Sometimes I think it'd be nice to know how much karma I have, without having to log into the game, check my "c" menu option, and then match the list with the website's breakdown of karma levels. I'd like to see other info too about my account.
I'm not asking for account notes or a karma review, I'm asking to see "what is, right now." Might look something like this:
Account Lizzie:
Joined in 2002
45 characters
Longest-lived (real time) 1 year, 7 months.
Longest-lived (play time) 64 days, 7 hours.
Karma level: 3
Most recent karma point granted: March 19, 2010
Additional karma slots: mul
Special apps pending: Malik the Mul
Available special apps: none
Date of special app age-out: November 7, 2016
Most recent karma review request: none
Most recent account review request: April 28, 2010
(the above is all made up)
So we can just see a general rundown of the last time we even asked for a review, whether or not we received it and when, how long ago did we last get any karma, how much we have, if we have special apps pending, if we have any available, when the old ones age out, etc. etc. Statistics and data, that either adjust or append automatically whenever a change is made. And we wouldn't have to request that the staff take any time to provide this information, it would be available on our account on the main website, maybe as an option next to "New Request."
Is this something of interest to anyone else?
+1.
It'd be neat to have your account info gathered up neatly. Not that I'd need it, but it seems like something that would make things more convenient.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 04, 2016, 08:28:16 AM
Sometimes I think it'd be nice to know how much karma I have, without having to log into the game, check my "c" menu option, and then match the list with the website's breakdown of karma levels. I'd like to see other info too about my account.
So curious. Why?
Karma doesn't generally change randomly or often, so short of forgetting how many karma one has after a long break, I'm not really sure how much of the other information you mention has much use. Is there a use for player file information that I'm not thinking of beyond knowing karma-count for future PC planning?
I'm not against the idea.
I'm also not going to champion it anytime soon.
It's something that isn't needed but wouldn't hurt anything, so how could I complain?
I give it a nod.
No special reason that I can think of. It's just one of those "it'd be neat to have a snapshot of my pfile statistics" things. I'm kinda geeky like that.
Eh. Nice idea, but for whitt's reasons, I don't really dig it.
Quote from: Barsook on August 04, 2016, 09:07:51 AM
Eh. Nice idea, but for whitt's reasons, I don't really dig it.
Quote from: whitt on August 04, 2016, 08:54:01 AM
Quote from: Lizzie on August 04, 2016, 08:28:16 AM
Sometimes I think it'd be nice to know how much karma I have, without having to log into the game, check my "c" menu option, and then match the list with the website's breakdown of karma levels. I'd like to see other info too about my account.
So curious. Why?
Karma doesn't generally change randomly or often, so short of forgetting how many karma one has after a long break, I'm not really sure how much of the other information you mention has much use. Is there a use for player file information that I'm not thinking of beyond knowing karma-count for future PC planning?
Not sure why you think the idea is exclusively about karma. There's a lot of info that can be included in the file, such as:
How many characters have been...
Warrior: 2
Ranger: 7
Assassin: 2
Burglar: 5
Merchant: 9
Elementalist: 14
...Vivaduan: 4
...Rukkkian: 7
...Whiran: 3
How many characters were killed by mobs/NPCs: 10
How many characters were killed by PCs: 25
How many characters were killed by user error (aka falling off the shield wall): 17
It's a handy file to have. After some thinking, I can come up with some actual use for it. If you feel "y'know, I play way too many rangers, I need to switch it up" you can check your file and see "actually, the last time I played a ranger was 4 years ago. I guess I just really like them so much I think about them more than any others. I'll go roll me up a ranger!" Or you can see "woah - all those merchants, and only one that I can remember who joined a clan. That's a good OOC goal for me to have this next PC - a merchant-guild PC who joins a clan!"
Again - it's not "about" karma. It's about access to general statistics about your pfile.
Eh.
Still a maybe.
I can understand being "disinterested" in the idea, or not caring one way or another. I just don't understand why someone would "not like it."
That moment when all of your "we don't really need this" posts come back to haunt you. 8)
Quote from: Lizzie on August 04, 2016, 10:17:57 AM
I can understand being "disinterested" in the idea, or not caring one way or another. I just don't understand why someone would "not like it."
The only downsides I see to it are
(a) opportunity cost, what else could be coded in the time it would take to come up with a UI and back-end interface for this. Especially if the pfile doesn't lend itself to this. Like... it's not on an easily accessible database.
(b) given the above cost in time and effort, is there a value and need?
and
(c) how much additional time will be spent by staff addressing issues that come up because someone thinks their pfile isn't accurate, when (b) is questionable.
I once was very upset with Morgenes. He raised my karma and never told me. I felt a little bit betrayed.
Sorry. couldnt resist. Seems like a cool idea. If it's something relatively easy to code.
Quote from: Dar on August 04, 2016, 11:10:43 AM
I once was very upset with Morgenes. He raised my karma and never told me. I felt a little bit betrayed.
Sorry. couldnt resist. Seems like a cool idea. If it's something relatively easy to code.
From this day forward he was known as:
Less-Genes
*badum* *tsssss*
Quote from: Desertman on August 04, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
Quote from: Dar on August 04, 2016, 11:10:43 AM
I once was very upset with Morgenes. He raised my karma and never told me. I felt a little bit betrayed.
Sorry. couldnt resist. Seems like a cool idea. If it's something relatively easy to code.
From this day forward he was known as:
Less-Genes
*badum* *tsssss*
I hope you feel ashamed of yourself ;D
.
I like the idea of at least being able to get a Player Snapshot by logging into the system on the main page. If it has the ability to talk to the PFile database, to pull either real-time information or a snapshot taken once a month on all Pfiles. No account notes, no karma specifically, just some non-sensitive data that is contained in the Pfile.
I'm kinda for it. It'd be nice to know just what my ratio of warrior to merchant is (abysmal).
Quote from: Riev on August 04, 2016, 01:10:04 PM
I'm kinda for it. It'd be nice to know just what my ratio of warrior to merchant is (abysmal).
So... why not just request your player notes? Again. How much does this information really change?
Quote from: whitt on August 04, 2016, 01:24:09 PM
Quote from: Riev on August 04, 2016, 01:10:04 PM
I'm kinda for it. It'd be nice to know just what my ratio of warrior to merchant is (abysmal).
So... why not just request your player notes? Again. How much does this information really change?
The only issue I see with getting all this information from your account notes (because I believe most of it is there) is that it becomes a bit tedious to sift through all the info when you have a few dozen (or more) PCs.
That's what I do now, when I'm curious about something like how many 'this' I've played, or how many times 'that' has killed me. It is a little bit appealing to have an option to look at all these sorts of stats in an easily accessed format.
Quote from: whitt on August 04, 2016, 01:24:09 PM
Quote from: Riev on August 04, 2016, 01:10:04 PM
I'm kinda for it. It'd be nice to know just what my ratio of warrior to merchant is (abysmal).
So... why not just request your player notes? Again. How much does this information really change?
What it does, hopefully, is allow the information to be pulled in real time. So you're not requesting player notes, which are low priority, and have to be combed through to de-identify any other players or things mentioned specifically for other staff.
There are certainly some less-sensitive parts of the Pfile that could be requested on a non-wheneverStaffHasTheFreeTime basis. The information being requested DOESN'T change that often, which is why I'm suggesting its a once-a-month snapshot. It doesn't even have to be a real-time DB pull, just a static file for each requesting player.
I don't know how the pfile is organized, but I'd like to think the addition of one sub-table, that just contains the references to certain fields in the pfile table could be used to print off a decent static report.
No, it wouldn't take 5minutes. Its just something that would be nice. An idea. A conception that might be a decent fluff addition like the bio entries were (which, honestly, was a MUCH more necessary tool, for those few who use it)
It just sounds like 'Do the work for me Staff' instead of 'i'll look through my player account notes'?
Not very interested in this as a time sink idea.
Quote from: Reiloth on August 04, 2016, 01:55:17 PM
It just sounds like 'Do the work for me Staff' instead of 'i'll look through my player account notes'?
Not very interested in this as a time sink idea.
I believe what Lizzie suggested was: "Statistics and data, that either adjust or append automatically whenever a change is made. And we wouldn't have to request that the staff take any time to provide this information, it would be available on our account on the main website, maybe as an option next to "New Request." which is a little different than your paraphased "Do the work for me, Staff."
This already exists. You search in your email for "Account Notes" or "Karma" and read the latest one.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on August 04, 2016, 02:43:48 PM
This already exists. You search in your email for "Account Notes" or "Karma" and read the latest one.
Every Six months.
If you've requested it, and staff have taken the time to weed through everything.
Either 200+ people put in requests for their pFile every six months, or a tool could be designed that gives out the information a staffer allows in an Account Notes request (since they are now separate from Karma Review, what need IS there for a note request?)
I can't help but feel the disagreement is "I don't want it because I have long lived PCs" or "Staff shouldn't waste their time adding things to my experience". Either its a good idea, a bad idea, or it needs more work. Not all good ideas get implemented. I just don't yet see where its a BAD idea, just a "not likely to get implemented" idea.
Does that sound about right?
I think it's a pointless addition that doesn't actually add anything new or would measurably improve anyone's experience. Implementing it would just take resources from other projects. So chalk me up for "Bad idea."
Quote from: Riev on August 04, 2016, 02:55:10 PM
Either 200+ people put in requests for their pFile every six months, or a tool could be designed that gives out the information a staffer allows in an Account Notes request (since they are now separate from Karma Review, what need IS there for a note request?)
Do 200+ people apply for account notes every six months, and are they doing it to run logistics on the guild configs of their latest PCs? Somehow, I feel this statement is a fallacy, but good marks for the efforting.
If nessalin feels like coding it, that's his prerogative, but it seems underwhelming compared to the awesome things he's been up to. Since we live in a black and white cartoon and ideas can only be good or bad, mark me down for bad.
Everything takes time, whether or not people think it does. Something like this takes time to code and implement. I'd rather Nessalin and coders be working on the shit they find intriguing and roll it out (wear loc changes for example) than something rather frivolous like this.
Bad Idea +1, BadSkeelz Camp.
Last time I checked my account notes was in 2013. I don't really want my account notes. Most times, I don't want to know what the staff has to say about my characters, good or bad. But I do like to know how frequently I choose hunter as a subguild, compared with scavenger or a crafting type, how often I try a burglar, maybe even compare the longevity of different main guilds with other main guilds. I could run a spreadsheet, but if the website's database could do it for me, and for everyone, why should we do it ourselves?
And no I am not asking for anything. This is an idea. Not a request. It's a "wouldn't it be nifty if..." thing.
Yes, but this is definitely one of those things you can easily handle yourself with Excel, and it adds nothing to the game other than to hand hold you through that process.
Quote from: SuchDragonWow on August 04, 2016, 08:24:33 PM
Yes, but this is definitely one of those things you can easily handle yourself with Excel, and it adds nothing to the game other than to hand hold you through that process.
Uh, no I can't. If I could do it "easily" I wouldn't have even come up with the idea. I have 33 characters, the last 7 of which don't appear in my account notes, because I haven't asked for account notes since 2013 (as I already pointed out) - I know there are players who have several dozens of characters - how "easy" is it, exactly, to have them write up an excel file that has cross-referencing, so they can see "how many of X" have I had in the past "y" years, or "which of my X characters had this Z subguild" or "of all the Z subguild characters I've made, how many were dwarves?"
Not sure how many different ways I can say this until you actually understand what I'm saying - it would be a handy tool to have. It might even be a handy tool for the staff to have, for their own data-collecting purposes. Maybe they want to see how many times Player Amos has requested dwarves, and of those dwarven PCs, how many of them were stored before a RL month was over. Or maybe they are considering removing karma from someone and want to see if that player really does roll up as many whirans as they think they do - and they just want a simple count, but that player has been playing since 2006 and has over 100 characters they have to check on. When instead, if this type of tool existed, they could simply search the database for Player Amos Whiran Count and it'd bring it up.
Database is not spreadsheet. This isn't something you can easily to on a spreadsheet, and databases aren't "easy to do." There already exists the player database, yours is called a Pfile. It already exists. My suggestion is to create a tool that provides data-mining of your own pfile with regards to numeric statistics.
I guess it's pretty easy for me to hit that list characters option and remember the guild and subguild of all of them. Maybe not as easy for people who have like, 100 chars a year. I still don't think it adds much to the game.
Quote from: SuchDragonWow on August 04, 2016, 09:08:53 PM
I guess it's pretty easy for me to hit that list characters option and remember the guild and subguild of all of them. Maybe not as easy for people who have like, 100 chars a year. I still don't think it adds much to the game.
It adds NOTHING to the game. It's not a game idea. It's an OOC tool idea for players (and potentially staff). Sort of like when the staff added "karma review" to the request tool options. It wasn't a needed thing, it adds nothing to the game. But it was a neat idea and someone on staff tossed that on the request tool list. Also like the new (comparatively) website wasn't a needed thing, it added nothing to the game, but it was a great idea and someone felt it was worthwhile to do it, and so it got done.
This is just another idea among the myriad of ideas players have come up with over the years.
I'm certainly not against it. It has no downsides.
I don't see any particular reason not to. But it's not essential, either, which means I'd like it to be one of those coder projects they can pick up at their discretion as a neat-and-handy thing that isn't stressful to work on.
Quote from: Armaddict on August 04, 2016, 09:25:07 PM
I'm certainly not against it. It has no downsides.
I don't see any particular reason not to. But it's not essential, either, which means I'd like it to be one of those coder projects they can pick up at their discretion as a neat-and-handy thing that isn't stressful to work on.
Thanks, that's pretty much how I saw it in my head when I was thinking about it. Earlier today I was thinking my next character would be a ranger. But then I worried almost all my characters have been rangers. And then I wondered - is that even true? How many of my PCs have been rangers? I checked and saw - not all that many really, they've just accounted for my most long-lasting characters, so they're more memorable. Then I wondered what kind of "record" I have for long-lasting characters - which were like, the top 3 guild/subguilds for them? I wondered - have I ever actually rolled up a warrior? I couldn't remember if I had or not. And the more I got to wondering, the more I thought - boy I wish I had a way to just pull the info up on my pfile. And lo, the idea was born.
Sorry, kiddo, maybe I was giving you a little too much of that Lizzie treatment. Of course, it's a lovely idea, let's order two.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on August 04, 2016, 02:57:31 PM
I think it's a pointless addition that doesn't actually add anything new or would measurably improve anyone's experience. Implementing it would just take resources from other projects. So chalk me up for "Bad idea."
Quote from: Large Hero on August 04, 2016, 10:26:08 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on August 04, 2016, 02:57:31 PM
I think it's a pointless addition that doesn't actually add anything new or would measurably improve anyone's experience. Implementing it would just take resources from other projects. So chalk me up for "Bad idea."
I think I should have said it wouldn't "measurably improve my experience." That'd be fairer.
What an interesting thought. Thank you for sharing.
Now here is a list of thirty-eight reason why I think your idea should never become a thing, and how awful it would be if staff actually implemented this.
#1. Just kidding.
In all seriousness, I think it's neat, and would probably use it often.
Quote from: Barsook on August 04, 2016, 10:27:30 PM
Quote from: Large Hero on August 04, 2016, 10:26:08 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on August 04, 2016, 02:57:31 PM
I think it's a pointless addition that doesn't actually add anything new or would measurably improve anyone's experience. Implementing it would just take resources from other projects. So chalk me up for "Bad idea."
I still can't get behind the idea of "I say its a bad idea because I want staff to work on other things".
Doesn't make it a bad idea, just means you don't like it. Say you don't like the idea, that you wouldn't use it. That's fine. Personally, I'd like to know how often I roll a warrior, and if I've ever ACTUALLY played a ranger. I could track these on my own, but the database ALREADY TRACKS IT. The information exists, without me trying to remember, or request notes I can only get every 6 months as it is.
I think the idea is sound, if someone wanted to put something together on their off time to brush up on PHP/MYSQL skills or something, I'd certainly be for it. I don't think it'll happen, but if it does, NEAT.
Karma changes infrequently enough that it is a waste of time even debating this subject further.
Quote from: Inks on August 07, 2016, 01:32:31 AM
Karma changes infrequently enough that it is a waste of time even debating this subject further.
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3504311/good-day-sir-o.gif)
;D
Heheh. ;)
Quote from: Inks on August 07, 2016, 01:32:31 AM
Karma changes infrequently enough that it is a waste of time even debating this subject further.
So you're saying that among all the possibilities that this idea could provide, you didn't bother to read any of the entire thread except for the word "karma" and decided that this is what the thread is about, and you disagree with anything involving this word.
Got it.
No, I think he's saying having all these changes just so you can check things while you're in game or see if your karma has moved (somehow without being notified by Staff, which I think you are 100% of the time?) is sort of pointless.
Forget karma then. My idea no longer involves checking karma at all. It is still about all the other things I pointed out, that a few other people think is a neat idea. And so far, the only people who think it's a bad idea, do so because - they aren't interested in it? Seriously?
I just don't think the time cost:benefit ratio is a good one.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 08, 2016, 07:30:56 PM
so far, the only people who think it's a bad idea, do so because - they aren't interested in it? Seriously?
More because of the opportunity cost of having someone code, test, and maintain it plus adding staff time respond to someone thinking they found something that is inaccurate. I don't think anyone would truly object to being able to see their own metadata if it was there. Kind of like no one complains about the bio entry functionality.
Time cost is incredibly small. It's using getters that are (or should be) already in the code to retrieve information and put it into strings, then format them.
This is basically a more advanced version of the 'hello world' project.
I am fundamentally suspicious of anyone but Nessalin and other staff saying "time cost is incredibly small."
Quote from: BadSkeelz on August 08, 2016, 07:51:13 PM
I am fundamentally suspicious of anyone but Nessalin and other staff saying "time cost is incredibly small."
+1
Okay.
But in that case, using time consumption as an argument against it, with no knowledge of even the simplistics of the process, is likewise not exactly the greatest.
I do use that argument in some of mine, but that's after evaluating all the ways I can think of for it to impact existing code.
This is plugging a new option into the menu that accesses your pfile information that is already in existence and formats it into a simple readout.
Some of the more extensive options, i.e. Number of warriors, etc, would perhaps require new variables in each pfile and an update to them.
So treating it like some massive resource dump, at least without a staffer calling it that, is a presumption. However, under the stipulation that it's a purely voluntary project idea for some coding staffer who just wants something smaller to work on, or even to work on while they go through the pfile system anyway...I again point out that there's no real downside to having the idea for it in the same queue as the other projects that are not currently being worked on/will only be worked on with a volunteer or as is convenient.
All actions take time.
This action has no discernible benefit or payoff compared to other things staff can do.
Therefore it's a waste. At best, I will say I would rather staff work on other things like animations or additional objects in the game than this. Once they're done with that they can work on something like this.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on August 08, 2016, 08:51:14 PM
All actions take time.
This action has no discernible benefit or payoff compared to other things staff can do.
Therefore it's a waste. At best, I will say I would rather staff work on other things like animations or additional objects in the game than this. Once they're done with that they can work on something like this.
...that's...exactly what voluntary and as convenient establishes. You're just insisting that you put a 'no' in front of it.
Quote from: Armaddict on August 08, 2016, 08:58:09 PM
You're just insisting that you put a 'no' in front of it.
I am admittedly cool with that.
Yeah. If this was a choice between coding new equipment slots or some metadata thing that half (or more) of us would probably never even use, which would you choose? That's the point being made.
Quote from: SuchDragonWow on August 08, 2016, 09:57:48 PM
Yeah. If this was a choice between coding new equipment slots or some metadata thing that half (or more) of us would probably never even use, which would you choose? That's the point being made.
It isn't a choice between one or the other. It's an idea, that some of us think is a neat idea. No one is asking for the staff to implement it. No one is requesting that the staff set aside some of their time to work on it, or even to discuss it on their staff boards.
(https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/tumblr_le9ae6klus1qe0eclo1_r5_500.gif?w=500&h=241)
While the purpose confuses me, other players seem to like the idea. I guess I can understand how it'd be a neat thing for players. Lizzie says there would also be staff-side benefits, if I'm reading her posts correctly... I'm unsure how exactly that would be of benefit, but one set of possible benefits comes to mind almost immediately. Analyzing player preferences could grant some insight as to that player's playstyle and preferences and how it interacts with the playerbase as a whole, and get a sense for how varied or narrow their character concepts are, which may provide some perspective when making decisions on animations, account notes and karma addition or subtraction, or selection for role calls. If they don't already have a method of pulling up this information quickly and easily, then I can see how this would be a boon.
If they do have one, I suppose the idea is to let a player look over their track record, and would involve less work to implement. One possible benefit I can see is being able to check your track record and make a mental note along the lines of, "Well, looks like I've played a bunch of dwarven warriors, maybe I should try something else to keep things fresh for a bit." or "WOW, I've never had a pickpocket last more than five days played, maybe I need to consider my playstyle if I really want to get in the thick of things."
Quote from: Dunetrade55 on August 10, 2016, 11:33:41 AM
While the purpose confuses me, other players seem to like the idea. I guess I can understand how it'd be a neat thing for players. Lizzie says there would also be staff-side benefits, if I'm reading her posts correctly... I'm unsure how exactly that would be of benefit, but one set of possible benefits comes to mind almost immediately. Analyzing player preferences could grant some insight as to that player's playstyle and preferences and how it interacts with the playerbase as a whole, and get a sense for how varied or narrow their character concepts are, which may provide some perspective when making decisions on animations, account notes and karma addition or subtraction, or selection for role calls. If they don't already have a method of pulling up this information quickly and easily, then I can see how this would be a boon.
If they do have one, I suppose the idea is to let a player look over their track record, and would involve less work to implement. One possible benefit I can see is being able to check your track record and make a mental note along the lines of, "Well, looks like I've played a bunch of dwarven warriors, maybe I should try something else to keep things fresh for a bit." or "WOW, I've never had a pickpocket last more than five days played, maybe I need to consider my playstyle if I really want to get in the thick of things."
Bingo, on all accounts.