Armageddon General Discussion Board

Desert humans, should they be a new race option given with the Desert elf Karma? Or should the new race never exist?

Its clear, that people do evolve to there enviroment. If there are desert elves, why not Desert humans? Now, i understand elves would be better in the desert, so, how about desert humans if people like the idea have the following:

*Lower movement points taken when walking in the desert.
Natives in real life have always been able to move well compared
to city people in the forests, etc they get use to it.

*Lower water need, not to the extreme elves get, just lower then normal humans.

Thats all i can think of right now, is it worth it? Can any of you add suggestions to it? Of course, at a glance it might just seem like a way to avoid the social stigma of Desert elves, but i dont feel it is, in no way would i expect to see Desert humans at the same level as a Desert elf, but it would give a more open way to rp things, such as muations, tribal humans etc.

I voted no, why, simple, Notice elves and humans can breed and the offspring is not sterile, I think elves ARE what humans evolved into to survive the wastes.

I'd rather see a wilderness version of dwarf myself, Lighter build maybe, which would translate into lower str, higher dex, give them even higher endurance, pump the regen a bit for hp and allow them to regen stam while standing, lower movement costs on flat or rocky areas. maybe give them the lowered water use.

Hey, elves have the flatlands, halflings the forest, gith got the deserts, give dwarves the rocks:)

Personally I think this would be idiotic if it was implemented. I think that there would be no difference between them because...

1. Humans normally ride mounts.

2. I couldn't see any humans living in the desert.

Need I say more.

Quote2. I couldn't see any humans living in the desert.

There are tribes of humans in the desert.

Quote2. I couldn't see any humans living in the desert.

Well, then you need to open your eyes. There are human desert tribes already.

Anyways, one thing to remember is that evolution takes a jagillion years. Why? Just because a species needs something to survive, doesn't mean it'll get it. Why do you think stuff keeps going extinct (well, other than because we kill it, heh). If the temperature drops 30 degrees in Earth's atmosphere, and frogs suddenly wish they had fur, it doesn't mean they'll -get- fur. At least not until a mutant frog with fur is born, and he gets put to stud. And that takes eons.

Meaning, basically, that desert elves have a mix of genetic mutation and conditioning that makes them fast, vigorous, and less reliant on water. Tribal humans probably have the conditioning... But the genetics? Maybe not yet.

Just my opinion, I don't see a need for the change. But it's not a bad idea at all, really.

Quote from: "Ueda"Personally I think this would be idiotic if it was implemented.

Getting a little hostile, are we?

Pssst.

My human lives in the desert. Not a tribal human either, a city-born and raised human. Who thrives on the freedom and danger of the outdoors.

Comes into the city to socialize, but sleeps among the stars. I know there exist others like my character who prefer the desert to the city, yet are regarded as city-dwellers by the general public.

Just so ya know.

Quote from: "FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit"

Quote2. I couldn't see any humans living in the desert.

Well, then you need to open your eyes. There are human desert tribes already.

Yeah, check out: http://www.armageddon.org/ic/tribal.html

QuoteMeaning, basically, that desert elves have a mix of genetic mutation and conditioning that makes them fast, vigorous, and less reliant on water. Tribal humans probably have the conditioning... But the genetics? Maybe not yet.

Just my opinion, I don't see a need for the change. But it's not a bad idea at all, really.

Don't forget that according to the timeline practically everyone was in nomadic tribes until the third King's Age.  The people (both elves and humans) that are still living in nomadic tribes are mostly decended from people that have been nomads since:

Quote??? The Dragon rules the Known World for four hundred years. Most life, poisoned by the Dragon's magick, spread black plagues among the populations. Elves, dwarves, and men scatter to the furthest reaches of the realm to avoid the terrible Dragon, his dread servants, and the killing plagues which accompanied them.

Prior to this it isn't clear if elves were more likely to have been nomadic than humans, before the colapse of the empire of man the population seems to have been more settled.  Even if elves were more nomadic than men, the world hadn't been poisoned yet so it likely wasn't the nearly lifeless desert we know today.

What does it mean?  That all nomads in the known world have had around 2000 years to adapt to the current barren conditions.

I assume that the sudden change in the environment (going from reasonably fertile to barren wasteland in a few hundred years) and the freakishly high mutation rate (which may have been augmented by magickal plagues and currents of magickal energy interacting with DNA in new and exciting ways) that evolution is leaping ahead faster than most evolutionary theories would predict.  There are many significant mutations in every generation, (far more than you get on Earth) and a small fraction of those mutations are helpful and increase your chances of breeding.  

Personally, I like to think that prior to the fall of the Empire of Man, the Zalanthan races were more like the "classic" fantasy races.  Humans were . . . human.  Dwarves were hairy.  Halflings were basically peaceful, comfort-loving homebodies with a streak of mischif and a talent for theivery.  Elves were nearly immortal but slow breeding folk with a talent for magic, who lived in tree cities and considered themselves superior to the other races, even as the explosive human reproduction  rate was slowly edging them out.  Unlike elves in other worlds, these ones were unable or unwilling to travel to some mystic homeland in the far east or far west.  The dragon and his magickal plagues twisted the world and it's residents in awful ways.  

The elves lost everything: their forest homelands, thier extraordinarily long life-spans, their culture, their peace, the respect of other races.  Perhaps that crushing loss and grief is the source of their love of theft: they lost everything and are in some way trying to get a little back.  If your race's life expectancy went from an 80 years to 8 years you'd be cranky too.

The halflings managed to hold onto a little slice of paradise (or the closest thing left) but only by becoming REALLY unfriendly to outsiders.  :P

And the dwarves, ah, the poor dwarves.  They lost their beards!  Their long, beautiful beards that were their main vanity.  No wonder the poor bastards all developed obsessive compulsive disorder.  At first they were probably all focused on developing a hair restoration technique, but after a few generations it began to drift to other concerns.

AC

I think the human population on Zalanthas already reflects an innate adaptation to heat and thirst.

Go live in a searingly dry climate where the days rarely drop below 100 degrees (and without air conditioning).  Then go spar or walk around outside for an hour.  Then tell me Zalanthan humans aren't already adapted to their environment.

I think a higher priority for new races should be city giths.    :P

I've played a (tribal) "desert human" and didn't feel like anything was missing really.   (Was my favorite character).

But it is an interesting idea.   I'm all for new twists.

We sort of already have a desert human race. They're the ranger class. They can quit out in the desert, forage for roots and water, a lot of other neat stuff that are appropriate to desert-living people. Plus since they aren't elves who refuse to ride kanks, they have that advantage to off-set the lack of natural resistence to stamina drain that d-elves have.

Quote from: "CindyLou"We sort of already have a desert human race. They're the ranger class. They can quit out in the desert, forage for roots and water, a lot of other neat stuff that are appropriate to desert-living people.

Um, rangers aren't a race, they are a class.  Why make desert and city elves, when you could just have one kind of elf, and have those that have lived in the desert for generations take the ranger guild?  If it works for humans it would work for elves.  

As it is to be a "desert human" you either have to take the Nomad subclass (so that you know Bendune, your native language) or else join a coded tribe like the Anyali (there isn't a subguild that gives their language, so I assume they get it another way).

I'm not sure what qualities nomadic humans would have different from city humans.  As mentioned, they can ride so they don't need massive staminia.  I think having the same water requirements as desert elves would be appropriate.

AC

I vote no.

Sorry, but humans have not evolved the way elves had.

1) They should not have a stamina boost because they ride.
2) They should not have the same water requirements as d-elves, because they ride.

Just want to point some things out:

Quote from: "X-D"Notice elves and humans can breed and the offspring is not sterile, I think elves ARE what humans evolved into to survive the wastes.

For one thing, Elves were around before the Known World became the wasteland that it is now.  The main reason we know this is because we know there is one race that has evolved from elves, and aparently evolved so far that they are, and have been for quite some time, considered their own race: The Gith.

Quote from: "X-D"I'd rather see a wilderness version of dwarf myself, Lighter build maybe, which would translate into lower str, higher dex, give them even higher endurance, pump the regen a bit for hp and allow them to regen stam while standing, lower movement costs on flat or rocky areas. maybe give them the lowered water use.

This also would not happen, as to the fact that until fairly reciently, Dwarves were a slave race, almost exclusivly.  It's been long enough now that Dwarves are an excepted part of society.  But because of the race as a whole being enslaved, they are almost only city dwellers.  The know nothing else, nor really have any reason to.

I mean, there might be a tribe of dwarves that managed not to get enslaved, and if they didn't end up as Mantis Food, the are long outside of the Known World.  Hmm.... that's actually quite a disturbing thought, an entire dwarven city outside the known world......

Anyway, I also voted no, as physically, there is almost no difference between a tribal and a city-dweller.

DrunkenSalarr, I think your wrong with the dwarf thing. Some could still be inside the known world.

Yes, I know elves were around before the dragon and all that, But nowhere does it say what they were like, or humans for that matter. I tend to think they were much more alike 3-5,000 years ago. It is pretty safe to say that almost all the races today are not exactly the same as before the dragon.

As to dwarves, yes, they were enslaved as a race, and who knows, they may have even been created by the sorcerer kings of old, but because they were enslaved as a race and with the focus and stubborness of dwarves, who else is more likly to escape to outside the known world or to hidden and less traveled areas of the known world?

Well, think of things this way.

You don't exactly see a mass-extinction happening amongst the human race- it delves into the fact that they've already evolved, to a degree.

How, you might ask? Psionics. Mindbenders are, in my opinion, a piece of the future of Zalanthan humankind. Only humans can be mindbenders, and the Way was a 'tool' developed to keep humans in the game-- something to set them apart from all the dwarves, elves, and gith of the world.

The fact that mindbenders may be the future doesn't necessarily mean the people will want to -accept- this future, but of course.. that's a different story.

I'll note, for those of you that never played the game that this is based off of (note based off of, none of this may be true), at some point in the past all humanoid races were halflings.  Dwarves came next...then elves...then humans.