Reboots more than once a week?

[creeper386]

What's broken is that people rush out to do their selling on Saturday night.  Fix the problem, not the symptom.

Finally, a voice of reason!

The ideas put forth are reasonable, and could be implemented. The question is, should they have to be coded? Can't this simple problem be fixed by people just hunting/crafting/jacking all the spawn-items less?

Well, that'd fix the problem of people selling everything saturday's and what not, and would be an improvement, but it's most likely going to take more staff time just to support something like that then to code something else.

Also, improvements to the code are good. Yes, RP is alot of things. But we still have code. We should have the best of code to go with the best of RP.

Otherwise, why make any code changes at all? Lets just go back to stock diku, because that wasn't really broken, so why did they fix it in the first place?

Want more players ... Having articles written about the MUD helps that. If you have some outstanding code, you can get into online mags as well as other ones. With little effort beyond okaying it from the staff. All they have to do is make an awesome MUD alittle better.

Creeper

[Praetorian]

Heres a wild and wacky idea... leave the 5 object limit in shops just like it is.  However, tweak it so that merchant class pc's are able to sell beyond that limit.  If you are a hunter and want to sell those two extra duskhorn pelts then find a merchant, and sell them to them.  The merchant, knowing that he will be able to 'talk the other trader into doing business' so to speak will likely give you a somewhat fair price because they -know- they will be able to sell it.
This gives everyone a reason to go find merchant PCs to buy their goods when necessary, and gives merchant players a WHOLE new realm of importance in the game - as it should be.

[Maybe42or54]

I like, also expand the past five limit to Con artists, not just merchants alone.

[Anonymous]

Wild and wacky is right on the ball with describing that idea.

I'm against it. Merchants already can make alot more money then anyone else with bargaining. Merchants tend to be the ones that sell the craftable stuff the the stores anyways, so they would make even more money there.

If a hunter or some one is smart, they would probably find someplace or someone to sell their stuff to as it is. Instead of they themselves selling it. I know a merchant could ussually make the hunter a few extra coins and still make a profit himself.

I personal am more for improving the code, not just fixing the problem of people selling items in mass. Good code that is more realistic and less basic stock sell code would be nice, and make things look alot prettier from an OOC stand point.

Creeper

[creeper386]

Just so everyone knows. That really was me.


Creeper

[fearwig]

So...instead of relying completely on shops and find a PC to sell stuff to?

Why 'fix' this when it's not truly broken?

What's broken is that people rush out to do their selling on Saturday night.  Fix the problem, not the symptom.

Oh, yeah, and reboots aren't the problem either...and no matter how many arguments you come up with for why we shouldn't have Saturday down time, it'll still happen.

Is this post produced by some kind of drug-fueled frenzy? Because I'm having a lot of trouble following your little half-baked rants, here.

You say "Fix the problem, not the symptom!"  The -symptom- is that people mass-sell on saturday nights, yes? We agree, then. The problem is the merchant lists evaporate with reboots. What you are actually saying is, "Fix the symptom, not the problem!". You know what the word "symptom" means, yes?

As for wanting to get rid of Saturday downtimes, I think you may very well be in your own little world here, because NO ONE IN THIS THREAD has actually mentioned that. *shakes his head* I'm baffled, really.

I should probably just have ignored this post, being that it is really just self-contradictory, but I don't like to see a good thread get derailed by this kind of crap.


As for the rest of the thread, I've got to agree with Creeper. Suggesting different item sale limits is really just a band-aid on a flesh wound. The suggested fixes were good, no need to make it even more stupid and artificial. Derailment is bad. Bad!

[fearwig]

And it's STILL not horribly unrealistic, for a merchant to not buy alot of stuff from one person. They only have so much coin. Maybe they want to hold out for that nice duskhorn skin instead of buying all your fifty seven dirty 'rinthi rat skins. Maybe there is a chance someone might bring in BETTER quality dirty 'rinthi rat skins then your character. So they want to hold out. OR just maybe they want to see ... IF THEY CAN SELL SO MANY DIRTY 'RINTHI RAT SKINS??? I mean ... I know a merchant doesn't want to buy even a few of something, let alone a ton of something, if he's not sure if he can move it.

Creeper

Woah, okay, following you up to here, going good. Let's talk about this though.

Generally, a merchant knows whether he can unload the goods he buys. Sometimes it takes longer, sometimes it doesn't. Generally, if he's getting a fantastic price, however, he doesn't mind the wait. That's essentially how sales works.

Now, a max item limit could be produced based on that item's worth! In fact, that's basically what I've already suggested. But you've also got the simple fact that those rat skins are dirt cheap, and sell, in time. Zalanthas is a low-end-based economic world... people want cheap and effective. Players don't always represent that, of course (and nor does the code, always).

I pefer the absolute, basic system that doesn't take that into account though. The merchant will buy more, sure, just not for nearly as much. In effect, he'll buy one skin for 20 sid, or all ten for 100, based on his progressively lowering offers. It's a good system, I say. Eventually, sure, a merchant will have too many and he'll be offering 1 or 2 sid per skin, or maybe code will determine he doesn't want to waste any more storage with that item. Either way, that's when you stop selling, you old feck! You're not getting anything from it.

[Forest Junkie]

Hey homie. Calm down.

[fearwig]

I will cut you! *brandishes a spoon*

[Trenidor]

Ok and while we're at it, let's make a channel where people can talk ooc to everyone in the whole world, that way we can be like:

"Hey, I need someone to take this mek down anyone online want to do it?"

and we'll all benifit because we're doing an ooc thing to RP more.

And then we can show our percentage levels and exp of skills.
And add in those pink bunnies and a start up field so we all practice our skills before we get to play

And then, we can make another channel for merchants only:

"Hey, I'm auctioning this kank shit in mint condition, lets start the bids at 10 sid a clump"

That would help to get rid of those items we can't sell to NPCs

/sarcasm

[spawnloser]

The fact that merchant lists dissappear is realistic in that merchants will sell things to other people.  There will be a demand for something even if there is no PC demand.  Forcing only PC to PC sales, which any suggestion here would eventually do for some things would make some things which are already fairly difficult even moreso.

From what I understand, when there is a reboot, the shops will reset.  That's just the way it is.  It would probably take a fair amount of work to fix the hundreds of shops in the game to fix this, including making every room that contains a shop to be changed to a different zone so that it can be a save room, so that the merchants will save with their current inventories (and thus items available for sale).

If the idea for reducing price as the market floods, eventually there would be no purpose to selling things...and noone'd be buying any of the item for it to be storing up so many, so eventually there would be no purpose to selling these things...etc.

[fearwig]

Look, man, if you're going to reply, read the thread.

First, no, it's not impossible to save merchant lists. That's just the way it's coded. MUDs make a lot of allowances where code is concerned because it's simple and it's text-based. Saving the merchant lists when rebooting is not hard.

Second, the whole problem with 'spam selling' comes from this reboot clearing. It's unrealistic because it happens all at once, on a given day, and everyone rushes to sell their things on that day of the RL week.

This can be fixed by having the merchant lists save and then having them "sell" things on an IC day-to-day basis to VNPCs.
Then you combine that with the other suggestions we've made as to how to gradiate the pricing system. All in all they are pretty simple changes, though a little time-consuming. But I think they're more than worthwhile.


And the results? No spam-selling (which is a stupid concept to begin with that shouldn't have to exist), a market that's realistic and more useful, and reboots that don't harm the game in this way and aren't relied upon. You would still -have- the reboots and downtimes, they just wouldn't have an IC impact, as they shouldn't.

[Cuusardo]

It's highly doubtful that this is going to change anyway, so I really don't see what the point of beating the dead horse is.

[Ix Machina]

Fearwig,

As far as the way the code works: unless you somehow have access to the codebase, it's probably unwise to assume what the code can or cannot do as compared to other muds. Without going into detail, Spawnloser's comment on what it would take to ensure saving lists is correct.

Secondly, is there any way you could tone down the borderline flaming/obnoxiousness of your replies? No one is attacking you or calling you an idiot, they are merely stating why they don't agree with you. It'd be nice if you could show the same level of respect to the posters who disagree with you.

[fearwig]

I'm not asking anyone to take me seriously--in fact I wouldn't recommend it. But if they'd like to, I suppose it's their prerogative to be offended. Beyond that, well, you can be angry about it, but I'm not going to worry myself over "borderline flaming", with all due respect. We're adults, here, aren't we? Or at least competent minors. If you think I've been rude, point it out to me--I don't think I've made any particularly rude comments, save maybe for some that were facetious.

I am somewhat familiar with mud code, and I'd love to be able to speak with more surety on the ability for this idea to work with this mud in particular. I was mostly speaking hypotheticals. I enjoy discussing these sorts of things--I would assume that anyone who bothers to reply does too.

On a similar note, if there's any way you might suggest that one could get into the process of coding or helping to code for Arm without imm status, I'd be more than happy to help. I have looked, but haven't found much on the subject.

It's highly doubtful that this is going to change anyway, so I really don't see what the point of beating the dead horse is.

That's how you get the juice out. Dead horses are where all the action is.

Really, I don't think forums are always meant to actually invoke change, with a few exceptions (usually pointing out oversights, et cetera). If people really didn't want to discuss it, I imagine there wouldn't be replies, and there wouldn't be anything for me to get excited over.

[Adhira]

I think this discussion has been all debated out, and so no one has to worry over borderline flaming, thread locked.