I've recently found myself questioning if I am using too much OOC ingame to help new players. Seems to be a rise of new players which is a good thing. Always good to have fresh blood, new boots, different aspect on things, etc. I saw a post in the New Player Questions section stating to try and find a mentor both to what you are playing and get a good mix of RP and OOC going. I've been trying to help out new players with questions they have. Any OOC stuff I try to do away from where other PCs are playing. I'm just wondering what is too much. One of the most recent people I was helping seemed to be reading on the help files as we were RPing and just had some questions and wanted some clarification on the help files they were reading. I think this is ok. I was just wanting to get others feedback on what is too much and what is appropriate.
only noobs use ooc 8)
I really try not to use OOC in game, even with new players. It breaks my immersion and theirs and potentially sets up bad habits. They can be directed to the helpers, which of course is a completely OOC (and outside of the game) source of help; and helpers are experienced players who will generally know where the line is between too much info and not enough. Lots of things that they need or want to know in the game can be explained in completely IC terms; how to find a job, how to get water and food, how to do obsidian mining or cotton-gathering or shit shoveling. So there's no reason at all to go OOC for that stuff.
I think you're already thinking, if you see what I mean. I think you can probably trust your gut on this.
For others who may not have considered, I'd say here are some guidelines:
The more people whose scene you're interrupting the less ooc you use.
If the newbie seems anxious to switch into character let things go, unless they're just really really about to do some damage based on lack of game knowledge
If you conversation just goes on and on and on from topic to topic at some point you should point them to helpers.
I make sure that most anything that can be done IC is done IC I try to stay away from other players when helping via OOC. I usually don't use OOC, only time I do its like when I'm lagging or going afk. Other than that I try very hard not to use it. Just seems like a lot of new players around lately and I don't want to discourage them. Also don't want to encourage bad habits.
Personally, over all the muds I have played in the last sixteen years, I always am open to answering OOC questions and try to head to a more 'private' location, but also make sure said location isn't like, soon as I am done answering OOC questions that I ICly will not be tempted to kill them and rob them.
I feel aslong as you are clear that your OOC kindness does not relate to IC kindness it is favorable to help. Many muds I have played had an OOC channel, or a help channel, or even a designated OOC building. While the helper link on the main sight is nice, I personally have always found help from another player to feel more personal. Though it is still good to point the link out to new players so they can use it at their leisure aswell.
I'm pretty free with it.
If it looks like it'll take more then a couple uses to explain, I'll try and get them to a more out of the way place for it. Sometimes they're in doe-eyed newbie mode and really frustrated, so the conversation happens on the spot. A happy and informed newbie is one more likely to stick around.
I'm having a difficult time understanding the entire 'Forget newbies, my personal immersion and enjoyment is paramount!' line of thinking.
The more people we retain, the denser the PC population in cities becomes, the more clans can be opened, the more fun can be had by everyone, including bitter forum vets that do nothing but piss vinegar all day.
It all starts with making newbies feel welcome and that help is readily available when overcoming the very sharp learning curve the game has.
If I can't figure out a way to make sense IC, I try to get them into a private spot and then I go OOC. Going OOC when there's a problem, and getting it clear right away, lets them get back to playing instead of floundering around trying to figure out how to equip their second weapon. Most people don't find frustration to be much fun.
I really try to avoid OOC in places where others are trying to RP.
I've seen some people help IC by emphasizing the commands, capitalizing all the words, etc., in their IC speech, and I think that's fine, but really no less immersion-breaking. They're obviously making a good effort though!
I mostly would only use OOC to inform about purely OOC concepts. Code syntax, for example, can be a bit obscure or rately-used (which I think does warrant an ooc question - I wouldn't hold it against anyone). Same thing goes for "all dwarves are hairless" or "just because they're playing a female, they're not weaker than you" infos (though taking these privately is a good idea, as there will likely be further questions if they have those problems). Generally - one-time questions are perfectly alright (sensible limits applied) while discussions or back-and-forth should be moved to helpers more often. I'd rather see a "ooc My character is just as likely to hate you as any other, keep that in mind and good luck. " and use of OOC than losing a potentially great player.
I'm a little too free with OOC. Depends on my mood. Sometimes it can irritate me, but never if it's a noob asking questions. A couple times in the past I have used it to OOC laugh at something glaring, like a funny typo. Also have been known to banter a little with soemone else who's using it to laugh at something like that typo... but I always kick myself when I do.
OOC doesn't bother me at all. My immersionzs wear big boy pants.
Context. Always context.
In the Gaj, not so good. With a newb in a side room? Have at it.
But here's the catch. OOC command use should serve to further the game. So helping new players? Golden. Organizing an RPT time? Sure. Explaining why you have to be AFK for a bit, breaking up a scene? Yeah, it might be the best option. Catching up on football scores? Maybe not so much. Wouldn't want to break [redacted]'s immersion.
EDIT to add:
Here I'm referring to actually furthering the game, not just gaming the system. It's not "am I convinced of my rightness?" but "will players in general, and staff in specific, be convinced of my rightness?" But I think that applies to a lot of things.
Who uses the OOC command as if it were team speak? This seems somewhat hyperbolic as far as examples go.
I have seen people argue over rp using the ooc command. That is never appropriate.
With respect to assisting new players, as much as I try to keep things IC, there are just times where OOC is a necessity - even if it's just to point a player to the Helpers.
To respond to your question: I think the line is rather simple - that if it can be done IC, using OOC is "too much".
Quote from: Barzalene on July 14, 2013, 12:31:10 AM
I have seen people argue over rp using the ooc command. That is never appropriate.
This is important and I have erred in this way before.
Ooc is great for consent issues, but beyond that discussing RP with it causes big problems, whereas helping others with code is never really a problem.
QUESTION: How do folks feel about the way some capitalize commands in says to help teach noobs?
The tall, muscular woman says, in sirihish,
"You should DISENGAGE when your sparring partner says 'Break,' runner!"
I think that is fine. I think oocing the syntax (after observing that there is an actual issue) is fine, too.
What I like about oocing there is that it keeps separate the part that is ic from the part that is ooc
What I like about capitalization is that it doesn't invite more ooc conversation.
I personally think you should say stuff normally even commands via rp. All capital is just not a good way to do things. If they don't understand then you can ooc the syntax.
I actually find people using the skill names IG more immersion-breaking than people going OOC to explain syntax.
"I like to sneak around, and I hide pretty well. Sometimes I like to backstab people with weapons that pierce. I'm always scanning for people who like to hide, too. It's pretty useful. Oh, and I can parry to, and I'm a master at using a shield."
Quote from: Harmless on July 14, 2013, 11:30:27 AM
QUESTION: How do folks feel about the way some capitalize commands in says to help teach noobs?
The tall, muscular woman says, in sirihish,
"You should DISENGAGE when your sparring partner says 'Break,' runner!"
Like I said before, it's fine with me, but I don't see it as any less immersion breaking than saying it OOC. More just a matter of taste and it's cool either way. I'm just happy people are being nice and helping out new players! That's the important thing.
Don't you guys find you can sort of suspend your disbelief and not have your immersion broken even with such OOC things as giving newbs syntax? I find it more or less starts being part of my IC life, one of the things that I just accept, like [redacted] equipment making it easier for you to [redacted] somehow, or the crazy wilderness distance issues that really just don't make sense, or how you can accidentally attack your buddy who has an unfortunate animal-themed keyword. You just don't think so much about it and go on. That's how life is in Amos's world!
;D
Haha I had to do the redacted thing...just had to...
Now you've done it. Out of your system now? ;)
I think so.
Yes, yes it is.
Pretty sure.
;)
Sometimes noobs have questions that can't be answered ICly easily. There is no reason not to answer the question. However, I agree if it becomes thing after thing a helper would be better.
Going to a helper could be intimidating for them. So doing a little chore of babysitting could be a good way to keep a new player. After that they will know what to do and we get a bigger p-base.
I see too much ooc though. Not new player question ooc. New player questions are fine imo. Players that have high level karma are doing too much ooc. Not calling anyone out directly because its inappropriate here, but I have seen some inappropriate ooc between High level leaders. They were even telling ooc jokes.
Let me review, ooc helping noobs feel more comfortable with code so they can play comfortably is GOOD.
Veterans OOC talking about their dog, birthday, girlfriend, trucks, cats, candy, ect is BAD
The staff stance on this is that we do prefer that OOC is kept to a minimum. There are some occasions where it may be necessary (and helpful) to use OOC to explain something. If it becomes something involved then we ask that you refer them to the helpers. We would rather not see extended OOC conversations in game. Helpers are also accustomed to working with the newbies and have a good idea of the kind of parameters the discussion needs, and that staff expect, when helping new folk.
If someone is obviously new I will not hesitate to OOC to them and offer to help.