Can someone please direct me to an explanation of this new brawl code I'm hearing about?
In a room flagged brawl, you can use the 'hit' command to punch someone. You cannot have weapons in hand.
It is that simple.
I'd just like to add that using other combat commands (kick, bash, disarm, etc) are not part of the brawl code. Using these will have the same effect they would normally have. Only hit should be used for brawling.
What about kill? It's essentially the same command, correct?
Only use hit. To the brawling script that provides the functionality, "kill" is not the same command.
What about if an unarmed person "hit"s an armed person, does the armed person get into trouble? What if the victim pulls a weapon to defend himself? An unarmed uber warrior or super-mul could beat an _armed_ newbie merchant to an unconcious pulp in seconds, and then steal his pants.
Hmm, maybe I'll just drink my ale in the nice safe streets. :P
AC
I hear the 'rinther taverns are nice :P
Instead of asking tons of questions, I think it would be better to just find out ICly and if you see anything strange going on, bug it ;)
Quote from: "Angela Christine"What about if an unarmed person "hit"s an armed person, does the armed person get into trouble? What if the victim pulls a weapon to defend himself? An unarmed uber warrior or super-mul could beat an _armed_ newbie merchant to an unconcious pulp in seconds, and then steal his pants.
If a mul tries to fiddle around my pants I will definitely draw my dagger and perforate his face with it. :wink:
I've tried the new brawl code, and to be honest, I think its heavily bugged. I got into a fistfight with another PC, in one of said taverns (I won't mention which one) and we -roughly- went shot for shot. This is what happened:
You move towards the man.
The man rolls with your punch and throws you against the wall.
The man moves towards you.
You roll with the man's punch and throw him into a table.
You move towards the man.
The man rolls with your punch and throws you against the wall.
The man moves towards you.
You roll with the man's punch and throw him into a table.
You move towards the man.
The man rolls with your punch and throws you against the wall.
The man moves towards you.
You roll with the man's punch and throw him into a table.
See a pattern? If you hit someone, it seems that you always fail, your attack gets reversed, and you incur the "penalty" that goes along with the brawl code. So the best thing to do is just do nothing but emote, and let the other guy do all the attacking, because all of his moves will be reversed and he'll incur the "penalty" while you incur nothing.
That's pretty much the concern I expressed to the staff.
Yeah... I was saying the same thing here: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=62909#62909.
There's something seriously wrong with the brawl code. Out of around thirty attacks, I've never seen one succeed.
Cool. At least people won't be abusing it as an easy way to be a mugger then. The thing that scares me most about the brawl code is that it wouldn't be used for brawling, but as a way to avoid the crim code around stealing. Walk in and start beating on someone you've never interacted with before, knock them unconcious, and then steal everything they own before they wake up.
If it is really a brawl and not just an attack, with everyone involved throwing punches, then the result will be appropriate.
AC
Quote from: "Angela Christine"The thing that scares me most about the brawl code is that it wouldn't be used for brawling, but as a way to avoid the crim code around stealing.
I share the same concern.
Maybe it could be set that after a set number of attacks have been thrown by a PC, the militia becomes upset and results in a crim-flag? It wouldn't remove the option of beating someone to death, it would just bring down the wrath of the law for things getting out of hand.
It makes sense... a couple punches between mercenaries is no big deal, but when it starts to become disruptive to the peace the soldiers come to knock some heads together.
The old brawl code would stop you from ever knocking someone out or killing them. You'd get a 'to hit them any more it might be illegal' type of message as I recall.
I've always thought of it as a really cool little roleplay aid. Basically giving some realism to emoted fights.
QuoteThe old brawl code would stop you from ever knocking someone out or killing them. You'd get a 'to hit them any more it might be illegal' type of message as I recall.
I would like that a lot more. I think it should be based a little on skill, so the tough mercenaries do kick ass and it would be a real contest or strength and skill, but they can't go around mugging people with it.
As it is, it's pretty useless. There's no point in brawling if you're gonna get "thrown onto a table with a savage toss" by a scrawny elf every time you try to throw a punch.
Quote from: "CRW"The old brawl code would stop you from ever knocking someone out or killing them. You'd get a 'to hit them any more it might be illegal' type of message as I recall.
Yeah, but you could if the brawl ran off exactly the same variables as a regular fight. Ever practice "unarmed combat" in the Byn or other combat clan? A giant, mul or even an experienced dwarf can easily knock out a half-elf with just a couple successful punches. If the brawl code doesn't let that happen, then I'm glad.
AC
I'd like to point out that there is nothing unrealistic about being knocked unconscious or killed in a bar fight. The main problem as I see it, is with the unconsciousness code.
I'd like to see it changed so that a non-thief will always become incriminated if he attempts to loot an unconscious person, assuming that his location is appropriate for becoming incriminated in the first place.
I'd like to see it changed so that a THIEF would have either no bonus, or a penalty. The fact is, when you're crouching over somebody and rummaging through their possessions, its a lot harder to disguise that as something innocent than say, if you brush by them on the way to the bar and yoink their dagger. The only advantage is that the actual target wouldn't be able to sense you. However, PCs, NPCs and VNPCs are still aware of your presence, and can report you to the law if they notice that you're looting somebody.
Quote from: "Angela Christine"Yeah, but you could if the brawl ran off exactly the same variables as a regular fight.
Trust me, it didn't. I believe Krrx wrote the old code to do anything but become a way to knock people out for phat lewt.
QuoteEver practice "unarmed combat" in the Byn or other combat clan? A giant, mul or even an experienced dwarf can easily knock out a half-elf with just a couple successful punches. If the brawl code doesn't let that happen, then I'm glad.
My experience was with a 15 day mul of mine who laughed at tembos going at it with a newbie human who I guessed was assassin class because he was sneaking everywhere.
I hit him twice, then I couldn't hit him any more. The message was...oh man, something like 'To hit him any more might kill him!' and no matter what I did I couldn't 'hit' that target anymore. If I wanted to do him in or knock him out I had to do it the old fashioned way.
Can't say anything about the new code.
Quote from: "Callisto"Maybe it could be set that after a set number of attacks have been thrown by a PC, the militia becomes upset ..... when it starts to become disruptive to the peace the soldiers come to knock some heads together.
I like this idea. I like the idea if a brawl goes for an IC hour, the militia comes in and starts "knocking some heads together."
But it wouldn't be realistic for the militia to arrest EVERYONE involved in the brawl. So what do they do? They come in, and literally knock some heads together (i.e. start sapping people or knocking them unconscious). Then perhaps arrest a couple of unconcious people based on a random program.
But what about looters? Added incentive to make brawls quick and dirty unless the stealing code gets changed ;)
Quote from: "EvilRoeSlade"I'd like to point out that there is nothing unrealistic about being knocked unconscious or killed in a bar fight.
I agree. The problem is that the code can't tell the difference between a "bar fight" and a guy, or gang of guys, walking up to someone and beating on them with no provocatin or motive (other than theft). Instead of mugging people in dark alleys, you simply wait until you catch someone "alone" in a bar and beat them senseless.
The law and the people in the bar might not care if a couple rowdy drunks start talking trash and then throwing punches, but they would care if street thugs started ambushing paying customers for no apparent reason. (Except in the 'rinth, where people love it when random thugs come in and start stabbing the customers). It just isn't good for buisness to let customers get beat up, so they'd report it.
QuoteThe main problem as I see it, is with the unconsciousness code.
I'd like to see it changed so that a non-thief will always become incriminated if he attempts to loot an unconscious person, assuming that his location is appropriate for becoming incriminated in the first place.
I'd like to see it changed so that a THIEF would have either no bonus, or a penalty. The fact is, when you're crouching over somebody and rummaging through their possessions, its a lot harder to disguise that as something innocent than say, if you brush by them on the way to the bar and yoink their dagger. The only advantage is that the actual target wouldn't be able to sense you. However, PCs, NPCs and VNPCs are still aware of your presence, and can report you to the law if they notice that you're looting somebody.
You have a point there. I'd certainly look if I saw some guy pulling some other guy's pants off. I might not report it right away, but I'd look. ;)
AC
I've fixed the brawl code with major assistance from Xygax. The errors were small and easy to miss.
You should never be able to kill someone through brawling. There's a chance that you could knock someone out, but I think that's low. The message will say that to attack someone who is already low on stun or health is violent enough to be considered a crime. To continue, you'll need to use the kill command.
PCs will not be able to brawl with NPCs. This is so that people don't run into a bar and randomly start to attack NPCs simply because they "can".
If you'd like to submit scenario messages, please e-mail them to me (CCing mud@armageddon.org) in the following format:
Success
Message to attacker:
Message to defender:
Message to room:
Failure
Message to attacker:
Message to defender:
Message to room:
You can include more than one message to the attacker, defender, or room, I just need to know what is sent where. Please make these generic enough that they will work in all taverns.
Let me know if you find any bugs, as well.
I'd like to see the constant misses addressed. In at least one place with the brawl code, I've been in two fights where at -least- thirty attempts were made on my part and only one hit. In the first fight, I missed every single time, yet managed to kick the person's ass when it came down to real, hard-coded brawling.
She just said she fixed that.
Mekeda
Quote from: "Mekeda"She just said she fixed that.
Mekeda
No, she didn't.