Think it'd be cool if when you did a reroll undo, your hitpoints/stun points were identical to the first roll.
Seems to me currently you always end up with less. :-\
This.
Wait... there's a reroll undo?
:o
yeah, you always end up with less.
I am pretty much resigned to this fact.
And I think much carefully now before I reroll as a consequence.
I remember when we didn't even have a reroll undo! And we had to walk up the sand dunes both ways!
I haven't noticed this, personally. It probably has something to do with a random roll when stats are set, and you've been unlucky.
Quote from: Delirium on August 13, 2013, 03:59:44 PM
I haven't noticed this, personally.
It's still better than when you could just reroll 3 times...and the stats would just get worse each time.
I used to believe the reroll always resulted in lower "numeric stats" too - until this last time. Two didn't change at all, and the other two went up a little bit.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 13, 2013, 04:40:47 PM
I used to believe the reroll always resulted in lower "numeric stats" too - until this last time. Two didn't change at all, and the other two went up a little bit.
Health and Stun specifically? Or just the Strength, endurance, and that stuff.
This only seems to happen with HP Stamina and stun.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 13, 2013, 06:35:26 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on August 13, 2013, 04:40:47 PM
I used to believe the reroll always resulted in lower "numeric stats" too - until this last time. Two didn't change at all, and the other two went up a little bit.
Health and Stun specifically? Or just the Strength, endurance, and that stuff.
This only seems to happen with HP Stamina and stun.
HPs, stamina, stun, and mana, the last time I reroll undo'ed (I don't recall how long ago it was).
Most new characters don't need mana on their prompts so you generally don't notice it. But all four of the 'something points' values fluctuate when you reroll-undo. This does need a fix.
Health, stun, etc are rolled somewhat differently. I'll pass this on to people who know how the code works.
Quote from: jstorrie on August 13, 2013, 06:55:23 PM
Most new characters don't need mana on their prompts so you generally don't notice it. But all four of the 'something points' values fluctuate when you reroll-undo. This does need a fix.
I have used reroll undo on upward of a dozen pcs with mana in their prompts. Everything I have seen with regards to how mana is supposed to work, it works correctly. It wouldn't be prudent of me to post how I know this, but if you pay close attention to the thing that determines what your mana is, you will notice that it is not working incorrectly.
Health, stamina, and stun, yes, usually seem to lose points when you reroll undo, even what it seems they're tied to increased, rather than decreased.
Health and Stamina aren't on a system where if you roll 8 Endurance, you have 80hp. Its a calculation similar to a dice roll. When you reroll undo, your stat numbers are the same, but the calculation is rerolled as well, which means different dice rolls.
Maybe I'm incorrect about mana - I don't know that much about magickers because I play real Armageddon. Emoticon.
You definitely don't always get lower hp/stam/stun values, just different ones. You might tend to get lower ones, maybe, if the roll is bugged somehow, but that's more or less irrelevant since those values shouldn't be getting rerolled in the first place.
Quote from: jstorrie on August 13, 2013, 08:23:15 PM
since those values shouldn't be getting rerolled in the first place.
this. I always felt it was inappropriate, somehow.
Quote from: Harmless on August 13, 2013, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: jstorrie on August 13, 2013, 08:23:15 PM
since those values shouldn't be getting rerolled in the first place.
this. I always felt it was inappropriate, somehow.
So someone who rolls poor endurance and ends up with 80 hp shouldn't have more hp if he then re-rolls and ends up with AI endurance?
Really? I've rolled "average" and re-rolled for another "average" with substancially more HP and Stun.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 13, 2013, 10:18:51 PM
Really? I've rolled "average" and re-rolled for another "average" with substancially more HP and Stun.
That's because Average isn't a static number. It's a dynamic range. You still have to roll to get the "numeric" stats - and those stats will be appropriate within that range.
So - for instance..
if "average" has a 10-point spread - for "charisma"
and if dingleberry stat was 107 before you rerolled
when you reroll undo, that average charisma will be average again - but the dingleberry stat will be *somewhere in the range of 100 and 110."
Okay. So to my understanding, the game does not store specific health values, so it will not be possible for reroll undo to bring you back to exactly what you had before. It may be something that can be changed later but there are a lot of things we would prefer to tackle first.
Quote from: Malken on August 13, 2013, 09:10:48 PM
Quote from: Harmless on August 13, 2013, 08:57:36 PM
Quote from: jstorrie on August 13, 2013, 08:23:15 PM
since those values shouldn't be getting rerolled in the first place.
this. I always felt it was inappropriate, somehow.
So someone who rolls poor endurance and ends up with 80 hp shouldn't have more hp if he then re-rolls and ends up with AI endurance?
I don't think you understand what it is that we are discussing, Malken.
Quote from: Lizzie on August 13, 2013, 10:28:34 PM
Quote from: Qzzrbl on August 13, 2013, 10:18:51 PM
Really? I've rolled "average" and re-rolled for another "average" with substancially more HP and Stun.
That's because Average isn't a static number. It's a dynamic range. You still have to roll to get the "numeric" stats - and those stats will be appropriate within that range.
So - for instance..
if "average" has a 10-point spread - for "charisma"
and if dingleberry stat was 107 before you rerolled
when you reroll undo, that average charisma will be average again - but the dingleberry stat will be *somewhere in the range of 100 and 110."
I know, I know. :P
It just seems the OP's experience has been, "every time I reroll my numbers are lower" and I was just....
I just re-read the OP.
Ignore me.
But for the record, I've also undone a reroll and wound up with significantly more HP MV Stun, ect.
Hasn't exactly been common, but it's possible, barring some recent code change.
Quote from: Riev on August 13, 2013, 07:59:47 PM
Health and Stamina aren't on a system where if you roll 8 Endurance, you have 80hp. Its a calculation similar to a dice roll. When you reroll undo, your stat numbers are the same, but the calculation is rerolled as well, which means different dice rolls.
Riev's explanation is correct. The hp/stamina/stun totals will be randomized again (but retaining their static stat modifiers) on a reroll undo. They can be lower or higher than the first roll was.
Yeah. It would be nice if the reroll undo was identical. Not more nor less. That is all.
Quote from: Rhyden on August 14, 2013, 11:04:16 PM
Yeah. It would be nice if the reroll undo was identical. Not more nor less. That is all.
That is how mana currently works. I think it would be nice if the rest of the points-based stats (hp, stam, stun, not wis, end, etc) did that as well.
This always bothers me when you have 100hp or something and the re-roll brings you to 99. NOOOOOOOOO!
I would actually love if this happened and it remained exactly as it was before. I unfortunately can not resist re-rolling every time I create a character. If I don't then I linger on the potential that was lost. Most of the time I end up undoing the re-roll, and then this happens... and I mourn a different kind of lost potential.
The answer Wug gave is the same immortal answer we had when reroll undo was implemented.
I happen to like the randomness on the reroll undo. It adds risk into using reroll. Otherwise it would be completely riskless and there wouldn't ever be a reason or a tradeoff -not- to do a reroll.