Idea is the title. Beat people up and remove their masks or subdue them and make them remove it if you don't wanna fight or just ask nicely.
Also raised hoods should cover up anything worn, tattooed, or scarred anything above the neck.
Quote from: MeTekillot on August 27, 2018, 06:54:19 PM
Idea is the title. Beat people up and remove their masks or subdue them and make them remove it if you don't wanna fight or just ask nicely.
Also raised hoods should cover up anything worn, tattooed, or scarred anything above the neck.
In theory it's a great idea, but you'd need to have more than one mdesc. Otherwise looking at someone will still show their hair (which would be covered by a hood). I think I posted something along these lines in the past, totally support the concept, just not sure how it could be implemented without everyone having to make multiple mdescs to make sure "this" covers "that" feature, and doesn't cover "this other" feature, etc. etc.
I can see how this could be done a lot easier than having to make a custom mdesc for when your features are hidden, supply a basic description of:
This tall/short/(blank) figure is shrouded and their body made amorphous by an <insert here>, <insert here extra lines detailing the cloak if it's something fancy> , their face covered by <insert facewrap/mask here>, give or take more details.
Something similar to the above that's largely automated based on what they are wearing. Any other details about yourself you dont care about sharing would be left up to you to flesh out via tdesc
mdesc hiding masks did exist, but were removed from gameplay. For some unfortunate reason :).
The idea of masking-parts-of-mdescs or having-multiple-mdescs or what have you...just won't fly. Too much work, too big a deviation from current gameplay, etc. For this to work it has to (1) simply hide the mdesc without requiring additional character-creation work and (2) have enough restrictions that we can live with the game balance.
In particular, I don't think we can live with a game where a masked assassin can stay completely unidentifiable.
What if engaging in combat, casting magick, or being subdued all caused your mdesc to show?
The second mdesc could be optional. If you don't set it, it just uses your regular mdesc.
If they're wearing a *facemask* then their hair would be seen. Unless they're wearing a hat - or hood up - in which case their hair would be obscured. But what if they're wearing their hood up, but their cloak is open? Then you see their general body type and shape, anything that isn't covered would reveal skin color and texture...
This is the problem we had back when masks used to obscure mdescs. It wasn't believable that something you put on your face would obscure every single physical detail about your character. Especially things like "long trinket-adorned dreadlocks" - unless that mask comes all the way down your back, it's not going to cover your hair, and anyone who looks at you will know that it's you, because you're the only one they know with "long trinket-adorned dreadlocks."
If that's in your mdesc, they SHOULD see it. If its not in your mdesc, it should be, because it's a distinctive trait. If you want to add a tdesc saying that we can no longer see those dreadlocks, that's great but two things have to be true: 1) we have to trust everyone to add those tdescs and 2) we have to trust everyone to honor them when they see them.
If one person fails on either side, then the entire idea fails.
The only other alternative really - besides what we already have now - is to have multiple mdescs. One main for people that includes their face, hair (if any), body type, eye color, overall size, shape, unusual "normally visible" markings, etc. Another one for "all the above, except this person's head is covered." And possibly others to obscure the face, but not the hair, and the hair, but not the face, and so on.
You'd basically have to account for multiple possibilities.
I would be good with the combination of mask+closed cloak+raised hood completely hiding MDesc, under one condition. There should be a command that any character can use to pull down another person's hood without knocking them out or subduing them. Anyone who's ever been pantsed will know that people don't have to completely dominate you physically to quickly pull a piece of cloth that is covering you away.
A skinny, short 13 year old could pants the Mountain.
Just make it to where there is a command delay after de-hooding someone so that the person you did it to has a few seconds to decide whether to run, attack, or whatever.
Mdesc hiding masks were removed for basically 2 reasons, It was deemed unrealistic for a single item to cover entire body/mdesc, and the value of them was unrealistically high. Of course the second reason could have been fixed by simply making them not rare.
Now, what is funny is, right after removel, I suggested exactly the same fix as MeTekillot.
I would prefer a disguise skill.
You have the skill, and disguise yourself using coded props, like fake elf ears, fake mustache, in some combination, that produced semi-random gen descs, based on those items. High skill allows access to deeper description pools, for more variation, and the employment of better disguise components, up to, and including, house gear.
So jade longsword + militia cloak + eyepatch would let you pass as a soldier, with your normal eq, but with random gen s/mdescs, but using militia cloak requires advanced disguise. Kind of like, you need a certain skill to craft mek hide, or whatever. It could even be done, via craft.
craft disguise mustache ears cloak feces
You disguise yourself as a filthy, half-elven waif.
Clayworking required to make master required stuff, like face shaping clay, or whatever. Think of all those components, like fake eyes, peg legs, whatever, that barely/never see use. It'd actually make stealing a clans gear/getting stolen gear back, really important, or some infiltrator will walk into your compound, and steal all your scrabloaf.
A lot more involved, and more work, but interesting. Also requires, people think about the gear they wear, when being disguised.
Give it to infiltrators to help comp lower stealth skills, as master potential, and maybe a sub or two, too, to jman. Let everyone get it to apprentice, like drawing, just for flavor/funsies.
Or we could do my thing and just reintroduce old code with some toggles instead of entirely new skill systems, maybe
Hiding mdescs, or portions of mdescs only works realistically if we have access to much more information about the PCs we observe.
E.g.:
1. Partial or part-specific mdescs
2. Default voices set at chargen
3. Default gaits set at chargen
Quote from: Synthesis on August 28, 2018, 03:23:28 AM
Hiding mdescs, or portions of mdescs only works realistically if we have access to much more information about the PCs we observe.
E.g.:
1. Partial or part-specific mdescs
2. Default voices set at chargen
3. Default gaits set at chargen
I wouldn't want to let the initial character application be overly complicated.
I'd suggest to have these values be variable, much like 'mood' or 'tdesc' are.
Perhaps an 'ooc room' that we could go into, like the scar/tattoo room, and be able to set some description/features there.
Issue - if it ain't approved by staff, we could abuse a 'hidden' description we write up ourselves on-the-fly, if it completely removes the mdesc
Issue - if it must be approved by staff, it makes initial character application longer (and new players would not try out the game)
Or y'all could just play right and, if someone's covered, not see their mdesc. *shrug emoji*
Quote from: boog on August 28, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Or y'all could just play right and, if someone's covered, not see their mdesc. *shrug emoji*
While great in theory, it's also entirely subjective, also slanted by people's aversion towards stealth being used, i.e. 'If I got a look at them, I count it as a look that gives me something.'
In other words, as with many things in Armageddon, people often tend to find a way to justify what the code gives them rather than sit back and question what the code gave them, which I view as entirely understandable and why I support as much code support for desired outcomes as humanly possible.
I've made the mistake of identifying people who were wearing a mask. I missed the piece of equipment when I looked at them and continued just talking to them and asking them about certain facial features. Am I a bad player? Probably. Was it on purpose? No.
Quote from: The Warshaper on August 28, 2018, 02:13:06 PM
I've made the mistake of identifying people who were wearing a mask. I missed the piece of equipment when I looked at them and continued just talking to them and asking them about certain facial features. Am I a bad player? Probably. Was it on purpose? No.
Maybe a better solution would be to have the 'face' and 'eyes' location be bolded using the colour code, so it 'pops' when people look at the person?
(1) Give assess -v an echo rather than an hemote: "$n sizes you up carefully."
(2) Increase the detail of information provided by assess -v.
He is about 3 years older than you.
He is 4 inches shorter than you.
He is about 10 stones heaver than you.
He looks like he could throw the Giant's Fist ball about 20 cords. (I jest--or do I?)
Make these values randomly inaccurate, but repeatable for a given viewer and target: Amos doesn't guess the same values for Bob that Talia does, but their own guesses stay consistent. Make the guesses really accurate for persons of same race and similar age.
(3) When a person's mdesc would be hidden, cause look to display assess -v output instead.
Result: you can't uniquely describe a person's identity, but you can pass on a reasonable "fingerprint" and you can fairly accurately identify them in a lineup.
Quote from: boog on August 28, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Or y'all could just play right and, if someone's covered, not see their mdesc. *shrug emoji*
Pretty much this.
You can try to pick out characteristics you might notice from their height, skinnyness, eye-color etc. But it's always going to be gamey because you know it's a player and not one of the world's virtual denizens.
Quote from: Inky on August 28, 2018, 07:59:14 PM
Quote from: boog on August 28, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Or y'all could just play right and, if someone's covered, not see their mdesc. *shrug emoji*
Pretty much this.
You can try to pick out characteristics you might notice from their height, skinnyness, eye-color etc. But it's always going to be gamey because you know it's a player and not one of the world's virtual denizens.
The problem with relying on players to portray this accurately is that 1. People make mistakes, and might not notice the mask, and 2. Some people might just not play it right, and act like if they saw the mdesc, they saw it IC.
In either case above, it's problematic when certain types of characters rely on anonymity to stay alive, so even if another player incorrectly identifies you, resulting in your death, the opacity of the game will rarely allow you to know that's what happened, and even if it did, it would change nothing because staff won't ressurect a character killed in this sort of manner because often that mistake by 1 character reverberated, causing IC interactions with other characters that ultimately led to the PK. There is, quite simply, too much to try to retcon and say someone survived in such a circumstance.
And so, for something like this, code should be utilized, I think. But it shouldn't be unbreakable anonymity. It should be a very simple matter to rip someone's hood down, revealing their Mdesc, even if said character would otherwise physically dominate you. See pantsed in public as I described above.
I suppose. I just personally very much err on the caution side. Or try to remember to at least.
Perhaps make raised hoods and masks give the mdesc/sdesx flags?
Kind of like having something very heavy in your inventory, or have some very visible spell effect on.
The short, honest elf stands here.
- facial features obscured by a mask
The elf puts his hood on.
The short figure stands here
- facial features obscured by a mask
- body features obscured by the cloak.
Mdesc remains the same, except some text added at the end.
And leave it for people themselves to decide what to notice and what not to.
Quote from: Dar on August 28, 2018, 09:09:20 PM
And leave it for people themselves to decide what to notice and what not to.
Highlighted the problem there for you. Leaving this to players to decide is an inherently flawed plan because you're relying on an inherently flawed species. Code will get this right 100% of the time. You can never expect people to approach that same level of reliability.
Again, with the code change, it would have to be -EASY- to yank someone's hood down, but having hood + mask hide Mdesc would be helpful to all sorts of roles in the game. Basically give people a 100% chance of successfully pulling someone's hood down, but when they do, they have, say, a 6-8 second command delay. So if you yank the hood off a raider who just demanded your money, you can be virtually guaranteed they're going to attack you. But for the courageous, it gives people an option to identify nefarious individuals, and for the nefarious individuals, it gives an assurance against metagaming.
This system would also prevent the endless griefing that was possible with the masks of yesteryear, since there will be a counterbalance to it in the removal of that ability, should someone be so brave as to pull off their hood.
Serious question - and this is even for the current system:
Lots of tall, blue-eyed men of staggering variety over the years.
Same with petite, green-eyed women.
Barrel-chested, hawk-nosed, pale, swarthy, curvy, rotund, hairless, mustachioed.
Which of these things get obscured by people wearing hoods, from a distance?
All of them. Just pulling a hood up to cover your hair and shadow your face (but not cover it) is enough to obscure your entire sdesc, no matter that there's nothing in your sdesc that *would* be obscured by a hood (except hair).
Theoretically, JUST having their hood up, with a cloak that isn't or doesn't shut, no sunslits, no facewrap, no veil, should return:
the barrel-chested, hawk-nosed, pale, swarthy, curvy, rotund, mustachioed, green-eyed woman.
The only thing missing is the hair on her head, because that's the only thing that's actually covered enough to truly obscure it. And for that matter, a greathelm should obscure any instance of "hair" in her sdesc and main desc already, and it doesn't.
And now you want to make it easy to obscure their entire mdesc up close and personal?
Possible solution:
Make it so the following must be true:
You're wearing a cloak or other un-fitted outer garment that reaches from head to toe with the hood up.
Your cloak MUST be closed, in order to put the hood up. You get an error message if you try while it's open. Or, if you try, it automatically closes it for you.
There, now you should still show up as the tall green-eyed figure - but your eyes are NOT obscured. Shadowed, sure, Not discernable from a distance, agreed. But definitely visible. Eyes that are mentioned in the sdesc should still be there if you're hooded/facewrapped. But should NOT be visible when wearing sunslits. Same in their mdesc. But again that leads us to needing more than one mdesc.
Case in point. Even with reasonable coverage, we're going to have people who insist that they can identify everyone by their eyes.
My first thought:
With all the concern around stealth with the class changes, why do folks want this, which would obviously result in stealth getting a huge nerf?
My second thought:
Something like this may make sense, but only in the context of a complete redo of stealth. Where instead of being independent systems they are integrated, such that hoods/masks/cloaks contributed to your stealth level, and stealth shifted to multiple components. So one component might be not being detected, and another might be not being recognized. I am not sure what form this would take, and we aren't looking at redoing stealth right now, but it would be an interesting, if potentially complicated, direction for stealth to go in.
QuoteWith all the concern around stealth with the class changes, why do folks want this, which would obviously result in stealth getting a huge nerf?
I don't follow. How is the ability to make oneself less recognizable a nerf to stealth?
Quote from: Armaddict on August 29, 2018, 10:55:28 AM
Case in point. Even with reasonable coverage, we're going to have people who insist that they can identify everyone by their eyes.
Right...out of hundreds of thousands of PCs/NPCs/vNPCs. People like to forget about how populated the world is in situations like these.
@Lizzie ; Bear in mind, we're not talking about a walmart hoodie like this: (http://www.sandipointe.com/im/hoodies/guy-hoodie-11.jpeg)
We're talking a cloak, like this: (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0b/47/d0/0b47d0051f309da7d6cf4c843a26a636.jpg)
It makes a big difference in how people percieve hoods.
Eh, you'd still be able to see enough of the second guy's face most of the time. Unless he's always bowing his head and staring at the ground.
I'd like a mundane identify skill for perceptive types that allows you to see an sdesc through hoods/masks/facewraps/veils/whatever.
IMO there's already enough verbatem sdesc-repeating as it is.
Quote from: roughneck on August 29, 2018, 03:22:23 PM
Eh, you'd still be able to see enough of the second guy's face most of the time. Unless he's always bowing his head and staring at the ground.
The second guy is looking directly at the camera in that picture. If you're deliberately attempting to keep your face covered with such a hood, it's not difficult. Also, remember that we're dealing with a time period in which artificial light doesn't exist, so even in the daytime indoors, things are very shadowy. And at night, you're basically seeing by candlelight/torchlight, which is sketchy making out details even WITHOUT a hood.
Quote from: Heade on August 29, 2018, 03:36:44 PM
Quote from: roughneck on August 29, 2018, 03:22:23 PM
Eh, you'd still be able to see enough of the second guy's face most of the time. Unless he's always bowing his head and staring at the ground.
The second guy is looking directly at the camera in that picture. If you're deliberately attempting to keep your face covered with such a hood, it's not difficult. Also, remember that we're dealing with a time period in which artificial light doesn't exist, so even in the daytime indoors, things are very shadowy. And at night, you're basically seeing by candlelight/torchlight, which is sketchy making out details even WITHOUT a hood.
I can tell, with that hood up, that he has a dimpled chin, pale skin, full bowed lips, a narrow face, and his nose seems to be fairly prominent, but not misshapen.
In addition, anyone wearing their hood up INDOORS should be suspect, by virtue of the fact that they're intentionally obscuring their faces indoors, where there's no "elements" they need to protect themselves from.
Outside buildings, there are TWO moons to provide light by night and day, with the third moon providing nothing. There's a desert sun with very little foliage (at least south of the span) to shadow their features or otherwise protect them from direct, blaring, incredibly bright sunlight. So it's not likely that a hood would obscure any part of their face, unless as someone said - they kept their heads bowed and were staring at the ground.
Quote from: Armaddict on August 29, 2018, 02:27:56 PM
QuoteWith all the concern around stealth with the class changes, why do folks want this, which would obviously result in stealth getting a huge nerf?
I don't follow. How is the ability to make oneself less recognizable a nerf to stealth?
You won't follow if you think of it that way. Let's rephrase!
How does the ability to make oneself less recognizable an increase to stealth (which would then allow a nerf to the actual stealth skill)?
Suddenly, that occasional glance opportunity that currently is potentially character killing can be dealt with. Which means completely getting rid of not detectable, ghost level stealth is viable. Because brief lapses in stealth can be dealt with. Which means we can change stealth so that no one gets to that level of stealth.
How is covering your face stealth? WHat are you talking about dude. I want to be a mugger who can crack someone in the head without being dimed throughout a city of almost a million people because anybody who gets their text stolen REMEMBERS every single aspect of my face when, reasonably, they should be dodging half a dozen muggers every night, and maybe one or two during the day. Why does having that require nerfing the rest of stealth?
Quote from: MeTekillot on August 29, 2018, 05:24:13 PM
How is covering your face stealth? WHat are you talking about dude. I want to be a mugger who can crack someone in the head without being dimed throughout a city of almost a million people because anybody who gets their text stolen REMEMBERS every single aspect of my face when, reasonably, they should be dodging half a dozen muggers every night, and maybe one or two during the day. Why does having that require nerfing the rest of stealth?
Good question, but here's the question right back at you:
Why are you stealing a PC's text, when there are almost a million other potential victims that you have a better chance at robbing without getting caught?
My answer: because code.
Your answer: ?
Because I play this game to interact with other players and if I can victimize a player instead of victimizing an NPC I'm gonna. If the code can help other players behave realistically when their butts are hurt over their loss of their text fanciness then let's make it do so.
Please try not to paint all other players as somehow stupid or petty because you don't like/see their roleplay.
Sometimes it's an over-reaction due to not taking the virtual world into account. Sometimes it isn't.
Also, chillax.
Quote from: Brokkr on August 29, 2018, 04:43:30 PM
Quote from: Armaddict on August 29, 2018, 02:27:56 PM
QuoteWith all the concern around stealth with the class changes, why do folks want this, which would obviously result in stealth getting a huge nerf?
I don't follow. How is the ability to make oneself less recognizable a nerf to stealth?
You won't follow if you think of it that way. Let's rephrase!
How does the ability to make oneself less recognizable an increase to stealth (which would then allow a nerf to the actual stealth skill)?
Suddenly, that occasional glance opportunity that currently is potentially character killing can be dealt with. Which means completely getting rid of not detectable, ghost level stealth is viable. Because brief lapses in stealth can be dealt with. Which means we can change stealth so that no one gets to that level of stealth.
Yeah, I don't really get why this idea immediately leads to the idea of nerfing stealth. Lots of people without stealth could use the system I described above. Nerfing stealth seems unnecessary for this, and if you read about the hood removal part that I've mentioned several times, that would still make stealth characters potentially threatened by those brief glances, because someone could immediately pull down their hood and get a look at them. It would just forced that thief to recognize that someone has now got a good look at them, and they can either risk it and run, or try their luck with eliminating a witness.
While I agree that I see no reason that this immediately necessitates a nerf to stealth rather than allowing for a scenery in which case everyone is not just immediately recognizable all the time...
I'm also curious about what exactly you mean by nerf to stealth. If you're talking about just a lazy, misguided reduction of stealth skills across the board to make less people try to use it to accomplish anything, then I'd pretty much wrinkle my nose and say figures. That's not a boon to the game in any form to remove or disable toolboxes for accomplishing goals or facilitating conflict.
But if you're talking about an actual stealth overhaul that makes it act in cooler, more dynamic ways than an invisibility cloak with a short delay and a passive scanning state to try and see them...I'd say that adding this idea and getting on that might actually be something good to prioritize.
I dunno man. Guy is stealth'd. You only see him with your scan a small percentage of the time. Mask'd on top of that. Targetting commands (if there was an un-mask one) only go through the stealth same % that you can see that person.
Not sure how that is not a pretty big buff to stealth.
Quote from: Brokkr on August 29, 2018, 11:52:33 PM
I dunno man. Guy is stealth'd. You only see him with your scan a small percentage of the time. Mask'd on top of that. Targetting commands (if there was an un-mask one) only go through the stealth same % that you can see that person.
Not sure how that is not a pretty big buff to stealth.
...that's a pretty big buff for everyone. Right now absolute stealth is the only means of coming close to the desired effect in the first place. Tying them together by necessity in light of your feelings on stealth is why you feel that way, but it impacts the riders in the waste just as much.
The only people who it doesn't uh...'buff'...is tavern/social folk, but I don't see why they get all the benefit out of the introduction of what is and isn't possible for players to do.
I work in a clean room sometimes. Other people in there, with a single glance at me (an uncommon visitor), despite the fact that they can only see my eyes, can instantly recognize me. It's uncanny. I'm not saying most people or could recognize a stranger from just their eyes, I'm just saying it's possible. When you have no s/mdesc, it isn't.
Also, if you've ever eyerolled at the 'disappear while talking to you' hide exploit, you have no idea how annoyed you need to prepare to be if we reintroduce true masks back into that equation. It was everyone-in-the-bar-watching-you-commit-clumsy-crimes-and-no-one-can-do-a-thing ridiculous.
QuoteI work in a clean room sometimes. Other people in there, with a single glance at me (an uncommon visitor), despite the fact that they can only see my eyes, can instantly recognize me. It's uncanny. I'm not saying most people or could recognize a stranger from just their eyes, I'm just saying it's possible. When you have no s/mdesc, it isn't.
That's probably because they have a list of people who it could possibly be to choose from. If you wandered out into the street in the same get-up, did something, then wandered back the next day, how many people would recognize you as dude who did something?
QuoteAlso, if you've ever eyerolled at the 'disappear while talking to you' hide exploit, you have no idea how annoyed you need to prepare to be if we reintroduce true masks back into that equation. It was everyone-in-the-bar-watching-you-commit-clumsy-crimes-and-no-one-can-do-a-thing ridiculous.
Having been there during the era of masks, I'm pretty sure you're just making this up. Crimcode was still in effect, and masks were so rare that people were actively trying to hold onto them at all costs. But you did see them in high profile cases where recognition=death, or where you knew you needed to be able to be seen in the process...such as an interrogation.
There's no reason that anonymity, that an alternative appearance, should be completely beyond reach. There is also no reason that anyone is obligated to know exactly who is doing what at any given point.
Quote from: Brokkr on August 29, 2018, 04:43:30 PM
How does the ability to make oneself less recognizable an increase to stealth (which would then allow a nerf to the actual stealth skill)?
Suddenly, that occasional glance opportunity that currently is potentially character killing can be dealt with. Which means completely getting rid of not detectable, ghost level stealth is viable. Because brief lapses in stealth can be dealt with. Which means we can change stealth so that no one gets to that level of stealth.
I think they're two different things. The stealth skill allows you to go
unnoticed. It isn't a disguise skill, though, because anyone who can notice you can see your desc. All of it. Disguises (masks, hoods, facewraps) allow you to go
-unrecognized-, which is different. A set of shock troops wearing Tor Scorpion facemasks are unrecognizeable, but definitely very obviously noticeable. And I think both are worthwhile.
The ability to be disguised is not the same thing as the ability to be unnoticed. Yes, stealthy players could do both, but that doesn't mean that you'd have to nerf the stealth skill just because people can wear masks.
There's a lot of RP opportunities that are missing because of the inability to go unrecognized. The only time you can reliably subvert a character/player's knowledge of who you are is if they 1)don't know who you are already and 2) didn't copy/paste/save your desc from some time ago. The character-killing ability of anyone who can get a 'l figure' off to report to the authorities almost annihilates the ability to be a repeat criminal offender who doesn't murder their targets.
I'll give an example from another mud which allowed face coverings, (also an ability to 'study' people and find things out about their sdesc/desc). I had a character who was the leader of a revolutionary group go into hiding after his clan's compound got demolished. The other clan members were similarly incognito. He wore a facemask as part of the new identity to prevent him from being easily tied to his past affiliations. (The event was a high # pwipe, so it was helped in part by a slew of incoming new characters). It was tough to keep up the masquerade, but I was able to do it. Finally, he was outed because someone recognized his mask and tied him to a fight that he mysteriously showed up to rescue someone at. He then had weapons drawn, pointed at his face and a big bad PC trying to kill him...til he pulled off his mask, gestured, and the rest of the incognito/masked and unknown folk in the group revealed themselves, joined his fight, and fought off the rest. And thus the clan re-emerged from the rubble.
----
I think that it's not a game-breaking adjunct, and allows for a lot more unique scenarios. Being able to hide mdescs allows for a number of things to be conducted and allow another character/player to keep on playing, without resorting to spells, PK, keeping hide/sneak flags on unrealistically, to artificially keep the knowledge locked down. And yes, you would hope players can RP not knowing every little thing about someone's mdesc, but that also requires a bit of immersion-breaking for them, too. The game itself is much more compelling that way, I think.
There's also ways to mitigate the aspect. One, allow peek or watch, or something else to allow you to snag the sdesc, or parts of the mdesc. There could also be a toggle of descriptor information that you could set at char-gen or through a 'addkeyword' kind of functionality that could be returned to someone trying to uncover someone's identity.
So the dark-haired, aureate-eyed man could list for eyes: Aureate golden yellow sallow burnished hooded and for hair: midnight dark black long bone-braided. And then whatever look (or if its tied to a skill) could give a random return of those descriptors.
You look at the male wearing the obsidian, featureless mask.
The male with the obsidian, featureless mask has %yellow% eyes, and %midnight% hair.
-> Now you can have the AoD looking for that raider with yellow eyes, and have it be a not-one-shot homing missile description.
Quote from: James de Monet on August 30, 2018, 01:19:06 AM
I work in a clean room sometimes. Other people in there, with a single glance at me (an uncommon visitor), despite the fact that they can only see my eyes, can instantly recognize me. It's uncanny. I'm not saying most people or could recognize a stranger from just their eyes, I'm just saying it's possible. When you have no s/mdesc, it isn't.
This. There is a lot more to recognizing someone than just their face, especially if they are not a stranger. If I have seen you every day, I'm going to recognize you by your posture, shape, your voice and/or the way you move within a few minutes, at most.
Anything obscuring your description completely makes it possible for your buddy of ten years to sit next to you in the Gaj for days with no way whatsoever to recognize them. This is just as unrealistic as the current situation.
Edit: I'm not saying we can't hide main descriptions, but if we do? Let's take this into account if we do and add some sort of countermeasure or ability to recognize the masked character.
Quote from: Nao on August 30, 2018, 03:51:46 PM
This. There is a lot more to recognizing someone than just their face, especially if they are not a stranger. If I have seen you every day, I'm going to recognize you by your posture, shape, your voice and/or the way you move within a few minutes, at most.
Not necessarily. I was a member of a LARP group that has played together for 15-20 years, but it's a fairly large group. One of the guys played a character where he wore a costume, and played with a hollowed out teddy bear on his head with two small eye holes poked in it. He played his character in an assumed voice. None of the other players knew who the player of this character was for a month, over 4 separate, multiple-hour playing sessions.
Quote from: Heade on August 30, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: Nao on August 30, 2018, 03:51:46 PM
This. There is a lot more to recognizing someone than just their face, especially if they are not a stranger. If I have seen you every day, I'm going to recognize you by your posture, shape, your voice and/or the way you move within a few minutes, at most.
Not necessarily. I was a member of a LARP group that has played together for 15-20 years, but it's a fairly large group. One of the guys played a character where he wore a costume, and played with a hollowed out teddy bear on his head with two small eye holes poked in it. He played his character in an assumed voice. None of the other players knew who the player of this character was for a month, over 4 separate, multiple-hour playing sessions.
Added some emphasis.
Quote from: Nao on August 30, 2018, 03:59:40 PM
Quote from: Heade on August 30, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
Quote from: Nao on August 30, 2018, 03:51:46 PM
This. There is a lot more to recognizing someone than just their face, especially if they are not a stranger. If I have seen you every day, I'm going to recognize you by your posture, shape, your voice and/or the way you move within a few minutes, at most.
Not necessarily. I was a member of a LARP group that has played together for 15-20 years, but it's a fairly large group. One of the guys played a character where he wore a costume, and played with a hollowed out teddy bear on his head with two small eye holes poked in it. He played his character in an assumed voice. None of the other players knew who the player of this character was for a month, over 4 separate, multiple-hour playing sessions.
Added some emphasis.
That doesn't change anything. Did you miss the part about us all knowing the guy for 15 years? We all hang out together. Groups like that tend to be close-knit. Yet he was able to fool us all by concealing his identity. A couple people knew it was him, only because they were running the game and he rode with them, but not because anyone was able to tell by the way he spoke/moved/acted.
Quote from: Bogre on August 30, 2018, 03:24:11 PM
There's a lot of RP opportunities that are missing because of the inability to go unrecognized. The only time you can reliably subvert a character/player's knowledge of who you are is if they 1)don't know who you are already and 2) didn't copy/paste/save your desc from some time ago. The character-killing ability of anyone who can get a 'l figure' off to report to the authorities almost annihilates the ability to be a repeat criminal offender who doesn't murder their targets.
No matter what is done, I feel this is the most important part.
I like the suggested disguise skill. Perhaps for four hours or 1 RL day, you could look like someone else. If you were an elf, you'd still look like an elf, but you could look like a woman or a black-haired elf instead, until the hair dye begins to run or the fruit falls out of your boobs like in Mulan.
Quote from: boog on August 28, 2018, 12:00:13 PM
Or y'all could just play right and, if someone's covered, not see their mdesc. *shrug emoji*
Quote from: Dar on August 28, 2018, 09:09:20 PM
And leave it for people themselves to decide what to notice and what not to.
(https://i.imgur.com/Id7Ylai.jpg)