Branching from the "i miss.... " thread.
If Tuluk was re-opened, I'd like to see a society heavily 1984, or Chinese Cultural Revolution. Three classes, the Bosses, the citizens, and the underground. To enable Neighborhood Watch to be more effective, PCs would sleep / drink/ rent rooms in one building or block.
I don't know how much fun it would be to be the oppressed class. I'm imagining it less stable than Allanak, a continuous wax and wane of the underground, with a chance to raise their own demagogues, or Sorcerers.
Muk, of course, would be sound asleep or just plain gone, but "living on" through His Faithful.
I'd still like there to be trees and gardens and cotton fields though. :)
I am pessimistic about us ever having the numbers for a second city again.
It is way too late at night for me to be posting anything.
Numbers do not need to be a huge issue, if the city that opened would require a lot less governance. Make it still mighty virtually, but allow only a small segment of the city open to PC population.
So the real question here is what kind of a Allanaki Rival does the game need?
Let's surmise that Allanak needs one. A rival. An alternative. A city of culture and location so different, people could choose to play there, instead of Allanak, when they've exhausted roles in the city and recreating there again, would risk creation of a clique (ending up playing with the same people over and over and over).
A culture that is somehow opposing to Allanak, either in resource development, or cultural pride, or sorcery hatred, or religious reasons.
So we have a city that has these as requirements. What aspects does it need to have for players to enjoy playing there?
I wouldn't mind seeing Tuluk reopened if we put an end to psionic Templars and opened a criminal element (the underground for example) that wasn't just a branch of the psionic knows-everything government.
Shadow Artists (shartists) were a neat concept but it was put in with such a heavy hand from the top that it fundamentally ruined them in my opinion. Cool concept, poorly implemented with "how to control them" being put ahead of "how to make them fun". Which was sad.
The problem for me with Tuluk was that even the criminals weren't allowed to be criminals and everything that happened seemed scripted either from the all-knowing templarate or from staff outright.
It just wasn't interesting for me.
The best thing about Tuluk was that it provided opposition and a temporary travelling destination for the people of Allanak. I miss that and I think it is needed. I'm probably not going to play in Tuluk, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate having it around or that it didn't in retrospect provide entertainment in the peripheral.
I would like to see the North Road re-opened, as an ancient road that led between civilizations, and the only way people "got around" some minor destruction was "lets just build rocks in the desert that'll be fine".
If it was re-opened, it would re-open the idea of gith on the road, more patrols, an easier-to-follow path to get between destinations. It might help those who do not have direction sense from wasting legitimately HOURS in RL waiting for a storm to pass because they can't make their way out.
It would give more credence to the need for escorts, and not just "oh well lets patrol that one path and murder a thousand snakes".
I'd like to see it provide more wagon-travel opportunity, and as its a road, perhaps more NPC scripted activity. Send an actual scripted argosy down the road once in a while, or a group of NPC traders with heavy guards. PCs want to try and knock 'em off? So be it, but be prepared for a heavy fight, probably not much in resources, and strained relations with traders!
I don't know. I just feel like without Tuluk around, there's little reason to travel, and the basically ONE place you travel to from Allanak requires a trek through a desert, for no reason. We have magickers, someone fix that fucking hole.
Quote from: solera on September 14, 2016, 09:56:07 AM
If Tuluk was re-opened, I'd like to see a society heavily 1984
Look, I know Orwell was a great author, and I loved reading 1984. Honest.
I just don't want to play in such a place.
What damn fun is there in something happening, and then not ever getting to know of it? Of every PC working for the state being out to actively stifle interaction that isn't pre-approved?
In my not at all humble opinion, Armageddon is at its best when things are vibrant and entire cities are abuzz with things to do. Cloak and dagger events behind the scenes and whatever are fine in that regard, but the behind the scenes part is something which often seems to be lost on this; instead, what you end up with is a bunch of secret things happening without much of a public platform also being very apparent.
So, please, no to anything 1984-like with cover ups, secrecy, whatever the hell else. It simply doesn't make for good gameplay. Fun is finding a bunch of other guys and riding off to kill scary lizards, not sitting quietly in the great fear someone caught you thinking wrong.
I agree that the secrecy/cloak and dagger plots are great to read on paper, but for a game, can be exclusionary rather than inclusive.
Quote from: Reiloth on September 14, 2016, 11:57:18 AM
I agree that the secrecy/cloak and dagger plots are great to read on paper, but for a game, can be exclusionary rather than inclusive.
me three.
To expand, it felt at times in Tuluk that there was a bunch of people in a Tavern, and each one was going "Neener Neener, I know something you don't know". And none of them were talking to each other. Way conversations were happening, but people would be talking about the weather.
On paper (In a book), there are all the internal workings and machinations of the characters laid bare. Soliloquy is common, and you the audience member are aware of all the plots and motivations behind them.
On the surface (In a game), you see a bunch of turds sitting around in a bar either not talking or talking about inane things that are quite boring.
So -- I think if the plotting turned more into visceral plots -- Things that people could see and participate in -- It would be a different story. But it always felt like everyone was up to something (Which is great) and no one was actually doing anything (Which isn't great).
Quote from: Reiloth on September 14, 2016, 11:57:18 AM
I agree that the secrecy/cloak and dagger plots are great to read on paper, but for a game, can be exclusionary rather than inclusive.
I agree with this. Things need to be out in the open, for the maximum amount of people to have fun.
In the other thread, I posted about how I wanted to see a Stalinist/Pyongyang-conformist oppression.
I'd like it more if that was happening...but not really succeeding, because the city is in shambles and the government doesn't have the strength to pull it off.
Kind of like how North Korea is operating today, but worse. They talk a big game but there's still starvation and unrest.
Quote from: Large Hero on September 14, 2016, 12:16:38 PM
Quote from: Reiloth on September 14, 2016, 11:57:18 AM
I agree that the secrecy/cloak and dagger plots are great to read on paper, but for a game, can be exclusionary rather than inclusive.
I agree with this. Things need to be out in the open, for the maximum amount of people to have fun.
In the other thread, I posted about how I wanted to see a Stalinist/Pyongyang-conformist oppression.
I'd like it more if that was happening...but not really succeeding, because the city is in shambles and the government doesn't have the strength to pull it off.
Kind of like how North Korea is operating today, but worse. They talk a big game but there's still starvation and unrest.
This seems a little better than when I first read what you suggested, but I'm still not sure how that'd work out. Giving PCs a role they documentation-wise are bad at tends not to work out too well. All it takes is for state-aligned PCs to have enough power for it to succeed, on a PC level, anyway.
Quote from: Patuk on September 14, 2016, 12:42:35 PM
Quote from: Large Hero on September 14, 2016, 12:16:38 PM
Quote from: Reiloth on September 14, 2016, 11:57:18 AM
I agree that the secrecy/cloak and dagger plots are great to read on paper, but for a game, can be exclusionary rather than inclusive.
I agree with this. Things need to be out in the open, for the maximum amount of people to have fun.
In the other thread, I posted about how I wanted to see a Stalinist/Pyongyang-conformist oppression.
I'd like it more if that was happening...but not really succeeding, because the city is in shambles and the government doesn't have the strength to pull it off.
Kind of like how North Korea is operating today, but worse. They talk a big game but there's still starvation and unrest.
This seems a little better than when I first read what you suggested, but I'm still not sure how that'd work out. Giving PCs a role they documentation-wise are bad at tends not to work out too well. All it takes is for state-aligned PCs to have enough power for it to succeed, on a PC level, anyway.
IDK. I actually kind of agree with you.
I think it's more valuable, when these threads come up, to spitball ideas, which can either mature or be picked apart - as opposed to laying out some perfect plan. I actually didn't think of what I posted for longer than 30 seconds.
Because staff is ultimately going to do what they think is best, anyway. Debate and fodder are probably more useful for them than a golden scroll.
But I still think the "try Armageddon without psionics by disabling it in Tuluk" is an interesting idea.