Armageddon General Discussion Board

Another poll, to add to my previous one. Aimed at gathering more accurate info.

Clarification question: Do you mean for our very first PC, or do you just mean: What's your preferred starting location in general?

Not your first PC. ANY PC.

Just trying to ascertain which location a player would be most comfortable to play in. That is all.

Hope that answers your question.

Dunno why Allanak and the 'Rinth are combined into one.  Though geographically adjacent, they're waaaaay different.

Quote from: Marauder Moe on December 03, 2014, 01:39:04 PM
Dunno why Allanak and the 'Rinth are combined into one.  Though geographically adjacent, they're waaaaay different.

MM - I know Allanak and the Rinth are different.

But technically speaking, if you're playing in one of those 2 zones, you can very easily migrate to the other, due to the proximity.

Having a separate poll option for the Rinth wouldn't really make any difference to the big picture, if you take my meaning.

Physically, yes.  But socially?  Not so easily at all.

MM - Its like - if Undertuluk was still existing, I'd have put the poll option as : Tuluk and Undertuluk.

Just trying to figure out where people like to play geographically.

Socially, I agree with you, that the City States are very different from the "lawless" locations.

Can you really not alter the poll anymore?

Quote from: Patuk on December 03, 2014, 02:02:56 PM
Can you really not alter the poll anymore?

Done - just coz you asked.

Although, I'd consider combining the votes for Allanak and the Rinth - coz the idea is to look at the big picture. But you're right, having a separate Rinth option will be more accurate.

Added "Undertuluk - if it existed" - just to see if folks might be keen on that option too.

Thanks. If you like the big picture, you can always just add the numbers together.

The Rinth is the square to Allanak's rectangle. Most visit out, not many visit in. In my experience, at least.

I voted tribal because of the changes and lower populous I saw in Tuluk. But Tuluk will always remain higher favor than Allanak in my mind.

Quote from: Asanadas on December 03, 2014, 02:31:52 PM
The Rinth is the square to Allanak's rectangle. Most visit out, not many visit in. In my experience, at least.

It's sad that it plays out like this, since according to the documentation it should be the other way around with southsiders coming IN to the rinth to acquire cheap shit or take care of trades without getting slapped with taxes or fines for unlicensed merchantry

Quote from: HavokBlue on December 03, 2014, 04:59:28 PM

Quote from: Asanadas on December 03, 2014, 02:31:52 PM
The Rinth is the square to Allanak's rectangle. Most visit out, not many visit in. In my experience, at least.

It's sad that it plays out like this, since according to the documentation it should be the other way around with southsiders coming IN to the rinth to acquire cheap shit or take care of trades without getting slapped with taxes or fines for unlicensed merchantry

It'd be cool if the Gan Zein were active again, and supported this kind of mentality. Get your cheap spice fix, your cheap poison fix, your cheap whatever fix, at the Gan Zein. Venture outside of that...Well. Don't say we didn't warn you.

I would say the Labyrinth is probably my second choice from Tuluk.

Quote from: HavokBlue on December 03, 2014, 04:59:28 PM

Quote from: Asanadas on December 03, 2014, 02:31:52 PM
The Rinth is the square to Allanak's rectangle. Most visit out, not many visit in. In my experience, at least.

It's sad that it plays out like this, since according to the documentation it should be the other way around with southsiders coming IN to the rinth to acquire cheap shit or take care of trades without getting slapped with taxes or fines for unlicensed merchantry

Without giving away too many IC whatevers, I too want more southside tourists in the rinth, but that one bar (which at least the IG lore / NPC descs / room descs suggests is where southsiders would go to get their spice fix and cheap goods) is actually fairly hard to get to for southsiders (for a couple reasons having nothing to do with the PCs, one of which is that the route there is, well, like going through a labyrinth, and the other I don't think I can say outloud).  I wish it were easier to access for southsiders.

Misunderstood the poll and put in the first location I played, whoops  ::)

My first PC was in the 'rinth. I picked the 'rinth because I thought a loser pickpocket half-starved pauper wouldn't be expected to know much about the docs.

I spawned in, fell down a hole, crawled out, wandered around for 2 hours and then was found by an elf who seemed to think I had killed a dead elf in the room! I couldn't understand the elf and tried to emote backing away but I got attacked and killed...

I ended up not playing again for like a year - but when I logged back in I found out Belenos had sent me a mudmail about how well I had RP'd my exploration! My next character was a bynner who hung out with a red-skinned, horned HG and a fat guy and then I stopped playing for another year. Then I got hooked.

Undertuluk. I didn't even have to think about it. Played it, loved it. Second choice would be a location that isn't one of the options and is pretty iso compared to any of the options.

I picked Allanak. But if there was an allanak/'rinth option I would have picked that.

Red Storm Village, forever and always.

I was tempted to choose Undertuluk but I have no idea what it'd be like there (now).

Quote from: Molten Heart on December 03, 2014, 10:51:21 PM
I was tempted to choose Undertuluk but I have no idea what it'd be like there (now).

Wet.

Also, Tyn Dashra.  I have no idea why that's not an option for anyone else. *whistles*

Quote from: MeTekillot on December 03, 2014, 10:52:24 PM

Quote from: Molten Heart on December 03, 2014, 10:51:21 PM
I was tempted to choose Undertuluk but I have no idea what it'd be like there (now).

Wet.

A plentiful source of water, I'll bet.

I guess tribal kinda covers tyn dashra.

I can't answer this.. everywhere? I just want a long long way away from everyone I "knew" the last time round. Every second roll must be an iso.

You can't render the rinth MORE accessible without people trying to come in there and start trouble and ruin plots. While I, too, would like to see more Nakkis doing business in the rinth, well, it can't happen. Rinth and Red Storm. There's something about not getting PKilled by some haughty aide because I farted and it came out the wrong tone that brings me back.

Quote from: Fujikoma on December 04, 2014, 06:03:14 AM
You can't render the rinth MORE accessible without people trying to come in there and start trouble and ruin plots. While I, too, would like to see more Nakkis doing business in the rinth, well, it can't happen. Rinth and Red Storm. There's something about not getting PKilled by some haughty aide because I farted and it came out the wrong tone that brings me back.

what

turn +1 for what

... can't explain myself other than to say, find out IC.

Quote from: Fujikoma on December 04, 2014, 06:03:14 AM
You can't render the rinth MORE accessible without people trying to come in there and start trouble and ruin plots. While I, too, would like to see more Nakkis doing business in the rinth, well, it can't happen. Rinth and Red Storm. There's something about not getting PKilled by some haughty aide because I farted and it came out the wrong tone that brings me back.

Fujikoma, I think what is being said is - your post isn't understandable. Can you reword what you're trying to say? Not saying you have to reveal IC information....

28 of you love the Highlord.

You know what the Highlord loves?

(http://www.topmudsites.com/images/vote_mud.gif) (http://www.topmudsites.com/cgi-bin/topmuds/rankem.cgi?id=sanvean)  (http://www.mudconnect.com/images/tmcvote1.gif) (http://www.mudconnect.com/cgi-bin/vote_rank.cgi?mud=Armageddon)

<3 +

Which part is difficult to understand? The whole thing? I can't think of another way to word it, so I guess it'll just have to look like gibberish.

As far as I can tell, Fuji is saying that if the rinth should become more easily accessible, it will also become less of a good hiding spot for unsavory types.

That's what I got out of Fuji's post too.

I like semi-iso roles when they're in locations that aren't intended to be heavily populated. If I roll up a PC in an area that isn't known to have a big population, and it's crowded, I get sad. Just as sad as when I roll one up in an area that should be heavily populated, and it's empty.

Yeah, that was what Fuji was saying, I think: the rinth is a place to hide low from those southsider cunts.  That said, I think a bit of it should be opened up to general traffic, e.g., that one bar, and a path to it.  It'd be dangerous for southsiders (no soldiers) but not instagank lethal (as it is now owing to that thing I can't talk about probably).  The unsavories can still hide out in other bits of it.

Twitchyslackjawedman-baneofmyexistance.

Oh, thanks for rewording my post, Nauta. And close, Lizzie. Basically, the quality of the RP gets a little questionable when you have too many outsiders there, they mutually reinforce their behavior and might ignore some basic rules creating some downright suicidal situations, which Zalanthan's aren't supposed to typically be. I don't want to be isolated, I just don't want a bunch of roundear Nakki tough guys camping out in the Mantis completely disregarding the local precedents and culture, and also there'd be a lot of needless player-killing going on because of it.

EDIT: I can tell sometimes when someone's previous PC was a Nakki by the way they behave inside the Storm's Eye. It's usually not long before they vanish. The rules for each place are different, you either learn them, or you die. It's easier with a new, fresh PC, to alter behaviors and perspectives, as well as to get rid of them if this proves impossible.

My experience in the Labyrinth is that it does plenty of self-reinforcing when it comes to ignoring basic rules. The only thing that's going to stop the latest short-spear wielding assassin who's memorized which NPCs he can safely backstab at which skill levels without triggering other NPCs is another assassin or maybe someone rolls up a half-giant, or maybe once in a blue moon someone animates a bunch of gangmembers stepping in to deal with the psycho killer who farms NPCs on respawn.


The Rinth is near and dear to my heart and I wouldn't be in favor of anything I think would dilute the essence of what it is. I do think that turning something like the Gan Zein into a grey market bazaar for super low quality dirty peasant goods and other things, or adjusting the routes to something like the 'neutral' bar so that southsiders are afforded a relatively safer approach as long as they stay out of the Rinth proper would not hurt.

... I'm quite fond of the Mantis and I don't want some whacko having easy access to me any time someone in Nak gets an ingrown hair in their bum.

Well the super neat thing is that the Mantis is not a dark, empty alley so anybody capable of ganking you there and getting away with it is probably not hindered by the handful of easily bypassable NPCs currently standing on the route there, regardless of their spawn location. Besides that, there are other places Rinthers can go to take turns arguing about who will lower their hood first.

Quote from: HavokBlue on December 04, 2014, 02:48:17 PM
Well the super neat thing is that the Mantis is not a dark, empty alley so anybody capable of ganking you there and getting away with it is probably not hindered by the handful of easily bypassable NPCs currently standing on the route there, regardless of their spawn location. Besides that, there are other places Rinthers can go to take turns arguing about who will lower their hood first.

I know for a fact the code is wonky with those folks, and I've terribly ravaged other players with bone swords in there. I also know those easily bypassable NPCs aren't always so easy to take down (although I've done it a number of times), especially solo. The more obstacles in the way, the less chance they'll make the effort, completely ignoring the virtual environment to use code to have a destructive effect on my plots.

I like the Rinth because it's dangerous, at least it's suppressed to be.

Quote from: Fujikoma on December 04, 2014, 02:56:44 PM

Quote from: HavokBlue on December 04, 2014, 02:48:17 PM
Well the super neat thing is that the Mantis is not a dark, empty alley so anybody capable of ganking you there and getting away with it is probably not hindered by the handful of easily bypassable NPCs currently standing on the route there, regardless of their spawn location. Besides that, there are other places Rinthers can go to take turns arguing about who will lower their hood first.

I know for a fact the code is wonky with those folks, and I've terribly ravaged other players with bone swords in there. I also know those easily bypassable NPCs aren't always so easy to take down (although I've done it a number of times), especially solo. The more obstacles in the way, the less chance they'll make the effort, completely ignoring the virtual environment to use code to have a destructive effect on my plots.

If you see people murdering each other in an environment in which the NPC/VNPC presence would respond in some fashion (ie. a crowded bar) you should probably wish up and maybe submit a player complaint if it is a recurring scenario.

My PC was being watched, and was nuts. He had a history.

I chose Allanak proper over Tuluk because Tuluk sounded to be more fussy with a lot of overwrought docs about caste and tattoos and subtlety and bards and noble houses with too many syllables in their name, while Allanak was much more straightforward and felt more "Dark Sun." Also it had a picture of a flag on its page while Tuluk just had a bunch of words.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on December 04, 2014, 06:16:34 PM
I chose Allanak proper over Tuluk because Tuluk sounded to be more fussy with a lot of overwrought docs about caste and tattoos and subtlety and bards and noble houses with too many syllables in their name, while Allanak was much more straightforward and felt more "Dark Sun." Also it had a picture of a flag on its page while Tuluk just had a bunch of words.

As a big fan of Dark Sun I appreciate your notion here - but I think it's fairer to say that Allanak is actually more a better example of Urik and Tyr, which were the focus of a lot of the earlier (and best) art and supplements for the setting. Consider this:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Draj
Located on a vast mud flat in the Northeast of the Tyr Region, Draj was formerly ruled by the brutally expansionist sorcerer-king Tectuktitlay. After his death at Rajaat's hand in Ur-Draxa, he has been replaced by his putative son Atzetuk. This city-state may take inspiration from the Aztec civilization.

Gulg
Ruled by the sorcerer-queen Lalali-Puy, Gulg is unique among the city-states due to its construction from living materials of the forest instead of stone and brick. While she is an absolute ruler, owning just about everything in the city, Lalali-Puy is loved by her citizens since she is the bringer of rain and wheat. This city may take inspiration from the jungle cultures of Africa.

Nibenay
Nibenay is located closer to the center of the Tyr Region, just to the east of the city-state of Gulg. Nibenay is ruled by the sorcerer-king Nibenay, formerly known as Gallard the Bane of Gnomes. Now known simply as "The Shadow King," he is the most reclusive of them all. The Shadow King will often stay out of sight for years or more due to lack of interest in governmental affairs and to his devotion to personal projects. The inspiration for Nibenay may have been Angkor, capital of the Khmer Empire.

When I became staff it was these sources that directed my opinion of what Tuluk is. I think a weakness of Tuluk is that it doesn't get across its inspirations very well and requires players to actually be familiar with those inspirations. Allanak doesn't require this - it's a desert city where everyone chops each other up with bone swords.

Disclaimer: I can't say what Tuluk's actual inspirations are. I just work with what my imagination gives me!

Time passes and I still can't decide. Checking my list confirms this....for each location I have 2 pcs who have wanted to reside there, except for only one in Storm. And not counting a temp on a Tuluk barstool.

Is there a minority of potential voters who couldn't decide, or more than 35 , or an unlikely majority?

I picked Tuluk but I actually hate Tuluk and don't know I roll all of my PCs there. grasslands are just too comfy I guess.

Quote from: jstorrie on December 10, 2014, 04:36:04 AM
I picked Tuluk but I actually hate Tuluk and don't know I roll all of my PCs there. grasslands are just too comfy I guess.

Pfft.

Labyrinth is where I got my first kudos. I love it and I'm gonna play the shit out of it, especially now that they've put some makeup on the old whore.

I don't mind Tuluk, that being said I don't think I've really played there for ... eight years?

Prior I played in Tuluk when I wanted to play crafters. Pretty much in it for the coded resources.

I like Tuluk, but I like Allanak better.  Ive had a few characters that went back and forth between the two enough to have both accents.

I love Tuluk and have since I started playing, but I still switch things up every so often so I can see the other areas of the game

(and distance myself from the people my last character knew)

Tuluk is great. Its area is beautiful and really adds a lot to the game world. Tuluk is simultaneously an area of hope for the future of mankind on Zalanthas and a place with a power structure that both crushes that hope and maintains it. It's complex and it's important.

I don't think Tuluk needs to be an area open for playing at all times. At several points during long lulls I wished that IC events had truly closed Tuluk "off" to players, at least for a little while. Then it could come back.

At points in its history it was destroyed, or nearly so, then rebuilt; it has been invaded and controlled by Allanak for periods of time, during which Allanak was ICly dominant. I think that similar plots should continue to happen, because the fact is that interest in it wanes over time and then it comes back again.

I think a huge mistake is keeping it open at all times and always trying to keep it populated enough to make it feel alive. I think what makes more sense is letting IC events have their way with it, then using staff power to push it BACK into popularity. I don't think OOC recruitment drives are the best way to do this, just one way to do it. But there's no best way to do anything, especially when it concerns Tuluk, which has always been an ancillary theme to Zalanthas, where Allanak has always been dominant (fact). It's just whatever staff (and to some degree, players) agree would work, and the key is avoiding stagnation. Sometimes an attempt at rejuvenation can feel more like continued stagnation.

Sorry for a rant, but people are talking about it here right now.

The idea of closing Tuluk has been suggested time and again for the past several years. There are a couple of major reasons why it is unlikely to happen via an OOC, staff-triggered decision, even temporarily.

- Tuluk gives a major alternative location to start a character in, should a player wish to avoid an area for a time (for example, after a character death). If the only playable city was Allanak, RP would be centered around Allanak constantly, and stagnate as players continue to play with the same groups of people.
- Tuluk is a foil to Allanak in the setting. Each city antagonizes the other. This gives the game an avenue for world-spanning, PC-versus-PC conflict, as opposed to the PC-versus-staff world conflict that would be left over with only one city (or no world conflict at all, or world conflict between disproportionate entities with a clear winner, e.g. Allanak versus a tribe). In other words, world-spanning plots would either become non-existent or have a pre-determined ending, which is not really conducive to the player-driven plots.

That being said, I don't think anything is "ancillary" about Tuluk at all. Tuluk and Allanak are meant to be equivalent but opposing forces, in the grand scheme of things. Just because this is not always represented by PC numbers doesn't make this any less true.

Also, there is no recruitment drive, and there never will be one. All that was ever posted was a suggestion/reminder that Tuluk is an option for people and playing in Tuluk will help both sides of the world have more fun, and that playing in different areas helps round out your skills as a roleplayer in Armageddon. It's just a reminder that, if you're clamoring for another type of conflict or another side of a conflict, there are options. The last thing we want as staff is for players to feel bored, or stuck. We are doing our best, and many player ideas are discussed staff-side to see how they might be applicable to improving the game's overall "fun factor".

The suggestion worked, because Tuluk be bumpin'.

Quote from: Nergalor world conflict between disproportionate entities with a clear winner, e.g. Allanak versus a tribe

u wot m8

I play where the character concept fits.

With the re-re worked Gulg data that came out a few years (like.. maybe 10) Tuluk is more like Gulg now rather than when Dark Sun was fresh. I mean, I like the idea of a Moon Queen, but eh.. It's loopy enough up there.

Again I don't know what it is currently as I haven't been to Tuluk, but I think in my prime of really playing Armageddon some of the best times I've had in Tuluk was when there was lots of traffic from everywhere. I'd imagine with whats going on in game that isn't a thing currently ...

But I think the major conflict story line really needs to get sorted out somehow.

Tried to finish that, because I think it's beneficial for the game to have options and travel and mingling.

Expected this thread to be from 2002, was disappointed.  Almost got me when the OP had an ICQ link in their profile.

Edit:  Oh, I picked Luir's, because there was no setting for nomadic that isn't tribal, but I've probably played the most in Tuluk.