As far as I can see, alcohol is an RP prop that replenishes thirst and gives penalties to your skills. I propose the following:
Getting a buzz from alcohol should give bonuses to ranged combat and haggling rolls, as your hands are steadied and you feel more confident.
Getting drunker than that should give bonuses to flee, escaping subdues, and should significantly reduce fall damage, as a result of you being limp and relaxed.
Alcohol should also reduce stun damage suffered, then have you with lowered max stun after sobering up to represent a hangover.
...Pls no.
This is of course why all archery competitions irl are preceded by getting buzzed.
The two coded beneifts of alcohol are being able to out drink plebs, and resistance against one single spell. (afaik). Irl benefits include liver failure and giving everyone around you +5 charisma.
Alcohol is banned in archery and firearms competitions as a performance enhancing drug, actually.
truth. but if that went into affect, any spice that would slow the heart rate should increase accuracy, as well. and anything that sped it up should probably make you suck at archery, yeah?
That is beyond the scope of this idea.
This is to encourage people to drink, and to encourage them to shenanigans if they have been drinking, rather than waiting at the bar cautiously until their skill penalties sober up quite unlike a drunk person would.
Seems like something like this could be too easily abused. Like, staying sober to steal, and if you are spotted, suddenly drink a few shots and make it easier to get away and such... Also, folks just carrying around some booze so they can drink a little before shooting an arrow. Seems a little odd.
Anyway, I see plenty of folks boozing and spicing now just with the role play model. Seems about right as it is to me. Also, the coded benefits of outdrinking a pleb as mentioned earlier by Inks are not to be scoffed at, drinking games being as popular as they are in some circles.
I would, however, be alright with ale and other weak alcoholic drinks satisfying hunger to some extent, as well as having more than just one drink in a mug. I know plenty of alcoholics in RL that go days without eating. Just drinking beer. That would be enough to encourage some, especially plebs, to drink ale and all that. Maybe it could be mitigated with having hunger return soon after sobriety hits or something. Everyone loves that drunk food. :)
You'd still fall over from drunkenness and receive massive skill penalties.
You don't think it would be stylish as fuck to carry a hip flask to nip on before hipfiring a crossbow?
Drinks already replenish very small amounts of hunger.
Only if after a while it starts incurring slight detriments when you're sober. So you have to start drinking just to perform normally. Have to go on a long detox or see a Viv to stop the withdrawals.
Or maybe the range of drunkenness you need to be in to get benefits is small. Go to far and you're suddenly awful. Not enough and no effect.
Didn't we already discuss this like 8 months ago?
Not a fan of the idea. There doesn't need to be benefits to alcohol. I'd be ok with lowering the penalties slightly though, to encourage more drinking. Right now, you get blackout drunk pretty quick.
It's highly dubious to say that there are physiological advantages to performing anything while intoxicated.
I will concede that here can be a psychological advantage however coding in psychological mechanisms is quite absurd and I don't support it.
https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2013/02/when-alcohol-was-a-performance-enhancing-drug.html
I would like the stumble code to be reduced though. 2 beers in and my guy is stumbling and tripping on his own feet like he chugged pure spirits until his belly was full.
Drink more often, lightweight!
Quote from: Hauwke on August 25, 2019, 04:43:57 PM
I would like the stumble code to be reduced though. 2 beers in and my guy is stumbling and tripping on his own feet like he chugged pure spirits until his belly was full.
All Zalanthan beers are 80 proof.
ITT we mistake the delusions of competence and ability alcohol gives you as granting you actual competence and ability.
This thread is making me want to have a drink.
At best, alcohol should buff your strength while negatively affecting your agility.
It should also buff your HP, except sometimes it doesn't but tells you it does anyway.
It should buff your hp, then reduce your hp by the buffed amount when it wears off, instead of giving you an increase to max hp.
The 'light-headed' buff to ranged combat is to represent the lowered heart rate and calmed nerves of a drink, before it begins to influence your motor ability.
Quote from: Hauwke on August 25, 2019, 04:43:57 PM
I would like the stumble code to be reduced though. 2 beers in and my guy is stumbling and tripping on his own feet like he chugged pure spirits until his belly was full.
Folks, I just want to not fall down every other room. I've fallen down maybe twice in my life while drunk.
I might weave. I might stagger. But falling until I'm sitting is just not something that happened that often.
Maybe you weren't drinking enough?
Maybe we should substitute involuntary puking in for some of those fall downs.
If we want to make a more realistic alcohol experience, make canned emotes that randomly target people in the room with you for when your character gets handsy.
Or we could just rely on roleplay like usual.
Also, I will remark that alcohol is a banned substance in rifle competition because it calms the nerves. It just makes you less nervous. It doesn't make you a better shot. So unless your character is doing something they would otherwise be nervous or anxious about, then alcohol doesn't help them at all. Giving a blanket bonus to physical activity while drunk is not realistic. It doesn't make you better at... pretty much anything other than getting outside your own head.
Quote from: Brokkr on August 30, 2019, 01:41:05 PM
Maybe you weren't drinking enough?
Maybe we should substitute involuntary puking in for some of those fall downs.
I'll be honest, responding to a suggestion for improving the drinking code with the equivalent of "Oh yeah, well maybe we'll make it worse!" is not a great look.
Falling over your own feet every few rooms when your score reads "drunk" or "mildly intoxicated" feels gamey and ridiculous. It isn't realistic. That's why people have a problem with it.
I would have less of a problem if stumbling (or even puking) happened now and then at "plastered" but as the code stands, it feels like a legacy from Armageddon's hack and slash diku roots, played for lols and code effects, as opposed to code which supports roleplay.
Or we could just remove the stumbling code as there are already tons of negatives to being drunk, and let people roleplay how their character responds to alcohol.
I will also chime in and say that falling down happens way too often and after too few drinks.
Dizziness is associated with a BAC of about .18. For a 150lb person, that takes about six drinks in one hour. You start falling over like a drunkard way earlier than that in Arm, and spreading your drinks out across entire nights doesn't help very much.
Edit: The above is for a man IRL. But since women and men are physiologically comparable on Zalanthas I figure everyone gets the same speed on this one here too.
Quote from: Delirium on August 30, 2019, 01:56:26 PM
Quote from: Brokkr on August 30, 2019, 01:41:05 PM
Maybe you weren't drinking enough?
Maybe we should substitute involuntary puking in for some of those fall downs.
I'll be honest, responding to a suggestion for improving the drinking code with the equivalent of "Oh yeah, well maybe we'll make it worse!" is not a great look.
The first sentence was meant to be double entendre. I would be surprised if they were falling down after a few drinks if they had been drinking commonly IC'ly.
The second was by substituting puking in for a fall down, you lower the incidence rate. If you lower drunkenness when someone pukes, it becomes a mechanism to further avoid fall downs.
That makes sense. Thanks for explaining!
Quote from: Brokkr on August 30, 2019, 02:26:06 PM
Quote from: Delirium on August 30, 2019, 01:56:26 PM
Quote from: Brokkr on August 30, 2019, 01:41:05 PM
Maybe you weren't drinking enough?
Maybe we should substitute involuntary puking in for some of those fall downs.
I'll be honest, responding to a suggestion for improving the drinking code with the equivalent of "Oh yeah, well maybe we'll make it worse!" is not a great look.
The first sentence was meant to be double entendre. I would be surprised if they were falling down after a few drinks if they had been drinking commonly IC'ly.
The second was by substituting puking in for a fall down, you lower the incidence rate. If you lower drunkenness when someone pukes, it becomes a mechanism to further avoid fall downs.
I've drunk puked way more than I've fallen down drunk. I would be so on board with an urge to vomit followed by vomiting shortly after in place of like 90% of the falling. :)
Or having most of the falling replaced with room movement echoes and the occasional fail message, like you get with mounts.
Or some combination of the above and having the falling start kicking in at "completely hammered." Just... something that doesn't feel as cartoonish and cringey as falling on your face three times a room when you aren't even that drunk.
Remember folks, don't puke on Lord Fancy Pants' floor!
Eh, that's what servants are for.
I just want to throw my support toward altering the alcohol code. It's been like that since as far back as I can remember and I think it could definitely use my tweaking. All of the ideas thus far have been good.
I think we should keep the performance enhancing drugs in their category and the fun rp juice in its category.
Drunk falling code made me stop getting drunk ever. It is awful.
While I have been falling down drunk similar to drunk code ig, I believe overall it should be toned down.
What Gotdamnmiracle said though.
To those that avoid drinking to avoid falling down, remember tea.
Quote from: Brokkr on September 03, 2019, 11:57:18 AM
To those that avoid drinking to avoid falling down, remember tea.
I'm worried I'm misreading this. Are you implying tea will sober you up (or at least reduce the most annoying effects of alcohol) or just that tea is another acceptable rp beverage?
On that note I DO wish stimulants had a larger role in coded mechanics but with no requred sleep code all I can think of is a (very mild or slow) regen for stamina that doesn't require you to be sitting/resting/sleeping. While under the effects maybe you get thirsty more quickly to simulate the diuretic effects of the drink, though certain studies say that it doesn't have dehydrating qualities so maybe just make it a (relatively) null value for drinking similar to booze ig. I worry though that will too become a combat drug when it should more closely mirror a utility item like a piece of gear that gives you flat stam, though that'd just be an already present effect in game. I like the idea though of guzzling a skin of watchman tea because you know it's gonna be a long day and you have to be up and moving the whole time.
Apologies if this is too far off topic.
I've been told IG hundreds of times to drink tea to sober up. Which is absolutely stupid, tea 100% does not sober you up when you have drank an entire bottle of whiskey.
Quote from: Hauwke on September 03, 2019, 05:00:24 PM
I've been told IG hundreds of times to drink tea to sober up. Which is absolutely stupid, tea 100% does not sober you up when you have drank an entire bottle of whiskey.
I agree. It seems kinda depressing that tea is rendered essentially useless by this. If no one likes getting knock out drunk they aren't drinking tea either.
Quote from: Vanth on March 12, 2009, 11:27:14 PM
This code has also been used to make teapots, which you can buy from potters in Allanak and Tuluk. Teapots can currently be used to brew 5 varieties of herbal tea: spiceweed tea, blackstem tea, dwarfflower tea, greenmantle tea, and kanjel tea.
Each of these teas are helpful in sobering up if you've had too much booze to drink.
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,34715.msg432917.html#msg432917 (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,34715.msg432917.html#msg432917)
I just don't understand why tea would sober you up. It's tea, not some magical blood alcohol remover
Yes it is! Cuz these plants are special and that's what the tea was designed to do!
Quit bringing your RL thinking brain into my fantasy world man!
Quote from: JohnMichaelHenry on September 03, 2019, 11:58:39 PM
Yes it is! Cuz these plants are special and that's what the tea was designed to do!
Quit bringing your RL thinking brain into my fantasy world man!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlwwRxfcVEr4AUg/giphy.gif)
Tea can help you sober up in a pinch similar to like coffee.
It's not the sobering effect that bothers me. It's the fact it's tea!
Like, maybe it could be some weird beverage that Vennant sells, made of chalton piss and half-giant vinegar.
The lengths some of you go to for that grimdark experience.
Nobody's stopping you from putting chalton piss in your tea.
Tea and coffee are both extremely thematic to desert environments and the weird pseudo-OOC pushback against it is 100% because there was a popular tea house in Poet's Circle. People forget that it's been sold by Vennant and in other locations for literally RL decades.
I'll have you know Vennant has been selling chalton piss for ages. He calls it whiskey.
Quote from: Delirium on September 04, 2019, 07:33:32 AM
The lengths some of you go to for that grimdark experience.
Nobody's stopping you from putting chalton piss in your tea.
Tea and coffee are both extremely thematic to desert environments and the weird pseudo-OOC pushback against it is 100% because there was a popular tea house in Poet's Circle. People forget that it's been sold by Vennant and in other locations for literally RL decades.
Lol what? This must be sarcasm. No I think we're just having trouble drawing IRL parallels. It's one of those realism VS mechanics arguments, but the problem I see is that if no one is getting drunk anyway because the code sucks no one is drinking tea. I always just figured it was an rp item with a different return than water but codedly the same.
In my experience getting heavily drunk regularly also seems to make you more and more resistant to getting drunk from lesser brews, so not taking the risk of getting floor-stumbling drunk in the first place makes your characters actually less capable of handling those few light ales. Makes almost all lesser brews like flavour items unless you drink a really excessive amount of them. You can really see it in drink-offs too, people drinking Vennant's best like water.
Quote from: Hauwke on September 04, 2019, 01:06:55 AM
Like, maybe it could be some weird beverage that Vennant sells, made of chalton piss and half-giant vinegar.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/EbNRa9eE9YHni/giphy.gif)
Louder for those in the back: Vennant sells tea. :P