So these are all over in the game, and they go on your waist. Today I decided to google image search on breechguard and, um, didn't get anywhere.
So, what is a breechguard? Anyone got an image/link?
Quote from: nauta on June 06, 2016, 04:34:59 PM
So these are all over in the game, and they go on your waist. Today I decided to google image search on breechguard and, um, didn't get anywhere.
So, what is a breechguard? Anyone got an image/link?
(http://www.medievalarmour.com/images/Product/large/MCI-2571.png)
Quote from: Asmoth on June 06, 2016, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: nauta on June 06, 2016, 04:34:59 PM
So these are all over in the game, and they go on your waist. Today I decided to google image search on breechguard and, um, didn't get anywhere.
So, what is a breechguard? Anyone got an image/link?
(http://www.medievalarmour.com/images/Product/large/MCI-2571.png)
Wait, I thought those were Tassets? What are Tassets?
(http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/images/Product/large/MCI-284.png)
Maybe some fancy pants?
Tassets: Plates that typically hang from breastplates or faulds, to protect the upper thigh.
Faulds: the bottom of a breastplate, jointed and attached separately, to cover the hips and lower abdomen (midriff).
Breastplate: armor made to cover the chest.
Breechguard: the part of armor that usually hangs off the tassets in the middle to cover the groin area (in short, a penis protector, or armored jock strap)
Breeches: short trousers that extend just past the knee, often loose at the upper leg and snug around the calf.
The breechguard and tassets can be hinged from a belt instead of off the breastplate.
Quote from: Esadal on June 08, 2016, 03:47:05 AM
Wait, I thought those were Tassets? What are Tassets?
A fauld is like a short metal skirt to protect the groin and hips. A tasset is a metal plate either fixed or hanging down which connects to the fauld.
The fauld became popular as more knights in heavy armor fought on foot. You can't wear a fauld properly on horseback unless it is loose and articulated, in which case it doesn't provide as much protection.
Tactics for fighting these armored men often involved slashing at the less-armored thighs (usually by poorly armored halberdiers) and that evolved the production of the tasset.
Eventually knights on foot became so heavily armored that they just couldn't move properly and that produced the guisarme-voulge which could be used to pull them off balance or unhorse them. At which point they usually laid on the ground until someone came to help them up or to kill them.
Combat in the Early Middle Ages wasn't particularly about moving fast. It was about holding ground. And a group of aristocrats in heavy armor could hold ground like nobody's business. That is until the crossbow came back from China and large mercenary forces started to form around its usage. The longbow was far more versatile than a crossbow, but you can't just put a longbow into anyone's hands and expect them to shoot it well.
tldr:
Breechguard = Cock Armor
I have to dissagree with the argument that medieval armoured fighting was slow, a suit of full plate armour usually only weighed about 25kg which is equivalent to a modern day solidiers kit, and dont forget that these dudes wore this stuff nearly every day training to move in some form of armour, since before they could swing a sword. These dudes were very good at walking and even running the same pace an unarmoured man could, if clumsier obviously
Edit: I do agree that it was about knocking them down and finishing them that way though.
Quote from: Desertman on June 08, 2016, 11:53:57 AM
tldr:
Breechguard = Cock Armor
And I assume that the difference between a Breechguard and a Codpiece is that a codpiece has more of a curve to it, right?
Quote from: Miradus on June 08, 2016, 10:15:18 AM
Eventually knights on foot became so heavily armored that they just couldn't move properly and that produced the guisarme-voulge which could be used to pull them off balance or unhorse them. At which point they usually laid on the ground until someone came to help them up or to kill them..
I make plate armour and all the reading/research I've done has featured authors calling this kind of thing out as bullshit again and again.. Perhaps you are an expert in this in which case I'm sure you know better than me but I'm not sure you're correct there.
Quote from: ghostymudy on June 09, 2016, 01:57:13 AM
Quote from: Miradus on June 08, 2016, 10:15:18 AM
Eventually knights on foot became so heavily armored that they just couldn't move properly and that produced the guisarme-voulge which could be used to pull them off balance or unhorse them. At which point they usually laid on the ground until someone came to help them up or to kill them..
I make plate armour and all the reading/research I've done has featured authors calling this kind of thing out as bullshit again and again.. Perhaps you are an expert in this in which case I'm sure you know better than me but I'm not sure you're correct there.
Fit people are pretty maneuverable in plate armor. Here are some examples complete with Dark Soulsesque fat rolls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc
Bonus lindybeige on plate armor who is also awesome on a lot of other topics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8a_sHn-vEA
Quote from: Esadal on June 09, 2016, 01:22:50 AM
Quote from: Desertman on June 08, 2016, 11:53:57 AM
tldr:
Breechguard = Cock Armor
And I assume that the difference between a Breechguard and a Codpiece is that a codpiece has more of a curve to it, right?
A codpiece is actually more of an armored athletic cup if I understand it correctly. At least, that's how I've always treated it. It's also cock armor.
Quote from: ghostymudy on June 09, 2016, 01:57:13 AM
Quote from: Miradus on June 08, 2016, 10:15:18 AM
Eventually knights on foot became so heavily armored that they just couldn't move properly and that produced the guisarme-voulge which could be used to pull them off balance or unhorse them. At which point they usually laid on the ground until someone came to help them up or to kill them..
I make plate armour and all the reading/research I've done has featured authors calling this kind of thing out as bullshit again and again.. Perhaps you are an expert in this in which case I'm sure you know better than me but I'm not sure you're correct there.
Not an expert, no, but I read a lot of original sources which describe the battles of the time periods (I'm a history buff). Eyewitness accounts describe situations similar to what I'm talking about. Did it happen every time or with every combination of possible armor that was fielded throughout several hundred years? Probably not. But it happened often enough that it gets mentioned as a problem in the development of the armors.
I'll also add that the guys I know who compete in that sort of stuff are in pretty good shape but there's a significant difference between their first bout of the day and the seventh.
I would assume there's also a big difference between your efficacy for a four minute Youtube video versus your efficacy on day six of the seven day Battle of Tours where you're fighting lightly-armored Moors who hold the high ground.
Can't stop won't stop get on my level Miradus my power level is over 9,000. >:(
A more interesting thought experiment is sticking to the actual setting and worldbuilding.
One of my complaints (I have a couple) about Armageddon/Dark Sun setting is that way too of the gear and equipment is simply a bone/shell/hide version of a metalworked piece from the Middle Ages. Why is there not methods of production completely of their own based around the materials at hand?
In a society with such extremely limited sources of metal, why would they be trying to retrofit those inferior materials to something they would never have had in great supply in the first place? Or if they did have it, that was thousands of years ago and it ain't coming back, baby, so forget about it.
There have historically been some pretty high-end civilizations which did not greatly develop metalworking. The first that comes to mind is the Aztecs who get a bum rap from history since most of what we know about them came from unreliable eyewitnesses. Or the Incas who were much less warlike but never bothered to invent the wheel since they had no really good domesticated animals and lived in mountainous terrain.
Dark Sun has always felt to me like a hodge-podge of poorly thought out ideas. It's not quite as bad as Forgotten Realms with elements dragged kicking and screaming from sources as wide as real world mythologies and Lovecraft, but it's not as smoothly put together as Greyhawk.
Then compare it to worldbuilders like Brandon Sanderson or Tolkien.
Quote from: Miradus on June 09, 2016, 11:59:55 AM
It's not quite as bad as Forgotten Realms
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/19/193ef2ed9c38c0c9e7ec45d04f6ab0b05c19a69219da42c0d3673e023c343a3a.jpg)
C'mon. That's a fun discussion worth more than a pic. :)
There are elements I LOVE about Faerun. I really dig the Underdark and I love Chult. After that? Not so much.
You know Dark Sun had an armor optimization skill, right? So the idea that Dark Sun armour was just platemail made of beetle butts and stuff is a a bit off to me.
Modern day army body armor with groin protector. Probably the effective equivalent of a breechguard (some have a strap that passes between the legs to secure it):
(http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/954/079/481/481079954_713.jpg)
However, "breech" in the old sense probably means glutes more than groin, so it could conceivably be like a skirt than hangs down in the back:
(https://armstreet.com/catalogue/full/western-brigandine-fauld-skirt-armor-the-kings-guard.jpg)
Or a rear fauld (part below the waist):
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/77/55/df/7755dfc611f03045eef63426ac2e3e53.jpg)
Edited to add: The mdesc here is gonna be your friend to tell you which side it protects. Could be either, though most, I believe, are front facing.
Quote from: Miradus on June 09, 2016, 01:04:27 PM
C'mon. That's a fun discussion worth more than a pic. :)
There are elements I LOVE about Faerun. I really dig the Underdark and I love Chult. After that? Not so much.
I don't even know who you are anymore.
You aren't the man I married.
Quote from: Miradus on June 09, 2016, 09:46:18 AM
I'll also add that the guys I know who compete in that sort of stuff are in pretty good shape but there's a significant difference between their first bout of the day and the seventh.
I would assume there's also a big difference between your efficacy for a four minute Youtube video versus your efficacy on day six of the seven day Battle of Tours where you're fighting lightly-armored Moors who hold the high ground.
The battle of Tours also predates the use of plate armour in Europe by several centuries, so.. Not a good example.