QuoteOoh...You mean like making your pc have the sdesc...The brown-haired man...and then making him a natorious sorcerer?
Yeah, I have to agree with you, that is pretty bad.
From Desertman in another thread.
To avoid potentially derailing, I'd like to start a topic on this. Without further ado...
What the hell's wrong with that? If I wanted to make an average brown-haired Amos with a four-line description and make him a sorcerer, what's the problem? I like short, concise, to-the-point descriptions.
Now, I'm not advocating making a "tall, muscular man" sorcerer, because that's just a bit straddling the proverbial OOC line (since the 'tall, muscular man' sdesc is so beheld as 'the average description,' not because tall muscular men can't be sorcerers).
On the same line, if I have "the slender, black-haired elf" and he turns out to be a Nilazi, what's wrong with that? There's no stipulation that sorcerers have to have 15-line descriptions or exploding thesaurus emotes.
Ummm dude...there is a big OOC reference to "the brown-haired man" there that I dont think you got.
But that does bring up a new topic...
For a while we had an influx of shady rinthers who chose animal names as alias's, so you couldnt find thier minds via the Way by using just thier names.
Vestric, Serpent, Scrab, ect...
I dont blame them.
Sure its kind of OOC, but I never did like the concept of finding someone's mind that you have never met by just using thier name.
I wish there was code in place to prevent you from "Contacting" someone if you havent actually been in the same room as them before to make yourself "familiar" with thier minds.
It always bothered me to see...
The blue-eyed man says in sirihish, "His name is John, see if you can find his mind to recruit you."
The elf nods.
The elf says in sirihish, "I got his mind, thanks."
Its like...Wow, you heard the name John and suddenly you can locate his mind out of hundreds of millions of other minds in the world.
For sdescs, I don't think there's anything wrong with picking something simple if your character truly is physically unremarkable.
However, similar to how I feel about Desertman's anti-raiding strategy, I feel that writing a main description of a much lower quality than you are capable of for the purposes of making people OOCly underestimate your character is just as bad as people estimating characters by the quality of their descriptions in the first place. Two wrongs not making a right, and all.
I do agree with him that some past 'rinthers have gone by borderline OOCly-exploitive aliases.
The whole practice of using aliases because there may be a variety of coded advantages to doing so is really, really bad. And yet it seems like almost everyone does it. I always feel like I must be the odd one out when my characters go around handing out their real names rather than using aliases.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 04:42:14 PM
The whole practice of using aliases because there may be a variety of unintentional coded advantages to doing so is really, really bad. And yet it seems like almost everyone does it. I always feel like I must be the odd one out when my characters go around handing out their real names rather than using aliases.
There. Fixed. There ARE some ways that things are coded ON PURPOSE in this arena.
Quote from: Tisiphone on July 17, 2008, 04:46:10 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 04:42:14 PM
The whole practice of using aliases because there may be a variety of unintentional coded advantages to doing so is really, really bad. And yet it seems like almost everyone does it. I always feel like I must be the odd one out when my characters go around handing out their real names rather than using aliases.
There. Fixed. There ARE some ways that things are coded ON PURPOSE in this arena.
It's not fixed. Just because some of those things are intentionally coded shouldn't mean that the vast majority of characters somehow have experience with this and thus have never told anyone their real name.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 04:52:24 PM
It's not fixed. Just because some of those things are intentionally coded shouldn't mean that the vast majority of characters somehow have experience with this and thus have never told anyone their real name.
I dunno...with most humanoids using the Way on a regular basis, wouldn't they know that a person could be contacted by his regular name but not by an alias?
I actually really like Desertman's idea. I get sick and tired of jackasses contacting then ceasing for the soul purpose of getting my sdesc. The idea makes sense.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on July 17, 2008, 05:00:31 PM
I dunno...with most humanoids using the Way on a regular basis, wouldn't they know that a person could be contacted by his regular name but not by an alias?
Except that it is possible to contact anyone with any keyword that's on their character. I'm talking about use of a keyworded alias in place of a real name.
Using some alias that's not even a keyword, I would see that as total OOC abuse, honestly. That's just entirely trying to get around the code, since no one can target you in any way, for anything, with a non-keyword alias.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 05:03:02 PM
Using some alias that's not even a keyword, I would see that as total OOC abuse, honestly. That's just entirely trying to get around the code, since no one can target you in any way, for anything, with a non-keyword alias.
Oh, gotcha. I agree.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 04:42:14 PM
The whole practice of using aliases because there may be a variety of coded advantages to doing so is really, really bad. And yet it seems like almost everyone does it. I always feel like I must be the odd one out when my characters go around handing out their real names rather than using aliases.
I disagree. I think that in the scope of the world there are far larger problems than twinking.
Hell, I think that even in the scope of the --game-- there are far greater problems than twinking.
Twinking is an inevitable consequence of a video-game. Some people are going to exploit the underlying "physics" of the game world.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 05:03:02 PM
Using some alias that's not even a keyword, I would see that as total OOC abuse, honestly. That's just entirely trying to get around the code, since no one can target you in any way, for anything, with a non-keyword alias.
I don't necessarily agree, and would point out that this statement opens up another hot-thread topic. However, I don't think this is something we can argue so much as request a staff position. It depends on how the Way works.
Quote from: Tisiphone on July 17, 2008, 06:17:25 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 05:03:02 PM
Using some alias that's not even a keyword, I would see that as total OOC abuse, honestly. That's just entirely trying to get around the code, since no one can target you in any way, for anything, with a non-keyword alias.
I don't necessarily agree, and would point out that this statement opens up another hot-thread topic. However, I don't think this is something we can argue so much as request a staff position. It depends on how the Way works.
It doesn't depend on Way mechanics at all. If someone is using a non-keyword alias, you can't target them using that alias, period. If they're also just one hooded figure out of a few in the room, or otherwise have some kind of really common keywords going on in all you can see of their keywords, then that's an OOC problem...not an IC one. They're relying on the way the code works with keywords to disadvantage other players, which is abusive. For the most part, as Moe mentioned, I've only seen this type of strategy from 'rinthi characters.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
It doesn't depend on Way mechanics at all. If someone is using a non-keyword alias, you can't target them using that alias, period. If they're also just one hooded figure out of a few in the room, or otherwise have some kind of really common keywords going on in all you can see of their keywords, then that's an OOC problem...not an IC one. They're relying on the way the code works with keywords to disadvantage other players, which is abusive. For the most part, as Moe mentioned, I've only seen this type of strategy from 'rinthi characters.
Then again, they're only doing this to avoid sdesc sniffing, which relies on the way the code works with keywords to advantage themselves, which is abusive.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 04:42:14 PM
The whole practice of using aliases because there may be a variety of coded advantages to doing so is really, really bad. And yet it seems like almost everyone does it. I always feel like I must be the odd one out when my characters go around handing out their real names rather than using aliases.
You are not the odd man out, I tend to go with my real name or a nickname (Never tend to do nicknames unless desert elf really). That I add to my keywords, WHICH lets you contact me even if my nickname is Bubblegum.
Fix to quote the right thing.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on July 17, 2008, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
It doesn't depend on Way mechanics at all. If someone is using a non-keyword alias, you can't target them using that alias, period. If they're also just one hooded figure out of a few in the room, or otherwise have some kind of really common keywords going on in all you can see of their keywords, then that's an OOC problem...not an IC one. They're relying on the way the code works with keywords to disadvantage other players, which is abusive. For the most part, as Moe mentioned, I've only seen this type of strategy from 'rinthi characters.
Then again, they're only doing this to avoid sdesc sniffing, which relies on the way the code works with keywords to advantage themselves, which is abusive.
Two wrongs never make a right.
Personally, I think people that use the uberimaginative-sdesc, withlettersalloverthekeyboard-haired men to be abusing the code than people that use animal aliases. When in a pinch, I'm gonna fucking mispell that shit when my adrenaline is pumping. Afterwords, I don't remember what Cerulean means, and I'm not going to remember a word I've never heard. Not to mention that they won't use that word in their main description, so I can't fucking figure out that when they have aqua in their description, they really have cerulean in their sdesc.
It is only natural to call people an animal name if they resemble that name. Serpent was a slick mother fucker, for sure. Vestric was flighty. Scrab was hard headed. Gortok was a rough sumbitch. Tembo was a fierce sumbitch. Durrit, rat, spider, butcher, kank, etc.. I've known all of these characters and everytime, they usually had a personality that resembled the beast they were named after in some way.
Quote from: Delstro on July 17, 2008, 09:09:48 PM
Personally, I think people that use the uberimaginative-sdesc, withlettersalloverthekeyboard-haired men to be abusing the code than people that use animal aliases. When in a pinch, I'm gonna fucking mispell that shit when my adrenaline is pumping. Afterwords, I don't remember what Cerulean means, and I'm not going to remember a word I've never heard. Not to mention that they won't use that word in their main description, so I can't fucking figure out that when they have aqua in their description, they really have cerulean in their sdesc.
It is only natural to call people an animal name if they resemble that name. Serpent was a slick mother fucker, for sure. Vestric was flighty. Scrab was hard headed. Gortok was a rough sumbitch. Tembo was a fierce sumbitch. Durrit, rat, spider, butcher, kank, etc.. I've known all of these characters and everytime, they usually had a personality that resembled the beast they were named after in some way.
At the risk of derailing this shit, Serpent was an awesome motherfucker. Best Rinther ever.
Some of the most memorable characters I've ever met have been fairly lackluster in the sdesc and mdesc department.
I've seen people with sdescs like... (not exact) the short, dark-haired man; the brown-haired man; the tall, muscular man (there was one that wasn't a twink... or a noob); the short, black-haired man. The blonde-haired man, and I've never really noticed this to be a problem.
I don't care if they are a sorcerer. Just because someone is a sorcerer, or a psionic, or an uber-powerful nilazi, doesn't mean they will necessarily look unlike the common man you never suspect of anything.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 05:03:02 PM
Using some alias that's not even a keyword, I would see that as total OOC abuse, honestly. That's just entirely trying to get around the code, since no one can target you in any way, for anything, with a non-keyword alias.
You don't even have to -have- an alias as a keyword, so why is having one that makes you not target able bad?
Quote from: Delstro on July 17, 2008, 09:09:48 PM
Personally, I think people that use the uberimaginative-sdesc, withlettersalloverthekeyboard-haired men to be abusing the code than people that use animal aliases. When in a pinch, I'm gonna fucking mispell that shit when my adrenaline is pumping.
Just a tip in case you use a client that features it. After using zMUD/CMUD for the last decade+ I found out about six months back that they have tab completion. When someone has a word I don't feel like typing, for instance your example cerulean, I can type cer or ceru then hit tab and it completes it for me.
Also, I find nothing wrong with that. People want unique sdesc and I know I for one put ALOT of time in mine. I find it's the sexiest part of my character.
Brandon
I think by "alias" they don't mean the game command alias, or a game client alias. I think they mean alias as in its usual meaning: an alternative name that your character calls himself to certain people, and not to others.
Like a guy whose real name is John Smith, but tells the girl he wants to impress his name is Pierre Jesuis. Pierre Jesuis would be his alias. And in the game, if he doesn't use the addkeyword command to make sure that Pierre Jesuis is added as actual keywords, then the girl he wants to impress won't be able to profess her undying love to him, because she'll keep trying to type tell pierre and keep coming up with an error. Because according to the game code, there is no Pierre in the room.
Edited to add: Brandon makes sexy sdescs.
Tab completion is sexy.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on July 17, 2008, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
It doesn't depend on Way mechanics at all. If someone is using a non-keyword alias, you can't target them using that alias, period. If they're also just one hooded figure out of a few in the room, or otherwise have some kind of really common keywords going on in all you can see of their keywords, then that's an OOC problem...not an IC one. They're relying on the way the code works with keywords to disadvantage other players, which is abusive. For the most part, as Moe mentioned, I've only seen this type of strategy from 'rinthi characters.
Then again, they're only doing this to avoid sdesc sniffing, which relies on the way the code works with keywords to advantage themselves, which is abusive.
Even dressed up with the best of rationalizations, this is still pretty obviously code abuse, IMHO.
Quote from: flurry on July 17, 2008, 10:46:53 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on July 17, 2008, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: Gimfalisette on July 17, 2008, 06:30:26 PM
It doesn't depend on Way mechanics at all. If someone is using a non-keyword alias, you can't target them using that alias, period. If they're also just one hooded figure out of a few in the room, or otherwise have some kind of really common keywords going on in all you can see of their keywords, then that's an OOC problem...not an IC one. They're relying on the way the code works with keywords to disadvantage other players, which is abusive. For the most part, as Moe mentioned, I've only seen this type of strategy from 'rinthi characters.
Then again, they're only doing this to avoid sdesc sniffing, which relies on the way the code works with keywords to advantage themselves, which is abusive.
Even dressed up with the best of rationalizations, this is still pretty obviously code abuse, IMHO.
The code it circumvents is a really annoying and plot-ruining bit of code, but being as you're still abusing the code to get around it, I'm going to have to agree. I've personally never even considered giving an alias and then not adding it to my keywords--if someone knows me by a name, they should be able to target me with that name, regardless of what OOC consequences it may have.
I think most of this kind of thing comes down to whether you're doing somehting with the intention of gaining some OOC advantage. That could go for a lot of things: choice of sdesc, how you write your mdesc, when you burgle apartments, whether you add a keyword or not, etc. etc. When your motive is to get an OOC edge, I'd say you're not being fair to the rest of the playerbase.
Having a keyword that is also an alias has been done since the beginning of time, and there has never...ever...been an issue with it before.
So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's fine.
Quote from: Armaddict on July 17, 2008, 11:36:04 PM
Having a keyword that is also an alias has been done since the beginning of time, and there has never...ever...been an issue with it before.
So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's fine.
You're mistaken.
The issue is:
a) having an alias that is not a keyword
or
b) having an alias that is a keyword, but is also a keyword for a bazillion NPCs.
Both of which suck, and would perhaps cause me to summon some IC rationale for stabbing said character in the spine. Perhaps. Maybe I might go OOC and politely ask them to add the keyword. There's a command for that, you know.
I ALWAYS come up with nicknames and aliases for my characters. Perhaps someone doesn't WANT to type "Kelthuzarmam" everytime, so I just addkeyword Kel
I honestly didn't even know people said "My name, is Snake" and didn't addkeyword it. Thats just bad form.
Er, okay. Yeah, that's been brought up before. Sorry, I guess I misread the OP.
Myself, I don't really have an opinion on it either way...I don't think it's necessarily bad form, having had a character that was known as a different name by several different groups. Pretty lame when someone says the name they know you by, and instantly that person tries 'contact <name>', and voila...it's you! They haven't seen you before, but now your plots are uncovered because you used contact on a name that was hearsay for you.
That's always lame. But on the other hand, yeah...it is also lame when the dark eyed man gives you a name that is not correct. I always just say screw it to contacting them, and they won't get whatever you need to tell them. *shrug*
There's a number of ways to severely abuse the Way and most of them shouldn't be explained in detail on the GDB, but they mostly have to do with knowing how contact prioritizes targets and how you can exploit the keywords. There are ways to discover a PC's playtimes, even if you didn't know about them to begin with. There are ways to find out about PCs who are a certain kind of magicker or can hide. Obviously, there are ways to find the sdesc of just about anyone regardless of how much effort they make out of disguising themselves. I wish all of these abusive methods would be removed, they serve no other purpose than to exploit and take advantage of people, and it has a purely negative impact on the game.
Add keywords, its fine. Have many, hand out a new one to each person that you meet. Nothing wrong with letting them target you easily. (so speaks the one that had a character with one name...two variations of nicknames stepping from that, and two alias' given to an assortment of people - lots of names are fun, if confusing!)
Quote from: Armaddict on July 18, 2008, 07:17:54 PM
Pretty lame when someone says the name they know you by, and instantly that person tries 'contact <name>', and voila...it's you! They haven't seen you before, but now your plots are uncovered because you used contact on a name that was hearsay for you.
Yeah, that could stand to be fixed somehow.
And the sdesc sniffing has to be fixed - I don't know why it hasn't. There could be a good reason, I don't know. It would be great if "contact figure" just gave you a mental image of the "figure" in whatever they are wearing (cloak) and not reveal their sdesc.
Or if you tried to contact:
Big brute brutus hairy armed man tiny
It would show you:
You contacted your target, Big brute brutus hairy armed man tiny.
You way a big brutus hairy armed man tiny, "Hey, how's it going?"
Or, if you only know an alias:
You contacted your target, Tiny.
You way tiny, "Hey how's it going?"
Quote from: Delstro on July 19, 2008, 10:21:50 AM
Or if you tried to contact:
Big brute brutus hairy armed man tiny
It would show you:
You contacted your target, Big brute brutus hairy armed man tiny.
You way a big brutus hairy armed man tiny, "Hey, how's it going?"
Or, if you only know an alias:
You contacted your target, Tiny.
You way tiny, "Hey how's it going?"
That makes sense. Maybe if you got better (really really good) or were a psionicist, only then could you see the true sdesc or be able to see through disguises. The average person shouldn't be able to see sdescs and be as good as a mindbender at these things.
I think we're working with way too little information on this one, guys.
The staff, who actually do know all these details, have said repeatedly that the Way works exactly as it is intended to.
Maybe, it is intended to be this way, but... it could be -better- and more fun if we changed the intentions.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on July 19, 2008, 10:36:30 AM
I think we're working with way too little information on this one, guys.
The staff, who actually do know all these details, have said repeatedly that the Way works exactly as it is intended to.
A lot of stuff is like that, I don't know everything the staff knows about the game... nobody does. You can't blame us for being ignorant. ;) But then again, if we don't say anything at all there's a lot of stuff that wouldn't get fixed. This could be one of those things, who knows.
While normally I'd agree Sokotra, I think this issue has been brought up almost as much as "Too many magickers" threads, and the staff keeps insisting that it is working as they intended, and there won't be any changes to it. Its unfortunate, but In The Imms We Trust.
Quote from: Riev on July 19, 2008, 02:04:00 PM
While normally I'd agree Sokotra, I think this issue has been brought up almost as much as "Too many magickers" threads, and the staff keeps insisting that it is working as they intended, and there won't be any changes to it. Its unfortunate, but In The Imms We Trust.
Huh. I guess if they've already responded to the details of the problems discussed here then there's nothing left to say. ;) Although, there are lots of things that get discussed continuously through the years like this.