I wonder, whether mantis head is IC or OOC. I mean is there really a term for death, as "seeing the mantis head" or is it all OOCly seeing the welcome to Armageddon and the stuff?
AFAIK, it's all OOC. However some tribes could possibly use it as a saying ;)
It is TOTALLY an OOC statement.
I just told someone in game I'm going to mantis head them but good.
Does that make me a twink, or a bad RPer?
You're a twnk, CRW.
Well, I think of it like this.
We are essentially the avatars of all these little people who inhabit zalanthas. Its us who decide what they believe, and what they don't. If we decide that "seeing a mantis head" means you died, then that's a nice little superstition that exists for no particular reason, much like many of today's myths and religious beliefs.
Quote from: "CRW"I just told someone in game I'm going to mantis head them but good.
Does that make me a twink, or a bad RPer?
Mudsexer.
Anyway, the Mantis head thing is OOC.
AC
I always thought that it was an OOC thing that went IC...
Like a myth or the grim reaper.. I mean OOC you do see.. the lovely scrolling mantis head.. but I always thought that it would be ok in game to say something like..
Yeah, for a second there I thought I was going get paid a visit by the mantis head, still can't belive I made it out alive..
But clearly that's incorrect..
Quote from: "sarahjc"I always thought that it was an OOC thing that went IC...
Like a myth or the grim reaper.. I mean OOC you do see.. the lovely scrolling mantis head.. but I always thought that it would be ok in game to say something like..
Yeah, for a second there I thought I was going get paid a visit by the mantis head, still can't belive I made it out alive..
But clearly that's incorrect..
I agree with you, and I'm going to start using it in game. I mean...how do we know that we aren't all pfiles on some intergalactic network computer, being altered daily by overlords who enjoy romping around on the fictional planet Earth?
I'd personally prefer if 'mantis head' stayed OOC. I mean really, I could see someone saying something like, "My life flashed before my eyes as quick as a mantis after it's dinner," but using just 'mantis head' conjures up images of this floating head coming after you...at least as far as Zalanthas goes. I'd much rather see someone invent an original concept of the spectre of death, otherwise it's just a jarring OOC reference.
Quote from: "uberjazz"I agree with you, and I'm going to start using it in game.
No, you won't.
It is an OOC reference and should stay an OOC reference.
Quote from: "SykotikGith"using just 'mantis head' conjures up images of this floating head coming after you...at least as far as Zalanthas goes. I'd much rather see someone invent an original concept of the spectre of death, otherwise it's just a jarring OOC reference.
See I always thought that of it in the sense that the last face you see is that of a black mantis.
Back in the day when mantis weren't killing everything in site and stayed in the valley, I thought it was a cool old wives tale. Like if children are bad, the mantis will creep out from under the bed and eat them. Leaving their last thought as -seeing the mantis head-. Plus I think it also is instilled by the fear of permadeath.. becuase we all know what happens when we see the Mantis head, which is by all account a great fear of our own, thus attaching it moreso to the fear of our PC's not wanting to die as well.
So all and all I always thought it was a cool reference.
Quote from: "Callisto"uberjazz wrote:
I agree with you, and I'm going to start using it in game.
No, you won't.
It is an OOC reference and should stay an OOC reference..
Isn't that a bit harsh, I think if it has a good story behind it, why not use it..
I don't really see the big deal. It's just a funny OOC reference, that has the potential to take root in IC folk tales, and if talked about in right context can add some flavor.. Does anyone really see a Mantis head when they die? Who knows, nobodys ever come back to tell about it... :D
Edit..
Oh and Uberjazz, Callisto also now orders you to dress in drag all the time.
Quote from: "sarahjc"
Quote from: "Callisto"uberjazz wrote:
I agree with you, and I'm going to start using it in game.
No, you won't.
It is an OOC reference and should stay an OOC reference..
Isn't that a bit harsh, I think if it has a good story behind it, why not use it..
I don't really see the big deal. It's just a funny OOC reference, that has the potential to take root in IC folk tales, and if talked about in right context can add some flavor.. Does anyone really see a Mantis head when they die? Who knows, nobodys ever come back to tell about it... :D
Edit..
Oh and Uberjazz, Callisto also now orders you to dress in drag all the time.
Too late. I've already been to rocky horror.
Quote from: "sarahjc"Does anyone really see a Mantis head when they die? Who knows, nobodys ever come back to tell about it... :D
I move that until the Imm implement reincarnation that those who wish to believe in the all powerful Mantis head IC do so, because no-one IC can refute it!
muhahahaha Callisto.....
I think that concidering there was a massive mantis invasion of Luir's....recently....it wouldn't be unreasonable for a lot of people to be afraid of mantises. Thus, seeing a mantis head could signify the fear living inside of a -lot- of people of being devoured by a mantis. I can't see anyone disagreeing with me on this. Undoubtedly someone will.
Quote from: "uberjazz"I think that concidering there was a massive mantis invasion of Luir's....recently....it wouldn't be unreasonable for a lot of people to be afraid of mantises. Thus, seeing a mantis head could signify the fear living inside of a -lot- of people of being devoured by a mantis. I can't see anyone disagreeing with me on this. Undoubtedly someone will.
Callisto just did, and I haven't cared for the idea from the start.
There's a lot more to be afraid of in the known world than a simple mantis. Magickers, for example.
Please let people find out IC information IC, even if you think it's common knowledge. (Of course, if it is officially common knowledge at this point, nevermind. But I see a lot of threads where people mention magick spells (for example) because it seems they think everyone knows about them. In fact, basically everything I know about magick is from people talking about specific magick effects on this board. It's fucking annoying.)
IMO, anything in the docs is fair game
Returning to the subject. I wish it would never enter the game. It's like saying, 'So, how about those bears?' in reference to some awkward situation that just happened.
Quote from: "John"IMO, anything in the docs is fair game
Where is it in the docs?
Baleeted.
Quote from: "flurry"Where is it in the docs?
Assuming we're still talking about the mantis's (manti?) in Luir's, it's right
here :)
Since everything in the documents is fair game to you, John, I suppose your characters know about Ptarken as well.
The menu is an inherently non-game related mechanism. Talking about the mantis head would be near as appropriate as saying you are gonna go 'log out for the night' ICly.
> say Yeah, I don't think Templar Joe has connected yet.
If anyone ever uses 'mantis head' in an IC context to refer to dying, I reserve the right to send them to a fiery, painful death.
That is all.
Again I say unfair.. As I have been witness to a guard hanging a mantis head on the edge of his bunk..
It's not like mantis don't extist in game, nor is it like they don't have heads..I just don't see why its that big of a deal..I think you're thinking way to much in the context of the scrolling mantis, and not as an idea of a myth.. Most of myths are based on real life ones.. I just don't see why seeing the mantis should be thought of as totally OOC, I mean clearly some people never knew that it was
But Whatever....
Quote from: "sarahjc"Again I say unfair.. As I have been witness to a guard hanging a mantis head on the edge of his bunk..
But the correlation between seeing the mantis head and death is an entirely OOC experience.
QuoteMost of myths are based on real life ones.. I just don't see why seeing the mantis should be thought of as totally OOC, I mean clearly some people never knew that it was
The phrase 'seeing the mantis head' has no meaning in Zalanthan terms. Seeing a mantis head seems to be a pretty safe thing to me, considering it would have to be detatched from its owner to be referred to as a head. So I don't see where you are going with the myths being based on real life here. Unless there is something I don't know, like maybe mantis heads
EXPLODE!Going to Drov has always had a nice ring to it.
Quote from: "Carnage"Since everything in the documents is fair game to you, John, I suppose your characters know about Ptarken as well.
Talk about taking something I said COMPLETELY out of context. Right above my post, flurry was talking about people mentioning IC stuff on the GDB. I was saying, anything in the docs is fair game to talk about on the GDB. I don't see ANY indication in my post that I was talking about out of character knowledge being used in character.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"Quote from: "sarahjc"Does anyone really see a Mantis head when they die? Who knows, nobodys ever come back to tell about it... :D
I move that until the Imm implement reincarnation that those who wish to believe in the all powerful Mantis head IC do so, because no-one IC can refute it!
Well, I can't argue with that. My next character is going to be a Jew from the "lost" 13th tribe of Isreal. Of course she thinks it's the other 12 tribes that got lost. Sure, Judaism started as an OOC thing, but there's no reason why it couldn't become an IC legend too.
AC
Jerusalem Rivers returns!
Even though I'm really loathe to post anything on this thread, I would like to point out that this is the stupidest thread in the history of the universe. Please, for the love of god, stop.
-Der Comrade
I must stop the madness. I'm going to take the liberty to step in here, and try to put it in very simple terms:
The mantis that you see when you die, and when you connect and disconnect to the Mud, is a menu. Think of it like the box around your Monopoly game. When you feel like playing the game, you get out your monopoly box, and open it up, revealing the game. When you're done, you pack it all up, and put it back in the box.
The box is not the game.
Does your PC see a Mantis when they die? Who knows. Only your PC will ever know - unfortunately, what your PC sees when they die happens right after their death boots you out of the game. As far as the game is concerned, when you die, you are, in essense, forced out of the game. Game Over. The game boxes itself up for your current PC and shows you the shiny packaging on the outside (the mantis), and its time to make a new PC.
So, to put it in even simpler terms:
The mantis screen is a 100% OOC mechanic used to simply you, the Players entrance and exit to the game. Do not refer to it in game. Your PC's have never seen a mantis screen, and have no idea what one is. They do not think about seeing 'The great mantis' when they die, go to sleep, or wake up in the morning. If you do that, you may as well start worshiping the Grand High Helpfiles, which help us get through life, and the Almighty MOTD, which tells us when the whole cities magickally shrink themselves, and when people evolve to where they can use weapons two-handed.
The end.
Quote from: "The7DeadlyVenomz"Jerusalem Rivers returns!
That was the name everyone loved to hate ;)
I think it would be completely fine for a character to have folklore describing how when they die they see a big mantis head. Just like the tunnel of light in the RL. If your want to create such IC folklore, I say go ahead and do it. If all of your chars believe that well then...thats a bit much.
But nonetheless....I don't think it's anyone's place to dictate my characters IC belief system.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"I think it would be completely fine for a character to have folklore describing how when they die they see a big mantis head. Just like the tunnel of light in the RL. If your want to create such IC folklore, I say go ahead and do it. If all of your chars believe that well then...thats a bit much.
But nonetheless....I don't think it's anyone's place to dictate my characters IC belief system.
I do. That's what imms like Tlaloc are there for. That's why we have documentation. That's why, say, a PC preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ would probably be removed from the game rapidly and terminally, as would a worshipper of the Grand High Helpfiles.
Quirk
Quote from: "jmordetsky"I think it would be completely fine for a character to have folklore describing how when they die they see a big mantis head. Just like the tunnel of light in the RL. If your want to create such IC folklore, I say go ahead and do it. If all of your chars believe that well then...thats a bit much.
But nonetheless....I don't think it's anyone's place to dictate my characters IC belief system.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
GREAT IDEA!Not even imms, who operate the game, should tell you what kind of character you should make.
Fuck you, Sanvean. Fuck you, Nessalin. Fuck you, everyone who's spent time trying to shape and create an original world. I'm giong to create a Tolkien-esque fire elementalist priest who worships Krath as a god, abhors slavery, is virtuous and would never steal, and always tells the truth.
Okay,
1) I'm not insulting the staff. Lets have a rational discussion without reverting into ridiculousness. I think we're all capable.
2) I'll take it back, as soon you explain to me the following differences:
The difference between:
A PC whose background states they come from a tribe who worships Krath, believing Krath is a deity who brings the tribe life.
and
A PC whose background states they come from a tribe who worships the mantis, believing all mantis stem from one diety....a mantis head.
The point being, the game allows a player to be creative to a point. And I *firmly* state, that I don't believe a PC who believes that upon death they will be greated by a mantis, or mantis head is out of line. It's a game related entity, and I'm within my creative freedom as a player in stating such in my background.
At no point was a "Fuck you" given to the staff, Carnage.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"2) I'll take it back, as soon you explain to me the following differences:
The difference between:
A PC whose background states they come from a tribe who worships Krath, believing Krath is a deity who brings the tribe life.
and
A PC whose background states they come from a tribe who worships the mantis, believing all mantis stem from one diety....a mantis head.
Because the basis for that belief comes from the game's menu, pure and simple. It's as fitting in the gameworld as having a tribe that referrred to the known world as 'Armageddon' or believed in a god named Tlaloc.
Be more original and come up with something that won't confuse new players.
QuoteThe point being, the game allows a player to be creative to a point.
But you aren't being original, you are being corny by insinuating an OOC design on the login into the gameworld.
QuoteAnd I *firmly* state, that I don't believe a PC who believes that upon death they will be greated by a mantis, or mantis head is out of line. It's a game related entity, and I'm within my creative freedom as a player in stating such in my background.
It's not that such a concept is impossible, it is just that the concept is so completely based on something removed from the gameworld that it's cheap.
Could a tribe of elves decide to start making smiley faces in the ground to show they are joking after a conversation? Sure. Would that make it original, cool or something universally appreciated? Doubt it.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"
A PC whose background states they come from a tribe who worships Krath, believing Krath is a deity who brings the tribe life.
I really like this idea! Bow down before your great master! The Age of Krath! Akaramu already worships me! Who is next going to jump on the bandwagon!
Quote from: "CRW"
It's not that such a concept is impossible, it is just that the concept is so completely based on something removed from the gameworld that it's cheap.
Well stated. And to an extent I agree with you, but because it's not impossible, or rather, less improbable then say worship good old JC or calling the world armageddon IC, I don't think we ought make a practice of preaching to players that something of this nature is completely banned and out of the question.
Am I going to run around worshiping mantis heads anytime soon? No.
Do I have problem with being told that I *absolutely cannot* when I personally consider it a perfectly reasonable within the context of the game? Yes. I don't like it and I didn't think I'd ever be having this conversation about arm.
Do I think it's the staff's right to turn this bg down? Yea, but I do think it'd be unreasonable to do so. I am allowed (last I checked) to hold an oppinion.
The point being, arm encourages creativity but needs to have a well defined line of how far one can go with said creativity to keep true to the games context, and feel. But I think it's very important to watch where you draw those lines lest you cut off the creativity that makes arm what it is.
Again, thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. Feel free to neg my next app if it does in fact make reference to a pechant for mantis head worship. Which it won't, but this has been fun exercise nonetheless.
My next app will however, clearly worship Krath. :)
QuoteDo I have problem with being told that I *absolutely cannot* when I personally consider it a perfectly reasonable within the context of the game? Yes. I don't like it and I didn't think I'd ever be having this conversation about arm.
Yeah, see, that basically -does- come out as a big fuck you. You're basically saying that you'll play by the rules you wish to go by, and if you find one you don't like you're going to just completely go against it. That's not excusable at all. I don't agree with certain things in the game either, but I don't run around constantly disobeying them.
Carnage, I'm not even going to bother with a response to that.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"Carnage, I'm not even going to bother with a response to that.
That doesn't count as a response?
Yes it does. Your deductive skills are staggering.
Might as well lock this thread if it is just going to be you two flaming each other.
Quote from: "Krath"Might as well lock this thread if it is just going to be you two flaming each other.
You're not helping. Let it go, friend.
Typical.
When one can not think of an appropriatly intelligent response, yet still feels the need to be superior. Wonderful, bravo, real knock down way of showing how mature the older players are.
Perhaps a middle ground could be established?
It is obviously not okay to use the term 'mantishead.' The reason is solely because of the opening ascii graphic. Perhaps if we had a big happy fluffy bunny as the entry graphic, then maybe the term 'mantishead' could be used EXTREMELY rarely. Why? Because it would make absolutely no sense outside of the connotations of that person/tribe's belief system.
There's a lot of possibility for what else could be used, however:
"I'm going to leave your corpse for mantis chow outside of Luir's!"
"After this fight, your life will be as bright as the inside of a mantis's jaws... and I'll be much richer."
Ad Nauseum...
The reason the term 'mantishead' is so innappropriate is because it is an OOC convention. It is a *glaring* thing to see come up on your screen, and could easily shake you from the feel of your scene if done regularly.
Tlaloc gave some very good reasons to not use stuff like this.
shout (in a loud and commanding voice, raising one hand high) By the Light of the Grand High Helpfiles, Illuminate This Madness and Give Unto Me Knowledge of This Sword's Stats!!
The best reason to listen to Tlaloc is that he knows his shit... and if he tries at all to live up to his reputation, he's going to have people come and sacrifice you to him to make sure the lands are fertile.
jmordetsky, I'm not trying to come down on you, but the staff runs this joint, and they do give us a LOT of freedom about what we want to do. There are certain things that are universally accepted though. When you die, you see Drov... not ascii graphics.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"Lets have a rational discussion without reverting into ridiculousness.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"Carnage, I'm not even going to bother with a response to that.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"Yes it does. Your deductive skills are staggering.
Indeed.
Enough.