact that the written word travels more quickly and with higher trueness to the original message than aural communication does. This is mental oppression -- the denial of any stray thought or communication meant to suggest revolt.

Next is financial oppression. This is fairly obvious, just stripping resources from common folk until they begin to believe it's not there at all. Who knows? Has anyone ever played a character high enough to know how much food and water is -actually- available in Allanak? For all anyone knows, Allanak could have enough food to allow everyone within city walls to feast until they die, but if the commoners knew that, it'd be chaos. And that's the point. The commoners, thinking they have very little, are now focused on the bare trivialities of survival, scraping simply to eat, let alone think for a minute about fairness. Comforts can be rewarded in small amounts to those who prove the most bloodthirsty, and by giving them some of them meager luxuries (a la nobility) they will willingly help in thinking they are cheating the others out of their fair shares, when in reality not even the nobility are getting their net fair share in the first place.

Spiritual oppression isn't as big on ARM as it is in other places (such as the catholic empire of the dark ages), but it could still potentially play a part. People made to feel as though they are filthy and turned away from by god will suffer a lowering of morale, a desperation to repair their sins and gain that faraway hope of a happy afterlife. People fear two things most commonly: rejection, and death. Spiritual oppression plays upon both of those. It would be interesting to explore this more fully in the ARM universe.

Lastly is the big one, my main point, emotional oppression. I feel that the Fales were really the most important for this type of oppression. It involves the general distraction of the common people and making them truly believe they are inferior. By being poufy, flouncy, idiots skating about, wearing utterly excessive outfits, eating excessive things, and having outrageous ideas, they gave common people both a sense of connection and division. That is, people had a high celebrity ideal to look up to and attempt to emulate, while at the same time being hit with the sharp reality that they would never obtain such loveliness and radiance in their lives. They simply are not as fancy-free or elegant or articulate or clever or fun or popular or generally as perfect as the Fale family. Not to say that I agree with every single Fale practice... they could have been a little less stupid, and a little more "pretty", and done very well to fill their role as emotional manipulators and divine examples. In short, emotional oppressors (modern-day examples being any pop star, rapper, or stupid actor/actress you can think of) do their job by creating just enough satisfaction in the people by giving them dreams to live by, those dreams being incredibly misguided and completely unattainable. The common people then proceed to self-destruct by way of becoming materialistic, jealous, and greedy, focused completely on the unimportant things and never dreaming of the things mental oppression attempts to cover up. Turning against each other to obtain the things they see the Fales dancing around with. Communication is destroyed and revolt is null.

Emotional and mental oppression go hand-in-hand. Another less obvious effect of emotional oppression is the further destruction of art. Fales, being the role models they were, could have potentially sanctioned any form of art imaginable and have it be loved by anyone and everyone. That means, they can point to the idiot things and subsequently AWAY from the important things. Like... "Justice? What Justice? LOOK EVERYONE OMFG AN ERDLU WIT NO BONES LOLZ~!!!11!!1one!!"

Let me show an example. The Fales are once more about to throw a party, and they are going to select a musician to play for the entire city, which is eagerly watching through the bars of the gates. Monsieur Artiste is clever and forthright and sings songs of idealism, heroism, liberty and justice for all. He's done a LOT of figuring for a little commoner and he is brilliant.

Fales: *all staring at each other through fluttery eyelashes* ...BORING~!!! Bring us our floppy erdlus~!!!

People: .... *thinking: Hey, the Fales think that guy is boring. Fales = Ideal Human Beings = I want to be like them~!!* Hey, we think that guy is boring~!

Monsieur Artiste never sings again. Probably because his tongue is now cut out. Imagine the ideas he could have spread if he'd been a commoner favorite.

Who, if not the Fales, are going to do that job now? I didn't know the other houses even cared.

So how do ideal Fales make everyone love them? By being beautiful, sweet with commoners, popular, and by giving commoners tiny, insignificant gifts that seem like bits of heaven but are really pieces of kank dung. Think of the typical idea of a famous actress. She has incredible clothing, the face of an angel, the body of a sex-demon, healthy habits and fascinating hobbies, not to mention that she is incredibly "talented" (by today's rotten standards), never hurts or insults anyone, all the guys insta-bone when she walks by, and she gives to charity. Now that she's in the world, everyone wants to marry her, be her, LIVE her. They'll die to collect bits and pieces of her, even if they have to pay out the nose for "her" memerobilia. People begin to obsess. People begin to neglect hobbies and interests that would make them better people such as cleaning up their communities, dieting and exercising, spending time with their kids. They don't give a damn -- they want HER.

The face of a Fale.

This is also the reason why I disagree with Fales being harsh and dismembering people. They could even pretend to dislike it, along with other crude practices. Of course the other noble houses never listen to them, they're in on the whole joke. The Fales don't actually care about the people, they just pretend to be on their side to disillusion them. EMOTIONALLY DISTRACT them. The dark side of the Fales is that inside the beautiful skin there is rotten fruit, a people who know very well that the things they portray do not exist, and yet they will portray them anyways because people will pay for it -- into their pockets -- because their own disillusionment says it will help them to survive. Fales are not really stupid or egalitarian. They're in fact perhaps the most Darwinian of them all. They don't even have to lift a finger to enslave a city-state. They are, to use a common phrase, angels of death, and rule with an iron kiss.

All this talk of them being a low house, of being hated by other houses, of being out of favor will only strengthen the Fale rapport with the common people and in turn strengthen the seduction. The common people will assume "Hey, we're low. We're hated. We're out of favor. FRIENDS~!" Making it all the easier for Fales to say that the new fashion is eating crap and people will do it. The Fales would not want to be high on the scale, or to appear too unattainable. They would want to seem forever on the verge of peril, so high and mighty and yet so downtrodden, so that their friends in low places will forever do exactly as they say in the hopes of helping their heroes and lovers. In that case, if Tektolnes had a new insult to place upon the people, why wouldn't he tell the Fales about it first?

To sum it up, I have proposed a large amount of information here regarding oppression and the smart way to rule a large body of people with a small amount of human resources, and I hope that you will find some of it to be truthful. I request that this article be considered by everyone interested in the Fale situation and that if any of it rings true, those in charge please let me know. I of course respect the decisions of the imms and am thankful for their hard work over the years, and I hope that my contribution is worthwhile. If by any chance the Fales are reinstated... call me first~! OMG, please~!

Thanks for sticking with me.

Fin.

[waroth]

Interesting read.  I enjoyed your post.

[Rindan]

Interesting, but I completely disagree that what you describe is the intent of House Fale or that house Fale ever accomplished what you described during its run.

First, the root of Allanaki oppression is the fact that Allanak is a massive city in a barren wasteland.  There will never be an uprising because even if the templars and militia that cover the streets and make up significant portion of the population couldn't put it down, and even if the they didn't unleash the gemmed on the commoners, and even if the god king himself didn't crush them as he has crushed more then one enemy, they would still all be dead in the end.  The power base of Allanak is build upon the fact that those in power control the food, water, and protection of the city.  If those in power left, the city would promptly crumble and everyone would die.  If there is one thing the powers of Allanak make sure the commoners understand, it is the fact that they are all that stands between them and certain death in the wastelands.

The fact that the Highlord is what stands between the commoners and the certain death of the waste lands is what gives the Highlord the right and moral authority to create nobility, templars, militia, and the entire class system.  The protector and sole reason why commoners even exist in the city, the Highlord, has the right to pick favorites (nobility) to receive his best gifts for their loyal service.  This might not sit right with a modern day interpretation of society, but for an Allanak commoner whose entire existence is owed to the Highlord, it is reality.

As far as House Fale, it is true that one of their jobs, to an extent, is to appease the commoners with art and music.   That said, I would say their function has much more to do with spreading propaganda then it has to do with being movie stars or being distracting in their foolishness.  House Fale is the house that educates the population to the important fact that the Highlord is all that stands between them and death.

Part of the power structure of Allanak is the idea that nobility truly are superior to commoners and this is why they get the best treatment from the Highlord.  Having a Fale making a fool of himself and acting stupid in the Gaj does not exactly reinforce this image.  When House Fale was shut down, you were more likely to find a Fale acting like an idiot in the Gaj, then you were to find a refined art critic with a sense of style of the Traders.

[Incognito]

I had to double check to ensure that I wasnt seeing wrong:
novel_hero - joined - August 21, 2005 !!!

Is this just a new account for an old player?
Or a new player who's learned about the mud in 24 hours flat?

Had to ask - coz the "length" of the original post is impressive!

Edited to add:
Never mind, I found out the answer to my question ;)
Welcome back - to an old player!

[EvilRoeSlade]

I agree with Rindan, and furthermore, what you've just outlined is why -Allanak- needs House Fale.  Which has absolutely nothing to do with why we as a MUD need House Fale to be a playable clan.  Fale was closed because its players couldn't properly play Fale nobles.  I would much rather see a city elf tribe or a clan for human commoners that don't work for a noble house than I would yet another noble house clan.  Variety people.  Variety.

[novel_hero]

I'll get to responding to your challenges later. :3 Right now I've got to take off and do some things, but I want to give it a good, mature answer.

Later -- few hours or so

[novel_hero]

Okay, here goes. Maybe not perfect, but I tried.

Rindan -- your entire paragraph on powerful people controlling resources... didn't I cover that in "financial oppression"?

I already answered that one. Yup, I basically said the same thing as you except that I looked into why that occurs. It's a strategy, it may or may not have any grounding at all in an illusionless Zalanthas. If other people can survive in worse places (a la tribals of various types) why couldn't Allanakis? What's the difference? They're simply a much larger tribe.

Furthermore on the king having rights to create social strata... If he was that powerful, why are commoners still even alive? The truth of the matter is that commoners eat resources. They need to be fed, housed, walked, and taken to the vet like any other pet. If Tektolnes were THAT powerful, a much smarter move would be to kill the commoners and take whatever they'd have used for himself.

But he doesn't. Why not?

1) There are way too many. Tektolnes might be bluffing when he says he can destroy the entire city like that. Dragging out his dire worst, when it comes down to it all it takes is one more angry commoner than what he can kill off and he's lost. It'd be like fighting raindrops -- easily destroyed and completely witless, but you'd never imagine walking outside without being hit by one.

2) Commoners serve a purpose. They are the entire financial sector of the city. They do every bit of backbreaking, tedious, hands-in-the-dirt task ever needed and the upper sectors do... nothing. They consume and patrol. To kill the commoners means to have to do all that work yourself. Templars and other law enforcement pretend like commoners aren't necessary and kill off the examples because the amount they kill off in proportion to how many there are is an insignificant amount. No commoners = Tektolnes makes his own dinner.

On Fales not doing their jobs... I agree. They really didn't act up to par. Not even the most infamous of them, whom I have had the pleasure of meeting personally in my day and spending quite a lot of time with, never really had the impact they should have. I also understand that it'd be a flat-out pain in the ass for imms to try and police a future Fale's behavior. BUT, like any other difficult position, that isn't to say it can't be tried with players better educated in the background that won't need so much policing. The key there is better education. I do not actually know what the member help files looked like for House Fale (though I would love to see them), but I can bet even the best Fales totally ignored them.

Basically what I'm saying is that this house does have massive potential, and not in the way some desert elf tribe could deliver it. It is in fact experiential variety -- the chance to interact with or play someone who isn't on the blood-and-gore side of things, and yet still has a hold on the world. There is more than one way to oppress a society is what I've been trying to say, and you may find that death/fear of death isn't the worst fate at all.

[Rindan]

Rindan -- your entire paragraph on powerful people controlling resources... didn't I cover that in "financial oppression"?

You did mention it, but we clearly disagree over what it means.  You approach it like it is a strategy invented by the powers that be and that it is only a small tier of the overall scheme of control.  On the other hand, I believe it is the absolute most fundamental root of control and that everyone believes it absolutely (for good reason).  Allanak doesn't have water or food without the Highlord.  Period.  This is absolute control.

I already answered that one. Yup, I basically said the same thing as you except that I looked into why that occurs. It's a strategy, it may or may not have any grounding at all in an illusionless Zalanthas. If other people can survive in worse places (a la tribals of various types) why couldn't Allanakis? What's the difference? They're simply a much larger tribe.

Now that is just silly.  Allanak is not simply 'a much larger tribe'.  It is close to half of the known worlds population stuffed into an area smaller then your average modern day city in a barren waste land.  Desert elves that are master of desert living struggle to use the comparatively plentiful resources of the tablelands to maintain populations over a wide area that doesn't even measure up to one block of the Allanaki commons.  The idea that even a tiny fraction of the people in Allanak would survive if suddenly food and water was cut is just preposterous, and every commoner knows it.

Furthermore on the king having rights to create social strata... If he was that powerful, why are commoners still even alive? The truth of the matter is that commoners eat resources. They need to be fed, housed, walked, and taken to the vet like any other pet. If Tektolnes were THAT powerful, a much smarter move would be to kill the commoners and take whatever they'd have used for himself.

Speculating on Tek's motives is rather futile.  What can be said is that it is unlikely the commoners have anything Tek wants to take.  What is he going to take from your average commoner?  His shit hut house, rotten cotton shirt, ratty pair of shoes, and crotch rot linen pants?  What brings Tek happiness?  Does he like having throngs of people worship him?  Does he feel himself altruistic in protecting the city? Does like having them as an army to do fighting when he doesn't want to expend his power?  Who knows?

What is known is that if Tek wants to destroy the city, he absolutely can.  If he wanted all the commoners dead, they would be dead.  He could do it violently and simply set up a nice wall of flames between the noble quarts and the rest of the city and watch the rest of the city die.  That, or he could march out of the city one day with his templars and soldiers and cut off the water and food.  Tek controls the army, which is massive.  He controls the gemmed and templars, which are powerful.  He has a complete monopoly on force, foood, and water.

All Allanaki understand one fact if they understand absolutely nothing else.  Every Allanaki knows this, from the noble aid, to the Byn mercenary, to the 'rinth rat.  Everything outside of Allanak is death given a little time.  What exists out there doesn't offer even the tiniest of a fraction of the food needed, nor the water satisfy the population of Allanak.  Allanak is stable not because House Fale is good at distracting commoners and making them feel worthless, it is because Tek controls the food, water, and force with such absolute force and authority that rebellion is unthinkable to the vast majority.

Yes yes, the workers control the means of production, blah, blah.  Yeah, I know Marxist theory too.  It doesn't apply to god kings with cities in the middle of barren wastelands that have absolute control over the water, food, magik, and force.

[jstorrie]

Allanak is not an industrial society and the Joe Commoners do not control the means of production. The vast majority of what is produced and consumed comes from merchant houses, large organizations with tons of slaves, and state-run mines, farms and vineyards. The average commoner contributes next to nothing to this economy.

Fale's position in Allanak is significant, but not really critical. Commoners generally won't band together to overthrow the templarate for many, many good reasons, including:

-pillar of fiery death
-cloud of hideously scarring acid
-half-giants with clubs

but also including

-the commoner next to you can rat you out for a few large and live like an aide for the rest of his life
-the templarate have magick on their side, and could be anywhere, listening in
-if Muk/Tek is gone, Tek/Muk will come and enslave you
-Muk/Tek/the templarate are all that stand between you and mantis/gith/beasts/halflings/psion-ninja-sorcerors

and of course, logistical problems like

-many of the commoners are thieving elves / crazy dwarves / scummy humans that will never work with you
-there is no mass media, so the only way to spread your message is through the very dangerous word-of-mouth
-you have no weapons, no money, no food and no water

Fale pales in scale.

[marko]

I read through the original post and found it to be engaging and interesting in that it brings up a lot of aspects for discussion.  What follows are my thoughts to the original post.  

I'm not sure of the actual ratio, but if a templar was swarmed by a large enough amount of smelly rinth rats he would eventually go down, no matter what kind of fancy stuff he pulled out of his butt. He would tire after obliterating the first two dozen and the next wave would gnaw on his stripped femurs.

Wrong.

And since that probably isn't enough of an explanation: you are leaving out that the templars are infused with the unlimited potential power of the Sorcerer King.  Therefore, yes, a Blue Robe may be overwhelmed simply because he does not have the full favor of the Highlord but...

A Red Robe could slaughter hundreds of commoners alone.

A Black Robe could slaughter the entire city if they so decided.

Therefore, your premise is fatally flawed from the start.  We'll move on to the next.  

Btw, if you wish to bring up that the commoners have magickers amongst them.  That is fine but the majority of those are gemmed = chained = cannot rise up and are controlled.  Against an ungemmed magicker a templar will, most of the time (within the walls of Allanak), win out anyway.

Same with an army. If your odds are 1 to 10, and the people on the 1 side have armor and obsidian swords and the 10 side have nothing but some pointy rocks and generations of ABSOLUTE RAGE, the guys with the swords will take out a few and then be totally pwned by the others. In short: There are simply more commoners than can be taken out.

The army is led by templars.  Look up to see the reasoning as to why your basic assumption is again fatally flawed.

Just so you know there was once a slave revolt in Allanak.  The end result - they were slaughtered without making a significant dent in the militia's overall strength.  The templars slaughtered the slaves.

Tektolnes has successfully done this in Zalanthas by outlawing reading, writing, and spice, and likely censorship of visual art through having templars on the lookout for treason. Allanaki commoners have lost their methods of communication -- it's simple fact that the written word travels more quickly and with higher trueness to the original message than aural communication does. This is mental oppression -- the denial of any stray thought or communication meant to suggest revolt.

Wrong on many counts.

First, visual arts exist everywhere in Allanak.  From paintings, statues, and other recognized forms to magickal displays of artistry.  If you have ever been in the Elemental Quarter you would see magickers who engage in all manner of creative artistry.  If you walk through Allanak you see statues; you will see paintings in the Estates and even chalk drawings in the homes of commoners.  In other words - you are wrong about visual arts being repressed or banned.

Next, written vs oral traditions.  The history of Celtic culture shows that your western view of a written tradition being stronger than an oral tradition is flawed.  An oral tradition can be far superior than a written tradition and information is not lost from one generation to the next.  An oral tradition relies entirely on memory and thus its membership develop superb memories that a written tradition actually destroys.  

With a written tradition the people of the society become so lazy that they can no longer even spell words properly.  People in a written tradition become incapable of remembering the most simple of historical events because they no longer have to.  You need only look it up in a book.  As such, a written tradition is intrinsically worse for maintaining historical accuracy than an oral tradition.  After all, books can be burned and rewritten (as has happened countless times through our history) whereas an oral tradition relies on faithful tellings with no deviation from the original.  Any deviation would destroy the oral tradition.  So, once again, you are wrong.

Next is financial oppression. This is fairly obvious, just stripping resources from common folk until they begin to believe it's not there at all. Who knows? Has anyone ever played a character high enough to know how much food and water is -actually- available in Allanak? For all anyone knows, Allanak could have enough food to allow everyone within city walls to feast until they die, but if the commoners knew that, it'd be chaos.

Logic jumps based on assumptions that may or may not be true.  In other words purely conjecture and speculation with no attempt to establish a factual base.  This invalidates any argument that follows so it will be ignored.

And, as an aside, I have been in roles that know the answer to your question.

Lastly is the big one, my main point, emotional oppression. I feel that the Fales were really the most important for this type of oppression. It involves the general distraction of the common people and making them truly believe they are inferior. By being poufy, flouncy, idiots skating about, wearing utterly excessive outfits, eating excessive things, and having outrageous ideas, they gave common people both a sense of connection and division.

Basic underlying assumption:  Fale is full of idiots who engage in excessive behavior.  

Reality?  Without having the Fale documents in front of us, without speaking to the original founders of Fale, and without understanding the overall nature of Allanak's culture, power structure, and purpose of the Noble Caste you are left stating your own opinions that are, again, based on assumptions that may be entirely false.  

My point?  Your discourse is nothing more than words in a void with no relevance to anything and thus won't have any effect.

So how do ideal Fales make everyone love them? By being beautiful, sweet with commoners, popular, and by giving commoners tiny, insignificant gifts that seem like bits of heaven but are really pieces of kank dung.

Wrong.

Every iteration of Fale nobility (through every Fale immortal shift) had them being Nobles and not Commoner Lovers (or even caring if the Commoners liked them or not).  In fact, more often than not, Fale exemplified Nobility and not some twisted Commoner Loving noble house.  Nobility is above Commoners.  Plain and simple.  There is no need for a Noble House going out of its way to buy the love and admiration of the Common Caste since that implies that they need the Commoners and, simply put, they do not.

This is also the reason why I disagree with Fales being harsh and dismembering people. They could even pretend to dislike it, along with other crude practices.

That's fine.  For your self-created vision of Fale that is, once again, as valid as words in a void.  I suggest the next time you take the effort to write something this long and in-depth that you anchor it to historical events within the game world and link it back to the culture of Allanak through example, quotation of Allanaki docs, and roleplay logs.  

What you have done is created an image in your own mind that is entirely disjointed with the reality of the game.  

To sum it up, I have proposed a large amount of information here regarding oppression and the smart way to rule a large body of people with a small amount of human resources, and I hope that you will find some of it to be truthful.

I found the majority to be invalid and false.  Sometimes it was blatantly wrong and failing to take into account the culture, history, and social structure of Allanak.  

If by any chance the Fales are reinstated... call me first~! OMG, please~!

If they do re-open Fale I hope they ask you because you clearly have a lot of zeal about them.  I would just ask that you would read their documentation and work WITH it instead of creating your own vision and sticking with it.  If you stuck with your own version of Fale well, then, I would hope that you would not be asked to play a Fale.  

In the meantime, I suggest you read all the Allanak documentation and seriously give it some thought before you create a vision (and then expound that view publically) that isn't accurate.

[Maybe42or54]

Yes.. And not many people would have the balls to fight against a red robe, let alone a black robe. That would be like fighting Tek himself if they saw a black robe staring at them.

[Huntress]

I, for one, agree with much of novel_hero's approach and it is the only time I ever thought I could play a Fale - by using his approach.

Well thought out and well written.

Regarding Marco's post that templars have this unlimited power and the average blue robe couldn't be brought down by a swarm of rinth rats - you're wrong.

Plenty of templars have died to overwelming numbers or tougher opponents.  While the reds and blacks are obviously very powerful, they too are limited by the fact that they are virtually powerless without the Highlord's gifts.  Suffice to say that Red and Blues have died in the game (and plenty of Blues at that) show that the Highlord doesn't give unlimited power.

[Naiona]

The following is my personal opinion and not official staff policy or documentation:

PC Blue Robes have been overwhelmed by sheer numbers of opponents.  They have also, in game, brought down crowds of dozens of rioting commoners without incident - in the past real life year. The half giant troops of the Arm of the Dragon are well conditioned to serve their master's will.

A Red Robe can be killed if caught unaware.  Catching one unaware and without their powers is not something easily or often done.  A much more likely and common scenario is the near-instant death of everyone anywhere nearby such an attempt.

Seeing a Black Robe in public is enough to make the most hardened mercenary wet themselves.

Marko's post is pretty close to the mark.  Frankly, the Templarate -is- pretty unlimited in power and would think nothing of killing thousands to accomplish their goals - after all, commoners reproduce and food can be as easily created with magick as with phyiscal labor.  The weight of oppression in both city states is overwhelming and far beyond anything we can imagine in real life, yet it is all anyone living knows, and to even think of revolting is highly unusual and something almost everyone would consider foolish and death-worthy.

[marko]

Regarding Marko's post that templars have this unlimited power and the average blue robe couldn't be brought down by a swarm of rinth rats - you're wrong.

Plenty of templars have died to overwelming numbers or tougher opponents.  While the reds and blacks are obviously very powerful, they too are limited by the fact that they are virtually powerless without the Highlord's gifts.  Suffice to say that Red and Blues have died in the game (and plenty of Blues at that) show that the Highlord doesn't give unlimited power.

If you notice I purposefully made it very clear that everything I wrote was in regards to these templars being within the walls of Allanak.  In other words, they have complete and total access to the Highlord's favor there.  You will also note that I said Blues could be taken down by a crowd.  I know this as a personal fact - I had a blue robe taken down by a swarm of 'rinthers.  

In fact, this is exactly what I wrote:

Therefore, yes, a Blue Robe may be overwhelmed simply because he does not have the full favor of the Highlord but...

If we read that we see that means a Blue Robe can and will die.  I think that's pretty clear cut and is in complete agreement with your... argument.  Which means, you are agreeing with my post.  I'm glad we have that cleared up.

Can a Red Robe be killed?  Yes, a Red Robe can be killed with extreme planning within the walls of Allanak.  I know of one in the entire time that I've played Arm that died within the walls of Allanak.  That one died in a very unusual and exceptional situation.  The others all died beyond the walls.

But, if a Red were ready and out on the street against a horde of commoners - them commoners are going down.

Anyway, I'm responding to this because I felt I needed to clarify that at a basic level your post was in agreement with mine about Blue Robes.

[Anonymous]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to respond in short jots... I've gotten a case of tendonitis and I'm trying to keep my overuse of keyboards down. But I will get around to finishing things up.

First of all, thank you to everyone who's responded to my little article, even those of you that have disagreed. I'll take the disagreements into consideration as best I can,  but as I said, this might be a little clippy... so here goes. I just want to make it clear I value all input and this isn't a personal bitchfight. ^_^

Yes, I agree with Rindan and Markos that my speculations are better suited to a "real world" model rather than Zalanthas, where artistic rights to change the rules are total. Yes, it is true that a creator might not follow real world logic and employ things like magic into very prominent slots in the consideration of things.

I still believe that it would at least have SOME relevance even if some details were missed. I tried my best to speak on a general level, the things you would base a description on before it would be changed by the author.

I still do not believe it's true that commoners have no place in the economy. Nobles don't farm. They employ commoners to farm. Nobles don't carve weaponry. They employ crafters -- from the common sector. Nobles don't even defend themselves -- they employ guards. That therefor means that commoners are a considerable percentage of the work force, even if only taking into account the number of workers needed to feed, clothe, guard, and amuse every member of the nobility in the city. Commoners at least outnumber nobility. I have no numbers on templarate so I won't comment. Naiona has offered an imm perspective on templarate I will not argue with.

For reference, my operating definition of commoner is: anyone that is not nobility, templarate, royalty, or an achiever of a very high post in a large organization.

In a real society, the results are only aggravated in a rural society, even as opposed to an industrial society. There's some leverage in an industrial society, whereas a farming community depends on the people's sense of placement within that heirarchy. If people withdraw their support from that community, dependent on the work they do, everyone takes a blow. The withdrawers would understand of course that it's suicide, but in a serious situation some may not even care.

But I suppose I'll have to say again: Artistic rights. If the imms say that's not the way it is... *shrug* I'd be the first person interested in a detailed document about their take on the whole dictatorship thing. Maybe there's one floating around and I missed it. I spent a lot of time scouring the site before writing this but hey, I could have skipped over it by accident. If it's there, point it out, by all means.

Regarding the arts... I'm willing to bet there isn't a single case of treasonous visual representations anywhere in Allanak. Why? Because of course the artist would be fried and the work erased. Exactly my point -- the watering down and/or destruction of information. Perhaps I didn't state that clearly enough, and in that case, I apologize.

As for oral traditions I have only to cite the most prevalent mythology. Myths are usually begun in truth and through years of exaggeration, purposeful mistellings, or simply from mishearing the story, the message is skewed. Anyone ever play telephone? Once the whispered message gets to the end of the line, the information is often totally scrambled. In contrast, a clearly written message on paper only has a very few interpretations (not withstanding any purposely vague pieces, or pieces that use a large number of uncommon words ie. the Bible, the code of law...)

House Fale and being full of idiots: There are two things we know -- the way Fales have been played, and that there is frequent disapproval of their methods. I know there are various posts out there stating that same thing. I didn't clarify this point enough either. I'd like to offer a better understanding, but as it is being without the real creator's ideas, I'll have to operate on what I know. Yes, Markos, should the real creator correct me, I wouldn't second-guess it, but at this point the best anyone can do is to reconstruct the society, even parts of society that aren't commonly considered, as best as the individual can and attempt to define the role of House Fale within that operation. There is as of yet no doubt in my mind that the house plays a considerable part, or else it never would have been written.

The best course of action, however, is for both you and I to stop bantering. Neither of us are imms and we are equally prone to being incorrect. I agree with you just about as much as you agree with me, which is rather slim, so in order to have the real answer to the question posed we would need to see those documents.

Markos, no offense but I feel your interpretation of the connection between the castes of society shows a disregard for that connection at all. You didn't supply any argument as to why commoners and non-commoners even coexist in the same city if non-commoners have no need for them. Logically (though not necessarily artistically), commoners could and should then be disposed of, as it frees up those resources commoners undoubtedly consume in order to exist. A body of thousands of commoners would eat a massive amount of food even if the per capita portion was meager. How does this make sense to you? I'm looking for a correlation between the effort supposedly put out by the undefined producers in your world view and the payoff they get for producing it. If the equation leans completely on the side of effort and no payoff, why does it happen?

To sum it up, I did the best I could with what I know. I still have unanswered questions, such as... If Tektolnes has no need for commoners, why do commoners still live? What modifications to real-world logic have been made by the imms in order to create the type of situation needed to support this game, as relates to Tektolnes and commoner proliferation? Does the character Tektolnes have any boundaries from what we know of as natural law, or is he purposely a creative blank?

I invite anyone who would enjoy it to correct my original article and create a balanced worldview that works. I look forward to seeing what the combined efforts creates. If the original author of the game has these networks already written out I would be glad to hear that too, even if those documents can not be shown to players. If that's the case, I have to respectfully ask if there is anything that can be shown, considering the perspective it would offer on playing a character in this world.

Thanks again for your input.

[marko]

Since I do not with to engage in a protracted argument against the original poster, I will point out a couple of things and be done with it.

First, my response offered no extended explanations on purpose.  When the original premise of an argument is skewed and with little merit there isn't much point to provide an alternative.  Clearly there is a particular point of view that is held and will be held against all considerations.  I only wished to show that this point of view was based on flawed logic and did so.  

To go into depth on the matter would take hours of time and is actually a matter that the immortal staff discusses regularly and reviews.  From these discussions come the wealth of documentation that everyone has access to - and further documentation that is restricted to being in particular clans or involved in particular aspects of the game.  If the original poster had read this documentation they would probably not have posted the original post as it was.

Yes, there is a lot more complexity to the game environment, the social structures, the power hierarchies, and the economic scope within the game.  But, most of this is the domain of the immortals and left to the rest to explore, discover, and to guess at as characters delve into it in the game.  

Sometimes it will not make sense on the surface but that is usually because a person gets caught up on a particular viewpoint or belief (ie, written tradition or the repression of the arts) as they pertain to the real world and not a fantasy realm.  

This is not to say that open discussion on these concepts is not welcome, on the contrary, often times such discussions lead to a further understanding and grasp of how specific aspects of the game work.  Unfortunately, in this case, the original premises were way off base and there was no way to bring them back in line with the actuality of the game world.  Therefore, I left my post as one to point out these flaws so people would not walk away thinking what was originally written was correct in any way, shape, or form.

To understand more about the game world I implore people to read the documentation.  There is so much revealed in these documents that it is astonishing.  Then, armed with the basic information from the documentation, one can begin a discourse with the seeds rooted in how the societies operate.  

Documents worth reading:

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/whatyouknow.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/noble.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/city.html
http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/timeline.cgi
http://www.armageddon.org/general/language.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/houses.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/music/index.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/races.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/senate.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/slavery.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/superstitions.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/tattoos/
http://www.armageddon.org/general/tuluki_rp.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/social_mores.html
http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/

With this information in hand, you can begin to delve further into the complexities that exist.

[novel_hero]

Marko, I appreciated your work on the statements made but I do not appreciate your tone or your air of superiority. I thought I had made it quite clear that this wasn't some kind of contest, and frankly you strike me as someone who's been trying to browbeat me down from the moment I posted.

I've tried to keep the utmost in politeness here and never said a word about who was "right" or "wrong" and I don't think it's your call to make either. Everyone is going to have their own perspective and that's what makes it a roleplaying game. The point is to build on each other, not bash each other down.

If you could knock it off, please, and help rather than try to make me look bad, it'd be alright. But if you're just going to lord yourself around and claim that your logic is infallible (which it most certainly is not), then you're not welcome to add to my ideas anymore. I repeat: This isn't some kind of contest, I clearly stated from the very beginning that these were opinions gathered by a player. As are your ideas -- opinions. You are not the one to set this information into stone. As far as I've seen you are not an imm and you do not know everything about the game, so you are just as prone to being wrong as I am, nor have you been convincing.

That said, anyone who wants to HELP may post here, and if you disagree, for crying out loud do it like an adult.

[Armaddict]

I thought Marko's posts were informative and fine.

You have the same problem I have on here, which is I often take things a little too personally.

However...his posts were not brow beating in the least.  He found flaws, and he explained them.

Many people have, but you're ignoring them.

[jhunter]

If you could knock it off, please, and help rather than try to make me look bad, it'd be alright.

It seems to me that he is trying to help and you're not accepting it.

[amoeba]

I thought Marko's posts were informative and fine.

You have the same problem I have on here, which is I often take things a little too personally.

However...his posts were not brow beating in the least.  He found flaws, and he explained them.

Many people have, but you're ignoring them.

I am going to say something on this because  I am kind of impartial here.  Both post were pretty much greek to me since I've never played in that portion of the game.

Novel_hero, you are being a bit too sensitive to the percived tone. I'd ignore the tone and focus on the words.  I went back and reread the posts a few times. Some interesting points were made on both sides. As to the "correctness" of the posts as it relates to the gameworld, Marko being a legend status lends a bit more credence, but I have no point of reference to judge on this.

Marko, your posts, while not inflammitory, were rather agressive.  While the style works well in a political arena or in a structured debate, it can come across as rather forceful.   Mainly it is the liberal peppering of key phrases and words. It is phases such as "Now this is just silly.", and words such as "prepoterous" that come across as belittling.   If your intent was to make the argument look foolish and in turn do the same to the poster, then you did quite well.   In all fairness though it is quite diffucult to decimate a persons post without causing some collateral danage to that persons ego.

[/soapbox]

[Jherlen]

I thought marko's posts were pretty well-grounded in logic and drawn from the IC environment. If he came off with an air of superiority it's because he knew what we was talking about. There were some points in the original post that were based on incorrect assumptions, as he pointed out. I for one enjoyed reading his explinations.