Armageddon General Discussion Board

Hi. I don't usually say much here and when I do it's pretty short and generally unhelpful, but I wanted to start a discussion.
It's about getting murdered, and how it seems like it's always going to happen. The only thing I dislike about Armageddon is a kind of annoying culture of twink murder. I.E master assassin shadows you into your apartment somehow and knifes you to death, lolraider beats your head in in the wilderness, generic desert elf shoots you with a terradin arrow, etc etc etc. I feel like everything in Armageddon, is about predicting if the situation is going to get you murdered. You can't trust anyone, even if they seem trustworthy, because as soon as you get into a locked room or anywhere vulnerable they are killing you. And if they don't, you're on edge the entire time, and probably thinking they are playing it cool so NEXT time they can cut your throat when you think you're safe.
I have played other MUDS were the entire starting region and area was not crim-coded, where people could be killed anywhere without SUPER NPC charging into the room and massacaring your brain. But in this other MUD, people didn't do that. You could even go to people's houses and apartments and not fear being murdered, even if they were better armed and armoured. And the times it -did- happen, the RP surrounding the kill would often be examined by admins to make sure it wasn't a twink murder.
In summary, I am often afraid to get attached to PC's here, or branch out to trusting others for meaningful RP, because it seems so often and likely they gank you for no apparent reason. I would like some comments on how to overcome this, or if I'm just imagining it, or whatnot. I'd like help in how I can play without being paranoid and wandering if every person I get close to is really an assassin who wants to rip my spine out and play it like a banjo.
Thoughts?

I'm jealous you get murdered :(
No one loves me enough to do so.

... There are reasons behind most murders. ... That only makes the paranoia worse, though.  :-*
The paranoia is really useful to playing an elf, if you decide not to get rid of it.

I've been murdered twice in 10 years  :'(

Feel free to murder me more people.

Seriously..

I do get attached to my characters.. but I always working on new ones so when one dies I at least am not going to cry too much.  Sadly I have been still trying to get over the silly death of one I had awhile back :(

I would of much rather had him/her murdered.

I've been murdered once, ninja-style out of nowhere in a public place, and I can only assume it was for my boots because I have no idea who might have put a hit on that character. It's my most memorable character death. So much better than boredom storage or getting carru'd.

Given the choice of two evils - twink murders or rp police - I prefer the twinks. As an added bonus, it's one less thing for staff spend time on, so that means more time for animations and the really fun stuff.

Some might argue that what you are describing is actually the central theme to this game, that even if you aren't constantly getting killed the mere fact that you're always on edge and worried about it is precisely how you should feel. I've had an unreasonable number of characters, myself, and often die to the silliest blunders on my part. And on the occasion where I'm being murdered, my blunders usually somehow involve me inadvertantly helping the person trying to kill me. In other words, I f*** up big time. Added to this there are times where it feels like every character is out to get you, where there are no real loyalties amongst anyone in game, but most of that is from many years earlier - I think, for better or worse, Arm seems to have evolved a bit in that regard. Sometimes it can be fun to be part of the world of betrayal in Arm, but if you feel you'd like a change and don't want to constantly have to look over your shoulder every second, try different roles. There are roles in this game where you could live a good long while, without so much as making a single enemy. The problem is most players find these roles boring and don't stick with them for very long. I have a sneaking suspicion what kills most family merchants, for example, is retirement due to boredom, not actual PKilling.

So it's really just a question of what's most important to you as a player in the end. With excitement often comes risk and that might mean having to worry about being backstabbed in your apartment. But it's a trade off that most players accept, because those are the types of roles which keep them entertained.

Oh wow. I didn't really read the first post very well. I didn't realise it was a post about people twinking to kill you. I can honestly say I haven't witnessed a twink in this game in years. Are they out there? Of course. But the number of them has shrunken ridiculously and I'd say they're almost always newer players. Definitely no older player twinks hanging around still.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AMI feel like everything in Armageddon, is about predicting if the situation is going to get you murdered.

As I aluded to in my earlier post, I've been killed by a PC twice (three times if you count the time I attacked someone and they killed me in retaliation).

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AMYou can't trust anyone, even if they seem trustworthy, because as soon as you get into a locked room or anywhere vulnerable they are killing you.

I've had this happen once. It was in about 2004 and it was one of my most memorable deaths. If you trust people too quickly, you'll eventually die. There's plenty of people you can trust. The issue is that there are a smaller percentage of people you can't trust. Determining who you can and can't trust is the difficult part.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AMAnd if they don't, you're on edge the entire time, and probably thinking they are playing it cool so NEXT time they can cut your throat when you think you're safe.

The tagline for this MUD is death, betrayal, corruption. If you're getting your daily dose of death and betrayal then you're winning at this game.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AMI would like some comments on how to overcome this, or if I'm just imagining it, or whatnot. I'd like help in how I can play without being paranoid and wandering if every person I get close to is really an assassin who wants to rip my spine out and play it like a banjo.

First step: Get paranoid about everyone.
Second step: Act on this paranoia and take steps to ensure your safety.
Third step: Stop being the victim and start being the antagonist.

Or you can go my route and have so many meaningless deaths to the environment, animals and NPCs that you welcome any PvP action.

Barring all that. You could try Tuluk?

I kid. I kid. Please don't hate on me.

I have a running mental list of amoses I can:
a. Kill easily.
b. Kill if I get the drop/have a poison weapon.
c. Very likely could not kill unless under extremely favorable circumstances.
d. Would be destroyed if I even reached for my belt.

... I find little reason to act on the list, but still, it tickles me inside that I actually made it "just in case"..

Honestly, I would much rather go out getting backstabbed in a dark alley than like, forgetting to bring enough water or a stray scrab reel locking me.
So much more satisfying. It's like, Aw, they really needed me out of the way, I must have made a difference. :p

Murder. Corruption. Betrayal. Welcome to Armageddon.

It's taken me a while to get my feet wet! But me likey some kill-stab best-friend for-money!

Getting murdered doesn't happen very often. In happens unjustifiably even less often (almost never these days).

I have been playing since 2007 and I have only been PK'd 3 times. Once in the 'rinth because I ignored someone who put a sword in my face. Once by a templar because I had attacked an NPC templar (because of a weird dwarf focus). And once in the 'rinth because I alt-tabbed and forgot about the game. Basically I was asking for it each time.

All of the stuff in the OP is avoidable if you're careful. Don't be predictable about returning to your apartment or let strangers into your apartment. Don't make enemies and you probably won't have someone shadowing you. Don't go out of the city alone unless you're a badass or know you can run away from danger. Don't wander onto delf territory and be extremely careful if there have been a spate of poison murders on the desert roads.

Or do do these things, if you like roleplaying in a a way that facilitates murder, corruption, and betrayal. Not every character should be a genius survivalist, after all.

Those are some interesting comments, really made me think. I think the time I felt it was an attempted twink kill is because the person tried to use the crim code to get me killed as well as their assassin-fu skills. Another time I was lured out on a premise that exploited my character's good nature to help others, and a third time I was just dumb and got murdered in an apartment. It's interesting to think these kind of betrayals are what it's all supposed to be about, puts a new light on it for me. Please continue to comment, it's really helped so far.

Quote from: musashi on November 16, 2012, 02:40:28 AM
Murder. Corruption. Betrayal. Welcome to Armageddon.

While this is true, it is often taken to extremes.  I haven't been murdered in a LONG time and I think Immortals (who will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong) have stated that most PC deaths are due to NPCs. 

That said - the reason that bandits run in and attack is due to victim habit of fleeing.
The reason that murderers strike when they absolutely KNOW they can kill you is because they don't want to get caught or killed themselves.
Tons of threads on this unfortunate reality.

Some games handle conflict differently (and perhaps better in some ways, worse in others) but this is the game we have.

One thing I have had to learn over the years is to play my character and not play as myself codedly looking for advantage.  For example:  there is a difference between murdering a sentient being and killing an animal - do characters think like this? Mine do and won't generally wantonly wack a humanesque being.  I think that difference is often forgotten and its too the game's loss.  (Maybe this isn't as bad as it used to be - I play very little these days.)

It's a little like stealing - would EVERY character (or even MOST) characters just take whatever they could that didn't belong to them? I don't think so.  My most recent character did something like this and I had to pause and think - wait - that was stealing - would they really do that?

An unfortunate side effect of this is perhaps this situation (which has occurred a million times but most recently to me just a few days ago):

My character is in a wilderness location doing mundane stuff.
Another character rides in.
Character beelines away from my character before my character can emote. (Likely out of fear or perhaps to attack.)
My character leaves off what they are doing and beelines in another direction in an attempt to lose a suspected attacker.

It doesn't have to be like this and it's better when it's not. 

Note: Most recently, characters I've met in the wilderness have not been like this - which shows improvement and hope.   :D

Some of them are probably just ignoring you, DustMight. ;)

But yeah a big part of this game is dealing with the conflict, mistrust, and prejudice between a great deal of people. Remember, an elf is looking to screw you over to benefit their tribe, or at least enforce their territory, breeds are unstable, dwarves will put their focus ahead of you every time, foreigners are barbaric or loyal to things you don't understand, nobles are looking to advance their own ambitions and eliminate threats to the Way Things Are, long-lived characters/older people are jaded and bitter from the deaths of a great many friends & allies, due to the great quantity of unnatural disasters & conflict most people grew up in a somewhat broken home, there is a culture of violence of some manner in every city (and often between tribes - see most recent war), the price of survival is dear and the desperate take any advantage they can get, and when you start getting successful, others are going to want their cut of the pie. And don't get me started on radioactive magickers.

It's what makes things exciting, really. Dying to someone who Wants You Dead is a more satisfying part of a story than falling off the shield wall and into an unanimated NPC, and most murderers do want to make things exciting and scary for you and bring the world alive (hah), not just add to a kill count! Welcome to Zalanthas! Hope you have Fun^TM here.  ;)

While I don't know if you play humans or not, I'd like to add that most PKs I see happening are 'misfits' who don't seem to know their place. Mouthy breeds who act as if they are someone special and go nuts over being treated like a disgusting breed, mutants who insist on their right to socialize and mudsex as if they were normal people, rinthi elves acting as if they own the place, gemmed mages threatening important people. Sometimes misfits get killed only because they turn out to be misfits and their employer / ally feels they would harm their reputation if they stayed affiliated with them. Or because -someone- had to be blamed and that annoying breed came in handy, because blaming an affiliated human would have caused trouble.

The trust issue is closely related. I've played humans who had friends / lovers who would have died for them. But breeds with 'friends' are often just treated as a 'friend' for as long as they are useful, then discarded. Mutants are in the same category. And elves by nature don't trust anyone but their own tribe unless someone passes a long series of complex tests.

Protip: Mundane humans who know their place in society live longer. Guaranteed.

Quote from: Akaramu on November 16, 2012, 07:39:30 AM
Protip: Mundane humans who know their place in society live longer. Guaranteed.

My come back to addiction character wouldn't die. By rights she got involved with powerful people who could have killed her for everything she did, but because she was useable and trustworthy she slipped the knife soooooooo much I retired her. She knew get place, she knew she was a pawn and was willingly so to whomever she was loyal to at the time.

I,  as a player, wanted her murdered, wanted her corrupted, wanted her betrayed. It's why I play Armageddon, because it's a krathdamned existence, you're GOING to die, it's just a matter of how juicily.

You're doing something right! Kudos!

I love being murdered just wish some emotes, hemotes or something would be done before, and during. but thats also do to perhaps a lack of trust on the other players part. Do to others swiftly fleeing or what not. I had one death I so hated and would of wished it went the way of emotes and more. To draw me in, but I can see also why it was done the way it was. I've done it, do to lack of trusting another player.

This i would love to see changed, more people trusting each other and emoting during the more obvious killings, instead of swiftly going to code. now assassinations are a little bit different, not much you can really do if your hiding in the shadows in a closet.

Quote from: Clavis on November 16, 2012, 08:40:44 AM
I love being murdered just wish some emotes, hemotes or something would be done before, and during. but thats also do to perhaps a lack of trust on the other players part. Do to others swiftly fleeing or what not. I had one death I so hated and would of wished it went the way of emotes and more. To draw me in, but I can see also why it was done the way it was. I've done it, do to lack of trusting another player.

This i would love to see changed, more people trusting each other and emoting during the more obvious killings, instead of swiftly going to code. now assassinations are a little bit different, not much you can really do if your hiding in the shadows in a closet.

A couple of important points that have been made before:

RP happens before and during most PKs, but more often beforehand.  Consider some pivotal deaths in the world of cinema and television.  There are some in Game of Thrones, Battlestar Galactica, Serenity, The Walking Dead, etc.  There are times when pivotal characters are killed and they do understand why they are dying, but many a time, they don't know at all.  It comes as a shock.  They occasionally get a moment to RP a bit before fading away.  It's sad to say this, but if your character is the victim of a PK, their story was already written and is a footnote to someone else's story, and in the end, even their story will be a footnote in the greater story of the game.  I've been that footnote and it is tough to accept at times, especially when you don't know what the other person was thinking.

There are some rare opportunities for someone to have absolute power over a victim in Armageddon.  Usually, this sort of power is reserved for those that plan well and are lucky, or those that have roles in which they command that kind of power codedly (oftentimes both).  If your PC's goal is to have that victim PC killed, sometimes players will err on the side of getting the task done because that is the point of the plot:  to have the victim killed.  That death drives future plots even as it closes down the thread of life that the victim PC possessed.

Also, if you're hiding in the shadows of a closet, you're probably missing out on the real fun of being an assassin (with or without the skills or guild).  I wouldn't say that you're doing it wrong...you're just missing out.

Many times your character is killed there are reasons behind it that you would never think about.

Example:  You were inside a Tavern and you gave someone a pat on the back and said, "You're a good friend, Amos."

There was a breed that HATES Amos.  He was teased by Amos.  He has Amos on a hit-list.  He wants to hurt Amos in the worst way possible.  Good friend, he says?  GOOD FRIEND HE SAYS?  I just wanted some friends!  Why can't I have any friends like THAT GUY!  -stabbity stab-

There are so many reasons to kill someone else in this game and a lot of them are probably never even eluded too directly to your character.  You may never know you offended someone or became part of some elaborate plot.  You're lucky if you do, though!

I have yet to be outright PK'd without directly knowing what was happening.  Most of my player deaths are NPC's, but I have been in a few knife-fights before, and those are rather obvious :0

As a note, all those assassins that straight up murder you instead of sweetly emoting your torture are probably doing so because they don't want you to pick up your invisible mind cell phone and telling the entire world... or they don't want you spam fleeing and telling the entire world. More than likely they have good reason to assassinate you and have RPed out all the interesting stuff with verbose elites before you even see them (or with semotes) because they can't trust you.

A good portion of the time when my PC has something to lose and I give the other player the benefit of the doubt, I am disappointed. (SPAM FLEE/BROADCAST SDESC TO KNOWN WORLD.) So fuck you guys, you gonna die for seemingly no reason.

Yeaaa... I figure I'll hope that if I do have to murder someone, that they will black out first/go to like -9hp or something, so I have a chance to emote looming over them while they wheeze or something, but I wouldn't leave them the chance, to (Way Templar, Psi The tall, muscular man just stuck rammed a sword into my ribs!! Sound the alarm!!) unless for some reason I wanted to increase my OWN risk of being quietly subdued and have my head cracked open later..

Quote from: Nyr on November 16, 2012, 09:22:39 AM
Also, if you're hiding in the shadows of a closet, you're probably missing out on the real fun of being an assassin (with or without the skills or guild).  I wouldn't say that you're doing it wrong...you're just missing out.

Care to explain this bit? I'm not sure I understand what you wanted to say.

One of my favorite kills was somebody I totally hated murdering OOCly, but it involved deception, teamwork, a friendly chat with brandy, and a casual ear-whisper before the fatal blow.

Nobody seemed to believe I actually did it, either. They blamed it on the much more badass-sounding fella that wanted him dead...

I think that might be what Nyr meant. The roleplay surrounding a bait and switch, lure, deception, etc, is more fun than using >hide >backstab.

I think hiding in someones closet and waiting for them to sit down to a slice of ginka pie before you swoop out, dagger drawn, is pretty fun sounding to me... plus it leaves you an awesome opening to do things like, Way Victim, psi Enjoying your last meal? or, a nicely prepared emote like, say (emerging from the shadows behind %amos back, pressing a knife to the base of ^amos spine) Welcome home. Before you type backstab amos. :p

Greasygemo:  That can be fun, yes...but what Delirium is talking about is way more fun, at least to me.  Bonus points if you can get someone close to the target to betray them.

Quote from: Delirium on November 16, 2012, 10:25:53 AM
One of my favorite kills was somebody I totally hated murdering OOCly, but it involved deception, teamwork, a friendly chat with brandy, and a casual ear-whisper before the fatal blow.

Nobody seemed to believe I actually did it, either. They blamed it on the much more badass-sounding fella that wanted him dead...

I think that might be what Nyr meant. The roleplay surrounding a bait and switch, lure, deception, etc, is more fun than using >hide >backstab.

I thought that might be the case but I wanted to confirm. While being a cool & suave assassin is very fun, I prefer stalking my victim at night and knife on their pulsating carotid artery. Depends on the player and the character. (I look forward to the time I actually pull out a hit).

I don't mind being killed (and have been killed a lot, once so suddenly that I thought it was a bug or something) as long as it makes a shred of sense for the other guy to do it.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AM
master assassin shadows you into your apartment somehow and knifes you to death, lolraider beats your head in in the wilderness, generic desert elf shoots you with a terradin arrow, etc etc etc. I feel like everything in Armageddon, is about predicting if the situation is going to get you murdered. You can't trust anyone, even if they seem trustworthy, because as soon as you get into a locked room or anywhere vulnerable they are killing you.

You live in a world where thousands of people literally thirst and starve to death every single day right infront of your character's eyes. Every single person in the world is desperate to just see tomorrow.

Of course you have to worry about every single person you know deciding if you are their next leg up to making it another day. Be happy they don't eat you, because that is a VERY common thing your character would see happening often depending on where you play too.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AM

And if they don't, you're on edge the entire time, and probably thinking they are playing it cool so NEXT time they can cut your throat when you think you're safe.

And I love this aspect. Real friends in a world of vicious starving desperate murderers is a very rare thing. When you do find a real friend IC, it makes you value them A LOT more. I prefer this.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AM

You could even go to people's houses and apartments and not fear being murdered, even if they were better armed and armoured. And the times it -did- happen, the RP surrounding the kill would often be examined by admins to make sure it wasn't a twink murder.

I don't see the difference. This is exactly how it is in Armageddon for all of my characters. I can honestly say I have never once been apartment-locked-killed in 14+ years of playing this game. (Jail cells do not count.)

You have to be more careful man. If you think you can trust them. Don't. If you know you can trust them. Don't. If they are somehow invested in your character living and it will profit them in some way for your character to continue living....THAT is when you trust them. Not before then.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AM

In summary, I am often afraid to get attached to PC's here, or branch out to trusting others for meaningful RP, because it seems so often and likely they gank you for no apparent reason.

Please see previous comments about starvation, thirsting to death, murder, rape, slavery, torture, cannibalism, and pretty much every other "evil" thing you can think of being as common place in Zalanthas as your neighbor mowing his grass once a week on Earth.

There is always a reason. The very fact anyone exists at all in Zalanthas is a reason to kill you and take your boots.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AM

Thoughts?

Stop following elves places. (just joking)

Play in Tuluk. (also just joking, sort of)

I'm not trying to be a dick my man. I promise. I know I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know. But, you just described everything that makes me enjoy this game....

Quote from: greasygemo on November 16, 2012, 10:29:47 AM
I think hiding in someones closet and waiting for them to sit down to a slice of ginka pie before you swoop out, dagger drawn, is pretty fun sounding to me... plus it leaves you an awesome opening to do things like, Way Victim, psi Enjoying your last meal? or, a nicely prepared emote like, say (emerging from the shadows behind %amos back, pressing a knife to the base of ^amos spine) Welcome home. Before you type backstab amos. :p

see that's what I'm talking about stuff like that I find more refreshing and less frustrating when your the victim then just a sudden storm of code. Especially when some of the things wouldn't be possible, or would be more difficult to carry out. or the sudden mantis head flaring after a successful master backstab.

Quote from: Delirium on November 16, 2012, 10:25:53 AM
One of my favorite kills was somebody I totally hated murdering OOCly, but it involved deception, teamwork, a friendly chat with brandy, and a casual ear-whisper before the fatal blow.

Nobody seemed to believe I actually did it, either. They blamed it on the much more badass-sounding fella that wanted him dead...

I think that might be what Nyr meant. The roleplay surrounding a bait and switch, lure, deception, etc, is more fun than using >hide >backstab.

lol, so love that.  

Quote from: Akaramu on November 16, 2012, 07:39:30 AM
Protip: Mundane humans who know their place in society live longer. Guaranteed.

Bingo!

It is nice that the docs dictate the social mores. Good roleplaying, however, should more often than not work to either enforce those mores, or specifically work to undermine them.

Example: My byn runner mouths off to an Aide. A couple of weeks later, the sergeant says that his good buddy has it on "good" authority that I have been leaving the gates. He wants his share, and the Byn share, of the profits. "But I wasn't leaving the gates!"

"Pay up, Runner, and get ready for your whippin'."

What happened? A social network went into action to make my character's life miserable. And now I have to collect 300 coins to pay off the sergeant, who also had his pockets lined by the Aide (who was once also in the Byn).

And then the local law enforcement is keeping an eye on my Runner, because he is a troublemaker. But this makes me look for others who do not get along with these people, to watch my back.

But what is really setting this off? My character didn't recognize the power structure. He didn't already pay off the sergeant with part of his ill-gotten gains. He didn't pay a breed to spill soup on the aide's shoes, instead of doing it himself.

In the end, maybe someone gets knifed over this, but it is the lead-up that really counts.

P.S. More bribery. More interaction. Your reputation is the only thing that keeps you safe, most weeks. The reputation of the organization you might belong to does the same. They save your life, so protect them with your resources.

P.P.S. If you are in a leadership position, when people come to you with problems like this, hand the problem back to them.
Empoloyee: "Bynner Amos was insulting me publically!"
Employer: "Can't have that. Get together with Malik and solve it. Here's 200 coins to cover any costs."

P.P.P.S Yes, I am suggesting that nobles and other "higher-class" leaders act like managers, not supervisors. Not always, but set a personal line for the kind of problem that is "below your pay grade" and stick with it.

Murder, corruption, betr- IT'S THE FIRST ONE!!!!

OP sounds like they're experiencing the game correctly.

When you make a character you doom them to one of two fates: a tragic, untimely, and probably violent demise or a disappointing retirement.  It is the things you do beforehand, though, that are most important.

Whoops wrong thread!

I'm easily confused.

Quote from: Delirium on November 16, 2012, 10:25:53 AM
One of my favorite kills was somebody I totally hated murdering OOCly, but it involved deception, teamwork, a friendly chat with brandy, and a casual ear-whisper before the fatal blow.

Nobody seemed to believe I actually did it, either. They blamed it on the much more badass-sounding fella that wanted him dead...

That was the coolest death scene of all time and I felt honored my character was murdered so epicly. <3

Hold on, I'mma let you finish, but X-D was the greatest murderer of all time.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 16, 2012, 01:09:19 AM
Hi. I don't usually say much here and when I do it's pretty short and generally unhelpful, but I wanted to start a discussion.
It's about getting murdered, and how it seems like it's always going to happen.

Like.

Quote
I feel like everything in Armageddon, is about predicting if the situation is going to get you murdered.

Like.

Quote
You can't trust anyone, even if they seem trustworthy...

Like.

Quote

In summary, I am often afraid....

Like.

Anyway, here's a tip:  if you're -that- afraid of being sold out, and you absolutely can't stand the idea that you don't have trustworthy friends, just play tribal elves, dude.

I think I'm yet to ever be murdered by X-D's characters. I've only known one whom he drove for sure though, since a previous character of mine was in the clan his was. Most of the time, I evaded murder, was by being not totally stupid and recognizing the positions both mine and his characters were in, during the time of our meetings.

Counting the last five of my PKs. I would say the very last one was akin to stealth,stealth,stealth/backstab, and the previous four were more of yap,yap,yap,whisper,yap,wink/the victim dies variety. And granted, the previous four were much more enjoyable then the last one. But ... there simply "has' to be a place for them as well. While scheming is infinitely more enjoyable (for me), I believe there always has to be an element of wanton violence somewhere close by. Far too many people seem to be bent on outliving their enemies, hoping they will die all on their own and they would 'win' by default.

I'm kind of curious about the mud scarecrow mentioned. This mud ... did it have permanent death? An RPI environment where people could place their game ambitions/fears over friendships and relationships towards other players? (Players, not characters).  

Out of what Scarecrow mentioned, I do find the whole "abusing the crim code" part a little questionable though. Any PK where you basically allow the hardcoded NPCs do all the work leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Generally, if you really 'do' want to play a character where you know for a 'fact' that there are some people out there with complete loyalty to you. Try delves. The tribe will be loyal to you, the rest of the world will hate you. But let's be honest ... the rest of the world hates you regardless.

This is now the "How to play Armageddon without dying... to X-D" thread.

Play a dorf that makes friends with other dorfs.

There is skill to not getting murdered, I havnt had anyone succeed for over four real life years.  One can learn to see what signs and situations to avoid.  I would probably be a better rper if I let my char fall for things more often.

Quote from: Is Friday on November 16, 2012, 02:25:43 PM
Play a dorf that makes friends with other dorfs.

Whatever you do do not join his resistance.





Whatever you do do not resist his resistance.

Never getting killed by a PC is not something to be proud of.

Quote from: Nyr on November 16, 2012, 09:22:39 AM
It's sad to say this, but if your character is the victim of a PK, their story was already written and is a footnote to someone else's story, and in the end, even their story will be a footnote in the greater story of the game.

Well said.

Thanks for all the comments. I feel less bad about being murdered now.
When I can, I'll still probably try that loner desert elf tribal though, heh.  :)

Remember it's always more fun to be the murderer than the murdered.

Desert elves are not loners! That's kind of the point. :)

Love it when one of my chars get's properly murdered, way beats dying to some stupid dumb mistake (as per usual). Everyone dies. It's almost better when chars die young, I start to get worried when they live too long because there's more chance of it actually being sad when they die.

(Still hate you, RGS >.> Only kidding)

I prefer storing characters to them getting PKed, at least then my romantic, tender little self can let them live happily ever after after I've stopped ruining their life.  :P

As I once said: Creating a character is taking an unsuspecting VNPC, and ruining their life.

Quote from: Akaramu on November 16, 2012, 06:11:09 PM
Creating a character is taking an unsuspecting VNPC, and ruining their life.

Don't mind me while I sig this.. It's way too true with the way I treat my characters  ::)

I vastly prefer dying to other people than to my own stupidity.

Regarding my preferred OOC methods of murdering people, I definitely have a few, even if I don't do it that often. I truly believe that most of the time, I have managed to give my victims an entertaining scene before the final blow, but sometimes it can be difficult for a number of reasons. And sometimes it has probably seemed rather senseless to the other party, which I OOCly regretted. But on the other hand, my characters aren't all Bond villains who lay out their evil plots step by step while they've got their victim tied to a chair.

For example, I once played a member of a tribe that had some very particular views about killing, including a specific ritual that involved sharing and drinking the blood of a kill with your beloved kinsfolk. Y'know, so the babbies would grow up strong or whatever. The blood had to come from somewhere. Said tribe occupied a rather dangerous part of the world where it is usually a bad idea to trespass, so when I came upon an unaffiliated random dude doing just that, I hunted him down and slowly stalked him with lots and lots of totally awesome RP and thinks and feels and hidden emotes and cool shit that he NEVER SAW.

He did see a few arrows and then a couple spears to the face, but it occurred to me later that he probably felt like he got randomly ganked for his crappy newb loot. I felt bad. I'm sorry, random guy. I just needed your blood. And I couldn't take enough of it to suit my purposes without killing you.

I try my best to be a conscientious player whether I'm killing people or not, and I think the vast majority of our playerbase follows a similar guideline.

Anyway, the best way to avoid getting killed by X-D's characters is to be either his boss or his protege.

The best way to avoid getting murdered in general is to be useful.

XD is a cuddly sweetikins. Also, he giggles LIKE A BOSS.

Assassination > Mob-critter-death.

No matter which side of the death you're on.

Murder. Corruption. Betrayal. 

This is true, and yet it is up to interpretation when it comes to explaining its role in the game.  There are only a handful of people who dictate the rules and over-all play of this game - we've been told flat out, "when we want your opinion we'll give it to you."  So, it's all about how they interpreted the game they inherited.  This is an OOC issue.

Murder:  currently, Arm is coded to focus on PC-on-PC killing.  It is the easiest to do via code, it is the easiest to set up and be approved as far as PC reports go, and it is what is enforced when discussing how things should be happening.  With a lack of options like maiming, slavery, physical punishment, denying of food/water/sids AND the OOC mood set where one doesn't simply "give" and accept social punishment; murder becomes the only way. 

Corruption:  currently there isn't any focus here.  Not a lot of documentation about how to implement it nor code-wise way to make this an option in game.  The OOC mood set, is there is no ceiling to corruption.  Meaning, it is thought that if a soldier can be paid off to look the other way when a human wish to beat up on a 'rinither breed... that same soldier can be paid off to look the other way when an elf wants to kill a diplomat.  As if somehow corruption is only a matter of sids, instead of this fluctuation does society take a hard stance against verse what is considered "gray area" where a greased palm can make things happen. 

Betrayal: again, the current administrative focus is one that there shouldn't be any trust.  And so it goes back to the corruption thing -- there is no clear line where a PC would say "Yes, I'd do it for this; no, I wouldn't do it for a kit-kat bar" 


There are very few players who are flat-out twinks.  I think what we're seeing are more A) players who can't help but twink - in order for their PCs to survive they need skills and they need to not only work inside but take advantage of every coded opportunity.
B) The OOC lack of trust between players and staff -- that's Arm's mood, not Zananthas'.

       I agree that it's always more fun to be killed by a player than by something random or an accident. However, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore. This is especially true if you are the player with all the power such as a templar or noble. Instead of executing a character, you might exile him until he completes what might seem like an impossible task for you. This happened to one of my characters long ago and resulted in one of my all time favorites after I completed the impossible task. I realize this isn't always possible, but it's something to consider.

-Williamson

Quote from: williamson on November 17, 2012, 09:36:26 AM
However, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore.

This probably doesn't happen more often due to the same issue brought up before: Lack of trust in other players. It seems that some, if left alive, will enter emorage revengemode and dedicate the rest of their existence towards eradicating the person who left them alive, their friends, their families, and their pet gortok. Instead of shuffling away, praising the local godking for the fact that they are still alive, and starting a new, more cautious life.

I'm finally no longer a PK virgin. I'll try and make people miserable instead of killing them, if possible. I hope I can trust my victims / enemies to do the same.

I have to disagree with 2 'sids flat out on his corruption take. I've had a very different experience.

Quote from: musashi on November 17, 2012, 10:55:35 AM
I have to disagree with 2 'sids flat out on his corruption take. I've had a very different experience.

Care to elaborate?   

Quote from: williamson on November 17, 2012, 09:36:26 AMI agree that it's always more fun to be killed by a player than by something random or an accident.

I gotta be honest and disagree with the general concensus here. I never think being killed (by a player or an NPC for that matter) is "cool". I never see the mantis head scroll before me and go "Wow, dying was so much fun! Please kill the character I've put so many hours into again!" If death were what I considered a fun aspect of the game then I would go through a new character every week, perhaps even every day, and I'd put the bare minimum into writing them. Perhaps the only time it might get a chuckle or a smile out of me is if I was getting progressively exhausted with my character anyway and conscious or sub-conscious recklessness on my part began to lead to his death in the first place. Death is a crucial aspect of the game because it gives my character's life meaning in the first place. But I most certainly don't jump for joy when my character is killed. At best I might give a nod of respect to the player who pulled off a successful and well RPed PKill against me, but that should be sharply contrasted with the feeling I get when I chow down on an icecream sundae, for example. One makes me smile, the other does not.

QuoteHowever, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore. This is especially true if you are the player with all the power such as a templar or noble. Instead of executing a character, you might exile him until he completes what might seem like an impossible task for you. This happened to one of my characters long ago and resulted in one of my all time favorites after I completed the impossible task. I realize this isn't always possible, but it's something to consider.

Hell yeah. The harshness of the game isn't toned down any when you do something mean and nasty to a character besides just killing them. I would have to give a tremendous hats off and standing ovation to anyone who dumped my character, naked, in the wilderness with just enough distance from the city to make it back on foot, or something like that. Boy, is my character angry he lost all of his worldly possessions - but hey, he was given a second chance! That deserves some serious props.

Quote from: My 2 sids on November 17, 2012, 11:07:34 AM

Quote from: musashi on November 17, 2012, 10:55:35 AM
I have to disagree with 2 'sids flat out on his corruption take. I've had a very different experience.

Care to elaborate?   

I will a little later. At a bar ATM and just happened to check the GDB in the lull of one set swapping out for another.

Quote from: Suhuy on November 17, 2012, 11:15:39 AM

Quote from: williamson on November 17, 2012, 09:36:26 AMI agree that it's always more fun to be killed by a player than by something random or an accident.

I gotta be honest and disagree with the general concensus here. I never think being killed (by a player or an NPC for that matter) is "cool"... At best I might give a nod of respect to the player who pulled off a successful and well RPed PKill against me, but that should be sharply contrasted with the feeling I get when I chow down on an icecream sundae, for example. One makes me smile, the other does not.

QuoteHowever, I feel that players sometimes forget that it can be pretty fun to beat someone down and let them live. I've found that if you leave someone alone, unconscious, naked and minus an ear that they get the message not to mess with you anymore. This is especially true if you are the player with all the power such as a templar or noble. Instead of executing a character, you might exile him until he completes what might seem like an impossible task for you. This happened to one of my characters long ago and resulted in one of my all time favorites after I completed the impossible task. I realize this isn't always possible, but it's something to consider.

Hell yeah. The harshness of the game isn't toned down any when you do something mean and nasty to a character besides just killing them. I would have to give a tremendous hats off and standing ovation to anyone who dumped my character, naked, in the wilderness with just enough distance from the city to make it back on foot, or something like that. Boy, is my character angry he lost all of his worldly possessions - but hey, he was given a second chance! That deserves some serious props.

For the first part of this I would agree and disagree with. I don't think it's ever "fun" to end up dead! It's generally a depressing and frustrating moment. I've broken one head-set that fell from my head when I bolted up after one death and cracked on the ground! However in retrospect after a suitable time period (and usually a character or two since the death) I am able to look back at a character death and say that it was, or at least the scene(s) surrounding it, was "cool".

I agree completely with the second statement. Anyone ballsy enough to leave an enemy alive after thoroughly humiliating them is seriously awesome.

Old man story time:

In 2007 my half-elf Amos (my real name Amos character) was picked up by a northern templar (Serilla) after being falsely accused as a southern spy. Amos was interrogated, tortured and then forced to eat one of his eyes after it had been plucked from his face before being stripped of belongings and exiled from Tuluk with Serilla suggesting he would only be safe if the did a little spying in Allanak and came up with some information for her. Upon arriving in Allanak Amos was immediately rounded up by a southern templar (Samos) who had been warned by his real northern spy, the one who had spread the false accusations about Amos in Tuluk, and was thrown into the arena to be beaten up by a gith gladiator before being exiled from Allanak! Facing a trek through the desert a second time Amos died to some wilderness critter, scrab or silt horror I think, as he tried to find solace in Red Storm.

At the time I was seriously frustrated at the death because I had all this awesome history with the character now. Exiled from both Tuluk and Allanak with awesome scenes, templars from both cities invading his mind with encouragement to spy for them, it would have been epic! Looking back now though it was epic. Serilla and Samos both exemplified the "beating someone down but letting them live" scenario but Amos' death in the middle of nowhere as he struggled to find some solace in a harsh world was just as appropriate for the story it has left me.

Quote from: My 2 sids on November 17, 2012, 09:23:08 AM
Murder. Corruption. Betrayal. 

This is true, and yet it is up to interpretation when it comes to explaining its role in the game.  There are only a handful of people who dictate the rules and over-all play of this game - we've been told flat out, "when we want your opinion we'll give it to you."  So, it's all about how they interpreted the game they inherited.  This is an OOC issue.

Murder:  currently, Arm is coded to focus on PC-on-PC killing.  It is the easiest to do via code, it is the easiest to set up and be approved as far as PC reports go, and it is what is enforced when discussing how things should be happening.  With a lack of options like maiming, slavery, physical punishment, denying of food/water/sids AND the OOC mood set where one doesn't simply "give" and accept social punishment; murder becomes the only way.

Those options are pretty available in my experience, except for slavery (one can argue it is technically available, but since it just leads to storage, it's better to come up with a good death scene for the victim instead). Do you have to be smart about inflicting it, and okay with taking it? Sure. To me, murder is generally the last resort. Whether the person receiving less lethal punishment actually accepts it or changes their ways, or goes into super-revenge mode, or something in between, it progresses the overall storyline of the game in some way, either by changing the conflict or escalating it. I think being killed by a PC is preferable to being killed by an NPC, but it's kind of like saying I prefer sticking my finger in an electrical outlet to taking a bath with a toaster. Both kind of suck, and I prefer that less lethal responses be given a try in a plot if it is ICly acceptable to do that.

QuoteCorruption:  currently there isn't any focus here.  Not a lot of documentation about how to implement it nor code-wise way to make this an option in game.  The OOC mood set, is there is no ceiling to corruption.  Meaning, it is thought that if a soldier can be paid off to look the other way when a human wish to beat up on a 'rinither breed... that same soldier can be paid off to look the other way when an elf wants to kill a diplomat.  As if somehow corruption is only a matter of sids, instead of this fluctuation does society take a hard stance against verse what is considered "gray area" where a greased palm can make things happen.

Corruption isn't just about taking and giving bribes, in my experience. "Corruption" encompasses a whole range of attitudes and actions that, overall, lead to a self-serving attitude. You can take and give bribes, sure. But it's also possible to blackmail people, to deceive people, to say one thing to some and another thing to others. To hold allegiances in secret. To hide being a magicker or sorcerer from the authorities. To be in a position of power and pretend to only use that power for good, but actually also use that power for yourself on the side. To let your superior in your tribe/House/Byn unit die in a hunting accident so you can take their place. To care only about making a profit, regardless of how many people get hurt or killed. Being anything less than a completely morally good person is corruption, and frankly, almost every PC I've seen has been noticeably corrupt in the sense I've described, in my years of playing. The rest probably just hid it too well.

QuoteBetrayal: again, the current administrative focus is one that there shouldn't be any trust.  And so it goes back to the corruption thing -- there is no clear line where a PC would say "Yes, I'd do it for this; no, I wouldn't do it for a kit-kat bar"

I don't think there shouldn't be any trust. Just that there should be risks to misplacing trust - which there does seem to be. It's up to us to determine what is reasonable in that regard.

Suhuy you are right.  When I say rather have my character die from a PC it is because I accepted that this is a permadeath MUD and my character will die.  

Getting too attached to your character is something I try not to do.  I took someone else's advice  mentioned on the GDB and played the game as if I am pushing some puppet around.  When bad things happen to them, I can laugh about it also.

So with that in mind the reason I rather have my character die from a PC is because
1.  They are going to die anyways.
2.  At least he/she died apart of some story, they had some purpose in the game.  Not me just getting bored and storing or dies from some pointless cause.  Deaths like that your PC might as well never existed.  Making some sort of impact on the other PCs has been my goal in this game.

But this isn't a PK mud, so I will fight to remind people that dying or killing is not something to be hurt or proud of.  Characters who get things done without any code are -much- more impressive.

Quote from: My 2 sids on November 17, 2012, 09:23:08 AM
Corruption:  currently there isn't any focus here.  Not a lot of documentation about how to implement it nor code-wise way to make this an option in game.  The OOC mood set, is there is no ceiling to corruption.  Meaning, it is thought that if a soldier can be paid off to look the other way when a human wish to beat up on a 'rinither breed... that same soldier can be paid off to look the other way when an elf wants to kill a diplomat.  As if somehow corruption is only a matter of sids, instead of this fluctuation does society take a hard stance against verse what is considered "gray area" where a greased palm can make things happen. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "not a lot of code-wise way to make corruption an option in game". However, it hasn't been my experience at all that there is no ceiling to corruption. Corruption seems to exists within well defined parameters all through out the game world, clan to clan. As a simple, easy to see example ... a southern templar can be corrupt in very different ways than a northern templar can, and vice versa.

A southern militia soldier is going to be far less likely to take bribes from a foreigner than from a south side born and bred, as another example.

Corruption has never seemed to me to just be a matter of 'sids. In fact corruption has never seemed to me to be a matter of 'sids at all. Rather, it typically manifests as a matter of who you know. People looking out for their own at the expense of a victim, ect ect.

Half of the fun is dying. I never put in any love or provide any attachment to my characters so Im never disappointed with their cause of death, usually gives me a laugh when they finally go.

I think for me it's less attachment to the character and more attachment to whatever they were trying to achieve. If you have a goal to achieve, that starts to look attainable...for example building something, having a law changed, starting a really cool plot...all this stuff requires a certain amount of RL energy, time and dedication. When you have invested a certain amount and then a character dies before said goal is achieved...then that can be a bit sad. Even more so when your characters death leaves other people in a more difficult (OOC'ly rather than IC'ly challenging) situation or not being able to pick up where you left off.

Otherwise, yeah, everybody dies!

What makes me saddest about dying is that all those other PCs who were dependent on me for whatever, suddenly end up with a void there. That probably what makes me sad about death. When my chara is unknown and his life is not paramount to anything particular, his death doesnt usually bother me much.

Quote from: Dar on November 17, 2012, 06:21:26 PM
What makes me saddest about dying is that all those other PCs who were dependent on me for whatever, suddenly end up with a void there. That probably what makes me sad about death. When my chara is unknown and his life is not paramount to anything particular, his death doesnt usually bother me much.

Similar to how there were a bunch of PCs that died in the wake of the HRPT a few years ago, and suddenly there were a bunch of RP holes and leadership roles (Poet Laureate style) that needed filling. It was less sad that PCs died, and more that all the living PCs lost good friends maybe.

I feel like I got some Kudos.

Dar has the right of it though. If you want to avoid death by one of my PCs AND many others, specially templars etc. Recognize the position you are in and act in a realistic fashion. (disclaimer, The upcoming does not work if I am playing an assassin, because if I am doing it right, you will not know till the mantis head) If you are in a situation where the aggresser PC SURELY has you outgunned Here are the key actions, All of which people have used on me in the past and avoided death, Some of them I have used. GROVEL, Beg, Bribe, FLATTER. Show fear for your life. Pcs that are all bravado in the face of certain death are assumed to simply not care if they die and are often not dissapointed.

I highlight Grovel and Flatter because I find they work best on truly high powered PCs, Bribing, Well, lets face it, there is a good chance that templar already has everything. And beg is close to groveling, But not exactly...Beg is mostly talking and grovel would be emotes. And it is REALLY hard to kill somebody writhing in the dust at your feet kissing your boots.

I have seen some really good groveling in my time and all of them lived, even if they attacked my PC first.

And keep in mind, True, there are some PKs that are simply about the PK, but I think most the time, at least the people that do it often are more about the scene/story then the actual kill.

On a side note, to the OP, somebody mentioned that in the past on arm, the locked room newb murder or the hey Lets hunt together newb murder were considered rights of passage. Seems like you are progressing just fine, made it through and still playing...congrats.

My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

Quote from: X-D on November 18, 2012, 06:13:26 AM
I feel like I got some Kudos.

Dar has the right of it though. If you want to avoid death by one of my PCs AND many others, specially templars etc. Recognize the position you are in and act in a realistic fashion. (disclaimer, The upcoming does not work if I am playing an assassin, because if I am doing it right, you will not know till the mantis head) If you are in a situation where the aggresser PC SURELY has you outgunned Here are the key actions, All of which people have used on me in the past and avoided death, Some of them I have used. GROVEL, Beg, Bribe, FLATTER. Show fear for your life. Pcs that are all bravado in the face of certain death are assumed to simply not care if they die and are often not dissapointed.

I highlight Grovel and Flatter because I find they work best on truly high powered PCs, Bribing, Well, lets face it, there is a good chance that templar already has everything. And beg is close to groveling, But not exactly...Beg is mostly talking and grovel would be emotes. And it is REALLY hard to kill somebody writhing in the dust at your feet kissing your boots.

I have seen some really good groveling in my time and all of them lived, even if they attacked my PC first.

And keep in mind, True, there are some PKs that are simply about the PK, but I think most the time, at least the people that do it often are more about the scene/story then the actual kill.

On a side note, to the OP, somebody mentioned that in the past on arm, the locked room newb murder or the hey Lets hunt together newb murder were considered rights of passage. Seems like you are progressing just fine, made it through and still playing...congrats.

Will you please murder me?

Quote from: Akaramu on November 18, 2012, 06:36:11 AM
My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

I did exactly what you avoided doing, two different times. Two different templars. It was pretty obvious death was going to happen, and escape wasn't an option. So when they asked for consent for torture I said no, just get the killing done so I could log out for the night because it was late.

I wouldn't have consented for torture anyway, but I also didn't want a long drawn-out fade or ooc discussion about which limb I no longer possess due to the virtual torturing that happened without the RP. I just wanted to go to bed.

Quote from: Akaramu on November 18, 2012, 06:36:11 AM
My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

LOL.  Once, I bargained with a Red Fang so long that the guy I was guarding died of thirst.

Whenever I've been in a situation to kill somebody, I've always tried to make it more than a quick gank, and if possible, telegraphing reasons for it.

I hope others do the same to me.

-.0

Quote from: Akaramu on November 18, 2012, 06:36:11 AM
My most unpleasant death to date was spending some two hours begging, flattering, grovelling, making promises and doing everything that was asked at like, 4 AM in the morning when I should have logged hours ago. Only to be killed regardless, with everything that was said and done strongly indicating I had been picked completely at random. And had absolutely no way of identifying and reporting the killers, which they very well knew. The 4 AM part was the really bad part about it, really, I've no real complaint about the PCs involved. I was too scared of being killed if I OOCed asking them to speed things up a bit because I had to log, so I never asked.

But the one 'good' PK I experienced makes up for the unfun ones, which were unfun due to circumstances or because the person couldn't risk doing anything more than backstab Akaramu. Much <3 for Ghost, even after all these years.

Edit to add: Actually there was another decent PK. You guys do a good job with it, usually.

Very little killing in Armageddon PC to PC happens completely at random.

Right. But if that's the impression you are given -  :'(

Like Fathi said, sometimes the death isn't always expounded upon ala James Bond Villian Style.

Quote from: musashi on November 19, 2012, 04:08:44 AM
Like Fathi said, sometimes the death isn't always expounded upon ala James Bond Villian Style.

I'm aware. As described in my above posts  ;)

Quote from: musashi on November 19, 2012, 04:08:44 AM
Like Fathi said, sometimes the death isn't always expounded upon ala James Bond Villian Style.

I doubt folks are expecting that so much as if they think their PC was asking for it (knowingly pissing other PCs off, doing dangerous work, etc) vs. just suddenly finding a knife in their back.

Sometimes you die for no reason, though.  You can take every precaution, have all the right connections, bribe all the right people, and still get killed.

I'm not complaining about it, just stating a fact of Zalanthan life.  I've been on both sides of it.

the worst is when you bribe a guy, who turns around and has you killed anyways.

Quote from: evilcabbage on November 19, 2012, 09:32:26 AM
the worst is when you bribe a guy, who turns around and has you killed anyways.

Achievement unlocked:  MCB trifecta.

Quote from: evilcabbage on November 19, 2012, 09:32:26 AM
the worst is when you bribe a guy, who turns around and has you killed anyways.

I had a character whose boss warned him not to associate with another group because they were bad news.

Though my character died to a tembo, I later found out that this "other group" did in fact want to murder my PC ... because my boss had paid them to do so.

I fucking love Armageddon.

HAHAHA!  That's twisted.

I once had a character that died in a single prompt backstab. Straight to mantis head. I was told by my boss to go somewhere, and then I died.

Later I found out that there was some actual backstory to WHY I died. Similar to what Nyr said... I was just a footnote in a larger scheme. I'm still mad about it, but I'm more mad at the situation that arose making my character next in line to die, than the death itself.

Quote from: Synthesis on November 19, 2012, 09:38:29 AM

Quote from: evilcabbage on November 19, 2012, 09:32:26 AM
the worst is when you bribe a guy, who turns around and has you killed anyways.

Achievement unlocked:  MCB trifecta.

I laughed about this for like 10 minutes. There were tears.

People don't appreciate how difficult it is to pk in a locked room.

The risk of being locked in the apartment because the target is unaware of the shadower and just wants to log off totally prevented me from wanting to pk them many times. The race to type follow self before the potential victim would spam walk into their apartment and lock the door to log off is very exciting.

Being a murder victim is difficult, being a good murderer is even more difficult without many practices.

I always wish up prior to any pk scene if at all possible. That way staff can watch in on some of the stuff leading up to it and watch the murder scene itself. Also, to make things react more realistically...like having to worry about other ears,  if the other person comes up with some realistic way to escape that the code doesn't allow for, or cleaning up the mess afterward, etc. The ones I hate though is where you try to give the other person a chance to escape (on an OOC level) by having your pc make realistic mistakes they might make or whatever, and someone else jumps in and just kills them.

Shadowed some aide with some assassin like ... 4-5 years ago and got dragged into her apartment, where she promptly logged off. Didnt mean to kill her or anything, I dont even remember why I followed her. Anyway, I stuffed grass in her incense burner and simulated a fire, cried for help. Fire! Fire! Imms were awesome and had the slums lord come investigate, so I escaped :). That happened after ... 4-5 hours irl of just waiting for when she logs back in. I was ready to kill her THEN, just out of sheer frustration.

Was arrange around back then? If so, I hope everything was arranged to be charred and burned! I'm pretty sure there is actually an apartment IG that is all burned up in the room desc...maybe that's it! :p

.....

Was it that time you were actually Dar?

Made me summon half the militia and cry to templar and threaten half of my contacts?

I think sneak following someone into their apartment is kind of silly.
Makes no sense.  How are you sneaking past me when I am opening and closing a door?  I'll admit sometimes it's hard to use sneak/hide realistically because the code easily allows you to use it as if it is invisibility.  So the temptation to use it that way is there.

EDIT: I want to add that I am -sure- I have used it unrealistically before(I promptly forgot I did so of course).. so I'm not saying that if you used it this way you are terrible!

Quote from: kayza on November 20, 2012, 09:48:31 AM
I think sneak following someone into their apartment is kind of silly.
Makes no sense.  How are you sneaking past me when I am opening and closing a door?  I'll admit sometimes it's hard to use sneak/hide realistically because the code easily allows you to use it as if it is invisibility.  So the temptation to use it that way is there.

EDIT: I want to add that I am -sure- I have used it unrealistically before(I promptly forgot I did so of course).. so I'm not saying that if you used it this way you are terrible!

I see what you're saying but I don't think it's all that unrealistic.  In real life when you come home sometimes you open the door, step inside, put a couple bags down or undo a coat then close the door.  Or you're on the phone and a little distracted, that sort of thing.  You don't always slip inside and slam the door closed right away. 
In game though, most people unlock door, open door, close door, lock door so fast I'm surprised -they- have time to get inside :)

Speaking of keys and doors, I've always thought it would be interesting in game to have to 'get' your key from the door, after you lock or unlock it.  I'm sure that most people at some point have left their keys in the door, either when coming home or going out, it would be sort of interesting to have that happen in game too. 

I dont know I think its way to easy to follow someone into an apartment.  :P

Who's to say you don't ambush them as soon as they step in the door?

I do too think it's pretty easy, despite using the method far too often. Thing is ... there are numerous ways that a capable thief/infiltrator/spy/elf should be capable of getting into a place. Sometimes, it deserves a small rpt and Imm attention, and sometimes ... it doesnt. Personally, in my opinion? Sneak/hide kind of sums all of those various methods up.

The negative side of this is the fact that if you need to shadow someone inside, then ... you're not able to leave when you want to. Every time you do this, you're risking death and ruination of all your plans. Backstabbing someone in a tavern is less risky then shadowing someone inside a locked area. So it kind of balances out.


I've had an instance when I was waiting in a person's apartment, very visible, and scary. The victim would go in and close/relock door and only 'then' realize that I am standing there. Then there's a short moment, and the person unlock/open/ and ran off. It was kind of funny.

I've had fun a few times acting scared shitless by a hidden person suddenly showing themselves. They've never killed me, which I appreciate.

On the flip side of all this...

Fewer things in Arm are more satisfying.. Than to have spent an obscene amount of time tracking someones movements, getting info, setting up a kill spot and then giving them a scene b4 your PC spears them (or stabs or shoots, etc).

Quote from: Dakota on November 20, 2012, 06:02:35 PM
On the flip side of all this...

Fewer things in Arm are more satisfying.. Than to have spent an obscene amount of time tracking someones movements, getting info, setting up a kill spot and then giving them a scene b4 your PC spears them (or stabs or shoots, etc).

... Only to have them cast 'mon un element superuber deathspell' you.

Quote from: evilcabbage on November 21, 2012, 01:37:57 AM

Quote from: Dakota on November 20, 2012, 06:02:35 PM
On the flip side of all this...

Fewer things in Arm are more satisfying.. Than to have spent an obscene amount of time tracking someones movements, getting info, setting up a kill spot and then giving them a scene b4 your PC spears them (or stabs or shoots, etc).

... Only to have them cast 'mon un element superuber deathspell' you.

Or, more annoying, finding out that PC refuses to enter that room for some reason, even if they've been there a million times before, just because "Something seems odd". JUST WALK INTO YOUR DEATH.

Whats the quote? "No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."

Quote from: Riev on November 21, 2012, 01:50:45 AM

Quote from: evilcabbage on November 21, 2012, 01:37:57 AM

Quote from: Dakota on November 20, 2012, 06:02:35 PM
On the flip side of all this...

Fewer things in Arm are more satisfying.. Than to have spent an obscene amount of time tracking someones movements, getting info, setting up a kill spot and then giving them a scene b4 your PC spears them (or stabs or shoots, etc).

... Only to have them cast 'mon un element superuber deathspell' you.

Or, more annoying, finding out that PC refuses to enter that room for some reason, even if they've been there a million times before, just because "Something seems odd". JUST WALK INTO YOUR DEATH.

Yeah thats pretty lousy. I have a few stories but they're all IC, though I've been lucky and have almost always got my mark...

The other problem is after you finally PK someone that hoards of time, RP, plotting, etc have gone into... About a day after the deed is done, you'll see a post on the GDB by a guy going: "So long Arm! I'm quitting."

I feel pretty bad about it when it results to that. Or maybe it was coincidence.

I only feel bad when I see someone post on forum about getting twink killed after I done murder.

Can you ever imagine the pain when the victim and murderer's players are both casual, and one is peak and the other is off peak?

I like the idea of giving the other pc a fun death scene, but after hours of waiting for that pc to log on (before I have to log off), the only thing I want to do is to finish that pk in the shortest possible time and then go to bed. I can rp the entire aftermath of the pk the next day.

I only give out long death scenes if I want to give the pc a chance to survive. Otherwise, what's the point? I don't enjoy getting a dragged out death scene (unless I get to hear juicy gossips), so I don't give it either (unless I wanna share juicy gossips).

Quote from: Flawed on November 21, 2012, 04:17:17 PM
I only feel bad when I see someone post on forum about getting twink killed after I done murder.

Can you ever imagine the pain when the victim and murderer's players are both casual, and one is peak and the other is off peak?

I like the idea of giving the other pc a fun death scene, but after hours of waiting for that pc to log on (before I have to log off), the only thing I want to do is to finish that pk in the shortest possible time and then go to bed. I can rp the entire aftermath of the pk the next day.

I only give out long death scenes if I want to give the pc a chance to survive. Otherwise, what's the point? I don't enjoy getting a dragged out death scene (unless I get to hear juicy gossips), so I don't give it either (unless I wanna share juicy gossips).

I think your signature says it all, here.

.. Or mine. Huh.

Quote from: Flawed on November 21, 2012, 04:17:17 PM
I only give out long death scenes if I want to give the pc a chance to survive. Otherwise, what's the point? I don't enjoy getting a dragged out death scene (unless I get to hear juicy gossips), so I don't give it either (unless I wanna share juicy gossips).

The point is showmanship.  For your own sake.

I want players to feel fine with going n;kill kayza

As the fear of that happening is great fun.

Since I have been murdered several times, I'm fairly good at getting over it quickly. But, you can be damned sure, I will make the murderer work -hard- to get me. I won't go down easily, and I sure won't fall for the same tricks again. If you -can- get me though, hats off to you. But it won't be easy.

Quote from: Scarecrow on November 22, 2012, 08:50:23 PM
Since I have been murdered several times, I'm fairly good at getting over it quickly. But, you can be damned sure, I will make the murderer work -hard- to get me. I won't go down easily, and I sure won't fall for the same tricks again. If you -can- get me though, hats off to you. But it won't be easy.

yo wanna get drunk til we both pass out in my apartment? promise i won't knife you.

Still, yeah... I don't often fall for the same tricks twice, it's "similar" tricks that seem to get me, mixed with naivete and trust of the pbase that is slowly, slowly, diminishing.

My advice? Think about it in terms of your character, not OOC tricks.

If your character trusts them, trust them. If they don't, don't. That said, trust should be very hard-won in Zalanthas.

Hey Delirium ... you wanna play kruth in my apartment room?

Quote from: evilcabbage on November 26, 2012, 04:24:56 PM
Still, yeah... I don't often fall for the same tricks twice, it's "similar" tricks that seem to get me, mixed with naivete and trust of the pbase that is slowly, slowly, diminishing.

What exactly have you been trusting the player base to do, and how have they failed you in this regard?

I read that as a more friendly and loving ... I'm slowly learning how vicious and two faced you fuckers are.  :)

musashi hit it right on the head, Nyr, I trust the playerbase to be awesome and I trust their motivations, I'm just finding it harder to trust them icly in some situations.

especially with a couple of recent events that happened that I'm fairly sure Nyr is aware of, there are certain PCs in game that I'm leery of.

also, I have the straaaaangest luck sometimes...

but yes, you two faced, backstabbing motherfuckers won't get me again. mob #2957239(ankheg v-num 00000001.96) here I come! I'd rather die to an Ankheg or something right now than suffer ANOTHER PC-to-PC death. It's heartbreaking.

Quote from: evilcabbage on November 26, 2012, 05:45:14 PM
I'd rather die to an Ankheg or something right now than suffer ANOTHER PC-to-PC death. It's heartbreaking.

But NPC monsters never lay out their plan before killing you. It is like they read the Evil Overlord List.

The few deaths I have to PK are generally more satisfying than dying in some other stupid way. The twink PK deaths of course are annoying.

I've been PKed... twice, I think, since I started playing. Neither of them turned out to be an epic RP piece or anything, but I think both were appropriate ends to the character's lives.

As someone who has been assassinated more times then I care to count. (I play a hell of an Aide, aparently) And have sent assassins to kill plenty of people, and has been a raider twice now. I have this to say.


If it's a master assassin, there is a good reason behind it. Trust me. Even finding a Master Assassin can be hard to do. You don't get to be a master of that by everyone knowing you do it.
Seriusly though, assassins generally kill for a better reason then "I want your apartment, lawl"

My raiders will kill you,but I try my hardest to give rp, unless the fight is forced before.


But in ALL cases. You have to tell the staff you killed someone, at ALL times, and why. Even if you are a Leader pc, wanting to kill a dipshit recruit that's causing you so many problems you want to rage quit. You always have to tell the Imms you are hiring an assassin, planning a pk, or have pked someone.


Our staff are just really good at keeping things behind the scenes to keep you damned scared and paranoid.

I've pk'd and been pk'd and alot of it was fun, some of it not so much.

The two that went on for a while was really fun, and I enjoyed it immensely.

Another I walked into blatantly knowing what was going to happen, and that one wasn't so much fun. Do to by time I went to post the post no longer fit the situation/room/conversation. Though I was over it in a day of playing another pc.

Quote from: Clavis on January 01, 2013, 03:22:46 AM
I've pk'd and been pk'd and alot of it was fun, some of it not so much.

The two that went on for a while was really fun, and I enjoyed it immensely.

Another I walked into blatantly knowing what was going to happen, and that one wasn't so much fun. Do to by time I went to post the post no longer fit the situation/room/conversation. Though I was over it in a day of playing another pc.

I've walked into a few known assassinations. Most were fun, but I always find myself thinking " Man I should have done x"

I've also walked into, and survived a few. All on one pc. When that specific Aide was assasinated, he knew he was walking into it, and made sure to tell a guard what was happenening, and then just let it happen, so his lord could do what needed to be done to secure more influence. Yeah, totally martyred himself.

34 characters
6 PK'd (1 was a mercy kill)
8 stored (including 4 in a row)
3 killed by gith (including the mercy kill)
4 spiders
2 on rpt

14 characters (not sure if it kept records earlier than 2006 - think I may have had a PC or two in 2004)
5 suicides* (from the year 2006-2009)
1 mekillot (2010)
1 rantarri (2006)
1 PK (2010)
5 stored (2009-2012)
1 current (2012)

* Taken to mean losing interest in a <1 day character after 4-5 months of inactivity, and walking them into the wilds until they were eaten by a mob, or fell down a hole.

Quote from: Morrolan on January 01, 2013, 05:28:49 AM
34 characters
6 PK'd (1 was a mercy kill)
8 stored (including 4 in a row)
3 killed by gith (including the mercy kill)
4 spiders
2 on rpt

And the other eleven?

My memory is shit when it comes to stuff like this but I think I've only been PK'd once. By a Templar in the north with staff present and I just drank poison.

I die to wilderness mobs like a boss.

I've only had one character murdered in 12 years, and it was a misunderstanding by some half-giant in the Barrel back in 2003.

I still have never been murdered.

Not counting the ones I play for less than a month before I realize the concept was either boring or too ambitious, the first half of my PCs were largely killed by player stupidity and the second half were largely stored.

Holy shit I've had my characters murdered a lot.

Quote from: Is Friday on January 01, 2013, 11:25:18 AM
Holy shit I've had my characters murdered a lot.

If I recall, a few of those were to me.... LOL.

Playing to win is for sore losers.

I've been PKed by musashi, without intention and completely by accident.

Note: Do not follow musashi PCs.  :D

Purpose of thread: served
Hinting sarcastically or jokingly at who killed who, even if untrue or funny: not necessary.