In my opinion it would be boss if indoor, and outdoor tracking were 100%, mutually exclusive with 0 overlap. Peace of mind and for the fact that stalking tracks in the sand or bent branches and foliage is not the same as how one 'tracks down' another in a city, especially a crowded, stone paved street one(think skyrim outdoors versus assassin's creed cities).
It would also be great if tracking could be contested by the sneak skill. Someone sneaking by default, should be much harder to locate (especially indoor tracking). But the idea being, without having to code up some new 'cover your tracks skills' simply have that factor in to attempts to locate someone's trail.
This is another 'quality of life' and or 'frustration' type of change suggestion. Mega huge change to the world? Not so much. Stop someone from flawlessly tracking you from Allanak's Gaj to Tuluk's Tooth? Probably justifiably so.
Its probably thin ice even on the suggestion in terms of talking game details, so I urge anyone contributing to keep it delicate.
I swore I read in a helpfile, or maybe a thread here, that it already works that way?
It does. Although, it is also possible via subguilds and special apps to possess both versions of these skills (city and wilderness).
I've recently tested this, as in, within the last I believe 6 months, with no such special considerations. I found the state to be what I have in the OP. I'm trying to avoid IG details, however.
City and wilderness versions will still work in their opposite environments, just with penalties. I'm thinking he wants wilderness track to not work AT ALL in the city, and vice versa.
Quote from: Kryos on December 07, 2012, 04:15:58 PM
I've recently tested this, as in, within the last I believe 6 months, with no such special considerations. I found the state to be what I have in the OP. I'm trying to avoid IG details, however.
That doesn't change how it actually is. There is minimal overlap. One would have to twink ridiculously to achieve the situation you've referenced (track from the Gaj to Tooth), given that they only possess one version of the skill.
Pure city hunt is terrible in the wilderness, and pure wilderness hunt is terrible in the city.
You can get maxed-out pure wilderness hunt to work at (guesstimate) 10-25% on the very easiest indoor rooms, and maybe a little higher when the track difficulties are extremely easy due to movement speed or blood trails. What you're probably experiencing is guild/subguild overlap. It works in a way that is not intuitive, which you can figure out on your own if you pay enough attention.
Quote from: Synthesis on December 07, 2012, 04:31:46 PM
You can get maxed-out pure wilderness hunt to work at (guesstimate) 10-25% on the very easiest indoor rooms ...
While somewhat recently trying to find out if a character of mine with wild hunt also had city, I did a little test when some fresh tracks passed. Ten attempts. Nine fails, and one success. I saw my own prints. Safe to say, it suxorz.
Way too much information if you ask me..... Yes it seems obvious to you all in retrospect, but my best adice would be to.
Quote from: Synthesis on December 07, 2012, 04:31:46 PM
pay enough attention.
Synth is correct.
Also.
QuoteIt is also great that tracking is contested by the sneak skill.
There, fixed that for ya.
Quote from: MeTekillot on December 07, 2012, 04:17:30 PM
City and wilderness versions will still work in their opposite environments, just with penalties. I'm thinking he wants wilderness track to not work AT ALL in the city, and vice versa.
Bingo.
In short, I've played through a situation where, no hyperbole, someone was tracked from the indoors of one city to the indoors of another by a pc with no such overlap. So yeah.
NO overlap. They are *entirely* different skills. This is what I purpose.
Looking for broken branches, footprints, or whatever mojo is used in high gusting sands (imagination time) does not translate into having contacts, bribing people, or pounding pavement to follow the movements of someone in an urban area.
QuoteIt is also great that tracking is contested by the sneak skill.
There, fixed that for ya.
If it is, sneak has a terribly small impact on the result. Pathetic, at best.
It would be better if it was much, much more difficult to do. As in, tie the creator's sneak skill into the 'tracks' object left in the room when created. Those tracking must contest that skill to find them.
Also, your snark only diminishes the value of what you say.
I like the idea of no over-lap between wilderness and outdoors skills. But the overlap that there is is so pathetic in my experience that this sort of change seems pointless.
Quote from: Kryos on December 13, 2012, 04:57:55 PM
If it is, sneak has a terribly small impact on the result. Pathetic, at best.
Because you've got the code right there to see, yes? Totally not basing it of anecdote, right?
Quote from: Kryos on December 13, 2012, 04:57:55 PM
It would be better if it was much, much more difficult to do. As in, tie the creator's sneak skill into the 'tracks' object left in the room when created. Those tracking must contest that skill to find them.
This is pretty much how it works.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on December 13, 2012, 05:24:53 PM
I like the idea of no over-lap between wilderness and outdoors skills. But the overlap that there is is so pathetic in my experience that this sort of change seems pointless.
Quote from: Kryos on December 13, 2012, 04:57:55 PM
If it is, sneak has a terribly small impact on the result. Pathetic, at best.
Because you've got the code right there to see, yes? Totally not basing it of anecdote, right?
Quote from: Kryos on December 13, 2012, 04:57:55 PM
It would be better if it was much, much more difficult to do. As in, tie the creator's sneak skill into the 'tracks' object left in the room when created. Those tracking must contest that skill to find them.
This is pretty much how it works.
Look ma', more snark.
If I can track myself sneaking with far less tracking ability then sneaking ability, that'd be one way to point it out. But, of course, the code could give a bonus to finding your own tracks.
But yes, in the experience that any one player of a game can have having used a particular facet of it, I've had what seems like little more difficultly tracking down sneaking people then I have normal walking.
Were this not the case, I wouldn't have bothered posting the thread.
Not so much snark Kryos, But we are limited in what we can actually talk about when it comes to code mechanics and skills on the GDB.
I can say, there are several factors in play, Some are surely the skill levels involved. Somebody without the sneak skill but sneaking is slightly harder to track then somebody walking, And somebody running is even easier to track.
There is even one thing that can make tracking a person no fail, assuming you have the skill, No matter where they are or what type skill in tracking you have.
But Other things that MIGHT factor is stats and skills OTHER then sneak or hunt.
All of the above and more is why the comment was made about you not being able to see the code and basing everything off anecdote. Specially after others have said, A: The difference between city and wilderness versions of said skill are actually drastic enough as to be, for all intents and purposes two different skills. B: Sneak does affect your ability to track somebody.
In short, What you want is how it mostly already works, and there are far too many variables for anecdotal evidence to carry any real weight. And we are not really allowed to be talking about those variables on the GDB.
Lastly, I think things are just fine the way they are, Defeating hunt is Woefully simple.
QuoteIn short, I've played through a situation where, no hyperbole, someone was tracked from the indoors of one city to the indoors of another by a pc with no such overlap. So yeah.
I don't think we're going to change a system entirely because of an anecdote about one person that may have done what you're talking about. Even if they did track someone from one city to another, I'd be more willing to bet they didn't type "hunt" in every room from Allanak to Tuluk.
And anyway, either you were:
the twink that did this if it did happen (shame on you)
the other player that got tracked if it did happen (no player complaint filed, but then again you'd have no idea how they tracked you)
a bystander that heard about it or knew about it (no player complaint filed)
So really, it does seem like an unbelievable story, and I do take the anecdote with a grain of salt. Let's say it's true, though. If true, one twinky player doing a series of twinky things does not make for a broken system, it makes for a twinky player. We have ways of dealing with that without involving code overhaul.
If the system can be used to the point it achieves what was described, and I am confident within the scope of my ability to observe that it was, the system has a malfunction. Counting on player restraint not to use something that is potentially abusive is a solution, but I view it as far from optimal.
I've got no bug up my crawl (that is, not looking to throw a gauntlet or pick a fight) and am not on some zealous quest. I just list out things that I believe would benefit the game and player enjoyment.
Without guild/subguild overlap (or magick), what you're describing is...impossible as far as I can think, right now. If it even happened as you described, there's a very high probability that it was overlap.
I just have to wonder how you know what said character's guild and subguild were, with absolute certainty. Something's not jiving, here.
Yeah...I think that your claim is bogus, and it is not grounds for a code change.
Some small overlap should be there like if you are a following a wounded pc in a city, I bet following the blood trail wouldn't be too much harder than in the wild. Oh look, another bloody footprint on the dust and ash covered street.
D-elf master wilderness hunt... one step in the Dun outpost... No tracks omgrdImdointwrongnobodyeverleavesLuirs?