Armageddon General Discussion Board

Currently, you are welcome to paint any item that has a basis in another craft. You may make a vase out of clay, and paint it. You may make a statue, and paint it. You can make a bas relief, and paint it. You could make a locket, and paint it. So on and so forth. However, the requirements are that the craft has to based in the actual craft it uses, rather then just having it be a vehicle for paint. You should also probably have some skill and practice at actually drawing and painting things, if it is a significant goal of the piece.

However, there is no "drawing" skill or "painting" skill. There is no way in the current situation to make a lasting painting or drawing object.


Let's talk about options to fix that:

• Written Paintings/Drawings -- Using the code for read/write, allow drawings/paintings to be created, giving everyone the skill to "read" them. This allows for maximum flexibility in what can be described, and utilizes pre-existing code.

• Line Paintings/Drawings -- Using new code, implement a drawing/painting that allows you to make a new object that lasts, with the number of lines equal to your skill level.

• Craft Paintings/Drawings -- Make painting a crafting skill that works like any other crafting skill, and leave it to the crafters to appropriately role-play the specific details of their paintings. New and unique paintings would be possible as normal Mastercrafts.

• Tattoo-Like Paintings/Drawings -- Utilize the same code that custom tattoos use to add specific words to their sdesc that link back into a customized mdesc, instead of creating tattoos, create coded objects.

So there's some possibilities. Now, let's talk about the pros and cons of each.


Written Paintings/Drawings

Pros:

• Utilizes existing code that would only have to be tweaked to work; everything's already there
• Allows for maximum flexibility, makes anything possible

Cons:

• Has no check to insure that RP from "apprentice" to "master" is being done realistically
• Doesn't have a limit on new objects, meaning MC-level pieces could be made outside of typical 30 day restrictions
• Doesn't have any sort of timer per piece, allowing mass production of unique objects
• Writing code is buggy, so making widely-created writing objects could cause problems

Line Paintings/Drawings

Pros:

• Better enables a check on skill level by having it connected to object complexity
• Allows flexibility in making realistically varied pieces of art

Cons:

• Would require extra coding efforts and attentions, drawing staff time away from other projects (coders are limited)
• Doesn't have a timer per piece, meaning that unique objects could be mass produced
• Would need a new way to determine if someone advances a skill level, doesn't behave in traditional manner

Craft Paintings/Drawings

Pros:

• Would have a strict determination of level advancement matching all other skills
• Limits the number of unique items that can be made, making painting/drawing more even with other craft skills
• Uses pre-existing code

Cons:

• Would have limited flexibility, as customized drawings/paintings would be impossible until the Master level, as MCs
• Would require a massive amount of items build for it
• Would have a hard time functioning exactly like other crafts--"craft paper" could produce unlimited possibilities, unless code was tweaked

Tattoo-Like Paintings/Drawings


Pros:

• Provides a balance between unique items and a definited set of items; provides limited customization
• Evens the playing field with other craft skills, allowing no truly unique items to be made without an MC
• Uses some pre-existing code and concepts

Cons:

• Would still require a massive amount of items to be written
• Would need pre-existing code to be adjusted; this could be complex
• Would require a new set of commands to create the correct items, or modified commands based on old concepts

Finally. My thread. I'll edit this post after I take drugs.

I feel like having a limited number of lines, with Mastercrafters getting 'all the lines ever forever needed so a lot' would be enough to offset things.
And if people start doing "This is a masterpiece of a tree"
Well.
No one is going to take it seriously and it shouldn't.
Just add details and guidelines.
Think of it as playing a dwarf, but ...your painting things. ....that made no sense. I tried.

ALso maybe you could add a 'drawing' and 'reading reading' code.
People with the 'draw' flag can only read drawings and the like.
Like city sneak and wilderness.

Quote from: Jihelu on November 16, 2015, 07:45:57 PMALso maybe you could add a 'drawing' and 'reading reading' code.
People with the 'draw' flag can only read drawings and the like.
Like city sneak and wilderness.

That's the basic idea around the "writing painting" would work. Instead of writing a language (sirihish, cavilish, etc), you'd have a writing skill set for "paintings". Everyone would be able to read them.

I think this might actually need some coded adjustment, as right now I think read/write is ONE skill, and it would be need to be split into two, so that not everyone could make paintings.

QuoteI feel like having a limited number of lines, with Mastercrafters getting 'all the lines ever forever needed so a lot' would be enough to offset things.
And if people start doing "This is a masterpiece of a tree"
Well.
No one is going to take it seriously and it shouldn't.
Just add details and guidelines.

This is closer to the "Line Paintings/Drawings" idea. Right now, writing code has no line limit at all. So without code changes, you couldn't just use writing code for paintings. You could limit the amount of lines available depending on the type of object used (shitty canvas has a shitty line limit), but that runs the risk of some novice painter getting elite materials and making whatever they want.

I'm also not sure how I feel about giving anyone the ability to make as many new objects as they want, even with a set line limit. Why should painting get this when no other craft skill does? If I want to make a previously-unmade shitty piece of clothing, I have to use an MC slot. Why should paintings get a free pass for making massive amounts of shitty, sub-part objects?

I'm also going to add another idea to the main post for options. Stay tuned.


Edit:

I finished the edit in the original post, adding an idea to make a painting/drawing craft that's flexible, based off the customized tattoo code.

For example, you could have "style options" (stylized, tribal, realistic, abstract), and "object options" (raptor, carru, fruit bowl, figure). Thus, you could make "a drawing of a stylized raptor" or you could made "a drawing of a realistic raptor".

I don't know how hard adapting that code would be, probably harder then we'd think, knowing code.

What if using the "draw" command (i.e. functioning exactly like write, except it's a hidden, universally understood r/w skill) simply incurred a timer?

"You have already created a painting; please wait a realistic amount of time before attempting to do another."

Quote from: Delirium on November 16, 2015, 08:30:44 PM
What if using the "draw" command (i.e. functioning exactly like write, except it's a hidden, universally understood r/w skill) simply incurred a timer?

"You have already created a painting; please wait a realistic amount of time before attempting to do another."

I think that could be a nice solution for at least the problem of making too many too quickly.

What do you think a good length of time for such a timer would be?

24 RL hours seems fine to me.

Also, this may be a non-issue as bards (w/ instrument playing, etc) are under no such restraints, either in artistic creation or in proving skill gain.

They're just expected to be responsible with it, which they generally are and if they're not, they're talked to about it.

Even things without coded skills.
Acrobatics.
Juggling.
People expect you to not be a dumb fuck with them.

craft brush dye dye dye dye into a magnificent painting of fire

craft brush box.of.paint.i.know.i.saw.in.tuluk.that.one.time parchment.that.was.in.the.same.shop into a gorgeous landscape.


Change the "dyeing" skill, perhaps, to something more generalized like "Technicolor Artist" or even just "dye work" which could, feasibly, explain the process of creating a painting. Master the dyeing skill, boom, drawing and painting mastercrafts.

Unfortunately, it would take a long time to be a Master, really oddly specific, and still rely on just creating objects for things you would probably one-off. I'd be for a semi-longer lasting scribble command but its not mobile. The ideal fix would be R/W Art (novice) that only goes up on viewing (reading) paintings. Only true masters get the full text, everyone else just gets a garbled mess they can only assume is "trees".

Quote from: Delirium on November 16, 2015, 09:39:48 PMAlso, this may be a non-issue as bards (w/ instrument playing, etc) are under no such restraints, either in artistic creation or in proving skill gain.

They're just expected to be responsible with it, which they generally are and if they're not, they're talked to about it.

Quote from: Jihelu on November 16, 2015, 09:42:30 PM
Even things without coded skills. Acrobatics. Juggling. People expect you to not be a dumb fuck with them.

Yeah, but the difference is that all of those don't produce tangible and lasting items. If someone is irresponsible with playing a musical instrument or juggling, it's really not going to have the same type of impact that someone making a lot of unique items would have.

I think that the timer would help and that guidelines/rules would help as well as has been suggested by folks.

More importantly to me is the issue of fairness. Is it fair to have a craft that you can make unique things (even shitty things) when you can't do it with other crafts? That kind of gives painting a privileged status just on an OOC capability level.

Quote from: Riev on November 16, 2015, 09:49:37 PMChange the "dyeing" skill, perhaps, to something more generalized like "Technicolor Artist" or even just "dye work" which could, feasibly, explain the process of creating a painting. Master the dyeing skill, boom, drawing and painting mastercrafts.

Personally, I think that dying is a completely different skill then painting. The only thing they really have in common is the pigments, which can be turned into dye or turned into paintings paint.

The process of using water and soaking cloth to get dye to stick versus the ability to take paints and use a brush to create a masterpiece are completely different in my mind.

Quote from: Riev on November 16, 2015, 09:49:37 PMUnfortunately, it would take a long time to be a Master, really oddly specific, and still rely on just creating objects for things you would probably one-off. I'd be for a semi-longer lasting scribble command but its not mobile. The ideal fix would be R/W Art (novice) that only goes up on viewing (reading) paintings. Only true masters get the full text, everyone else just gets a garbled mess they can only assume is "trees".

I don't really understand this suggestion. Why can some people not see paintings and others can?


Edited to fix a word. My bad.

To the former, there are certain herbs in game described as "Fixers" that, presumably, are added to pigments to allow the colors to fix to parchment. I was just thinking of combining/expanding dyeing because for the most part, its a skill only used to colorize feathers. And if you can predictably (and evenly) colorize feathers, I think you'd at least be able to paint.

The latter, was more of a joke aimed at "You just don't get it" artistic people. Only a R/W Art (Master) could truly see what a painter was going for. Novices just see "a painting of trees" and the mdesc is garbled junk. It was funny to me, and not really a suggestion :(

Stick a line after the desc saying what the quality is.