Noble and Templar percentage within population

[Gaare]

There is a post about population of the known world here...

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1002

I wonder the percentage of nobles and templars in city-states.. I have some idea about them but far from precise.

Any guess, idea ... or a post location that can have the information about the distribution of the population within castes?

[wizturbo]

I don't know Tuluk very well, but it mimics Allanak pretty closely I'd imagine, so here's my "scoop".

There are 9 noble families, with each family member likely living far beyond the average lifespan of the average commoner, so that makes 9 BIG families.

Blood relations is not the only requirement for nobility however.  You must be a product of a noble marriage, which likely splits the "family" in half in terms of who's noble and who bastard noble.  So I'd say each family likely has around 50-75 actual nobles, and likely 50 bastard nobles.  Multiple that times 9, and you've got a noble population of somewhere around 450-675 people.  With a population of 1,000,000, that puts those people as the top 0.5%, with likely another .5% beneath them of bastard nobles.  

As for Templars, which would be just above the nobility, I've really no idea.  I'd guess there are maybe 3 black robes, 20 red robes, and then maybe....100 blue robes at any given time?  No way of really telling the virtual population, but it would have to be substantial because these guys are the ruling hands of Allanak.

[Larrath]

My personal estimate is that there are between one thousand to two thousand nobles in Allanak, Tuluk having a little less.  The reasoning for this is that Allanak has been around for a while, and that I assume that most married noblewomen will give birth to at least three.  With the very low sickness rate, the bodyguards and the overall longevity, nobles probably get to reproduce pretty freely.
Bastard nobles I don't really see more than three hundred of running around.  Concubines are common, but most of them don't get to give birth to their employer's children.
As for templars, I think that their overall number would be somewhere between three and five hundred in Allanak, and again less in Tuluk.

These are the numbers that currently make sense to me.

[fearwig]

If you want to use prerevolutionary France as an example, .5-1% is pretty good for nobility, which using the 400k figure from the other thread is what, 2,000-4,000 nobles in Allanak. I would expect a few more templars than what I see from you, Larrath--it seems to me there are a lot of templars out there doing rather mundane things in Allanak (manning the bazaar stable, dishing out water--who knows why they don't have slaves for that?). There are also a hell of a lot of NPC templars in allanak, almost as many as soldiers, I think--but then you could argue that there would be no VNPC templars, since they're too important--thus explaining all the NPCs.

Tuluk would definitely have fewer of each, being that the population of the city itself is a good deal smaller--maybe half?

[Whira's Luck]

I believe there is no such thing as recognized bastard nobility in Tuluk.

http://www.armageddon.org/general/tuluki_rp.html#commoners is very clear in saying:

Nobles do not have relationships with commoners. It is unthinkable, and a monstrous violation of social protocols. Children of such alliances often become outcasts and vagabonds and their noble parent is severely reprimanded.

Such relationships are considered a social fax paus. The caste system in Tuluk has been in place for years and is a fundamental part of Tuluki society and culture. Such relationships are liabilities for the House. If word were to get out, it would damage not only the noble's reputation, which is bad in itself, but it would also damage the House's reputation.

Thus we can assume that any noble/commoner 'mistakes' are treated as commoners, and very poorly at that. Likely any bastard of a noble may not even be aware of his lineage or may not profess it, because unlike in Allanak, it would be considered insulting to the noble house and is a mark of shame, not honor.

[Larrath]

I'd assume that a commoner bearing a noble's child would simply die before she could give birth.

Now, about the templars - The huge majority of all templars is noble, but not all nobles are templars.  I also don't think one of every two nobles would become a templar, either; I doubt most nobles simply have what it takes to go through the training and the day-to-day trouble of being a templar.

Either way, there are undoubtedly virtual templars standing in virtual streets and in virtual offices doing virtual things.  The number of templar NPCs in the cities is what I would expect of the Red Robes (and equivalents) to be, but I suspect that their true number, as well as the Blacks', is already enough to constitute as IC information.

Though there are templars doing menial chores (selling mounts and what-have-you), these are the exception and not the rule.  Most templars work as enforcers of the law and leaders of the Militia.  They do jobs, they aren't just born templars and kept with the robes in case someone needs them to guard some corner somewhere.
So, in conclusion; there aren't as many templars as there are nobles.

[Armaddict]

I recall a certain prominent red-robe being a commoner as a youth, and 'sponsored' for the templarate or some such.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty damn sure.

[wizturbo]

I'd assume that a commoner bearing a noble's child would simply die before she could give birth.

No way.  In Allanak nobles can boink commoner's all they like, so long as they follow proper social ettiquettes, their children are considered "Bastard" nobles.  Bastard nobles often serve as servants to the noble's house, becoming aides and advisors if they show the capacity for such work.

[Naiona]

A child born of a noble/common relationship in Tuluk would be exceedingly rare and a huge mark of shame upon the Chosen it was related to.  A child born of a noble/common relationship in Allanak would be raised as a bastard and likely spend its life serving the house of the noble parent in a privledged position.

As to Templars, the average Allanaki commoner would know that there were enough Blue Robes that they saw them pretty much anywhere inside the city and that White Robes usually had the most menial jobs.  Blue Robes wield a great deal of power granted them by the Highlord and maintain their position in the city through intimidation and fear. They'd know that seeing a Red Robe is rare and that a Red Robe is a powerful man or woman whose very presence is a good reason to tremble without need for any special circumstance.  The very sight of a Black Robe is something that most commoners will never see - and would never want to see out of superstitious fear.

In Tuluk, the size of the templarate is not quite so large, but they have a much friendlier surface relationship with the public.  Jihaens are pretty common and seen doing the kind of jobs that you might see various White and Blue Robes doing in Allanak.  High Jihaens are less common and are seen as great military leaders worthy of respect in the population.  Lirathans are less visible in general and may have smaller numbers, but it is they who handle all the business and political functions of the citystate and most commoners would realize that Jihaens tend to defer to the Lirathans.  An average commoner would probably not really know how many High Jihaens and High Lirathans there are, but they'd know the number was less then twenty.  The ranks of Precenter and Inquisitor would be more legend then reality to most of the population - with a lot of fear, mystery and superstition surrounding the mere titles.

[xX_Cathedral_Xx]

Very well wrote, and thoughtout Naiona. I am very glad that someone has finally decided to take the time and write something for the populace of this board to understand and make judgements upon. Is there any possibility of having this particular peice of writing by you to be archived for further reading? Perhaps, if I dare, to have you write up what would the common populace know about militia, templarate, and nobility throughout each city-state, and outposts such as Luirs and Red Storm.