Does it make some kind of new breed or does not do really anything or does it make a human?
Up to the player, I'd say.
Quote from: Patuk on April 21, 2013, 06:18:36 PM
Up to the player, I'd say.
No it's not, it certainly does not make a human, a breed that has a child with a human will make a breed.
If breed after breed in that family keeps mating with humans, then eventually there might be less discerning features, but there will always remain something breedy about them.
Let's not use this as an excuse to give players the old "Well, I'm a human and I love you, breedy baby, if we make a child together, it will be human just like his Papa and we can all be happy together!" crap.
In chargen you can make a half elf and choose an option to appear as either an elf or a human.
The option for human-looking-but-actually-a-half-elf-by-blood roleplay is built right into the code.
(Appearing as an elf and then riding around on an inix is fun for all the weird looks and hate you get.)
Bad things!
(I'm being tongue in cheek and it's really a silly answer. Though there's some truth in there. Mostly though, welcome to Arm.)
1/3rd elf is still a breed.
Quote from: Malken on April 21, 2013, 06:36:22 PM
Quote from: Patuk on April 21, 2013, 06:18:36 PM
Up to the player, I'd say.
No it's not, it certainly does not make a human, a breed that has a child with a human will make a breed.
If breed after breed in that family keeps mating with humans, then eventually there might be less discerning features, but there will always remain something breedy about them.
Let's not use this as an excuse to give players the old "Well, I'm a human and I love you, breedy baby, if we make a child together, it will be human just like his Papa and we can all be happy together!" crap.
Point. Taken.
Someone will have to pay the blood price.
Plus - any breed blood = breed.
It is unbelievable to me how many pass-for-human breeds are walking around in the game right now.
Not trolling: I mean, if you saw forty pieces of cheese stacked together on a plate rather than just two, you'd notice that too.
Quote from: Fredd on April 21, 2013, 07:07:08 PM
1/3rd elf is still a breed.
I kinda know what you mean but I wonder how a person could become literally one-third breed.
Its possible, right? If partial breeds have kids in the correct order with the correct percentage of dna?
Quote from: The Silence of the Erdlus on April 22, 2013, 12:24:04 AM
I kinda know what you mean but I wonder how a person could become literally one-third breed.
Its possible, right? If partial breeds have kids in the correct order with the correct percentage of dna?
It is possible to reach odd fractions of breeding, yes, though, whether it's a contiguous third or two separate sub-fractions totaling a third is debatable. Bottom line is, I like that the code supports this possibility.
Quote from: The Silence of the Erdlus on April 22, 2013, 12:24:04 AM
It is unbelievable to me how many pass-for-human breeds are walking around in the game right now.
Not trolling: I mean, if you saw forty pieces of cheese stacked together on a plate rather than just two, you'd notice that too.
Quote from: Fredd on April 21, 2013, 07:07:08 PM
1/3rd elf is still a breed.
I kinda know what you mean but I wonder how a person could become literally one-third breed.
Its possible, right? If partial breeds have kids in the correct order with the correct percentage of dna?
I was just using it in the general sense of Elf fucks human, makes breed. Breed fucks human and makes 1/3rd breed.
Not sure what that would actually be. But it seems like 1/3rd
That'd be a 1/4th Breed if I'm not mistaken, but now we have a way of slipping fractions into our Zalanthan Math Primer!
Quote from: The Silence of the Erdlus on April 22, 2013, 12:24:04 AM
It is unbelievable to me how many pass-for-human breeds are walking around in the game right now.
I see a lot of breeds that are subtle breeds - the shape of eyes or ears mentioned in main desc but not short desc. Is that what you mean? If so, the fault lies with the reader, I think. As someone who plays a lot of "this and that half-elf or half-breed" I admit I don't see a ton of sdesc breeds, but plenty of the other. I don't think that's bad.
Meh. I go by roleplay standards, not coded.
If someone is codedly human but they're tall, have 'long muscular legs' or something like that in their description, and they move quickly - I'm going to say, "Hey! That fucker has necker blood!"
I've heard when an elf and a breed mate, you get gith.
With enough human blood, I don't think that you'd be able to tell she is a breed. Once you get out to 1/8th or whatever, the character might not even be able to tell she's a breed. Why? Because who's going to want to admit that great-grandma kanked or was raped by a breed?
Quote from: DustMight on April 22, 2013, 06:18:30 AM
Quote from: The Silence of the Erdlus on April 22, 2013, 12:24:04 AM
It is unbelievable to me how many pass-for-human breeds are walking around in the game right now.
I see a lot of breeds that are subtle breeds - the shape of eyes or ears mentioned in main desc but not short desc. Is that what you mean? If so, the fault lies with the reader, I think. As someone who plays a lot of "this and that half-elf or half-breed" I admit I don't see a ton of sdesc breeds, but plenty of the other. I don't think that's bad.
Yeah, it ain't bad or nothing. It does pose a sort of fleeting question of whether I as a pc who has read the mdesc ought to notice or not and 100% of the time I choose not to really. I talked about a potentially socially damning or damaging thing I saw in a person's mdesc one time, which had about five words in the mdesc to its name, and they got defensive about it, so now I just sort of leave it to those pcs to decide if they want their almond eyes noticed.
Quote from: valeria on April 22, 2013, 07:55:33 AM
With enough human blood, I don't think that you'd be able to tell she is a breed. Once you get out to 1/8th or whatever, the character might not even be able to tell she's a breed. Why? Because who's going to want to admit that great-grandma kanked or was raped by a breed?
I've played one of these before. Made her such a severely racist human too. Also made it so that someone reading my mdesc could fit two and two together but in an age without readily available mirrors there'd be no way I myself could do that. It was fucking awesome.
Quote from: Fujikoma on April 22, 2013, 07:41:36 AM
I've heard when an elf and a breed mate, you get gith.
This isn't true (if anybody was wondering)
But it is a good joke, I might use that in game.
Quote from: Fujikoma on April 22, 2013, 07:41:36 AM
I've heard when an elf and a breed mate, you get gith.
My PC was just joking when he told you that....
;D
But on the other hand, when a PC mates with your mother ...
Quote from: Refugee on April 22, 2013, 11:49:25 AM
Quote from: Fujikoma on April 22, 2013, 07:41:36 AM
I've heard when an elf and a breed mate, you get gith.
My PC was just joking when he told you that....
;D
Hee-hee... Yeah, I know, was a good joke, couldn't help but throw it in... ;)
The line where your mixed-blood PC transitions from being a coded breed to being a coded human/elf is entirely up to you.
Quote from: Lancer on April 22, 2013, 01:23:17 AM
That'd be a 1/4th Breed if I'm not mistaken, but now we have a way of slipping fractions into our Zalanthan Math Primer!
Assignment of genes is technically random, but since you have so many the law of averages is going to say you're pretty close to 1/4.
(.5+0)/2
In actuality it wouldn't work that way because biologically elves are humans and have many of the same genes. Like probably 99% or something, so you'd end up 99.75% human and 99.25% elf.
Humans share 99.9% of the same genes. Elves can breed with them and produce viable offspring.
So, figure, barely outside the realm of human variation. 99.85%?
Don't forget people. Once your lines are tainted with elf blood it doesn't matter if for generations after you and yours -don't- kank a longneck, there will be that ONE chance that your whelp's ears will be pointed just a weeeeee little bit.
Once upon a time, there was a staff reply on this. Its been a long, long time though, and I can't remember the specifics on what happens when you get down to small percentages of elf blood :(
Someone use google-fu! Although, I think it may have been on the 90s board.
My opinion:
1/4 elf should be coded half-elf
1/8 elf doesn't have to be coded half-elf, but should at least include some elven traits in mdesc
Any less than that is basically human
Quote from: Lancer on April 22, 2013, 01:23:17 AM
That'd be a 1/4th Breed if I'm not mistaken, but now we have a way of slipping fractions into our Zalanthan Math Primer!
Heh, tempting! :D
Quote from: Marauder Moe on April 22, 2013, 03:17:59 PM
My opinion:
1/4 elf should be coded half-elf
1/8 elf doesn't have to be coded half-elf, but should at least include some elven traits in mdesc
Any less than that is basically human
+1
I'm picturing scenarios where up-standing human families give birth to a child with half-elven features and commit infanticide to keep their good name intact.
At OP: A smudge on a boot heel. :)
Quote from: HavokBlue on April 22, 2013, 07:01:22 PM
I'm picturing scenarios where up-standing human families give birth to a child with half-elven features and commit infanticide to keep their good name intact.
Pretty much the reason (with 'half-elf' swapped with 'mutant') there's very few, if any, mutant nobility. "Stillborn" indeed.
Quote from: BleakOne on April 22, 2013, 11:28:16 PM
Quote from: HavokBlue on April 22, 2013, 07:01:22 PM
I'm picturing scenarios where up-standing human families give birth to a child with half-elven features and commit infanticide to keep their good name intact.
Pretty much the reason (with 'half-elf' swapped with 'mutant') there's very few, if any, mutant nobility. "Stillborn" indeed.
There is a scene in a slavery movie (whose title I can't remember, might have even been Mandingo) where the Belle of the plantation gives birth... to a mulato baby... the midwife unties the cord and lets it bleed out. Massah comes running in to glow at his beautiful bride and their pride and joy only to find a dead mulato whelp in the cradle. That's some Arm shit right there.
The official staff response on this was it always creates a half-elf.
It doesnt matter if it is a half-elf and a elf, a half-elf and a human, etc...etc...If there is elf blood and human blood mixed in it, no matter the portions, it is a half-elf.
Quote from: Desertman on April 23, 2013, 05:27:09 PM
The official staff response on this was it always creates a half-elf.
Well, no, the official staff response was pretty much the opposite of that.
If I wanted to play someone who is more or less human, but has a tiny bit of elven blood, lets say one eighth, can I play as the human race?
Yeah, you're welcome to range from full-human to half-elf to elf and vary your bloodedness along the way. (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,35337.0.html)
---
For racism purposes, I think if you're tainted with elven blood, you're a half-elf. That doesn't necessarily mean that your coded race should be half-elf, though. I can see people creating coded humans that have some small fraction of elven blood in their heritage and playing them along those lines. (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,19103.0.html)
So the answer to the question, "What happens when a human and a half-elf breed?" is: "You get something that's between a human and a half-elf. (ie. a 1/4 elf)." The answer to the question "Can I have a coded human/elf with a very slight amount of elven/human ancestry?" is "Yes, but if it shows, people may sneer at you."
Yeah, I think someone who is 1/8 elf and 7/8 human...is pretty much human by that point, and you might not even know yourself...and the emotional instability wouldn't be that different from a regular emotional human...plus if you didn't know you had that bit of elven blood you wouldn't hate yourself for it.
1/4 elf 3/4 human would be the 'elf-like' breed...same for the reverse.
1/2 each would be your standard breed.
I figured the emotional instability of half-elves would be due more to nurture than nature, while still being some of both. If you consider the challenges a growing half-elf would face adapting to a world that hates them as having an effect on who they become, I think it makes sense. But yeah, can see how the conflicting elven/human instincts would also make things difficult.
Hmm, I recall there being a thread that disspointed me specifically.
The question asked was something like, "When a human and a elf mate, why can't the product be a full human if the human genes were dominant, or full elf if the elf genes were dominant?"
The response was a resounding, "If you have any mixture of elven and human blood in you, you are a half-elf."
I can't find it now, and it may have been over ten years ago, so it could be on the old boards. I just recall being dissapointed by it.
Of course, over the years opinions and official stances tend to change depending on who is on staff at the time, and Xygax's post is from 2009.
The old American one-drop rule?
I'm under the impression for some reason that that's the rule we follow.
If you have an elven great-great-great gran, and you know it and it comes out, you are filth and worthless just like that half-and-half over there.
EDIT: I understand that the above sounds redundant now but I have been wanting to ask that for a couple of days.
Quote from: Fredd on April 22, 2013, 01:15:51 AM
Quote from: The Silence of the Erdlus on April 22, 2013, 12:24:04 AM
It is unbelievable to me how many pass-for-human breeds are walking around in the game right now.
Not trolling: I mean, if you saw forty pieces of cheese stacked together on a plate rather than just two, you'd notice that too.
Quote from: Fredd on April 21, 2013, 07:07:08 PM
1/3rd elf is still a breed.
I kinda know what you mean but I wonder how a person could become literally one-third breed.
Its possible, right? If partial breeds have kids in the correct order with the correct percentage of dna?
I was just using it in the general sense of Elf fucks human, makes breed. Breed fucks human and makes 1/3rd breed.
Not sure what that would actually be. But it seems like 1/3rd
I made a handy dandy ms paint chart to explain this.
(http://i.imgur.com/urQu2qC.png)
You can have all sortsa weird fractions (3/8th 15/16ths, etc), but the denominator will always be divisible by two since all elves and humans (to my knowledge) have two parents.
Edit: Not only that, but the denom in LCD format will always only be powers of 2.
The only situation that would create the mystical 1/3rd elf would be if it had three biological parents, which does boggle the mind.
Quote from: The Silence of the Erdlus on April 24, 2013, 06:28:39 PM
The old American one-drop rule?
I'm under the impression for some reason that that's the rule we follow.
Yes. This is the case. When it comes to IG race, it tends to follow traditional Western Culture rules of race.
What if a 1/4th breed has a kid with a full elf?
3/4 elf, duh. ;p
Quote from: BleakOne on May 02, 2013, 08:53:32 PM
What if a 1/4th breed has a kid with a full elf?
"Half-elves are bad, yea, but what you really gotta watch out are those stinking five-eighths elves. They're the worst!"
I think the real questions here is...
what happens when the half-elf knocks up his MOUNT?? Or when the MOUNT knocks up the half elf?!
Do you end up with a mount that throws you off it's back and runs away to be wild and free, only to come back two weeks later and beg to be ridden again after apologizing profusely for being a dick?
Quote from: greasygemo on May 04, 2013, 08:20:57 AM
I think the real questions here is...
what happens when the half-elf knocks up his MOUNT?? Or when the MOUNT knocks up the half elf?!
Do you end up with a mount that throws you off it's back and runs away to be wild and free, only to come back two weeks later and beg to be ridden again after apologizing profusely for being a dick?
Made my morning.
New mount idea: Breedle.
Highly unreliable but cheap. Goes reasonably long distances but complains the entire time. 50/50 chance it will defend you and trample your foes to death or flip you off, offer you up and try to join up with the creatures you're fighting.
Quote from: greasygemo on May 04, 2013, 10:41:19 AM
Highly unreliable but cheap. Goes reasonably long distances but complains the entire time. 50/50 chance it will defend you and trample your foes to death or flip you off, offer you up and try to join up with the creatures you're fighting.
Sounds awfully a lot like my current character.