Armageddon General Discussion Board

I think a strong argument could be made for a proportional change ... and perhaps this question could be asked & extend to all character affecting effects?

That argument would be what exactly?

I can think of arguments for both ways, but why change what isn't broken?

If there was only a 2% increase on someone with 100 stamina, they would end up with 102 points afterward.  I imagine this would lead to a lot more resting, and travel taking a lot longer.  It may be better for rp that way, but for playability, probably not.

I think it is fine the way it is.

I don't know if the effect is percentile or fixed at the moment, but it seems to work fine.

I think a percentage increases would favor desert elves unfairly because they already get a bonus to movement points and a reduction in movement costs.

I don't really know about that. It doesn't seem like it'd favor them enough to unbalance them. Desert elves are supposed to be hardcore as is; being slightly more hardcore wouldn't really upset any balance.

You guys really need to drop the "balance" shenanigans. This isn't a  competitive game. There is no balance, other then everyone's character dies eventualy.

Balance is on a spectrum. Arm isn't intended to be on either end of that spectrum, so attempts to provide some degree of balance shouldn't be poopooed instantly.

I actually like the idea of making endurance a slightly shinier stat, but at the same time I don't think it would be worth much effort on the parts of the coders. If they could do it without much hassle I'd throw in on it, elsewise, the difference isn't enough.

Quote from: Narf on October 10, 2012, 11:10:04 PM
Balance is on a spectrum. Arm isn't intended to be on either end of that spectrum, so attempts to provide some degree of balance shouldn't be poopooed instantly.

I actually like the idea of making endurance a slightly shinier stat, but at the same time I don't think it would be worth much effort on the parts of the coders. If they could do it without much hassle I'd throw in on it, elsewise, the difference isn't enough.

I truely love how your avitar seems to be acting out precisely what you're saying.

That being said I think there's too much going on in the world for the immortals to start recoding some of the most primary codes in the game.  I think they might have made too many other aspects of the game tweek according to these fundamentals and it would be more headache than praise in the end.

I'm not understanding the issue (is it an actual issue, or a perceived issue, or just a random suggestion tossed on the GDB without any issue at all?).

Equipment currently effects movement points by encumbrance. If you're weighed down, you'll get tired more faster, than if you're not weighed down. Seems perfectly logical, pragmatic, and acceptable to me.

Certain things can also have an affect on that encumbrance, but what those things are, are IC things. In a world of make-believe, I find these things also perfectly logical, pragmatic, and acceptable.

If there is a perceived issue that someone is having a hard time carrying stuff, OR moving without getting tired, I suggest:
1. get rid of some of the stuff
2. exchange some of the heavier equipment for some lighter-weight equipment
3. discover and make use of some of the "encumbrance-lowering" IC things.

It would appear he's talking about, say, boots that offer 10 stamina, taking you from 130 to 140 when putting them on, instead bringing you to 143 because that would be 10% stamina instead of 10 stamina points added.

That said: I think leave it the way it is. There are several reasons why. One of them is pointless workload for a barely notable gain that doesn't add a whole lot to the game, imo.

A better effort might be bringing the bonuses into line with one another.  There are boots that give +5 mv.  Boots that give +15mv.  Sleeves that give +2mv and sleeves that give +10mv.  Hats that give +1 and hats that give +10 etc etc etc.

There are sandcloth leggings that give +5, sandcloth leggings that give +8 and sandcloth leggings that give +0.  It's all over the place and does quite a bit to ensure that certain items get used a lot and others never get used at all.

A better change would be REMOVING ALL NON-MAGIKAL STAT BONUSES.

Replace the bonuses with negatives only.  Example:  Heavy cloaks get -movement.  Armor gets -movement.  unwieldy items get -movement.

No more trying to squeeze in an extra 3 wraps or 5 bandanas to gain movement.  The only issues then would be cost, social class, encumbrance and material.  The look and 'feel' of an item will be the determining factor, not some arbitrary bonuses.

MADE UP EXAMPLE OF WHY THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS BROKEN:

I have a pair of awesome boots.  Soooooooo cool.  Great description.  They claim to be SOOOOOOO comfortable.  Well made.  Just awesome boots!  They give less than half of the bonus another pair of boots.  Less than half as good in tangable effects even if the descriptions would have you believe otherwise.  That's so funky but hard to argue with results.  I can run further, walk farther, cut more wood, forage more rocks and try to disarm more times with the higher bonuses.

I like it how it is.

More movement just delays the inevitable.

Equipment that affects anything else is going to affect it the way that the code does it already; how it is done does not really affect the game one way or another.  However, staff have certain standards for building items already in place.  Should you find an issue with a particular item, please bug or typo the item.

I'm not sure why this is being asked, though.  Is there some issue that raised this question?  Is something broken?

Some items are used far more often than others, simply because they give that sweet sweet stamina boost you're looking for.  If I understand it correctly, the OP was offering an idea to change the arbitrary stat boost in favor of a percent boost across the board for each article of clothing.

While I'm not really in favor of changing things up that much, I could see how it would make things a bit more realistic.  Players then wouldn't be all wearing camouflage gear, or the same cloak, or the same boots. 

edit: I kind of agree with Nyr.  If it ain't broke, why try to fix it?

The only arguement I have seen in this thread with any merit at all (in my opinion) that would justify any sort of staff intervention or change is that some items with decriptions detailing how comfortable/awesome they are do not give proper boosts to reflect their descriptions.

That isn't a universal problem. That is a item specific problem.

Please submit a request/bug/typo on that item since either its coding or its description appear to be incorrect.

Quote from: Desertman on October 11, 2012, 10:57:41 AM
I like it how it is.

Quote from: Desertman on October 11, 2012, 11:31:05 AM
The only arguement I have seen in this thread with any merit at all (in my opinion) that would justify any sort of staff intervention or change is that some items with decriptions detailing how comfortable/awesome they are do not give proper boosts to reflect their descriptions.

That isn't a universal problem. That is a item specific problem.

Please submit a request/bug/typo on that item since either its coding or its description appear to be incorrect.

Agree with this also. There are many items that would lead one to believe they would also provide a coded benefit as other similar items do but provide none that you can see.

It really sounds like someone should go back to playing world of warcraft and leave imo a perfect game alone. Arm is the way it is because that's the way it was made to be played.

[expansion]

The little OCD part of me would love to see a rationalization of weapon attributes, with effectiveness and weight based on a series of attributes: attack type (slashing, piercing, etc.), material (bone, wood, obsidian, flint, etc.), weight, length (increases attack or defense or possibly both based on weapon type), and quality.

Sure, it gets complicated with weapons made of different materials, but as long as it is a guideline for staff use, rather than an automated system, that should be fine.

[/expansion]

On the topic of move pts, again, I would like to see some kind of standardization. I assume that this might, just maybe, be on the table after all the DB things are implemented.

I think it should stay the way it is. A percentage boost to stats would be minimal at best, and would make it not worth wearing certain items at all. If I get a 1% boost from an item, and a 10% boost, and those items previously were 1 mv and 10 mv boost? I'm STILL going to use the 10% item.

All you're doing is proposing a system that will make it more complicated for coders to set certain things up, and it really does absolutely nothing to improve our game experience, at all, not to mention it might -break- the game for certain people who rely very heavily on those movement bonuses.

I vote nay.

Quote from: Morrolan on October 11, 2012, 04:26:30 PM
[expansion]
The little OCD part of me^* would love to see a rationalization of weapon attributes, with effectiveness and weight based on a series of attributes: attack type (slashing, piercing, etc.), material (bone, wood, obsidian, flint, etc.), weight, length (increases attack or defense or possibly both based on weapon type), and quality.

Sure, it gets complicated with weapons made of different materials, but as long as it is a guideline for staff use, rather than an automated system, that should be fine.

[/expansion]

On the topic of move pts, again, I would like to see some kind of standardization. I assume that this might, just maybe, be on the table after all the DB things are implemented.

For what it's worth, we have a page dedicated to descriptions for weapons (the difference between what should be called a knife, dagger, or dirk).  We also have a page dedicated to values for weapons that takes into account everything you've mentioned.  I don't know if the assumption is that these values all come from the butthole of Satan himself, but there are tables out there.  :)  Any serious problems with an individual item should be typoed/bugged.

Any changes made to things on a larger scale like you suggest in your expansion will be left in the hands of staff, and likely never revealed to players in any fashion more than "we changed things to make them better."

Quote from: MeTekillot on October 10, 2012, 08:29:44 PM
I don't really know about that. It doesn't seem like it'd favor them enough to unbalance them. Desert elves are supposed to be hardcore as is; being slightly more hardcore wouldn't really upset any balance.

d-elf stamina has been nerfed a couple of times, so I doubt the staff are interested in giving them any kind of stamina buff.

Also, it would take an extremely obsessive-compulsive sort of staffer to go through the entire clothing database to make sure every item was within whatever new guidelines are being proposed.