I'm sure this has been brought up before, but it may have been a while since it's been discussed and perhaps could use re-discussion. Or in my case... discussion.
What's up the the message everyone sees in the room when another person scans? It doesn't make much sense. If they're intently scanning the room then that is what they're doing at that particular moment. But all they're really doing, in a coded sense, is essentially turning scan on. They're not constantly scanning the room, or else an ldesc or similar function should inform us of this. There used to be a message the room would receive when people would listen, but that was eventually done away with, presumably due to the rediculousness of the situation. In fact I think the room echo said the person was crouching down and carefully trying to listen. There's no action the room should see if you're simply trying to pay more attention with your ears. Why then should we receive one for scan? The current scan message would make sense if scan only lasted for a moment. Because in that case you really are intently scanning the area. But I'd rather not know people scan the room now. OOCly it hints at what guild they most likely are, but on an IC level it doesn't do anything at all. It's merely a byproduct of an older Diku era in Arm, IMO.
Thoughts?
Agreed.
I think so too, although if you wanna do what makes sense, there should be a hemote-type message (to perceptive people) as well as people who take a look at you while scan is on. I think you should be able to tell (sometimes) if people are observing their surroundings regularly and with scrutiny.
I don't think you can append an emote to it. So, yeah, I don't really care for it echoing. If knowing someone is scanning is something important for reasons, seems like it would make more sense to put it on a watch or extended assess rather than just at the start of the scanning bit.
Quote from: Suhuy on October 23, 2012, 03:44:57 PM
Thoughts?
I feel that now that hemote has been added, that code should be hijacked for a number of commands.
- look <target> (no command emotes)
You notice: The tall, muscular man looks at the blond ragamuffin. - scan (or move to something visible on assess)
You notice: The tall, muscular man looks around intently. - watch (direction)
You notice: The tall, muscular man stares off to the east. - barrier (barrier or a hidden skill contested vs. watch)
You notice: The tall, muscular man pauses for a moment and his eyes lose focus. - contact (contact or a hidden skill contested vs. watch)
You notice: The tall, muscular man pauses for a moment and his eyes lose focus. - talk (at a table, etc., if "listen" does not kick in)
- sip
- taste
Those are really good ideas, Morrolan. I only don't like the one about scanning. And here's why.
When you scan, the skill stays "on". So this means you are not actually standing there, swerving your head from side to side as you scrutinize everything around you. You're simply deciding to be more visually alert about your surroundings for a while.
If scan is truly meant to be like the situation above (head swerving analysis of the entire visible world around you) then it shouldn't be a turn on/turn off skill at all and instead should last but a moment. If, however, it's meant to be a more casual awareness then I'd rather not see any echo applied to scan - even a hidden one.
Scan, like watch, should show up in verbose assess, or have a chance to be noticed at 'turn on' via a hemote, to the watchful.
Quote from: Morrolan on October 23, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: Suhuy on October 23, 2012, 03:44:57 PM
Thoughts?
I feel that now that hemote has been added, that code should be hijacked for a number of commands.
- look <target> (no command emotes)
You notice: The tall, muscular man looks at the blond ragamuffin. - scan (or move to something visible on assess)
You notice: The tall, muscular man looks around intently. - watch (direction)
You notice: The tall, muscular man stares off to the east. - barrier (barrier or a hidden skill contested vs. watch)
You notice: The tall, muscular man pauses for a moment and his eyes lose focus. - contact (contact or a hidden skill contested vs. watch)
You notice: The tall, muscular man pauses for a moment and his eyes lose focus. - talk (at a table, etc., if "listen" does not kick in)
- sip
- taste
I agree wholeheartedly. Sometimes less is more.
Quote from: Rhyden on October 23, 2012, 05:49:25 PM
Quote from: Morrolan on October 23, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: Suhuy on October 23, 2012, 03:44:57 PM
Thoughts?
I feel that now that hemote has been added, that code should be hijacked for a number of commands.
- look <target> (no command emotes)
You notice: The tall, muscular man looks at the blond ragamuffin. - scan (or move to something visible on assess)
You notice: The tall, muscular man looks around intently. - watch (direction)
You notice: The tall, muscular man stares off to the east. - barrier (barrier or a hidden skill contested vs. watch)
You notice: The tall, muscular man pauses for a moment and his eyes lose focus. - contact (contact or a hidden skill contested vs. watch)
You notice: The tall, muscular man pauses for a moment and his eyes lose focus. - talk (at a table, etc., if "listen" does not kick in)
- sip
- taste
I agree wholeheartedly. Sometimes less is more.
Yessss.
I agree with morrolan on all points, except I think Talk, Sip and Taste are fine as they are.
Up until recently I didn't actually realize that scan was an on/off type thing. I thought that if you used it, you only had a chance of spotting something at that moment...because of the echo.
::)
I'd like to see scan and look (without command emotes) become hemotes, but I like the others on Morrolan's list as-is.
I do like being able to use command emotes with look in some situations, like inspecting the troops or leering at a pretty person, but the look spam when somebody walks into the room can be mildly jarring. Hemote would help with that.
And I wholeheartedly agree that the scan echo is not consistent with how it actually works. I think detecting scan should be similar to detecting watch.
Quote from: BadSkeelz on October 23, 2012, 06:18:05 PM
I agree with morrolan on all points, except I think Talk, Sip and Taste are fine as they are.
I like the idea of talk being a hemote because it helps add spatial relevance. If you're at the bar you're probably not gonna notice the animated conversation going on unless you're specifically watching somebody at the table.
Quote from: Delirium on October 23, 2012, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: BadSkeelz on October 23, 2012, 06:18:05 PM
I agree with morrolan on all points, except I think Talk, Sip and Taste are fine as they are.
I like the idea of talk being a hemote because it helps add spatial relevance. If you're at the bar you're probably not gonna notice the animated conversation going on unless you're specifically watching somebody at the table.
Also, it would totally help to reduce line-clutter during large tavern scenes and such, where you have a bunch of groups at separate tables or something.
I wish scan did not echo. I frequently try to turn scan on before going into PC populated areas if I want to use it, because I don't care for the silly echo.
Yup. Scanning should really be a somewhat stealthy activity. More than a room echo, I would suggest something that shows up on their temporary description.
Someone intently scans the area
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
"Did you just hear someone looking?"
:/ Having scan on all the time forever is just as bad. Shaming people out of it with the echo is fun.
I don't really think that surveying your surroundings enough to pick out a master hide player is going to be that covert but making the initiation a Hemote would kind of be acceptable as long as you can spot scanners in the same way you can spot watchers. There's a difference to being perceptive and constantly keeping detailed track on your surroundings.
Also, BCW, having scan on all the time is pretty lame, yeah.
Where as having listen and watch on all the time is the epoch of great RP amirite? :D
No, but marking other bad roleplaying qualities isn't a great debate method.
An observant or paranoid person doesn't stop being on edge. Scan peepoles!
Quote from: bcw81 on October 24, 2012, 09:11:51 AM
No, but marking other bad roleplaying qualities isn't a great debate method.
Who's trying to debate with you?
I reject the premise that scanning "all the time" is bad. Just depends on the kind of character you're playing. Some people are on edge in taverns and have ample grounds to use their skillset there. Guards come to mind.
Likewise, I reject "shaming people out out of it when they echo" as legit justification for having the command echo.
If it didn't echo I'd probably spend more time with scan off, ironically. If I'm in a tavern and I have it on, I'd like to be able to switch to watching the person I'm talking to, then switch back to scanning the room at large when the conversaiton wraps up, but meh, at the moment I just leave scan on because I'd rather not constantly spam the room with that transition.
I really tend to ignore it when others use scan.
Because honestly if you don't, I feel strange constantly commenting on it if someone is using the skill a lot.
OOC I know they are trying to do something code wise and responding in this manner is bad, IC - they are just looking at those around them a lot, not that rare in a place where you might get mugged and killed in the streets.
Truthfully I like it as is..
For OOC fun reasons of when you play a sneaky type!
Most people respond or react to canned echo's in extremely retarded fashion, so yes please.
You don't have to take every echo literally people.
I would be fine with the scan echo going away.
Just let people emote it if they want or allow a command emote.
As to scanning all the time...Somebody already said, paranoid people are always on edge.
IRL, I don't consider myself paranoid, but I do have certain habits that would make one think so. When entering a public place I check exits, then I get seated with back to wall in a spot where I can see all of the exits, I look around constantly, keeping tabs on what everybody is doing and where they are, but I am very good at doing so without craning my neck and shit...and anybody that is a master of perception would have the same skills.
Old habits from a misspent youth and a dislike of surprises.
Still, it is unlikely you would notice these habits which are pretty much like having scan on all the time. It took my wife 5 years to notice.
So, Actually, what would be perfect is, with scan, if as you mastered the skill, the scan echo moved into hemote then at top end, assuming that class gets the skill to mastery, no echo at all.
If your char is really that paranoid, hemote that, in combination with scan.
Quote from: Iiyola on October 25, 2012, 12:56:45 AM
If your char is really that paranoid, hemote that, in combination with scan.
That's not paranoia.
I'm sure we would all have no problem ignoring the scan echo is obsessive scanners never make a scene over people for being 'in the shadows' in taverns and other public places. ;)
QuoteQuote from: Iiyola on October 24, 2012, 08:56:45 PM
If your char is really that paranoid, hemote that, in combination with scan.
That's not paranoia.
Not to mention, it is not even the point of the thread.
Point being, There is really no reason to echo, and you can't command emote/semote/hemote with it.
Quote from: hyzhenhok on October 25, 2012, 02:59:14 AM
I'm sure we would all have no problem ignoring the scan echo is obsessive scanners never make a scene over people for being 'in the shadows' in taverns and other public places. ;)
Sadly, the fact that the look command also echos when you do it to a PC pretty much pooches the chances of that happening. Even if the scanner doesn't react to it, the moment everyone else sees the tall muscular man look at someone ... oh it's so over.
Yeah it's a bit of a conundrum really. You should be able to stand in the shadows, away from folks and just kind of, keep yourself to yourself and be discrete...people shouldn't make a scene over that, it doesn't make sense. Maybe just keeping an eye on them and thinking to themselves that the person looks sketchy...
But the problem is that people can also 'be in the shadows' and be close enough to rob you blind...and if someone was that close to you but also trying to be all discrete and hidden then you probably would be super suspicious and make a bit of a scene. Maybe a split in the hide skills, one that implies a distance (therefore you can't do stuff like steal, backstab whatever) and one that...doesn't. I don't know. I don't even know if those actions break hide so...
Quote from: Maso on October 25, 2012, 02:56:20 PM
Yeah it's a bit of a conundrum really. You should be able to stand in the shadows, away from folks and just kind of, keep yourself to yourself and be discrete...people shouldn't make a scene over that, it doesn't make sense. Maybe just keeping an eye on them and thinking to themselves that the person looks sketchy...
But the problem is that people can also 'be in the shadows' and be close enough to rob you blind...and if someone was that close to you but also trying to be all discrete and hidden then you probably would be super suspicious and make a bit of a scene. Maybe a split in the hide skills, one that implies a distance (therefore you can't do stuff like steal, backstab whatever) and one that...doesn't. I don't know. I don't even know if those actions break hide so...
Well, that's why we have hemotes and semotes. If they see you, hemote you're standing in the corner away from that bar. Just my two cents, but I guess that's a silly thing, again.
I'm leaning towards favoring shifts where...
> scan worked like watch (you notice the tall, muscular man is keeping a close eye on his surroundings)
> you could look at someone in a way that only echoed to the person you're looking at
If you find a way to balance out scan and hide commands where everyone is happy....
You should then try your hand at global peace talks.
I think it's impossible to make it where it doesn't seem to favor one side.