the way of the warrior

[Anonymous]

In posting this, I was hoping to garner a few favorable suggestions from the playerbase on how to create, stabilize, evolve and finally maintain a good, solid warrior persona. For instance, finding initial work to provide a trinkle of 'sids, the learning of vital skills alone and without guidance, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. Suggestions?

[Akaramu]

For instance, finding initial work to provide a trinkle of 'sids, the learning of vital skills alone and without guidance,

To be honest, I believe learning combat skills alone and without guidance is impossible in Zalanthas, as it realistically should be. Being successful as an independant is difficult for non-combat classes, especially for a fairly new player, and probably impossible for a warrior type who fits into the 'buff guy who swings weapons' stereotype. It is doable for a ranger, if they act like a desert stalker as opposed to being a warrior with a bow. But this likely requires some experience with the game as well.

This means that some new warrior players just go out into the wild and decide to 'hunt' to boost their combat skills. I find this rather problematic if this concept of 'lets go out and attack stuff, I'll probably die but I dont care' is not deeply enrooted and justified by the PC's personality and background. It also isnt a very good way to get karma.

Dont be the X-th warrior twink following this concept for the sole purpose of getting skills up without guidance. Besides, it is almost guaranteed to lead to a very short life, something any sane PC would be aware of.

If you are never able to train with another person, or have a teacher to show you various attack and defense styles, how could you realistically improve? Slashing at dummies will only get you so far.

Now, here's some suggestions:

If you dont enjoy absolutely needing a teacher to survive after entering the game with a new warrior PC, I would suggest that you play a different kind of role that could turn out to be a decent warrior over time. For example, you could be a Tuluki bard who spends his time socializing and earning money and favors by making use of his good ears... and who sometimes, as a hobby, likes to practice combat moves by himself. If you are under no immediate survival pressure, chances are you would meet a person willing to give you a few tips and improve as a warrior without necessarily joining a clan. Someone you enjoy interacting with, and who doesnt just place you within some strict, mind-numbing schedule.

There are other potentially fun ideas you could build a PC with.

However, this requires patience. It would not work out so well if being a buff warrior as soon as possible was the main goal of the character concept.

Alternatively, your PC could try and build up their own little combat school, find others to join in, and earn money by giving other people lessons. Even as a newbie warrior it is probably safe to assume that your combat skills are higher than those of another class who has never codedly practiced before. You'd start as a newbie teacher, but likely improve your own skills along the way, especially if you could get some able buddy to join in.

Such a small organization would not need to be a coded clan, or a clan at all. Just a band of people, with rumor and social links finding new students and allies for you. However, this concept requires a fair amount of patience and willingness to advance in small steps, as well. And you'd want to inform the immortals about your plan, even if it is not likely that you are going to need staff support.

Also, keep in mind that if your school was situated within a city, the crim code could easily spoil your efforts if you dont chose the sparring location very carefully. You could ask IC about a room or building where the law would allow you to teach. Or try and make the law give you permission.  :wink:

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much for your reply, Akaramu. You've offered me some very valuable insights into the making of a competent warrior.

[moab]

Join the Byn for an IC year or two to learn how to fight, ride and survive in the wastes.  That's the best way, IMO.

[Bestatte]

I have little knowledge of "hunting" in the south, butin the north I can definitely see a "warrior type" out working on combat maneuvers. I can see a perfectly valid reason: Even warriors need to eat. And if a warrior doesn't have a steady income, he would probably do what most people do when they're unemployed: kill their own supper.

You're still not a "hunter" - it's not your job, it's not your calling in life. It's just something necessary for survival while you're looking for work as that awesome uber guard. And WHILE you're out there trying to kill that little gimpka rat for the tasty morsel you'll get if you manage to succeed, you are honing your skills. Learning how to duck from its nips, learning the best technique and movements to get the damned critter dead with the least amount of effort, so you don't spend more calories trying to kill it than the meat will provide.

Warriors are definitely not meant to be hunters, but even a hungry merchant should feel that *attempting* to kill their own supper is acceptable behavior. Hungry people will do whatever it takes to survive, and sometimes that means leaving the city to find a piece of meat.

[moab]

Besteatte reminded me of a point that is worth making - warrior styles in the south and north (most important first, natch..) differ dramatically.

I certainly would recommend viewing the web docs on fighting styles:
http://www.armageddon.org/general/fightingstyles.html
(note: googling for ginka+fighting styles = first hit right doc! WOOT!)

Working with those documents you will be well on your way to developing a persona and style that is unique to your character and is marked by his or her background.

[Akaramu]

The Byn isnt for everyone, especially if it happens to only have a few PCs scattered around different timezones in it. I had both the most enjoyable and the most boring experiences with the Byn, with different PCs. If my first experience had been similar to my second, I would probably have given up on the game.

I think he was more interested in an 'independant' view on warriors.

[moab]

The Byn isnt for everyone, especially if it happens to only have a few PCs scattered around different timezones in it. I had both the most enjoyable and the most boring experiences with the Byn, with different PCs. If my first experience had been similar to my second, I would probably have given up on the game.

I think he was more interested in an 'independant' view on warriors.

Welp, all clans (except perhaps the amazing Kuraci) have this problem from time to time.  The last time I actually played a Borsail I was bored out of my mind - now it's rocking.

I was addressing the truth of the post that stated it is hard to get to be a good indy warrior.  Since the Byn offers membership without life commitments (which is the way more things should be) and is in the business of training warriors and those that stick with it can fight.  There is no doubt about that.

[Bestatte]

You know, I've been thinking (don't you hate when I do that?)...

The term "warrior" is such a...wrong thing to use in Armageddon. Armageddon, from an in-character perspective, doesn't -have- warriors. Here's what they have:

Soldiers
Mercenaries (both employed by an organization and independent)
Hunter-gatherers
Rabble-rousers
Criminals

All of these types of people use *primarily* combat skills to survive. Hunter-gatherers would typically use the ranger skillset, but all the others can (and would) make good use of the warrior skillset.

Warrior is just that - a skillset. It isn't a vocation in the world of Zalanthas. A "warrior" by definition is someone who wars, for a living. We just don't have enough wars to justify that, so it's pointless to even consider "being" a warrior.

So okay, warriors aren't something people "are" in Zalanthas. It's just a particular set of skills they can use, to do something. I think it's easier to flesh out a character, and his function in the world, if you concentrate more on what that character's vocation is. What his calling is. Is he the criminal type who likes beating people senseless for a pocket full of kryptonite? Or maybe he's just a thug-for-hire...

Maybe he's just some poor dumb schmuck with a powerful left hook, who wants to be left alone and live to see tomorrow, with no real direction to work in one capacity or another, and will take whatever job comes along.

So in summary, I don't think there really can be a "way of the warrior," because warriors don't really exist as we see them in movies and fantasy literature. Instead, we have the way of the criminal, the way of the soldier..

and soldiers aren't independent. Soldiers fight on *someone's* behalf, whether it is a city's government, or a merchant house, or an independent group conspiring to overthrow a government.. Criminals can certainly be independent, as can mercenaries. But not many people will hire a single mercenary to guard their wagon from point A to point B..because there's safety in numbers and it's usually worth the extra sids to hire a band of mercenaries.

Rabblerousers, the usual low-life deserving poor citizens who grumble in back corners about how life sucks and how much they wish they could -do- something about it, while beating the crap out of each other to vent their frustrations...even they are an organization to some extent..because misery loves company and they're damned good at stirring up shit as a group.

So if you want a *defined* role in society, where you can make use of your coded skills, a "place" in the world where your character can proclaim, "I am THIS!" then a clan is the best route to take. Independent unofficial clan or official clan, doesn't matter which.

If you would rather have your character be just himself, not a mover or shaker, just an ordinary Joe moving through life hoping to see tomorrow and taking whatever comes his way, then independent unclanned is your best bet - though it is going to be much harder than if your character has direction from a group.

[Akaramu]

Welp, all clans (except perhaps the amazing Kuraci) have this problem from time to time.  The last time I actually played a Borsail I was bored out of my mind - now it's rocking.

The Byn is more restrictive in its rules than any other clan I know of. No everyone enjoys being -forced- to solo roleplay in a room for soandso many days of the week, and only being able to take part in a fun social interaction in a tavern for 15 minutes before they need to head back to solo rp. This is the extreme case of course, the Byn is great with several other PCs who play at the same time. But I wouldnt recommend a new player to take the risk unless they KNOW they will have PCs to interact with.

[LoD]

Akaramu.

I played out a role exactly as your describe for about 2 RL years.  And the thing that you have to consider is what your character would be willing to do in order to achieve his/her goal.  Here are a few questions to ask and help guide yourself though the thought process:

1. How have I been trained previous to making my character?

It wasn't much, because your skill set does not support an "ass kicking" background.  I almost always select a background that provides a reason for his skill set and skill level.

2. Is my desire to have a 'kickass' warrior character an OOC or IC goal?

Meaning, am -I- wanting to have a badass fighter, or does my character want to be badass?  The two don't always have to be the same.  The difference is that people who want to be badass OOCly are the ones that do nothing but slaughter gith and entire zones of animals.  People who ICly want to be badass move through logical and progressive steps toward accomplishing that goal.

3. Are you willing to take pay the price for your ability?

Power does not, and should not, come easily.  Your ability to beat the living tar out of things is going to come and no small cost to your personal time, levels of boredom, patience, responsibility and self policing.  It's easy to want to go hunt scrab, gith and beetles when you're still relatively new, but those actions have a high level of danger for a low payoff.

4. Do you have the patience?

As others have noted, learning to be a true and competent fighter doesn't come from simply fighting animals in the grasslands day in and day out.  It comes with intense study of fighting, theory, tactics, mental toughness, focus, etc...  These are ALL things a character will want to practice in pursuing something of an academic and functional understanding of fighting.

The bottom line is that you have a long road ahead of you, and it's full of choices you have to make that will keep you alive or get you killed.  If you truly want to take a realistic approach to it, then I highly suggest you join one of these clans, regardless of the play times, and work on your goal with a strong IC foundation.  When you're doing solo-RP, maybe throw some practice in there for yourself.  Do some mental exercises.  There are lots of ways to cut the boredom AND continue your journey toward being an uber warrior of the world.

-LoD

[Akaramu]

LoD,

I'm not the one looking for advice on warrior play. Anonymous kank is. I have never played a warrior and dont think I ever will.  :wink:

Good points though. Only directed at the wrong person.

[Anonymous]

Valid points, all. I especially enjoyed LoD's post (and bullet points are always fun anyway   ), and it offered insights into many IC/OOC variables I hadn't even thought to factor into the equation of "making" a warrior.

I do want to add special emphasis to the fact that it is not, nor was it ever, my intention to create or roleplay a "badass warrior type". I think Bestatte perfectly envisioned my goal when she said:

Maybe he's just some poor dumb schmuck with a powerful left hook, who wants to be left alone and live to see tomorrow, with no real direction to work in one capacity or another, and will take whatever job comes along.

However I do tend to disagree with your analysis of the warrior himself, Bestatte. Granted, my knowledge of the IG dynamics of playing a specific role in context to the harshness of Zalanthas is somewhat limited at this point, but I do believe that fighting itself can most definitely become a goal and even a vocational sort of thing. Look at the desert Gith for example; they've made a veritable legacy of doing just that, as well as many other groups and cultures throughout the world.

Consider this, all points on higher purposes aside: The main goal for virtually every living being on Zalanthas is simply to survive, and given what tools are available, does it seem such a stretch that a physically powerful individual(namely, a warrior type) might expound on certain aspects of fighting and interpret them into ethics and even something akin to a moral code? Therefore, by my logic at least, not only can it become a vocation, but something which borders closely on an actual calling. Furthermore, I don't see how labeling someone who deals in weapons and warfare a "warrior" as opposed to calling them a fighter really changes the dynamic much. That's really just a matter of symantics, isn't it? The goal is still the same for everyone, fighter or no: to survive.


Anyhow, on to another point:

Joining a clan. Based on my character's history, which strictly defines him as a loner and someone who does not readily accept the company of others, joining with a clan for the matter of survival just doesn't seem conceptually sound. Regardless of whether or not it means the difference between life and death. Joining a clan or taking up with any particular group is just not something the character would do under most circumstances. That is why I made the differentiation in my first post.

I was hoping to gather suggestions from people "in the know" on how someone with a particular skillset might survive alone in the world. And thanks to all these great entries, I think that has been accomplished. Thanks again all!

[Agent_137 (2L2L)]

On the "To byn or not to byn" question, there's an easy answer:

Do you often see byn around during your regular play hours?

there's no question, playing in the byn at a time that is devoid of PCs is boring as hell. But the Byn always has a few PCs in it, at the very least. The trick would be making sure those few PCs share similar play times with you. And that's easy to figure out. Just play at your normal times, look for brown abas, and try to way the sergeant. (you can normally find his name on the IG boards found in the taverns.) If you see some PC brown abas, or can contact that sergeant pretty often during your play time, then feel confident that you will see many PCs during your time with the Byn. If it takes you week of playing at your regular times just to get ahold of the sergeant or ever see a brown aba, you might want to see what other job options are out there.

Of course, this is an awful lot of OOC issues that are having a bearing on how your character acts ICly. You have to be very carefuly.

And for the record, joining the Byn is one of the best ideas for warrior types ICly. OOCly it's only a bad if there's never any other Bynners around.

[Swordsman]

Anonymous Kank: What you really seem to be asking is how to develop a 'lone wolf' warrior-type, while bearing in mind both the IC and OOC considerations (not least of which being possibility of death in the wastes).

If you want to go it alone right from the beginning, only relying on employers to support you minimally, I'd say it's going to be hard to near impossible to do. IMO, anyone thinking of going this way (more or less alone right from the beginning) is just going to have to swallow the bitter pill that this isn't going to be possible (or at least will take a lot of patience and possibly a lot of PCs before getting one to survive). I think that what others have suggested about joining a clan initially (e.g., T'zai Byn or a House) is much more sensible both ICly and OOCly. Get your (PC's) feet set firmly on the ground before going it alone, would be my advice.

Another thing to think about: which guild to play? Probably many people would say warrior, and a fair few would say ranger. IMO, if you're serious about the lone wolf concept, ranger would be the way to go ... -the- guild for surviving out in the wastes.

Good luck!

Swordsman

[Bogre]

You can make it as a lone warrior.  It's difficult, but not impossible to scrape out a living if you're not a criminal. (Although staying -alive- as a law-abiding citizen is much easier). So, criminals notwithstanding, there are all sorts of opportunities you can try as a burly guy who knows how to swing a sword who can't stand other people who can. I'm just gonna list some possibilities you can try for.

-You can hire yourself out as a bodyguard to merchants or whatnot who travel.
-Clans will send out offers for temporary work, like the Byn hiring on extra bodies to swarm a monstrous magicker.
-Swords to Plowshares, or 'do menial labor'. Just cause your guy has a bigassed sword doesn't mean he has to use it. And there is a -lot- of menial labor out there.
-Sign up for arena combat.
-Be a bounty hunter, seek out those nasty less-than-nice people and take them down.
-Convince someone that you've got talent, and bask in their sid-flow in trying to make you something, and then suffer through the periods that they make you speak to other people, and then after you've got enough sid, sell yourself as a freelance warrior. (Ducking those dastardly freelance assassins).