Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nyr on August 09, 2015, 12:10:19 PM

Title: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Nyr on August 09, 2015, 12:10:19 PM
After a week of feedback/testing/etc, here's the preview for tomorrow's code release.  We'll announce separately at that point/crosspost here when it is actually live.



Withdrawal transaction fee changed to deposit transaction fee.

Nobles and templars are now exempt from transaction fees.

GMH family "clans" created.  Existing family members will need to be added to these clans.  GMH family will be charged half as much as other commoners on deposit transaction fees.

Current transaction fees for commoners (levied upon deposit):

Verbiage change on banker NPCs: The banker NPC will address templars by their titles (Lord Templar/Lady Templar) and nobles by their titles (Lord Fale/Lady Fale/etc).  They will also lay out the percentages in a way that makes more IC sense. 

In the following scenario, the commoner has 35000 coins in their account from turning tricks and savvy investing in the Zalanthan poopsmithing market:

Code: [Select]
> with 1000
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'You now have 34000 coins in your account.'
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
> i
You are carrying:
1000 obsidian pieces
> balance
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "You have 34000 coins in your account."
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
> dep 1000
The Nenyuki banker tells you, '...and a 200 coin fee on your deposit.'
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'You now have 34800 coins in your account.'
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
> i
You are carrying:
nothing.

And then the savvy investor pulls out 20 coins from his pocketbook to try and deposit (which is less than the 50 minimum needed for a deposit since he has a bank account that is over 2000 coins).

Code: [Select]
You are carrying:
20 obsidian coins.
> dep 20
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'Sorry, but you must deposit at least 50 coins to make it worth my time.'
> balance
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "You have 34800 coins in your account."
The Nenyuki banker says to you, "For an account that large your deposit fee will be 20 for every 100 coins put in."
The Nenyuki banker tells you, 'You do not have that much obsidian!'
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Nyr on August 09, 2015, 12:11:55 PM
Here's the old thread (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49788.0.html) for archival review (it's locked now) in case anyone wants to read it.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Kismetic on August 09, 2015, 12:15:38 PM
I think the other way made more IG sense for the Nenyuki to want to encourage you to deposit all of your money, but ...  hey, it must be a playability thing.  The changes to noble/templar/GMH are spot on.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: LauraMars on August 09, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
I like these changes.  I honestly have been avoiding using the bank because I don't like doing math problems to play the game.  Now I can just shove my money in and some will vanish.  Cool.

More believable and playable from a sponsored role perspective too.  I was not looking forward to my future Nicolas Cage templar pc storing all his coin in his mattress.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Kismetic on August 09, 2015, 12:25:35 PM
What am I, a fucking half-giant, maaan?

I have to admit, I've been using the bank less.  I caught myself carrying around two large the other day, just willy nilly.  I wasn't sure this was a bad thing for the game, though.  :P
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: LauraMars on August 09, 2015, 12:48:25 PM
I think it's good for people to carry more money around.  I even think the original idea of charging nobles/templars money was not necessarily bad.  It reminded me of the Iron Bank of Braavos and gave Nenyuk a very neutral and inflexible flavor...nobody is exempt from fees.  If Armageddon was a book I would be fine with the idea.

From a game design perspective I didn't like it.  My noble was always counting every coin.  I'd be discouraged and feel punished as a player if I felt like 5-20% of my relatively static income was being vacuumed away before I had a chance to inject it into the playerbase.  Plus I can think of a million things I'd rather be doing with my time as a sponsored role than hiking back to the estate to get coins every time I want to buy some swag.

Now I kind of like the idea of using Nenyuk freely being a status symbol on par with wearing silk, haha.

The noble-looking, tressy-tressed man says, in sirihish:
    "Oh, you're giving me twenty coins change from my drink order, Aide Malik?  Let me just deposit that exact amount into my Nenyuk account riiiiight now."

The noble-looking, tressy-tressed man slides a pathetic handful of coins across the counter to a Nenyuki banker, smirking at the unaffiliated poop baron across the room.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: valeria on August 09, 2015, 12:49:56 PM
Five thumbs up.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Alesan on August 09, 2015, 12:52:49 PM
Very nice.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: flurry on August 09, 2015, 01:04:08 PM
This clears up the only concerns I had. Nice.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Molten Heart on August 09, 2015, 01:26:54 PM
I like this. I think it will give players more incentive to do something more with their coins than put them in the bank.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Lizzie on August 09, 2015, 01:28:48 PM
This idea is 100% Lizzie-endorsed.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: wizturbo on August 09, 2015, 01:38:07 PM
Awesome!

I just realized that nobles can now provide a valuable service for wealthy independent merchants...free banking.

20% more is a competitive advantage for a struggling indie that manages to befriend a noble and establish trust.  That's yet another major advantage from gaining an ally with vastly more political power than yourself, which seems to fit the settling.

One more suggestion, have the banking fees be different for each merchant house at some point if possible.  They could reflect how much political backing that house has in Allanak.  House Terash might have very low fees, whereas Kuraci may have higher than Salarr due to past mischief , etc.  It could be something for Merchant houses to chase, build up enough political backing for even a 1% fee reduction and that's a major accomplishment.  It can give politics some teeth for mistakes that bring fees the other direction too.  I'd also include the general principle that if one houses fees go down, someone else's must go up to pay for it...the city isn't going to take a budget cut after all and Nenyuk is going to fight for its profits too....conflict waiting to happen.  A Kadian wants to finagle a fee reduction for the House and earn glorious profits?  Well they have to find some other House to screw over to do it :)
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Refugee on August 09, 2015, 02:58:42 PM
I like this better.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Delirium on August 09, 2015, 03:32:43 PM
This clears up the only concerns I had. Nice.

Yep. Thanks for listening to our feedback!
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Delirium on August 09, 2015, 03:33:52 PM
I just realized that nobles can now provide a valuable service for wealthy independent merchants...free banking.

Ha, I'm reminded of the guy from the Professional who keeps all of Leon's money "safe" for him.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Riev on August 09, 2015, 03:35:22 PM
You havn't grebbed enough salt, friend.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: James de Monet on August 09, 2015, 03:50:46 PM
I liked the old change, but this makes it reinforce the game's theme so much better!

<3
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Erythil on August 09, 2015, 03:54:18 PM
I'm happy to see the fee changed from withdrawal to deposit.  I feel this makes a lot more sense.

I still think the rates are a bit high, but I'm happier with this arrangement overall.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Miko on August 09, 2015, 04:54:27 PM
I was totally okay with the withdraw tax. I am also totally okay with this new version and think it will be easier to use.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Lizzie on August 09, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
Just to be clear, since Nyr gave an example of a rich person, let me know if my example of Generic Noob Amos is wrong:

Amos has no account at all. He shows up from the HoK with 1035 sids. After buying his weapon and gorget and mount, he has 450 sids left. To prevent against noob-theft, he deposits 350 in the bank. His balance is now 350, no fees.

The next day, a noob elf, Malik, tries to elf Amos. But Amos, being Amos, picked warrior-thug, and the elf was a 2-hour merchant/outdoorsman. Amos PKed Malik and now has another 1000 sids, 10 shards of flint, and a small piece of diamond. He deposits 800.

His new balance: 1150, no fees.

He can keep withdrawing and depositing, with no fees, as long as his balance doesn't reach 2000.

Correct?
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Nyr on August 09, 2015, 06:13:18 PM
That is correct.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: musashi on August 09, 2015, 07:16:23 PM
While I would prefer the fees to be steeper on the poor and have the whole system be regressive instead of progressive to better reflect the corruption of the game world, my main concern with the first draft (nobles and templar being hit hardest) has been totally addressed. I'm happy enough.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: bardlyone on August 09, 2015, 10:31:49 PM
I didn't like the other system but was kind of indifferent to it. This new setup is a major improvement.

*two thumbs up*
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Dar on August 10, 2015, 12:27:00 AM
Heya.

Havent played for ages. But check on the beloved Arm every so often.  Quick question. In your example. What will happen if the person does this.

withdraw 50000 coins

balance

Banker says, "You have zero coins in your balance, you pay nothing for our services."

deposit 50000

Balance says, " ... We'll let 2000 go in for free, but the other 48000 coins are going to be charged."

or

Banker says, "50000 have been deposited. If you deposit more, you will be charged"

inventory

100000 coins.

withdraw 50000 coins

Banker says, "You have zero coins in your balance, you pay nothing for our services."

deposit 150000 coins

Banker says, "150000 coins have been deposited. If you deposit more, you will be charged"


Sorry, I'm too lazy to make the syntax look clean and neat, plus I forgot how to do it proper. But I hope my question is clear?

Point is ... if I withdraw everything and then redeposit from zero, will I be charged zero?
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Jingo on August 10, 2015, 12:40:08 AM
All we need now are death panels.

#thanksnyr
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Suhuy on August 10, 2015, 12:58:33 AM
I'm actually in favor of nobles having to pay something for banking services, just not a sum so astronomical it makes them favor their bedrooms over Nenyuk. Though it could be argued that from an OOC perspective, nobles are meant to drive plots with their money and any hindrance will be an OOC distraction. So I guess whatever works, really.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: musashi on August 10, 2015, 03:04:00 AM
Eh, I'm comfortable with the idea that a Great Merchant House has to bow down to the ruling political class.

If there was ever a Nenyuk PC I think the way in which they ought service the nobles and templars would be through arranging loans for projects rather than banking fees.

That would be a really cool political role.  8)
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Nyr on August 10, 2015, 08:19:58 AM
Point is ... if I withdraw everything and then redeposit from zero, will I be charged zero?

Quote
-Minimum deposit required when fee is in effect (2,000 or more combined value of deposit + balance)

Deposit + balance, so no.  If you are eligible to be charged a fee (whether your account IS at that amount or WILL BE at that amount with your deposit), you will be charged a fee.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: frankjacoby on August 10, 2015, 11:23:09 AM
Soooooo, when does interest, the obvious next step get implemented?
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Molten Heart on August 10, 2015, 12:06:23 PM
I'm guessing interest will arrive some time after Nenyuk begins making standardized loans to commoners. So.... Probably not ever.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Norcal on August 10, 2015, 08:33:19 PM
I like this system much better than the first one. And you fixed both the concerns I had.  Well done Staff!
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: FantasyWriter on August 10, 2015, 11:42:07 PM
Wait... you guys actually USE Nenyuk? I generally keep all my wealth adding up in my diamond-studded, throne built of viscous black bricks as I overlook the purple-salt-preserved heads of my contract-killed enemies.

What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: musashi on August 10, 2015, 11:57:43 PM
Wait... you guys actually USE Nenyuk? I generally keep all my wealth adding up in my diamond-studded, throne built of viscous black bricks as I overlook the purple-salt-preserved heads of my contract-killed enemies.

What am I doing wrong?

You're not having sex with the heads, for one.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Clearsighted on August 11, 2015, 07:43:22 PM
What am I, a fucking half-giant, maaan?

I have to admit, I've been using the bank less.  I caught myself carrying around two large the other day, just willy nilly.  I wasn't sure this was a bad thing for the game, though.  :P

It was a good thing, but the pitchfork-carrying masses won the day. Back to shoving all my sids in the bank!
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Bogre on August 11, 2015, 08:14:13 PM
I still think it would have been great if:

The dark-haired Nenyuki agent looks at you and says,
"That's cute."
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: AdamBlue on August 12, 2015, 07:34:43 AM
I just realized that nobles can now provide a valuable service for wealthy independent merchants...free banking.

Ha, I'm reminded of the guy from the Professional who keeps all of Leon's money "safe" for him.

I fucking loved the Professional.

Also, this change is better.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Desertman on August 28, 2015, 03:53:29 PM
This has been in a few weeks and I just wanted to chime in and say I have had it affect how I play personally.

I do find myself making decisions about my money that I never would have even put thought into in the past. What was once a completely mindless process now has me making decisions on an IC level about how best to do things. I even take into consideration the ramifications of my actions when stacked against other PC's that I know who may have a reason to react to my decisions.

I like it and I think it's working more or less as intended.

I look forward to where this is going in the future.
Title: Re: Banking Changes 2: Elkran Boogaloo
Post by: Kronibas on January 19, 2016, 03:46:41 PM
If there was ever a Nenyuk PC

I played one over ten years ago, when I was just a little boy.