So, I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I play antisocial characters who do not want to mingle, nor do I have anything like a good perspective on the characters as a whole or the level of mingling going on as a whole. So I wouldn't even say this is a problem or a concern. However, something Miradus said in another thread has brought to the top of my mind the topic of mingling. So two questions for discussion.
1. Do you think the degree to which characters mingle is about right? I'll leave it broad as to what 'mingling' means, but I suppose it means something like 'finding someone to interact with in a public place'.
2. What are some ways we could encourage more mingling?
Here are some ideas at #2.
a. Move the various clan compounds closer to the bars: Byn, Salarr, Nobles, etc. We can still virtually pretend they are clear across town. Perhaps build shortcut streets that virtually cut quicker across town to the compounds.
b. notify command? I remember SoI had a notify command (opt in, IIRC) where you could notify clan members that you were around. You could have a notify to alert anyone in Allanak that you are in Allanak, or anyone in the tablelands that you are in the tablelands, etc. It'd be an OOC construct.
I don't think there's any "correct" degree to which we should all mingle. Mingle how much you personally want.
To that end, don't be too afraid to take time to mingle at the expense of, say, sparring. Just because it's dawn shouldn't mean you need to sprint out of the Gaj lest your Sergeant whip your ass in to unconsciousness for being a few minutes late. There's got to be a little slack in clan schedules.
It's a balancing act faced by all leader PCs.
I mingle when I/my character have the time/energy to do so.
After a certain point when the plot-tangle's thick enough, I have to make a conscious point of it.
I don't think we need to turn it into an obligation, but I do try to be in an "accessible" i.e. not behind locked doors area whenever I am actually up to and available for mingling. Whether this leads to encounters in the desert or at the bar.
Mingle as much as your character (and your playstyle) prefers.
Me? I like to mingle with a buddy while we're bashing in some gith heads. Others like to mingle from atop a barstool.
Someone who just wants to do one type of mingling (or none) isn't hurting me at all. It's the difficulty involved in finding a friend who wants to do YOUR sort of mingling. You can't find gith skull bashers loitering in the tavern, usually. Or at least you can't immediately tell that they are.
1: Mingling, never touch the stuff.
2: First let's decide if mingling is something that's desired, then let's work on increasing it.
I think the people who want to mingle have more than enough avenues to make that happen, and the characters I've had in the past that wanted to mingle had no problem finding people to mingle with.
I think mingling should be facilitated by events that happen regularly. Weekly kruth games. Fale night at Red's Retreat. That kind of thing.
Trying to create mingling by eliminating barriers to mingling just won't have the same effect as creating occasions to mingle.
The distance to the bar in Allanak can be a pain, but it gives those other people a window of opportunity to "mingle" with you.
Quote from: solera on February 02, 2017, 07:34:34 PM
The distance to the bar in Allanak can be a pain, but it gives those other people a window of opportunity to "mingle" with you.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on February 02, 2017, 06:42:00 PM
I don't think there's any "correct" degree to which we should all mingle. Mingle how much you personally want.
To that end, don't be too afraid to take time to mingle at the expense of, say, sparring. Just because it's dawn shouldn't mean you need to sprint out of the Gaj lest your Sergeant whip your ass in to unconsciousness for being a few minutes late. There's got to be a little slack in clan schedules.
It's a balancing act faced by all leader PCs.
The few times I've been a leader, or even in that position, just "asking" the leader around or informing them afterwards has usually worked. In the RARE-AS-SHIT case that staff 'catch' you skipping on your training or chores, if you tell your superior that its because you were "at the Gaj, talking to <pretty aide>", you'll probably be excused. Socializing, publicizing, looking like the clan is active... sometimes that's more important than "SPAR ERRAYDAY".
Quote from: Riev on February 03, 2017, 09:41:21 AM
The few times I've been a leader, or even in that position, just "asking" the leader around or informing them afterwards has usually worked. In the RARE-AS-SHIT case that staff 'catch' you skipping on your training or chores, if you tell your superior that its because you were "at the Gaj, talking to <pretty aide>", you'll probably be excused. Socializing, publicizing, looking like the clan is active... sometimes that's more important than "SPAR ERRAYDAY".
Pssht, aint nuthin more important than RUFF CIRCLE! ;D
Oh pfft. I know what happens to a runner who skips chores!
Could move the Gaj to Trademan's Street. Closer to the clannies, the rinthis. Change the Gaj into a barely-guarded dormitory where some elf is selling knives. He winks at you when you buy one.
I think the amount of mingling is pretty spot on as is. Its not only "encouraged" as this is that type of game, but its down right hard to avoid. Even if you're going out of your way to be that lone wolf who despises all manner of life in the known, somebody is gonna walk by and be like "Heyyyyy! fancy meetin' you up on this mountain top! You wanna be buddies?" (insert flaming arrow storm of sorc-bending here) :o
There's always ways to limit your mingling by politely telling people to fuck off or stab them a few times, but I don't think its too difficult to go meet some people by any means.
Nobody in Zalanthas has time for, or interest in mingling because they get plenty of social interaction via their cell phones the Way.
Eh. I find social interaction exhausting. IRL and IC both. The Way is vastly preferred by my pcs for the same reason I prefer texting to phone calls or face to face meeting. There's freedom to multitask, less to worry about ambiguity with (body language, vocal inflection, etc), and I can continue doing what I want while getting the point across. Then, I'm the only person I know IRL who's taken an honest-to-god week long vow of silence and loved it. >.>
Bring weather back to Allanak!
Everytime I've been 'nabbed for being a baddie was when I was trying to mingle in a tavern.
I feel like that's another problem with "antagonist" PC's. When you're on the bad side of the establishment, it becomes very dangerous to seek interaction with other characters. So much so that I presume many antagonist PC's eventually just get bored and decide to take that risk after an extended period of avoiding the fuzz. Which then follows with that apparant 'nabbing.
Just an observation.
I would be against bringing the taverns closer. Its unfortunate, but the pathway between the compound/apartments to the taverns is the best last opportunity I have to kill ... ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!
Arghem.
I think it's up to the PC leadership. They should encourage contact building, so when people break the rulez to interact some more, the leaders should be wise enough to allow this. I always eye rolled when they didnt. But yes, there is a balance. Allow too many people to not show up for scheduled ... whatever, and suddenly someone logs off, because he thinks the clan is dead. Sigh.
This sounds to me like one of those solutions being offered to a problem that might not really be a problem.
I've been playing a character who spends a lot of time in Allanak for just about a RL year now and never really felt like there was a lack of mingling or social interaction. Any time I've felt up for some socialising (which is admittedly not super often given the types of characters I tend to play), I've just parked my PC somewhere and others inevitably happen by.
If you build it, they will come, so to speak. Just make yourself visible. You definitely don't need tavern time to mingle, either. It's easy enough to accomplish on those long city roads people seem to see as an obstacle instead of an opportunity. :)
Quote from: Comfortably Dumb on February 05, 2017, 06:03:12 PM
This sounds to me like one of those solutions being offered to a problem that might not really be a problem.
I've been playing a character who spends a lot of time in Allanak for just about a RL year now and never really felt like there was a lack of mingling or social interaction. Any time I've felt up for some socialising (which is admittedly not super often given the types of characters I tend to play), I've just parked my PC somewhere and others inevitably happen by.
If you build it, they will come, so to speak. Just make yourself visible. You definitely don't need tavern time to mingle, either. It's easy enough to accomplish on those long city roads people seem to see as an obstacle instead of an opportunity. :)
Yeah just don't type e,e,e,e,e,e,e,e,e,e,n,e,e,e,e, when you are trying to get to the market. Just...walk one room at a time! :)
Honestly, the only time I have ever truly wanted for more interaction, is in the 'Rinth. I had my group of friends but that was it, no one else happened by. That and late during my night time would be nice.
That being said, the lack of mingling I think people see, is that they are trying to mingle during the wrong times example of this being going to the Gaj and not seeing any PC's there. Dude its the middle of the day, Bynners are Bynning, hunters are hunting. Crafters are crafting and tressers are tressing. Of course you wont get much mingling done when everyone else has the duty to be working.
I find that anytime I go to the Gaj at night however that Vennant likely has a headache with all the people who just sit at the bar and do nothing, a few weeks ago I was there and there was 3 people other than me at the bar and no one spoke a single word for the 30 mins that is dusk-dawn.
Quote from: Hauwke on February 05, 2017, 06:32:19 PM
I find that anytime I go to the Gaj at night however that Vennant likely has a headache with all the people who just sit at the bar and do nothing, a few weeks ago I was there and there was 3 people other than me at the bar and no one spoke a single word for the 30 mins that is dusk-dawn.
Likely as not they were waiting on their own friends and you just didn't make the cut.
That's what I find. I walk in a bar and the only way I know people there aren't afk is they all look at me. I say hello, they nod, and that's about it. No conversation.
Until their buddy walks in, then they're a regular couple of chatterboxes.
Quote from: Miradus on February 05, 2017, 07:03:11 PM
Quote from: Hauwke on February 05, 2017, 06:32:19 PM
I find that anytime I go to the Gaj at night however that Vennant likely has a headache with all the people who just sit at the bar and do nothing, a few weeks ago I was there and there was 3 people other than me at the bar and no one spoke a single word for the 30 mins that is dusk-dawn.
Likely as not they were waiting on their own friends and you just didn't make the cut.
That's what I find. I walk in a bar and the only way I know people there aren't afk is they all look at me. I say hello, they nod, and that's about it. No conversation.
Until their buddy walks in, then they're a regular couple of chatterboxes.
[/quote
I'm going to kill you so hard.
Then talk a lot about it with strangers. "Make Armageddon Great Again"
All this "They look at me and nod" business. I dont really understand what do you expect. They dont know you. What do you expect them to say? Why are they the ones saying shit and not you? Be nosy. Butt in. Get involved. They wont know you for 2-3-7 sessions, but they'll open up with time. It's only natural.
It's like people would complain that Red Storm tavern has no interaction, when there are 6 PCs inside, each one idle, each one 'minding their own business'.
Nothing is wrong with that, mind you. It's a very adequate way to go if thats what your chara is about. But ... you shouldnt complain in my opinion.
I don't expect anything. :)
I'm quite happy with my level of interaction in the game.
I think the 'complaint' is that 5 people at a bar, and not a one is even attempting conversation with the others.
When I first started playing, it was kind of a 'thing' where once it became nighttime, unless you have shit to do you go to a tavern. Someone is telling a story, or playing cards, or whatever. You go there to make friends with the grebber that can't sell all his rocks, or the merchant who really needs to get to Luir's with all his new jewelry.
SOMETIMES (and by all means not all the time), you can walk into the most populated-by-PCs-room in the game, and there's nothing going on but Waying and grumbling.
Having spent several hours yesterday sitting next to a very inebriated gentleman of Hispanic descent, I am certainly feeling more inspired for how to be more proactive in engaging my fellow tavern sitters. Especially when I have a language to use that they do not understand.
Oh. Miradus I'm sorry. Gah. I didnt really mean to direct this at you. It's just I've heard this before and it always puzzled me. The whole "look at me, nod, and nothing, until someone else that they know comes in" it makes it all appear so ... so cliquey it. But it really isnt. Sit down near some dude you know nothing about and if he doesnt have any extraordinary things about him, go ahead and 'try' to concoct a meaningful conversation out of thin air, with no real plots to discuss with a total stranger. It isnt easy. It's possible, if the character is social, or wants someone from the dude, or if the dude is hot and well ... you want something still. But quiet often it's improbable.
Kind of the same in RL really.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on February 06, 2017, 02:06:05 PM
Having spent several hours yesterday sitting next to a very inebriated gentleman of Hispanic descent, I am certainly feeling more inspired for how to be more proactive in engaging my fellow tavern sitters. Especially when I have a language to use that they do not understand.
I'd love to see more of this. People talking in other languages. I haven't seen much lately and it's really slowing down my attempts to learn all languages. Lol.
This is why I play in-your-face hyper-social characters every once in a while. SOMEONE has to do it!
A super inebriated dwarf sits by your bar, continuously talking at you in a language you dont understand. Periodically, he would declare something, raising a toast, but with only polite and rather confused smiles for company, he'd drink the toast down by himself.
Feeling puzzled, you think:
"What the fuck language is this? I'm a linguist! I know all civilized languages of the known!"
skill language
Sirihish (Master) Allundean (Master)
Cavilish (Master) Murrukim (Master)
Heshrak (novice) Southern Accent
Feeling understanding dawning upon you, you think:
"Oh."
(http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/a/ac/Tuckandrollbugslife.png/revision/latest?cb=20110507012415)
Sit next to these guys.
And speak Nrizkt :D.
If my language list was that long I would have all the accents by that point probably, knowing my luck atleast.
Quote from: Dar on February 06, 2017, 01:51:08 PM
It's like people would complain that Red Storm tavern has no interaction, when there are 6 PCs inside, each one idle, each one 'minding their own business'.
I've
literally killed PCs
just for talking to me at the bar in Storm. There's some things you just don't do. :p
Honestly, I feel like people mingle too much. Especially now with Tuluk closed, one of the major geo-political boundaries to prevent mingling is closed. There are no factions that are openly at cross purposes with one another (boo) so there's not a whole lot to prevent two people from sitting down in the bar with one another anymore. Every character is like 1 degree of Kevin Bacon from everyone else. This can be very problematic.
Quote"Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have fucked with? That's me."
No Clint. I know everybody now.
What we need is more RPTs where undesirables are welcome. :'(
Look at them as a chance to loot the Desirables' apartments while they're away.
Quote from: Stardust on February 09, 2017, 01:49:04 PM
What we need is more RPTs where undesirables are welcome. :'(
Defeats the purpose of being an undesirable. Not being "welcome" is half the fun. Especially if you're the man half the attendees scorn publicly, but come to privately when they need something done. Tressies often lose sight of the game setting with all their costume parties and singing contests and crap. You can be that reminder. ;)
Alternately, create more RPTs where Desirables are NOT welcome. (Or where Desirables
are welcome, but in a
Dinner for Schmucks sort of way. Except I don't think that movie had any sapping and subduing going on.) East vs Westside rinthi rap battle mixer at Hathors anybody?
I would laugh pretty hard at a rap battle in the 'rinth.
Though I suspect it would be taken more of a "LOOK THEY'RE WORKING TOGETHER NOW THATS AGAINST DOCS DOCSO DSOCSOCS" situation.
Mingling 'too much' isn't something I see, at least when I'm able to play. However, there's something to be said about some rich bored PC handing out work because you were 'mingling around the bar'
Quote from: IAmJacksOpinion on February 09, 2017, 01:30:22 PM
Quote from: Dar on February 06, 2017, 01:51:08 PM
It's like people would complain that Red Storm tavern has no interaction, when there are 6 PCs inside, each one idle, each one 'minding their own business'.
I've literally killed PCs just for talking to me at the bar in Storm. There's some things you just don't do. :p
Honestly, I feel like people mingle too much. Especially now with Tuluk closed, one of the major geo-political boundaries to prevent mingling is closed. There are no factions that are openly at cross purposes with one another (boo) so there's not a whole lot to prevent two people from sitting down in the bar with one another anymore. Every character is like 1 degree of Kevin Bacon from everyone else. This can be very problematic.
Quote"Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have fucked with? That's me."
No Clint. I know everybody now.
Good point, but I wanted to just emphasize (or clarify) what I meant by
mingling: finding someone to interact (good or bad) with.
So take that
notify idea -- the thought here would be that if you are playing a Soh and someone is playing a poacher, you could (in theory) notify each other so you (Soh) know that someone is in this area, and you could (if you wanted) leave camp to go look for them, or pause the mudsex to go out and mingle (read: arrow in the neck).
Obviously, it wouldn't be that extreme.
Put another way:
1. Do you (general you) find it too easy to mingle (that is, find someone to interact with if you'd prefer to be alone)?
Right now, in the wilds, the 'hunt' command is sort of like the 'notify' command, such that (perhaps this is good) you can hunt tracks down and find people to interact with. (That's how I use the hunt command even when my goal is to just find someone to shoot the shit with rather than shoot the shit out of.)
Quote from: nauta on February 09, 2017, 02:45:40 PM
So take that notify idea -- the thought here would be that if you are playing a Soh and someone is playing a poacher, you could (in theory) notify each other so you (Soh) know that someone is in this area, and you could (if you wanted) leave camp to go look for them, or pause the mudsex to go out and mingle (read: arrow in the neck).
I'm initially hesitant of the notify idea. There's two scenarios I see for it; finding people you know and finding strangers.
Every PC starts with master contact now, while Barrier can still take 3 days played or more to master. (And frankly isn't that reliable.) I don't think we need more ways to find the folks we're looking for. It would be a real pain to be in the Byn and have your Sarge be able to find out, with zero IC effort, whether or not you've skipped sparring that day. (Sometimes having a job IG can make you feel like you have a job IRL, and if your playtimes don't align with your PCs days off, you can go RL weeks without having an hour to yourself IG. That's bad for morale, and for character development.) And if you could search out specific non-clanned PCs with notify then, well, I foresee a spike in House Merchant character storage requests.
The regional aspect is a little more intriguing, but at the end of the day I see it as an OOC construct that
WILL cause a change in IC behavior. "Someone's in the Grasslands region? Better log my mage out for a while."
I think someone mentioned that this could be an optional system and my thoughts on that are:
- I have no faith that it would be optional. The look echo change started as someone complaining about spam and was a shoe in for the optional settings treatement. A year later I'm STILL trying to get used to it.
- How long before someone starts a thread in RP Discussion trying to nag me to turn my notify on because "it's just good RP."
- How long before someone tries to ask me IC to turn on my notify.
Quote
The idiot who somehow got a leader rank says, in sirihish:
"Ya know Jack, I never know when you're around. You should be more -notable-."
While flailing your arms wildly and hopping up and down you shout in caps-locked sirihish:
"IS THIS BETTER SARGEANT!?"
Without emoting, because he only does that when "girls" are around, the idiot who somehow got a leader rank says, in sirihish:
"No Jack. You need to be more -notable-."
Lifting his chin, waxing his mustache, and donning an air of false sophistication you say, in Sirihish:
"I do say, how about now, my good sir?"
Carefully so that he doesn't risk putting his fingers anywhere near the parenthesis keys, the idiot who somehow got a leader rank says, in Sirihish:
"It's a whipping for you if you don't get more noticable right now!"
Sighing and hanging your head, you say, in Sirihish:
"Hhhhh... Fine."
change notify on
The frankly 'meh' chick arrives from the west.
Straightening up and snapping a firm salute, his bulging bicep glistening in the crisp morning air as his rock hard fist hits his broad, powerful chest with the barely restrained power of a typhoon, but the precision and tenderness of a skilled lover, the idiot who somehow got a leader rank says, in cursive:
" That's better soldier. Dismissed! ... Oh, Talia, didn't see you there.."
I like the idea of a notify command, the way I saw it implemented in Southlands/Evoluion of ESOS was nice. I would prefer a scenario where the helpfile on it clarified that it is a mechanic, and not something you should force others (or try to force others) to use ICly. I would go a step further, and suggest it would be something where you can use your sdesc or be anonymous with it, or perhaps even default to anonymous unless you are a leader pc with access to the who c clan job, so that people have an 'idea' where people are, but not who it is, unless they are pcs who can hire you. As to leaders and notify, since I know that who c is a clan job and that some pc leaders have it, I would think this scenario outlined by jack would be more likely if you were someone's aide or a kadian crafter and the other person was a templar or a noble from a rival clan, as the leaders from your own clan should be able to tell pretty easily when you're on most of the time unless you're expending the time/effort/skill to prevent that already.
Quote from: Stardust on February 09, 2017, 01:49:04 PM
What we need is more RPTs where undesirables are welcome. :'(
While "welcome" might be a stretch, there's a pretty big RPT coming up in 3 weeks. Participation at some of these events may be more acceptable than at others.
So, the notify idea would be something like:
o domain specific (rinth, Allanak, Storm, Vrun, Tablelands, Mantis Valley, Dashra, Grey, Grasslands, Red Desert, etc.)
o anonymous
o opt-in
So you'd type:
notify on
You are now accepting notification alerts.
You would then type:
notify
And if someone is in your domain and they have notify on they would receive:
You have this ooc feeling that someone is in the general area.
I guess I can see Jack's view that it would grow to be a requirement... perhaps it would be disabled in Allanak.
I think what motivates it is (a) being an off-peaker, (b) spending a lot of time spamming hunt to find people to interact with in the wilds and (c) once staff animated something to point me in a direction where some action was going on.
Speaking personally...
I've never really had a problem "mingling" as long as I'm actually circulating around the gameworld with my PC, both offpeak and onpeak hours. Heck, it gets to be a challenge NOT to encounter anyone, if you don't want to.
I just really get squeamish when we start introducing OOC channels, even something like this.
I also played SOI but the difference there (and I still didn't use it because I didn't like it) was the lack of a mechanism like the Unseen Way, which allows us to seek and find interaction without being in the same room.