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#31
General Discussion / Re: Community Rules - Standard...
Last post by Riev - March 24, 2024, 08:10:00 PM
Suggestion:

If there is an offense that is a 2nd/3rd strike then the previous offenses taken into account should be listed.



From the whispers I'm getting, and I am VERY removed from the game as it stands right now, people are getting explanations to bans/removals/timeouts but only for the single offense. It does not appear that the previous warnings that are being taken into account are being listed.

Nobody likes being banned, even if they're knowingly breaking the rules. But worse would be getting a long-term ban or kick from the Discord entirely with "You told Marshall he was behaving like a petulant child" without referencing the 2 other times I said you were a poo poo head. Because then I feel like "that one time I did something, I got a ban."
#32
General Discussion / Re: Community Rules - Standard...
Last post by MarshallDFX - March 24, 2024, 07:37:40 PM
Radical opinion... I believe that when people call somebody stupid, or start sniping, they know they're breaking the community rules. They do it anyways because they want to, they find it engaging, and the punishment isn't going to be very serious. I believe this because I'm also this person, to some extent.

In revising the approach to moderation for seasons, the upshot is holding people to a higher standard and making consequences actually noticeable.

On your questions..

Quote from: Riev on March 23, 2024, 09:54:46 PMoutright site ban for offenses without warnings

I'm not aware of any bans that didn't have a previous "warning shot" but I expect opinons will differ what constitutes a warning for a particular thing (eg how long ago was it)

Quote from: Riev on March 23, 2024, 09:54:46 PMwhat are the average punishments like

since 26 feb

On the GDB

7 GDB "warnings" with points - three of which were issued by three mods to one person which effectively creates a nine day "no posting" timeout.

two 24 hour GDB bans - which were because two warnings were ignored and trying to argue it out in public.

two 30-day discord bans, both of which were related to personal attacks on one or more people that had a previous mute/short term ban

On Discord

asked a couple people to stop via discord for complaining about other players and complaining about the complaining

four 24-hour discord "timeouts" over rudeness

two 14-day discord bans, one relating to a previous timeout and request to stop, another because of repeated rude engagement

Quote from: Riev on March 24, 2024, 04:15:55 PMSo, not to put too fine a point on it but... the punishments then are subjective depending also on how the mod team feels?

There will always be exceptions to the rules but generally increased the severity and so far the tools are 24 hour mute -> 30 day ban. 
#33
General Discussion / Re: Penalty to sorcerers and s...
Last post by Lizzie - March 24, 2024, 04:52:10 PM
I actually agree with Riev more often than I disagree (yass gurrl), I just don't advertise it because Riev needs to protect his rep or some such nonsense.

But yes, about the guild vs. subguild situation. This is true in every game I've played, all of which had main and sub guilds/classes/skillsets (whatever you want to call them).  The main was "what your character is designed for, primarily" while the sub was "hobbies, interests, side-talents" to give your main more depth and personality.

That's the whole point of -having- a main and a sub. If not, then just do away with mains entirely, and let people pick one sub from each category: combat, non-combat, and utility.

Or, ditch classes/subs altogether and shift completely into a template-based points system.

Magick has never been intended to be a side-gig. Either you're a mage, or you're not a mage.
#34
General Discussion / Re: Penalty to sorcerers and s...
Last post by Riev - March 24, 2024, 04:21:06 PM
I hate to agree with lizzie (haayyy gurl) but I did prefer the main-guild magickers. I had always felt that your "main class" was something you were born to do, while your subclass was to fill out holes and/or to be the things you worked at. For an old quote:

Your main class is Mario
Your Subclass is Joe the Plumber

Both allow you to be able to do the job of a plumber, but in Mario's case? He was born to do it. He is naturally better at it, and will succeed more often. Joe the plumber can make a business out of plumbing but his real talents may lie elsewhere.

Magickers are born with magick in their blood. It is where all their potential lies. You weren't born to be a Plumber, but also happen to be a witch... you were born a with. I know it seems unfair, but in a world where magick is powerful and scary, it always made sense.



To whit: I don't want to play a super powerful sorceror with master parry and stealth skills. I want to play a sorceror with enough survivability and utility to be scary and enact plots. Unfortunately, many of our players want to play "I can kill you without risk".

A semi-recent sorceror went out of their way to NOT kill people, and yet some players hated how powerful they were because they "could not win". A player who spent months building a reputation, killing very few, in a very hard and iso role was chastised and bemoaned because some people couldn't "win". I don't think code will fix that, only a change in attitude.
#35
General Discussion / Re: Community Rules - Standard...
Last post by Riev - March 24, 2024, 04:15:55 PM
So, not to put too fine a point on it but... the punishments then are subjective depending also on how the mod team feels?

I (obviously) have a distrust of players and staff based on history. The player mod team has been fair to me before, and yet seemingly unfair to others.

I would hope that if a ban is initiated, it is more than "You told CirclelessBard that she's being stupid" and more of a "you've been warned about this before, and this is not okay".

I say this because, especially, saying someone is being stupid and that they are stupid may be a lexicographical idiosyncrasy and we're struggling with trust as it is.
#36
General Discussion / Re: Penalty to sorcerers and s...
Last post by RheaGhe - March 24, 2024, 02:26:24 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on March 24, 2024, 02:10:55 PMFor me, it's the idea that a full-guild mage is relegated to either
1) being gemmed
2) being a secret ungemmed city mage with a city-centric subguild that automatically comes with the listen skill
3) picking a wilderness-centric subguild that automatically comes with direction sense.

Listen for secret city-based is important, if you want a good shot at remaining a secret mage based in the city.
Direction sense for any mage who is based outside in the wilderness is a no-brainer. With very few exceptions, most mages can't really function without it, outside cities.

So rather than further limit the subguild options, I say just give all full-guild elemental mages a low-cap of those skills right out of chargen. They can still select subguild with higher caps of those skills if they want. But they would have a greater variety of options for subguilds if they don't mind not "getting good" at those particular skills.

So first off.

I love the idea to add a few small utility skills to fit the classes.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to happen as far as I know.

That said, from what I read about the Karma changes, and from the discussions I observed at the time. The subguilds were going to be gradually phased out, and the gemmed restrictions on full guilds with them.
#37
General Discussion / Re: Penalty to sorcerers and s...
Last post by Lizzie - March 24, 2024, 02:10:55 PM
For me, it's the idea that a full-guild mage is relegated to either
1) being gemmed
2) being a secret ungemmed city mage with a city-centric subguild that automatically comes with the listen skill
3) picking a wilderness-centric subguild that automatically comes with direction sense.

Listen for secret city-based is important, if you want a good shot at remaining a secret mage based in the city.
Direction sense for any mage who is based outside in the wilderness is a no-brainer. With very few exceptions, most mages can't really function without it, outside cities.

So rather than further limit the subguild options, I say just give all full-guild elemental mages a low-cap of those skills right out of chargen. They can still select subguild with higher caps of those skills if they want. But they would have a greater variety of options for subguilds if they don't mind not "getting good" at those particular skills.
#38
General Discussion / Re: Community Rules - Standard...
Last post by CirclelessBard - March 24, 2024, 01:02:39 PM
How we're approaching moderation is detailed here: https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,60275.msg1102278.html#msg1102278

A quick overview of moderation actions is: we're using 1-day timeouts, 30-day bans and permanent bans. On the GDB, we do send a reason message out along with these actions, and the ban reason should also be displayed if you try to access the GDB while banned. On Discord, carl-bot sends you a message if you are timed out or banned, with a reason message. The reason message is written by a mod, and will state the rule broken and generally summarize how it was broken, either with a quote or just describing the person's behavior to them. In addition to all of that, we edit out the rule-breaking material in question, with a log kept of what was removed, for auditing reasons.

To answer your question "If I disagree with someone on the boards, and I am heated about it ... will my post be moderated?" The answer to that is: probably. People will have different viewpoints, and may believe in those viewpoints very strongly. What we don't need or want is toxicity. There is absolutely no reason to lob a personal attack at another person, or passive-aggressively air player complaints about other players in public. There isn't really a fine line between this type of behavior and reasoned debate; there's a wide gulf.

So what happens if a community member engages in such behavior? I think the mod team has historically tried to tell the difference between a person having a bad day or momentary lapse in judgment, vs. a person who persistently acts in a toxic way towards certain members of the community or the community as a whole. We're going to apply a lighter touch to instances of uncharacteristically bad behavior, but there is still going to be a response all the same. I don't think anyone on the mod team thinks that any of the rules are a "big ask", but we do understand the difference between the occasional mistake and patterns of behavior.
#39
General Discussion / Re: Penalty to sorcerers and s...
Last post by Dresan - March 24, 2024, 09:52:08 AM
Generally speaking i have no issue with powerful mage/sorcerer characters but that is not what people are asking for. What people want to play is magic warriors with stealth, ride and wilderness skills with zero down side or limitations.

Its not that a mages dont have powerful abilities to keep them safe. Its just that master parry is more convinient and does not have any of the downsides that come with magick upkeep or glowing like christmas trees in the night, right? I also think this is what made full mage classes more balanced. They actually had to rely on magic to achieve anything, instead of hust buffing already strong mudane skills.

I do believe the next step will be further nerfing of mage subguilds followed by the eventual removal the of subguild mages with the exception of touched classes. This of course comes with the reintroduction of full mage classes again. But if full-mage classes need more powerful spells than they aready have that do stuff like prevent bash or block weapon damage through impressive visible displays of magick prowless i would be very supportive.  8)
#40
General Discussion / Community Rules - Standards of...
Last post by Riev - March 23, 2024, 09:54:46 PM
I was just wondering, since we're in the break between Game Seasons ... we have a set standard of community rules. I believe these are https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,51856.0.html


I know mods will not post individual breaches, but what are the average punishments like? The last post on the subject appears to have been https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,51856.msg1090105.html#msg1090105

Lately. I have heard whisperings of not using a point or mute system and instead returning to the outright site ban for offenses without warnings. If I disagree with someone on the boards, and I am heated about it ... will my post be moderated? Will I get a warning? A mute? Do I get an outright month long site ban with something as woefully non-descript as "Rule 1 break"