September 30, 2023 (Saturday)

Halaster
- Fixed a bug with an Elkros spell

Zorkbob the Inhaler
- Various backend bug fixes

Ataraxis
- Fixes to our MSSP implementation

Quote from: Roon on September 29, 2023, 02:07:32 PMThere is no logical argument for the notion that climbing equipment should not work if you don't have the skill. They're leather straps and spiked soles. A neanderthal could work it out. Anyone who posits the view that prior familiarity with the arcane techniques of climbing should be required in order to work out how to use a harness, rope and climbing boots is, to put it mildly, an idiot who's talking out of their bottom half. It's a really stupid concept that makes no sense.

...

Climbing without the climb skill is so prohibitively hard that it's plainly stupid and unrealistic. Either it should be a skill that anyone can learn, like ride, as OP suggested; or climbing equipment should work properly, as basic logic dictates it would. We're not talking about mech suits here. We're talking about leather straps and tapering bits of bone. There is no logical basis for the idea that anyone could be unable to grasp how these work. That's just too dumb to accept. It makes zero sense at all.

there's rope anyone can use, but strapped or worn climbing equipment does require skill to use.

if one doesn't know how to climb, where did the knowledge of using climbing equipment properly come from?

strapping on shoes with cleats doesn't build the latissimus muscle or forearm flexors.

the knowledge of figuring out "how to use climbing equipment" and the ability to do so is represented in code by the skill.

most soldiers probably aren't climbing over the shield wall on a daily basis.

they may be playing on jungle gyms in a room but that's just emoting - not using the coded skill to travel huge distances outdoors or climb up multiple stories of buildings in a city.

Yeah Mansa I was going to say that too about the ropes, but I couldn't be bothered. Even though I'm doing it now, kinda, after you did it. So here we are. Love you

Just to clarify some information:

Climbing ropes that you "Hold/Wield" will give you bonuses to climb.  This works with everyone.  The game echo even states, "Using <item>, you climb <direction>".

However, if you have climbing boots, climbing gloves, wearing a climbing harness on your waist, climbing helmet, or wearing any other +climb item, it will not give you any benefit if you don't have climb in your skill list.

(This is the same with sunslits, which explicitly state will give you a bonus to direction sense, even if you don't have it on your skill list.)

I'm going to take a picture of the piece of playground equipment that my 4 year old son CLIMBS, and he's a Fighter class.

Eh, I don't get it.

Falls are also a leading cause of injury related death, IRL. This is because people think climbing is way easier than it actually is, and you only need to mess up once. Falling off ladders, scaffolding, down the stairs, stuff that was meant for climbing. Folks fall off of it and die, all the time... not to turn this into a OSHA lecture 

IG, you can easily climb one room without the climb skill, it just takes more stamina and a little more time. To me, that is a very common sense reflection of being less proficient at climbing. You can even, fairly easily, climb two rooms! Going down more than one room is tricky without risking some HP, but them's the breaks.

There are tons of Class/Subclass combos that provide climb. You can even get Master climb with a subclass now.

Off-topic, but of the % of PC falling/climbing related deaths IG, I wonder how many occurred while the PC was mounted.

I do think it would make sense that someone with high climbing skill could 'lower rope' to assist with those climbing a room below that don't have the skill, but using ropes is a skill, as intuitive as it may seem.

Told you it was objectively a good idea.

Please make it happen coders. 

Muh immershuns/playability.

Quote from: mansa on September 29, 2023, 02:19:40 PMAlso,

"Falls" are the number 2 killer of players, as per Pathian's data.

An enriching end to a player character. Hurrah.

And they still likely would be, but you can at least try to mitigate it as best you can.

Its not a Front-line soldier who can barely walk up steps trying to climb the Barrier Range. Its Recruit/Runner Same-Ohs out on a patrol and trying to climb one room up to get a better vantage point. And he spends 5000 coins to get a MAYBE 10% better chance of doing so.

This would, likely, require changing nearly EVERY character sheet in the game as that is the core issue of +skill items not even working.

Also,

"Falls" are the number 2 killer of players, as per Pathian's data.