A long while back the Trap skill was removed. Well for the sake of spicing things, why not add it back with a bit of a twist!
I present to you Needle Traps:
In real life authorities constantly have to deal with issues of criminals affixing needles and razors to clothing or bags for the specific intention of harming them when they perform a search. Every police officer is trained how to specifically pat down and search people in order to not be injured by such devices.
use trap bag
>Ouch! you poke yourself trying to get the needle into a seam.
es trap
>You hold your small needle trap.
use trap bag
>You successful trap a smelly large bag.
l in bag
>In a smelly large bag (inventory) :
a smelly coil of feces
a couple puce-hued pieces of shit
you notice: a small needle trap.
So the skill would allow pickpockets and burglars to place small little traps in a pack. They would be invisible without the trap skill, or them being used(stabbing someone) once. There could be multiple effects.
-Small amounts of damage (3-7).
-Forcing someone to drop everything in their inventory(including the trapped bag, so the person being searched could grab it and run off).
-Anti-theft countermeasure. It will give them away if they try to steal something from the bag. Possibly stop the attempt altogether.
-Poison delivery.
Safely getting items(or the trap itself) would require the trap skill or slight of hand. If a bag/pack is emptied out the trap stays in, but the contents fall out, giving militia a pretty simply get-around.
Oh, I'm down.
Awesome idea! +1
This is beautiful and needs to have an apartment you just rented filled with that shit and you'd be all, Oh... shit.
Also, pissing Templars off in ways not involving just words.
Also room for the possibility to >Plant trap noble's satchel
Ever since traps were removed I've been thinking about them too. Particularly what really useful function they could serve? You know sometimes people in this game walk from one place to the other without even stopping. I always wished there was some way of slowing a person down.
I do like the needle idea. I don't know how realistic this would be but I'm imagine something like this:
You attempt to trap room using a sharp long obsidian nail.
You carefully wedge the nail into the ground, with a sharp spike pointing upwards dangerously.
Depending on your skill, the first person walking in would have a good chance to step on the needle/nail, making them fall and lagging them severely. Damage would be minimal if any but they would end up sitting/resting. The needle/nail could be poisoned as well. The trap would restricted to indoors rooms like in apartment halls, apartments or such. Lagging the person long enough for you to kill them before they log out or robbing them in the hall as they head to their apartment. It would require patience but as the skill suggests it would be basically a trap, if they step on it you win, if they don't well you are probably hidden out of sight anyways. The wilderness version of it would work in the desert and basically work on mounts, the mount walking into the room, stepping into a trap, knocking their rider off before running off and with the right poison, potentially killing it too after it stops randomly several rooms away.
So basically my version of trap would allow a player to slow people down long enough to interaction with them in some way. Again not sure how realistic it is, but that's what I wish its function basically was
Trap bags with spiders and scorpions.
Trap doors with falling objects.
Trap outdoor rooms with pitfalls.
Trap the forest with spring type traps, using suggested foilage and rope.
Trap animals so they can't run.
Trap pet objects.
Yes, trap has plenty of non flash powder uses that should be utilized.
Trap could be counteracted by 'Search' (which is an under utilized skill as it is). Much in the same way Hide is counteracted by Scan. If you laid the trap yourself, you could check what traps you laid by using >trap (object)
Trap could allow a few dozen things, not involving flash powder.
>pull hair
You tug out a piece of your hair.
>trap door hair
You wet part of the doorframe with your saliva, and lay the hair across it.
>trap door
You stuck some hair across the doorframe.
--
You come back later, and check and see if anyone's been in while you've been away...
>trap door
You stuck some hair across the doorframe.
or
A piece of hair is sticking away from the doorframe.
Huh, seems you're in the clear. Or are you? If the trap wasn't successful, it may provide a false negative, or a false positive.
----
>poison needle grishen
You coat the needle with a dose of grishen.
>trap backpack grishen
You lay the needle across the clasp of the backpack.
>close backpack
You close the backpack.
---
>trap door wedge
You jam a wedge under the door
---
>trap door lockpick
You jam the lock pick in the door and break it off.
---
Yesss.... Yessssss. All of this I want it all.
I have to go change my underwear now.
>trap mount knife
Success:
You slice the reins on the mount's saddle.
(Next Person to ride it gets a message about the reins being cut, and has a huge chance of being kicked from the mount).
Failure:
You slice the reins on the mount's saddle.
(Next Person to ride it gets a message about the reins being cut, but they noticed before it became a problem.)
If done in a populated area, chance of Crime Code kicking in. If in unpopulated area/clan area, smaller chance.
---
skill TrapMaking
>craft bone
You could make a small bone snare
(Use Defense/Dodging skill to avoid a snare when entering a room. Otherwise, create a large delay for the target. Critical fail to escape requires target to 'break snare', which uses the subdue code to escape. Drops to the room as hidden, and can be found by 'Search'.)
>craft bone
You could make a doorframe catch
>craft bone
You could make a small bone lever
>craft catch lever
You could craft a drop catch trap
>put vial trap
You put a vial of acid/poison into the trap.
(When door is opened, lever scoots a container's contents over the first person to enter.)
---
craft numut 2.numut 3.numut
You lash the rope together and make a numut swing cage
craft bone into trigger pin
You craft a trigger pin
>trap branch
You find a suitable branch and pull it down.
>trap pin cage
You pull a branch down, tie it with some rope, and set a cage.
(Next person to walk into the room must make a defense/subdue/dodge check to avoid the trigger pin. If sneaking into the room, 100% does not set off pin. If goes visible after that, sets off pin the same way. Search reveals the pin, if successful. If failure, target is peraine-incapacitated for 1 hour IG (10 RL Minutes). After that, they can attempt to break the 'subdue attempt' and suffer moderate stun/health damage from the drop).
---
>trap branch
You find a suitable branch and pull it down.
>trap branch stone
You affix a stone to the end of the branch.
>trap branch rope
You affix a rope to the end of the branch
>trap branch trigger
You set the trigger pin.
(Next person to walk into the room must make a defense/subdue/dodge check to avoid the trigger pin. If sneaking into the room, 100% does not set off pin. If goes visible after that, sets off pin the same way. Search reveals the pin, if successful. If they fail, a branch hits them in the chest, knocking them prone, and doing massive stun damage. Can only be done in certain wilderness rooms).
What about hunting traps and the like too? Not just trapping doors and bags and stuff, but trapping area's like a real hunter would.
Traps for Snaring. (sit/rest)
Pit traps. (Damage)
Swinging log traps. (massive stun, probably only in the forest)
...
Snake traps?
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 17, 2014, 01:04:32 PM
Traps for Snaring. (sit/rest)
Pit traps. (Damage)
Swinging log traps. (massive stun, probably only in the forest)
...
Snake traps?
Pit o' snakes. *grins* Sooo cool.
Trapping for Rangers might be just too much though...They're already pretty grand as a skill-set.
Quote from: Reiloth on July 17, 2014, 03:09:59 PM
Trapping for Rangers might be just too much though...They're already pretty grand as a skill-set.
So what. The more the merrier. We can keep adding skills to the other classes to make up for that ;)
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 17, 2014, 03:13:40 PM
So what. The more the merrier. We can keep adding skills to the other classes to make up for that ;)
+1
Wouldn't mind a sub guild dedicated to trapping and not add it to ranger.
How about this:
Trapping skill would be needed to set up indoor city traps since they would be more delicate, hidden and often contain poison. However at the highest levels of the skill trap-making, a person would be able to make large traps that would be useful against mounts. These traps would be set in the wilderness and break after one use, they would be visible by people on foot, and easily destroyed by them too but if you ride into the room riding a mount, they could be set off. The idea being that the snares would trip mounts making the rider fall off and lagging them. They can be poisoned too, potentially killing the mount, or causing the mount to run away from anything (a new fear poison mentioned in the other thread).
In this way it doesn't need to be a skill rangers receive but at the same time the trap-making skill would eventually at its highest levels benefit any character that wishes to buy these (most likely very illegal) traps, so any character can still benefit from knowing an assassin or pickpocket. I also think trapping skill (which would be wisdom-based) would make the indoor hidden traps visible (if you skill/stat is greater then that the skill/stat of the person setting it) and if you can see it, you shouldn't set it off, and allow you to disarm them if need be, not really search (though its a nice idea).
Quote from: Dresan on July 17, 2014, 10:06:16 PM
How about this:
Trapping skill would be needed to set up indoor city traps since they would be more delicate, hidden and often contain poison. However at the highest levels of the skill trap-making, a person would be able to make large traps that would be useful against mounts. These traps would be set in the wilderness and break after one use, they would be visible by people on foot, and easily destroyed by them too but if you ride into the room riding a mount, they could be set off. The idea being that the snares would trip mounts making the rider fall off and lagging them. They can be poisoned too, potentially killing the mount, or causing the mount to run away from anything (a new fear poison mentioned in the other thread).
In this way it doesn't need to be a skill rangers receive but at the same time the trap-making skill would eventually at its highest levels benefit any character that wishes to buy these (most likely very illegal) traps, so any character can still benefit from knowing an assassin or pickpocket. I also think trapping skill (which would be wisdom-based) would make the indoor hidden traps visible (if you skill/stat is greater then that the skill/stat of the person setting it) and if you can see it, you shouldn't set it off, and allow you to disarm them if need be, not really search (though its a nice idea).
I was just thinking of traps a hunger could use to you know... trap prey. Not thinking of things for people or people riding mounts, though they could be considered prey as well.
Hunters using traps... maybe. But in my experience animals don't move around TOO much on their own (depending on the area) for it to be like "trap snare" and then come back later to an angry goudra. I think it'd be NEAT to flesh it out more, but really... stalking prey and dropping an arrow into them like a sniper is pretty damned rewarding.
City based traps, to me, are somewhat similar. How do you set up a trap for that one person, or particular type of person, with soldiers that auto-wander and NPCs that never move? Door and Container Traps, maybe, to make it similar to the old code. Mild damage, ability to poison the obsidian or pymlithe nail at suuuuuuuuuper high levels (maybe forcing some interaction with someone with the poison skill). Even then though, thats a kind of engineering Zalanthas might not even really have. Maybe make it more into a crafting skill, a la "craft obsidian into large caltrops" which, when left of the ground have a chance to cause minor damage but a large amount of lag. Good for running OR waiting. Or maybe "craft obsidian 2.obsidian 3.obsidian plank into spike strip" that can be seen a room away, but on entering causes moderate damage to mounts or unmounted mobiles. I'm sure people can come up with better options, but I think making trap into a craft skill with unique flags or scripted uses might be more interesting.
I don't really think people need any help killing npc animals, I too feel the tools we currently have are efficient enough.
In my mind these wilderness snares would last an IC day before naturally fall apart becoming disarmed, this is just a way to prevent people from setting them up just to annoy others. They would last long enough for a couple of bushy bearded raiders to set them up in on a well traveled path in the wilderness before going out in a separate direction and just sitting down to watch two room away to see if they gets lucky that day. Hopefully they trip the mount of a lone hunter rather then a kuraci sergeant leading his entire unit on patrol.
City traps could have similar applications, most of them would work indoors, not out in the street with all the vnpc and npc wandering around. You could potentially use them offensively, setting them up outside or inside the apartment of a target, or maybe the halls hoping to see if you catch anyone randomly. However they could be used defensively too. You are breaking into a large apartment, why not set up a trap just at the entrance inside the place in case the owner comes back, giving you time get out and make a get away. You are about to kill someone at a distance attacking from inside a building or you are inside a building, then yeah I can see a trap like caltrops coming in handy. As you are sniping someone, anyone running into the room trying to stop you or trying to get a look at you will be tripped and lagged, allowing you to finish the job before running away. Those type of traps would not last long an IC hour or two at the most due to the fact more then just PC are probably setting them off. Still i think they would be useful especially if different traps worked in different places and lasted different amounts of time.
I love the ideas here I really do. Honestly trapping needs to make a return for the sneakier classes as they are somewhat underwhelming and imo limited as opposed to other guilds.
As for giving Rangers more skills please no. They do have enough all ready and if they would like a trap they can buy one.
I don't know, "sneakier" classes keep getting lots of love. Now able to open things without being seen and all. Rangers haven't had anything new in a long time. And as primarily hunters if anyone should have a trap skill it should be rangers.
Staff might already have plans for trap...
Quote from: Nyr on March 06, 2013, 12:52:49 PM
Both of these have been removed from the game and both helpfiles have been modified. We do have plans to revamp trap in the future, but its previous implementation relied on flash powder, which (in practice) did far more damage than the lore surrounding it indicated.
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?topic=45109.0 (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?topic=45109.0)
I love some of the ideas being discussed here, though. Poisonous needle traps and hidden obsidian razorblades sounds very Zalanthas.
Yeah, if anything like this were to go in, I would definitely not want rangers to get more things freely added to their arsenal.
If rangers had trap, magickers would go extinct.
make traps that lure dangerous creatures?
trap tree kryl.meat
Poor adventurer as arrived from the south
poor adventurer picks a rare fruit from the tree
A KRYL SWARM CHARGES IN FROM THE NORTH!
idk. something like this would be interesting.
I have a feeling that would kill more newbs than it would anyone else.
Quote from: Yummri on July 19, 2014, 07:37:54 PM
I have a feeling that would kill more newbs than it would anyone else.
Well. The known is a dangerous place. ;)
Hide, sneak and scan have city/outdoor versions, so I imagine trap could as well.
Quote from: Patuk on July 19, 2014, 10:18:23 PM
Hide, sneak and scan have city/outdoor versions, so I imagine trap could as well.
It would be a great idea. Say, for example, 'trap ground spikes'. If you fall down into that room you have a percentile chance of hitting the spikes and being dealt extra falling damage based on the trap level of the player that set it up.
I know people wouldn't set a trap in a city-state main thoroughfare in the middle of the day the same way that a gicker wouldn't start creating lightbulbs in the Gaj but, just as a common-sense thing, maybe make it illegal to set traps and be seen doing it inside a city, making quiet nighttime in a deserted place literally the only way to set a trap outside in the walls just like real life, the way I imagine lockpicks are also illegal.
+1 to this thread. Anything to make our PC's lives more hazardous and uncertain is A great idea in my opinion
Oh, so you think its safe to reach into your own pack? SLICE! Think again!
Quote from: WanderingOoze on July 20, 2014, 04:05:53 AM
+1 to this thread. Anything to make our PC's lives more hazardous and uncertain is A great idea in my opinion
Oh, so you think its safe to reach into your own pack? SLICE! Think again!
In my mind, especially in a legal-crime place like Tuluk, hiring those dastardly Shadow Artists to plan razor-sharp obsidian flakes in people's coin-purses or belts would be pretty interesting. Perhaps a bit brutal, but a great message for a free-spending indie Merchant.
Shit yeah... bring back traps!
I wasn't around at this time. Why was traps removed?
because staff decided that bombs really made little sense in this game world.
Yeah. I was actually a little surprised when I found out bombs existed IG.
It would be awesome to se a return soon. Traps would add a lot of flavour to this game.
It would be cool if you could trap a lock. Say a door that way anyone who tried to pick it would get a neat surprise unless they detected it.(which shouldn't be easy) Or a chance on agility/wisdom to avoid it.
Or activated using a key which should be much harder to set. Could be fun!
It could become retroactively a bronze age, pre this fucking era thing back when halberds and wagons were invented and kept by the powerful as defiling started being mad crazy and destroying progress. The Chinese had gunpowder for a long time, and they could deal with it with few casualties, or many, depending on their purpose.
They should just make it simply not available for common people, you know those rangers who can kill scorpions for their scorpion powder or shit and all the rare ingredients they would need, selling to the right person, having enough left over to protect themselves if they aren't already the Kadian First Hunter and becoming filthy rich. Just make it a clan craft, or have it only legally available to particular folks. That way you can still get that corporal who's disenchanted with life and decides to sneak powder out of the special leaders room and try to kill somebody with it--- with lots of proper emoting of course. I don't know if both militia clans have special leader rooms.
Nope. Fuck gunpowder, or flash powder, even if it's technically not the same thing. There is plenty of opportunity fir traps without having to add wildly anachronistic technology to the game, nevermind technology that the playerbase seems incapable of handling well.
Quote from: Patuk on July 22, 2014, 02:09:59 AM
Nope. Fuck gunpowder, or flash powder, even if it's technically not the same thing. There is plenty of opportunity fir traps without having to add wildly anachronistic technology to the game, nevermind technology that the playerbase seems incapable of handling well.
if them powders are brought back in, i shall mastercraft the first wooden cannons! DOWN WITH THE WALLS!
I didn't read a single word in this entire thread. Just the title.
I'm just posting this because I feel it is needed.
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100309031800/darkheresy/images/0/0c/Its_a_trap.jpg)
Quote from: Cabooze on July 22, 2014, 04:46:15 AM
Quote from: Patuk on July 22, 2014, 02:09:59 AM
Nope. Fuck gunpowder, or flash powder, even if it's technically not the same thing. There is plenty of opportunity fir traps without having to add wildly anachronistic technology to the game, nevermind technology that the playerbase seems incapable of handling well.
if them powders are brought back in, i shall mastercraft the first wooden cannons! DOWN WITH THE WALLS!
Cabooze, goddammit, use the zalanthan term, 'giant's muket'
Frankly, I don't think an explosive powder is anachronistic by any sense, however the fact that it kept getting turned into what is essentially gunpowder and dynamite, I think it kept giving a negative connotation. If we have gunpowder, I want to make guns. If we have bombs, I want to blow up buildings. Why can't I just deposit a bunch of flash powder into a pot and explode it on main street?
Nevermind the fact that the coding was so wonky, that it took some pretty extreme shit to get the skill to any measureable degree of "not blowing myself up" that people had to have WAY too much access to something WAY too supposedly rare.
Aren't there still references in certain frequently traveled rooms about the use of explosives
I never liked the idea of flash powder in game. It never seemed to "fit" the world for me personally.
I do like the idea of traps.
Things like contact poison for example.
Loaded crossbow traps.
Cord suspension inner-lock needle traps.
Snares.
Pits.
So on and so forth. That's what I can come up with off the top of my head in under 45 seconds of thought. Given some time and any hope any of it would actually ever get into game, (extremely unlikely) I could probably come up with a lot more in the way of feasible "Zalanthan" traps.
I see Zalanthas having the technology level of earth around the year 0. I find that too recent already, as earth has actual metal, but let us assume Zalanthas has that level of technology.
A bigass sewer like in Allanak would be hard, but feasible.
A huge fucking pyramid would take a while, but could be done.
Paper, and smoking? Anachronistic, but not so harmful; nobody can write anyway, and you could just as easily let people smoke up leaves or whatever.
Gunpowder is where I draw the line. Fuck it. Not only was gunpowder invented well past times with Zalanthan technology, it carries destructive potential to an enormous degree. It holds no place in this world. It opens up plots not at all at home in Zalanthas. Good riddance is all I have to say about flash powder.
I'm good with flash powder being gone, althought I honestly don't have a problem with it existing in a light-show sort of way, which honestly is the only way it should ever have been implemented. In fact, what flash powder should have done is remained, and been used in a trap to blind you.
But I certianly want to see traps brought back, and there are a ton of really cool ways that traps could be used, from catching spider objects that you could have in a cage, to catching live NPC beasts, from poisoning to direct injury and status and skill effecting results, and so many other ways.
I'm actually really down with "flash" powder causing temporary blindness (easier to steal from someone when they can't even see you).
Or at master level, loaded crossbow traps (because HONESTLY, who uses crossbows?) that can be set up.
I'd assume, even a Master trap setter wouldn't be One Hit Killing anyone, but it'd be nice to set up a "stun" trap in your apartment, and wait in the bedroom for some dumbass trying to break in.
Or even the one-time damage razor blades in a container.
Or caltrops.
But all of these are tough, because they COULD just be a "trap (crafting)" skill, or trap could be the actual PLACING of the purchaseable/craftable trap objects, with the skill check being you setting it off in your face... it'd be a huge undertaking to program in just the crafting recipes, skillchecks, balances, and scripting for these unique objects.
Quote from: Desertman on July 22, 2014, 05:00:13 PM
I never liked the idea of flash powder in game. It never seemed to "fit" the world for me personally.
I do like the idea of traps.
Things like contact poison for example.
Loaded crossbow traps.
Cord suspension inner-lock needle traps.
Snares.
Pits.
So on and so forth. That's what I can come up with off the top of my head in under 45 seconds of thought. Given some time and any hope any of it would actually ever get into game, (extremely unlikely) I could probably come up with a lot more in the way of feasible "Zalanthan" traps.
It was an awesome defense system against burglars. It was like a Zalanthan Christmas when you came back to your apartment to see that someone opened your flash powder bag.
What I liked about trap (though I was never really a fan of flash powder fitting into the universe, and I am glad to see it gone) is that it allowed for passive assassination attempts. If your 'assassin/burglar' wasn't fantastic at combat, they could still figure out a way to 'get the guy'. It was still pretty risky (Try failing a trap attempt), but I also think it got a little silly when you'd find bag-bombs everywhere in the Labyrinth.
I think by expanding the utility of the skill, it could fit more functionally within the classes and ICly within the game. Relying too heavily on flash powder was ultimately trap's achilles heel.
It would also be based on a 'skill' system rather than guilds, but were it ever to be that way in the "Ideal World", Rangers or Assassins or anyone with the right amount of skill points could purchase the skill group 'trap' and make either wilderness traps, or city traps, based on their specialization.
Quote from: Dresan on July 17, 2014, 05:22:21 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 17, 2014, 03:13:40 PM
So what. The more the merrier. We can keep adding skills to the other classes to make up for that ;)
+1
And risk imbalancing the entire game, for the sake of traps?
I love the idea, not the entire game-rework though.
Quote from: Skeeter on July 27, 2014, 08:21:50 AM
Quote from: Dresan on July 17, 2014, 05:22:21 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 17, 2014, 03:13:40 PM
So what. The more the merrier. We can keep adding skills to the other classes to make up for that ;)
+1
And risk imbalancing the entire game, for the sake of traps?
I love the idea, not the entire game-rework though.
You think the game is balanced?
The game is far from balanced, but Rangers are one of the better mundane classes as is (if not the best, depending who you ask). I think adding another skill as an afterthought of 'well rangers should have this anyways' isn't excellent at the get go. Maybe an extended sub guild (Trapper) would make up for the loss 100% rangers would feel at not being able to make traps.