I've had some instances where I've been in a lawless place, either out in the wild or otherwise, and I'm "watch"ing the most common entry point to my location.
Then I see one of the following:
- A PC moves in a straight line to my location, stops one room before me, draws their weapons and then moves into the room I'm in.
- A group of 2 or 3 mounted PCs move in a straight line to my location, stop one room before me, draw their weapons and then move into the room I'm in.
- A PC moves into the room I'm in and without a word/emote/action draws their weapons.
- A PC moves in a straight line to my location, "shout"s telling me to stay where I am, then draws their weapon and moves into the room I'm in.
My character, like most in Zalanthas, places survival above all else. I find myself running into situations like this ALL the time. You have 3 options. Draw your weapons and prepare to fight, stick around and wait in the unlikely event they just want to "talk", or run.
I'm new to the game and my character is fairly new. As such, I usually choose option 3: Run.
Here's a good real world comparison. You're walking down an empty street in a bad neighborhood in the middle of the night. Suddenly you see a stranger across the street. He pulls out a knife and starts walking towards you.
Do you really stick around and see if he wants to talk?What are your opinions on these types of situations? As I prioritize my survival, I don't take chances when people draw weapons and approach me when I'm all alone out in the desert.
Is this bad RP? Am I really expected to stick around and see if these strangers brandishing weapons and heading straight for me want to talk?How do you guys handle these types of situations?
No it's not bad RP if it's something your character would do.
In these sorts of situations I always stick around though. Because they are either awesome scenes about to happen, or boring scenes. Very few times have they turned into someone insta-raping you before you can draw a weapon. If you play along you probably aren't going to die. Unless if you're doing something you shouldn't be.
I always freeze, because if they're in the room with me, I assume that means they are close enough to initiate violence upon my person. And if someone is confident enough, or bluffing that they're confident enough, to tell you to freeze, it can be assumed that they'll whomp you pretty hard in the event that you try to resist. Think of it like you deciding that running away from that mugger when he's about a step away from you, and instead of a pen-knife he has a 3 foot long sword and he can cleave you in two with a couple of good swings of it.
Also, there's always having to account for roleplay. This might be one of their only scarce opportunities to roleplay. About 85% of the time, when a raided PC goes along with their raider's wishes and doesn't do twink stuff (running off without an emote, looking at them, contacting their friends to come help them, getting buck and thinking they're tough shit), then it's a pretty good indication that you're going to survive. And a lot of the time, the raiders will leave you with enough to at least not die on the way back to civilization.
I depends on my character. Some may stay some may bolt. I think it's kind of weak to make all of your characters either one way or the other. It should depend on the character.
Hrmm... maybe I'll start sticking around during some of these situations. But to be honest, with my current character if there are 3+ people drawing weapons and approaching he would not stick around. :-[
I'll take a try at sticking around if it's just one character approaching to see how it pans out... I never really thought about it until now, but those single PCs drawing a weapon and approaching me are probably just as concerned about me as I am them, hence drawing a weapon to protect themselves in case shit goes south...
???
Quote from: Creslin on June 21, 2012, 06:35:54 PM
I never really thought about it until now, but those single PCs drawing a weapon and approaching me are probably just as concerned about me as I am them, hence drawing a weapon to protect themselves in case shit goes south...
Yep.
Why aren't their weapons already drawn if they're in a lawless area? Newbs.
Quote from: Majikal on June 21, 2012, 07:34:45 PM
Why aren't their weapons already drawn if they're in a lawless area? Newbs.
Could be badasses.
"hey that guy doesn't have his weapons out he MUST be a magicker."
>:(
On a more serious note, avoiding people is totally fine, as long as it's in line with your PC concept.
Quote from: Majikal on June 21, 2012, 07:34:45 PM
Why aren't their weapons already drawn if they're in a lawless area? Newbs.
I'm going to admit, this was something that I thought while reading the op.
I think that not sticking around if my character wouldn't is perfectly valid RP.
No one wants to die...Unless they personally know your character, and KNOW they can kill, beat, rob etc etc...Then there bringing there weapons out anyways due to self preservation..They don't know you , you don't know them..I would think weapons would be drawn on both sides.
Dislike it when people flee when my characters approach because it's great to RP with folks and there is a lot of fun tension in not knowing what comes next.
That said - some of my characters avoid others, some don't.
Rarely have I been nailed for hanging out and waiting. Once they see you are up for some RP, they give it to you. Even if they rob you after.
Depends how tall they are ...
... what your character would do ...
... and how much fun you want to have.
Most people will get their weapons out for self-defense regardless of intent. However not everyone is good enough to have them drawn everywhere they go, or they might need their hands for other things. ;)
If you want to cut and run from a PC I'd advise taking off before they reach your room, or making sure to interaction out the taking off - once they reach your room they might be setting up an emote/talk/etc and get a bit more irritated at someone immediately scampering. Still probably better than waiting 4 seconds then taking off. Just musing on it.
Why are we assuming all the PCs that are finding him out in the middle of nowhere (or wherever) are raiders? The OP likely hasn't realized that visible regalia/clothing/livery might make a difference... Though there is still the question of why people have to draw weapons if they're already out in a dangerous area... I know my hunter/byn pcs always had weapon(s)/shield out when they were riding outside a city. Usually we would announce our presence before coming upon another group with a shout, but sometimes not, as we rode through....
Quote from: Creslin on June 21, 2012, 06:35:54 PM
Hrmm... maybe I'll start sticking around during some of these situations. But to be honest, with my current character if there are 3+ people drawing weapons and approaching he would not stick around. :-[
I had some interesting interactions last night. Now that I'm making an effort to stick around more often than not I'm getting some more RP opportunities... ;)
Even with PC's I've played in the past that are more aggressor oppurtunists, I've -always- roleplayed out before taking any action. If they ran...well, then they got the heavy end of my whompin' stick....if they stayed. I'd pick something shiny and say "Here's your choice, that or the hard way?"
On the other side of it, if I have a PC who isn't able to handle himself in the wastes. I generally do not just hang around areas of heavy traffic or places where rumors have been heard that raiders are present. If I have a chance to book it without them seeing me book it, I will. Otherwise they very well could just track your ass down and make your life hell.
*Being in a House or a specific peaceful unit I will announce who I am and also say, "Just passin' through!" if its a wide open room or "Coming in!" if it's a cave or building.
For me to seems more to be a decision of the atmosphere produced when the two are aware of each other. I usually follow that. The usual reaction of my pc plays in but to a lesser degree.
It is an unfortunate part of the game. And it gets worse the more taboo your role is.
:(
Because the game world is harsh. But what, losing is fun, right?
Also remember, if they are raiders, most raiders are in it for the RP...people that insta run or always run annoy them...odds are, if you saw them coming they WANTED you to see them coming.
People who insta-run eventually will not see them coming, just a "Something hard strikes you on the head...your vision goes black"
Quote from: X-D on June 22, 2012, 10:04:06 PM
Also remember, if they are raiders, most raiders are in it for the RP...
You know, that is a truth.
Most of the times where I've been in the position described above, the "raiders" turned out to be the same thing my character was: just some grebber trying to make some 'sid. Half the time we'd just exchange information. The other half I'd give up something valuable or share some water and that was that. It was a rare thing actualy having someone run in and start attacking without an emote or word.
The last time I had that happen to me, my raider found out I had a 30+ days played elkran. It wasn't pleasant for them.
Quote from: DustMight on June 22, 2012, 10:14:29 PM
Quote from: X-D on June 22, 2012, 10:04:06 PM
Also remember, if they are raiders, most raiders are in it for the RP...
You know, that is a truth.
I haven't been in too many super dangerous PC situations.. any thing I have encountered, I try and play it out a bit, depending on character of course, I mean, They don't know if I'm stacked with AI's and master of weapons or not ;) Also, depends if I've got enough stamina to flee..
..Always run if it's IC or if you know IC that this is not a fight you want to be in, I suppose.
Me, blinks, looking at your drawn weapons
Me says to you, scowling, Get the fuck out of here, what are you going to do with that?
Me glares at you, my hand brushing against (whatever weapon I'm holding)
Me says ..Is there a problem here?
I try to give most people the benefit of the doubt, not everyone is out to kill me.
As long as you can be justify yourself ICly, do what you think would be most enjoyable.
You want to run, run, you can justify that.
You want to stay, stay, you can justify that too.
You want to pull out your weapons and kick some ass, feel free as well.
So long as you can justify it ICly and with RP, go for it. There are consequences for any action you take regardless. At the end of the day this is an RP game, its supposed to be fun, you just need to do what your character would do, which is coincidentally often the thing you think would be the most fun to do.
On a side note, these days I'd give thumbs up to people riding in, and attacking without warning. This too is justifiable ICly and perfectly acceptable form of raiding. Too many people thinking it is carebear land out there. >:(
Charlize, she never runs.
Quote from: Dresan on June 23, 2012, 05:17:55 PM
On a side note, these days I'd give thumbs up to people riding in, and attacking without warning. This too is justifiable ICly and perfectly acceptable form of raiding. Too many people thinking it is carebear land out there. >:(
Agreed, I haven't been PKed since the red fangs.
l n
n
kill man
disarm
bash
kick
get pack body
Quote from: Jingo on June 29, 2012, 04:06:07 AM
l n
n
kill man
disarm
bash
kick
get pack body
>l n
>emote narrows !me eyes into slits.
>hide
>sneak
>s x 2
>hemote slows ^me breathing.
>pull quiver
>shoot man north
>sheath bow back
>draw longknife armsheath
>draw blade armsheath
>hide
>n x 3
>l u
>l w
>l e
>l s
>l n
>l (creeping along the ground like some stalking feline - but stopping ten cords from !man as #me sinks low in the grass -- ~longknife clenched in ^me teeth) man
>ooc consent to __________?
start a scene..
...
later depending on how things go along..
>get pack body.
or
>put coins quiver
and later possibly sending kudos.
PS: IMO if you avoid PCs and RP in favor of survival so you can get an extra 5 days played or some stupid branched skill... you're doing it wrong. Also.. PKing / Raiding / death situations... should bring out the pinnacle of RP between players.
Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 06:46:20 AM
Quote from: Jingo on June 29, 2012, 04:06:07 AM
l n
n
kill man
disarm
bash
kick
get pack body
>l n
>emote narrows !me eyes into slits.
>hide
>sneak
>s x 2
>hemote slows ^me breathing.
>pull quiver
>shoot man north
>sheath bow back
>draw longknife armsheath
>draw blade armsheath
>hide
>n x 3
>l u
>l w
>l e
>l s
>l n
>l (creeping along the ground like some stalking feline - but stopping ten cords from !man as #me sinks low in the grass -- ~longknife clenched in ^me teeth) man
>ooc consent to __________?
start a scene..
...
later depending on how things go along..
>get pack body.
or
>put coins quiver
and later possibly sending kudos.
PS: IMO if you avoid PCs and RP in favor of survival so you can get an extra 5 days played or some stupid branched skill... you're doing it wrong. Also.. PKing / Raiding / death situations... should bring out the pinnacle of RP between players.
See, something like this, I'd be totally down for. My problem is that on 95% of the times I have been raided, its just been a walk in and attack when I would have actually totally given up coins/items/gear for the sake of rp. Personally I have very little issue with being killed or raided but atleast make it somewhat entertaining for me. TBH with my more recent experiences with this and the current stance that so long as it is following code, if I see people wandering in with weapons drawn, its likely I'd follow your assumptions and just run based on so many past experiences.
i cant wait to post logs of some raids... need more time though :(
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Unfortunately that's just how it is, when people start with attacks first, you really shouldn't expect people to NOT run.
I know if I am walking down the street and someone blows a hole in my shoulder, from down the block, If I'm still able to move, I'm running the fuck away. I'm not going to turn around and go, "Why did you shoot me!?"
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Yeah, you're better off starting with throw.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Was worth every bit of poison I used.. And I went through a lot and still had some to spare.
Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Was worth every bit of poison I used.. And I went through a lot and still had some to spare.
Well, okay. If you have so much you can use it every time you want to make a scene of it, fine. I'd suggest that, if in fact you have that much, and can get it so easily...you might be pushing the bounds at which the staff decide to make it more difficult to come by, or perhaps you have enough 'sid (in the case that you're buying it from someone else) that raiding is more or less satisfying your OOC desire to do so, rather than any IC need.
I'm not really going to argue the point much further, because if you're experienced, you know damn well that wasting those sorts of things on random raid encounters is stupid, and bringing up the few instances where it paid off and made for an awesome scene is just bragging outside the limits of the general discussion.
There are plenty of folks who could step in and brag about all their awesome raid scenes while using certain types of magick...but we're talking about mundane shit in circumstances were Pro Skillz and 1337 gear aren't involved, because let's be honest: raiding shouldn't require a fucking magicker or rare (supposedly) poisons just to be viable and not require minimal RP button-mash macro-spamming.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Was worth every bit of poison I used.. And I went through a lot and still had some to spare.
Well, okay. If you have so much you can use it every time you want to make a scene of it, fine. I'd suggest that, if in fact you have that much, and can get it so easily...you might be pushing the bounds at which the staff decide to make it more difficult to come by, or perhaps you have enough 'sid (in the case that you're buying it from someone else) that raiding is more or less satisfying your OOC desire to do so, rather than any IC need.
I'm not really going to argue the point much further, because if you're experienced, you know damn well that wasting those sorts of things on random raid encounters is stupid, and bringing up the few instances where it paid off and made for an awesome scene is just bragging outside the limits of the general discussion.
There are plenty of folks who could step in and brag about all their awesome raid scenes while using certain types of magick...but we're talking about mundane shit in circumstances were Pro Skillz and 1337 gear aren't involved, because let's be honest: raiding shouldn't require a fucking magicker or rare (supposedly) poisons just to be viable and not require minimal RP button-mash macro-spamming.
The point was (IMO).. it was worth it to build a scene.. And that avoiding such kind of PC's (raiders or the like or simply PC's in general as per the thread) at times can be counterproductive and an overreaction.. as (from my experience) raiders and raidees would rather RP than spam code or show off some stupid skill/spell/item.
Synthesis sure is a cranky old man on the GDB lately.
One of my favorite scenes is when an elf "wasted" poison to render me helpless and robbed me silly - yet left me with just enough to survive and start over. He made out like a bandit, the scene was enjoyable, and I got to experience Real Zalanthan Wildlife. Don't give up, oh ye cynical - the good ones are out there.
Quote from: Delirium on June 29, 2012, 03:25:59 PM
Synthesis sure is a cranky old man on the GDB lately.
One of my favorite scenes is when an elf "wasted" poison to render me helpless and robbed me silly - yet left me with just enough to survive and start over. He made out like a bandit, the scene was enjoyable, and I got to experience Real Zalanthan Wildlife. Don't give up, oh ye cynical - the good ones are out there.
I personally would be pretty annoyed if, in a complete act of random raiding, I got perained or heramided just so someone could steal my goddamn pack. I don't give a fuck about how much you emote while you're stripping it off of me. The fact that you risked your life (supposedly) or spent gobs of 'sid to get the stuff just so you can blow it on some random noob is completely ridiculous.
Yeah, I could do it if I wanted to. I don't. Because it's stupid. I seriously would rather someone just run in and spam-charge me than to go out of their way to gather game-breaking amounts of poison just so they could sit around and emote their dominance while I'm unconscious or paralyzed. You'd all be gnashing your fucking teeth and bitching mercilessly if some templar decided to start incriminating every random passer-by and taking what he wanted, no matter how well he emoted while he was doing it, and it's the same damn principle involved: power and the responsibility that comes with it. The staff put that stuff in the game and keep it like it is because generally people don't get stupid with it. However, if you're squandering it on the daily to steal noob boots, they're going to move the fucking cheese.
...which brings me back to my original point, which is that you can't say "oh well, raiding CAN be nice" while attempting to use scenarios involving magick, mindbending, high-karma guilds or races, rare poisons, or situations where you're "raided" by a giant group of PCs like the Byn or a militia posse as evidence supporting your case, because these scenarios are so far outside the norm (or should be, anyway) that they only distract from the matter at hand.
Quote from: Delirium on June 29, 2012, 04:48:45 PM
I wasn't a noob, my 'stuff' wasn't cheap, and I wouldn't have been easy prey without being poisoned.
...which brings me to the point that you shouldn't use unique scenarios as evidence against a general trend, because it's not the same thing and you're just confusing the issue.
I wasn't a noob, my 'stuff' wasn't cheap, and I wouldn't have been easy prey without being poisoned.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 04:46:19 PM
Quote from: Delirium on June 29, 2012, 03:25:59 PM
Synthesis sure is a cranky old man on the GDB lately.
One of my favorite scenes is when an elf "wasted" poison to render me helpless and robbed me silly - yet left me with just enough to survive and start over. He made out like a bandit, the scene was enjoyable, and I got to experience Real Zalanthan Wildlife. Don't give up, oh ye cynical - the good ones are out there.
I personally would be pretty annoyed if, in a complete act of random raiding, I got perained or heramided just so someone could steal my goddamn pack. I don't give a fuck about how much you emote while you're stripping it off of me. The fact that you risked your life (supposedly) or spent gobs of 'sid to get the stuff just so you can blow it on some random noob is completely ridiculous.
Yeah, I could do it if I wanted to. I don't. Because it's stupid. I seriously would rather someone just run in and spam-charge me than to go out of their way to gather game-breaking amounts of poison just so they could sit around and emote their dominance while I'm unconscious or paralyzed. You'd all be gnashing your fucking teeth and bitching mercilessly if some templar decided to start incriminating every random passer-by and taking what he wanted, no matter how well he emoted while he was doing it, and it's the same damn principle involved: power and the responsibility that comes with it. The staff put that stuff in the game and keep it like it is because generally people don't get stupid with it. However, if you're squandering it on the daily to steal noob boots, they're going to move the fucking cheese.
...which brings me back to my original point, which is that you can't say "oh well, raiding CAN be nice" while attempting to use scenarios involving magick, mindbending, high-karma guilds or races, rare poisons, or situations where you're "raided" by a giant group of PCs like the Byn or a militia posse as evidence supporting your case, because these scenarios are so far outside the norm (or should be, anyway) that they only distract from the matter at hand.
Quote from: Delirium on June 29, 2012, 04:48:45 PM
I wasn't a noob, my 'stuff' wasn't cheap, and I wouldn't have been easy prey without being poisoned.
...which brings me to the point that you shouldn't use unique scenarios as evidence against a general trend, because it's not the same thing and you're just confusing the issue.
The unfortunate thing about d-elves...both Red Fang and Soh...my real issue with running from most any d-elf, really. I've had really good and horrible experiences both with d-elves. The human who raided me was pretty awesome about it. I had a really spotty internet connection and was helping a newbie learn how to mine obsidian and whatnot when dude showed up and demanded her mount. I was in the middle of typing the command to get the ticket out and give it to him when my internet went out, for days, if I recall right. I was so glad she didn't get killed when I went linkdead that I took him aside and ooc offered her mount ticket anyway while explaining what happened and thanking them for being cool. I don't even remember who it was because it was a few years ago, but that was a great encounter up until that point where I went linkdead, at least.
In regards to using the rare/expensive poisons: They were acquired at great expense or risk to my character and should be treated as such. My pcs that mess with them typically reserve those for saving my own life against a dangerous foe, or taking out a dangerous foe. Otherwise, they hold onto them the same as they would an item made of metal. If I was raiding and using those rare poisons, I would be choosing my targets carefully so the profit of hitting them with it was worth using the poison.
This is somewhat of a derail though and if we're going to keep discussing it you should probably create a new thread for it.
jezis maria and blown out of proportion.
I'm keeping my mouth shut and going back into lurking mode.
Synth, no one said that it's a general trend to use rare poisons against noobs. In fact, my anecdote proves the opposite, which was pretty much the whole point, along with evidence of being raided in an entertaining way - which I have experienced many times (without poison). In fact, every time I demonstrated a willingness to stick around and emote, the opposite party returned the favor. So, yes, I do think that it's not as big a problem as you're claiming, and no, I don't think I'm 'confusing the issue'.
I think that the more trust you display in the playerbase, the more you'll get back. It's worked out pretty well for me these last 10 years.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Was worth every bit of poison I used.. And I went through a lot and still had some to spare.
Well, okay. If you have so much you can use it every time you want to make a scene of it, fine. I'd suggest that, if in fact you have that much, and can get it so easily...you might be pushing the bounds at which the staff decide to make it more difficult to come by, or perhaps you have enough 'sid (in the case that you're buying it from someone else) that raiding is more or less satisfying your OOC desire to do so, rather than any IC need.
I'm not really going to argue the point much further, because if you're experienced, you know damn well that wasting those sorts of things on random raid encounters is stupid, and bringing up the few instances where it paid off and made for an awesome scene is just bragging outside the limits of the general discussion.
There are plenty of folks who could step in and brag about all their awesome raid scenes while using certain types of magick...but we're talking about mundane shit in circumstances were Pro Skillz and 1337 gear aren't involved, because let's be honest: raiding shouldn't require a fucking magicker or rare (supposedly) poisons just to be viable and not require minimal RP button-mash macro-spamming.
Actually, technically, these poisons are best used quickly rather than sitting in your backpack for RL months, considering curiosity, theft, and random chance fuck you out of them more consistently the longer you last. Don't acquire the poison that takes months/copious amounts of coin until you have a target for it, or it's -very- likely just a waste of that coin.
Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 06:46:20 AM
PS: IMO if you avoid PCs and RP in favor of survival so you can get an extra 5 days played or some stupid branched skill... you're doing it wrong. Also.. PKing / Raiding / death situations... should bring out the pinnacle of RP between players.
You're making assumptions and suggesting that I do this to
"get an extra 5 days played or some stupid branched skill". How exactly do you know this is mine or someone else's intention when they avoid a likely hostile situation that's about to go down?
It's not your place to decide how / when / where someone RPs or how they go about their RP. If there is a situation where my character would ICly not stick around and run away when people are bearing down on him, it's none of your business what I do and you better believe I'm going to run because ICly that's what my character would do -
it's my choice and you have no right to judge me for it or claim that it's wrong.Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 03:24:08 PM
The point was (IMO).. it was worth it to build a scene.. And that avoiding such kind of PC's (raiders or the like or simply PC's in general as per the thread) at times can be counterproductive and an overreaction.. as (from my experience) raiders and raidees would rather RP than spam code or show off some stupid skill/spell/item.
If I think someone is about to raid me or they start firing arrows at me and I don't think I have a chance of surviving in a fight - either due to knowing the character, large numbers or any other reason - and I think I have a chance of getting away if I flee - and it is ICly something my PC would do - then I will do so. It's not bad RP to want to live to fight another day. It's not bad RP to
want to survive. It's common frickin sense. Nobody wants to die.
If you play a PC that never back downs from a fight, or has a big ego or is honor bound to always take on any battle that comes their way, then that's a different story. But that's not who my current PC is. Some times he will run.
And there's nothing wrong with that.I'm not here to play for your enjoyment. I'm not obligated to RP with you or for you just because you think
it was worth it to build a scene. If ICly I would run then I won't stick around just to go along with whatever YOU want to do because I don't give damn. I won't go completely out of character and do something that would not make sense at all ICly just so you can
build a scene.
Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 03:24:08 PM
And that avoiding such kind of PC's (raiders or the like or simply PC's in general as per the thread) at times can be counterproductive and an overreaction..
As I mentioned in my most recent post, I've been making an effort to better pick and choose when I stick around and staying to see how it pans out a lot more now. I've had some good RP. I made some acquaintances and even some friends, as well as some enemies and had some good scenes. But I never compromised my character, never did something he would not do ICly, just for the benefit of someone else's RP - that's just them being selfish.
EDIT: Please don't misunderstand this as a personal attack or anything of the sort. It's just this kind of thinking really frustrates me and I had to rant to let off some steam.
Quote from: Delirium on June 29, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Synth, no one said that it's a general trend to use rare poisons against noobs. In fact, my anecdote proves the opposite, which was pretty much the whole point, along with evidence of being raided in an entertaining way - which I have experienced many times (without poison). In fact, every time I demonstrated a willingness to stick around and emote, the opposite party returned the favor. So, yes, I do think that it's not as big a problem as you're claiming, and no, I don't think I'm 'confusing the issue'.
I think that the more trust you display in the playerbase, the more you'll get back. It's worked out pretty well for me these last 10 years.
Oh my god, man.
When someone say "raiding can be fun" and then use an example involving poison, what they are really saying is "raiding can be fun if you use this poison." It's a logical implication, and it occurs without them having to actually say the rest.
Hence, my rebuttal is that a) we aren't talking about raiding with poison, because OBVIOUSLY you can do whatever the fuck you want to do and have plenty of time to do it if that's involved and b) poison/magick/weird shit shouldn't be a necessary condition for CONSISTENT kudos-worthy raiding RP scenarios.
I have never once said (or if I did, I was grossly exaggerating) that it is technically impossible for a kudos-worthy raiding RP scenario to occur in the absence of the aforementioned "special" considerations. What I am saying is that this does not occur frequently, it does not occur often, it does not occur regularly--it occurs once in a god damn blue moon, and all you people want to do is take those blue moon scenarios (some of which aren't even blue moon scenarios, since they're "special") and hold them up like it's a fucking counterpoint. It's not a counterpoint! It's the rare exception that shows us how awesome -every- scenario could be, if we'd get off our asses and stop being content about how shitty the code is.
Quote from: Armaddict on June 29, 2012, 05:23:49 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 01:56:19 PM
Quote from: Dakota on June 29, 2012, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 12:04:56 PM
If you actually paused to sheathe your bow and draw two weapons after shooting someone, they'd be about 5-6 rooms away by the time you got around to sneaking into the room they were just in, unless you're wasting relatively difficult-to-get nasty poison on every dumbass raid encounter.
Was worth every bit of poison I used.. And I went through a lot and still had some to spare.
Well, okay. If you have so much you can use it every time you want to make a scene of it, fine. I'd suggest that, if in fact you have that much, and can get it so easily...you might be pushing the bounds at which the staff decide to make it more difficult to come by, or perhaps you have enough 'sid (in the case that you're buying it from someone else) that raiding is more or less satisfying your OOC desire to do so, rather than any IC need.
I'm not really going to argue the point much further, because if you're experienced, you know damn well that wasting those sorts of things on random raid encounters is stupid, and bringing up the few instances where it paid off and made for an awesome scene is just bragging outside the limits of the general discussion.
There are plenty of folks who could step in and brag about all their awesome raid scenes while using certain types of magick...but we're talking about mundane shit in circumstances were Pro Skillz and 1337 gear aren't involved, because let's be honest: raiding shouldn't require a fucking magicker or rare (supposedly) poisons just to be viable and not require minimal RP button-mash macro-spamming.
Actually, technically, these poisons are best used quickly rather than sitting in your backpack for RL months, considering curiosity, theft, and random chance fuck you out of them more consistently the longer you last. Don't acquire the poison that takes months/copious amounts of coin until you have a target for it, or it's -very- likely just a waste of that coin.
Well...I'm kind of working under the assumption that, for you and me, and presumably Dakota (bolded), it actually -isn't- that difficult to obtain...because y'know...it isn't.
Ah.
I am now picking up what you are putting down.
I just wanted to interject, Unless it was changed or the area I used to get it from is no longer in existance, I found the poison that paralyses people CRAZY easy on a past character who had the poison ability.
I mean an area I could run though (with the right planning and ample time to rest in a few spots) and get like ten of them.
Maybe it's just hard to find because you don't know all the places it can be found?
But as I said, it could very well be that staff has made it rarer.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 05:43:43 PM
Well...I'm kind of working under the assumption that, for you and me, and presumably Dakota (bolded), it actually -isn't- that difficult to obtain...because y'know...it isn't.
You assume wrong.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 05:43:43 PM
When someone say "raiding can be fun" and then use an example involving poison, what they are really saying is "raiding can be fun if you use this poison." It's a logical implication...
No. That wasn't what I was implying across raiding in general. I can post more logs of (-most of my raids in fact-) poisonless, spam-kill-less raids. I just made the mistake of posting in this thread and then adding the cunty "more to spare line".. which derailed everything and got you in an uproar.
The point was to post something to hopefully encourage anyone whose new or hasn't played a raider before, to actually try to RP for the benefit of your PC and the one thats getting raided.. Than let the whole thing fall into code.
And yes poison, to a point, lets it fall into code.. So then do it w.o poison. Do it however you want.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 29, 2012, 05:43:43 PM
What I am saying is that this does not occur frequently, it does not occur often, it does not occur regularly--it occurs once in a god damn blue moon, and all you people want to do is take those blue moon scenarios (some of which aren't even blue moon scenarios, since they're "special") and hold them up like it's a fucking counterpoint. It's not a counterpoint! It's the rare exception that shows us how awesome -every- scenario could be, if we'd get off our asses and stop being content about how shitty the code is.
See above.
And I'm done.
Oh I get it now .. Synth is lobbying for the approach code again :P
It's a difficult damn subject to be truthful.
On one side you need the code because it's the absolute equalizer and stops the age old arguement of make belief, "I shot you first!" "Nutuh!" "I did so!" that you run into in MUSH type games.
But on the otherside it is SO absolute that it doesn't leave much in terms of flavor or style to an interaction and the sheer speed of how fast the shit hits the fan can leave the player feeling cheated.
I'm thinking that when someone comes up with a system that allows the expressionism that people want from thought out, emoted exchanges. That ALSO stops someone from avoiding it all together by spam running away. That system will be the most popular mudding system in the world.
It's already been done well, elsewhere. Unfortunately, that game is saddled with a bunch of other problems that completely overwhelm the utility of its approach and grid systems.
As far as I'm concerned, I'll just continue doing what I do: if I don't really care about successfully killing you or taking your stuff, I'll sidle up and emote and play nice; if you need to be dead, it's macro time.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 30, 2012, 02:44:35 PM
It's already been done well, elsewhere. Unfortunately, that game is saddled with a bunch of other problems that completely overwhelm the utility of its approach and grid systems.
As far as I'm concerned, I'll just continue doing what I do: if I don't really care about successfully killing you or taking your stuff, I'll sidle up and emote and play nice; if you need to be dead, it's macro time.
The approach grids and placement in room systems are fine and good until people twink out whatever skill causes them to be able to leap across 100 feet of room the fastest. Then you have my character who is standing near the northeast corner, still getting ganked by yours that came in the southeastern corner due to you spending a month or two running back and forth for that express reason.
*facepalm*
I'm not getting into the details of proper implementation of such a system. Suffice it to say that coding of such a skill is not a necessary condition of the overarching system.
A weapon or a shield is always out when I'm in a lawless area.
That being said, it depends on my pc. Some of my PC's bolt, some stick around, some start a fight. And some tell the other person to screw off before I start a fight. (The last one has gotten me killed a couple times, but that's part of the fun too)
+1 to anyone who sticks around and shares an emote, or stacks on some extremely expressive movement commands.
I played a mul who had to be all like, "It's not rape if you say SURPRISE!!" if he wanted to have a chat and essentially charged into people's locations to get interaction with them.
If he announced himself before he approached another player's room or they saw him coming - they were -gone-.
Understandable, but may have left the character lonely, moody and unstable.
Quote from: Hot_Dancer on July 09, 2012, 06:37:44 PM
+1 to anyone who sticks around and shares an emote, or stacks on some extremely expressive movement commands.
Fuck that! I love my PCs way too much.
I'm totally okay with someone charging me and attacking me emote-less or saying something incomprehensible (often a spell directed at you anyways) which has me me trying to figure out what is going on half the time before they sudden attack. However, the only thing i hope is that my attacker can understand that my heart is beating very fast as i type in mount;e;e;e;e;e;SHOUT FUUUUUUUUUU!!
I have, in the past, -not- run away from PC's in the wilds...and usually it's led to some interesting RP and no death (most of the time they are just as scared as you). But I will usually take a look at someone first...If they look evil and they're wielding a big ass weapon then I'll just run...which is exactly what my character would do.
l s
[Very Far]
The unbridled bastard is charging towards the north!
[Far]
Nothing.
[Near]
Nothing.
Hm. That could be...
l s
[Very Far]
Nothing.
[Far]
The unbridled bastard is charging towards the north!
[Near]
Nothing.
Nah. He's probably just running from a raptor.
l s
[Very Far]
Nothing.
[Far]
Nothing.
[Near]
The unbridled bastard is charging towards the north!
I don't see any raptors... OH HE'S PRO-
The unbridled bastard has arrived from the south.
The unbridled bastard nearly falls over, bleeding from numerous cuts.
The unbridled bastard says to you, in pleading sirihish:
"'Ey, Ah need some help. Mah mate just found out I was cheatin' on her with a gortok!"
TL;DR
Never know what you're gonna miss.
I hope for interaction in the wilds..its the best part of the game. Its good rp to get robbed or have a stand off. I understand the other side though playing the scared PC. I usually play half elfs pretty timid. Certain characters are scared of everything of course they bolt at any moment. Uhh, its getting late I am having to edit out swear words. I prefer the areas where it is unrestrained. Where anything can happen. If you walk in and hit me with no emote of course you get what you asked for either combat or flee;e;e;e;e;e.
If you see someone running towards you with a weapon out in a lawless area, and they're not an NPC, then give them the chance to talk to you. I've had plenty of times when you just have your weapon out 'cuz you're being careful about the area. I mean- Why ever sheathe your weapon in the middle of the Grey?
I can escape most people, so I generally don't run away.
If anything, I run towards the danger.
If I see someone running towards me, I look to where they have run from.
Quote from: solera on July 18, 2012, 01:20:45 AM
If I see someone running towards me, I look to where they have run from.
That seems awfully dangerous.
I mean, keeping the safe two room distance.
Maxim 2: A Sergeant in motion outranks a Lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on.
Maxim 3: An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody.
Replace an ordinance technician with a guy who's bleeding profusely and running past you without emotes.
Quote from: MeTekillot on July 18, 2012, 01:50:40 AM
Maxim 2: A Sergeant in motion outranks a Lieutenant who doesn't know what's going on.
Maxim 3: An ordnance technician at a dead run outranks everybody.
Replace an ordinance technician with a guy who's bleeding profusely and running past you without emotes.
Or those halflings.
I tend to TRY to follow this logic if playing a char that would run.
When I stay
1. If my char is not currently moving for whatever reason and someone walks/runs/rides in they are getting an emote.
2. I pass by a char that gives me an IC reason to stop. Like a long desc or something. Not something as silly as the guy sits here to pounce on anyone who walks by. But something.. even having a tent up or doing something to act like I would possible go up to them. Even if their plan might be to kill.
When I run
1. If my char is already moving and I enter a room that someone is just standing there and there is no IC reason my char would stop.
2. My char sees you through code, such as watch or look. Not scan unless there are no VNPC. Unless there is an ldesc yet again.
3. You are using some code to force the situation on my char. I will use code to prevent it. Though I'll stop entering in flee after a few failed attempts.
And in terms of the of avoiding RP to live another 5 days...
I'm sorry you are not the only person I RP with. If you are playing a raider or scary type char and you are mad because some people run away from you.... That just seems silly.
It is not so much that the raider or scary char gets mad, or even the player for that matter.
It just forces them to resort to coded methods that have a far greater chance at causing death.
When I played Lash/Howls, I had a scene that looked like this.
l n
[Very Far]
A man is here foraging.
[Far]
Nothing.
[Near]
Nothing.
You think. A mark...Oh wait, that guy always runs.
e
draw bow
get arrow with no run poison
w
l n
[Very Far]
A man is here foraging.
[Far]
Nothing.
[Near]
Nothing.
watch north
shoot man north
To the north you see an arrow fly in from the south striking the man in the neck.
The man crumples to the ground.
l n
[Very Far]
Nothing.
[Far]
Nothing.
[Near]
Nothing.
You think, "Well...not runnin now."
ooc dammit, mercy should work on archery.
idea Mercy should work on archery and throw.
Just sayin...you attemping to keep safe by insta running could actually be the cause of death.
All is fair in love, war and PC survival.
For the past few years I have avoided survival in favour of PCs - and let me tell you, it is one hell of a ride! :)
Sometimes being killed can be very entertaining. I try not to shy away from curious pcs I happen across.. even if I care deeply for my current character.
Running away isn't a great survival strategy. It gives the threat a chance to track you down or find you again and get the drop on you. And since you've given away your tactic, the threat will respond accordingly and be more sneaky or more overwhelming the second time around.
Best chance of survival for most dangerous encounters is complete submission and cooperation, deception or counter attack.
When I'm the aggressor, I usually try to create a situation where my victim will survive or die based on their choices and reaction. A lot of pcs seem to prefer death over submission, for some reason.
Unless it's a bounty or some other predetermined kill. Then I try to end it before the target has a chance to react.
Quote from: roughneck on July 19, 2012, 02:45:42 PM
Running away isn't a great survival strategy. It gives the threat a chance to track you down or find you again and get the drop on you. And since you've given away your tactic, the threat will respond accordingly and be more sneaky or more overwhelming the second time around.
Best chance of survival for most dangerous encounters is complete submission and cooperation, deception or counter attack.
When I'm the aggressor, I usually try to create a situation where my victim will survive or die based on their choices and reaction. A lot of pcs seem to prefer death over submission, for some reason.
Unless it's a bounty or some other predetermined kill. Then I try to end it before the target has a chance to react.
If I even SEE another PC anywhere in the Known...I hit run and run all the way to the nearest city. >.>
Sometimes. It depends how I'm feeling. Most times I just run up to them all bolshy like, so they think I'm harder than they are. Then act over confident and send them on their way.
I only avoid PCs in the cities >.>
I had a PC who didn't avoid anyone. In fact, he was the retarded type who stares everyone in the eye (even stared at a templar of the opposite sex in a hostile city state). He died from a cloaked gith who I thought was a PC in the outdoors :(
It's perfectly good RP to run away at the sight of someone in a dangerous area (unless you have a retard who stares at people until they attack). It's kinda out of character to not flee hoping for an interesting interaction. Whether it's good for the game is another discussion.
I can't believe how many of you do this! I am SHOCKED, good sirs.
I can't remember an instance when I didn't interact with whomever I found in the wilds. It's so tense and fun. That's the best. That's why I play Armageddon. None of them has ever slaughtered one of my PCs, but if they had, I'm sure it would have been a better death than most I've had.
Quote from: path on July 20, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
I can't believe how many of you do this! I am SHOCKED, good sirs.
I can't remember an instance when I didn't interact with whomever I found in the wilds. It's so tense and fun. That's the best. That's why I play Armageddon. None of them has ever slaughtered one of my PCs, but if they had, I'm sure it would have been a better death than most I've had.
I felt this way too....until my desperately surviving PC was gripping on to life by their teeth and succeeding...and then a rogue gicker just came and slaughtered them, no role play, no nothing. They were definitely in a position to safely interact without need to kill my char immediately, and my character wasn't going anywhere and really wasn't a threat....so I was pretty peeved about that...I was into that character too...they could have had the decency to give them a memorable ending.
That put me off hanging around. If I've put days of time into a character, I'm not going to flippantly put their lives into the hands of another PC that I have no experience with and could potentially be an absolute tool. I'm an elf.
Quote from: Maso on July 20, 2012, 06:03:52 PM
That put me off hanging around. If I've put days of time into a character, I'm not going to flippantly put their lives into the hands of another PC that I have no experience with and could potentially be an absolute tool. I'm an elf.
Word.
There are plenty of far off places ingame you'd probably be confused seeing other people. In a real life situation like that, I'd probably avoid them.
It is still better than dying to a twinky NPC.
(Was that my curtain call?) ???
I'm not terribly trusting of other players, sadly. I've been PK'd with very little rp and for, what I think, very frivolous reasons. It's not that I haven't done it, once or twice. Sometimes you just want to feel what a PK is like.
So, I'm gonna run the fuck away the next time. Sorry if that spoils the scene.
edit: to be fair, there have been some awesome scenes where PCs who had legitimate reasons to kill mine choose another punishment instead. So, I don't know.
Quote from: spicemustflow on July 21, 2012, 06:27:00 AM
I'm not terribly trusting of other players, sadly. I've been PK'd with very little rp and for, what I think, very frivolous reasons. It's not that I haven't done it, once or twice. Sometimes you just want to feel what a PK is like.
So, I'm gonna run the fuck away the next time. Sorry if that spoils the scene.
edit: to be fair, there have been some awesome scenes where PCs who had legitimate reasons to kill mine choose another punishment instead. So, I don't know.
Someone went and attacked me because they thought I was taking too long in replying to their emotes. I just.. I went and stared at the whole scene for a while after my character died. Silly IC reasons is one thing, but.. Unless you're replying so slowly that you're probably disconnected or something, I don't think typing speed should really be considered ICly, let alone be your license to kill someone.
For all they knew you were waying backup.
Hopefully that's not a recent event, though...
Quote from: Patuk on July 21, 2012, 11:34:06 PM
Quote from: spicemustflow on July 21, 2012, 06:27:00 AM
I'm not terribly trusting of other players, sadly. I've been PK'd with very little rp and for, what I think, very frivolous reasons. It's not that I haven't done it, once or twice. Sometimes you just want to feel what a PK is like.
So, I'm gonna run the fuck away the next time. Sorry if that spoils the scene.
edit: to be fair, there have been some awesome scenes where PCs who had legitimate reasons to kill mine choose another punishment instead. So, I don't know.
Someone went and attacked me because they thought I was taking too long in replying to their emotes. I just.. I went and stared at the whole scene for a while after my character died. Silly IC reasons is one thing, but.. Unless you're replying so slowly that you're probably disconnected or something, I don't think typing speed should really be considered ICly, let alone be your license to kill someone.
I might do the same, considering how long it's taking you. Like Riya said there's a number of things you could be doing, like buying time for someone else to come and save you.
Eh.. That seems pretty lame, it does. If my characters are waying and this affects my reaction speed, I tend to emote that out somehow anyway. And even so.. I wasn't emoting as quickly as this particular raider, but even so, not everyone is a grade-A typist. Taking such a thing ICly and attacking someone over it is pretty lame.
Quote from: Patuk on July 22, 2012, 12:03:10 AM
Eh.. That seems pretty lame, it does. If my characters are waying and this affects my reaction speed, I tend to emote that out somehow anyway. And even so.. I wasn't emoting as quickly as this particular raider, but even so, not everyone is a grade-A typist. Taking such a thing ICly and attacking someone over it is pretty lame.
I think you have to take in account that people don;t know its -You- on the other end of the screen to know -you- would be emoting that your waying or some other thing, when there is no response. I'm curious to know how you know they pked you for the ooc reason of not emoting, or taking to long to do so.
Quote from: Potaje on July 22, 2012, 05:19:39 AM
Quote from: Patuk on July 22, 2012, 12:03:10 AM
Eh.. That seems pretty lame, it does. If my characters are waying and this affects my reaction speed, I tend to emote that out somehow anyway. And even so.. I wasn't emoting as quickly as this particular raider, but even so, not everyone is a grade-A typist. Taking such a thing ICly and attacking someone over it is pretty lame.
I think you have to take in account that people don;t know its -You- on the other end of the screen to know -you- would be emoting that your waying or some other thing, when there is no response. I'm curious to know how you know they pked you for the ooc reason of not emoting, or taking to long to do so.
Because I was typing out an emote, they went 'being difficult, mm?' and attacked me?
I like to give players the benefit of the doubt.
I also believe in the policy of trying to put in as much effort as the people I'm playing with.
If someone walks into a room, looks at me, and attacks me without so much as an emote - I'm probably going to respond in kind.
If someone walks into a room, emotes out a scene with me, I'm going to make it worth their time instead of running away without so much as an emote.
This is a game based upon interaction with others. If you aren't interacting with others simply out of fear of losing your PC - Then you really aren't enjoying everything the game has to offer.
Edited to add:
There is always that 'fight or flight' feeling I get when an unknown, masked/hooded and armed PC enters the same wilderness area as my own PC. There's always that tense moment where you're wondering, "What happens now?"
Even if a small emote, I always try to throw one off acknowledging the player. It's my way of letting them know I'm willing to roleplay with them.
Quote from: Patuk on July 22, 2012, 05:22:29 AM
Quote from: Potaje on July 22, 2012, 05:19:39 AM
Quote from: Patuk on July 22, 2012, 12:03:10 AM
Eh.. That seems pretty lame, it does. If my characters are waying and this affects my reaction speed, I tend to emote that out somehow anyway. And even so.. I wasn't emoting as quickly as this particular raider, but even so, not everyone is a grade-A typist. Taking such a thing ICly and attacking someone over it is pretty lame.
I think you have to take in account that people don;t know its -You- on the other end of the screen to know -you- would be emoting that your waying or some other thing, when there is no response. I'm curious to know how you know they pked you for the ooc reason of not emoting, or taking to long to do so.
Because I was typing out an emote, they went 'being difficult, mm?' and attacked me?
That seems to imply that they thought you were stalling for time in some way or waying... Not that they thought you were in the middle of typing an emote or knew it was you playing the pc.
If you're afraid your typing speed is a concern, next time use smaller emotes frequently. Like instead of "emote nods, shivering with fear, as he slowly reaches up to pulloff his pack and lay it on the ground before stepping back" just go "nod; remove pack (shaking as he does so); drop pack (setting it down on the ground); emote steps back away from the pack". (The semi-colons in this case denote pressing enter - not using them to separate commands on a single line like some clients use it.)
Or at least use a couple smaller emotes to show that you're emoting and not something else.
Quote from: Riya OniSenshi on July 22, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
If you're afraid your typing speed is a concern, next time use smaller emotes frequently. Like instead of "emote nods, shivering with fear, as he slowly reaches up to pulloff his pack and lay it on the ground before stepping back" just go "nod; remove pack (shaking as he does so); drop pack (setting it down on the ground); emote steps back away from the pack". (The semi-colons in this case denote pressing enter - not using them to separate commands on a single line like some clients use it.)
Or at least use a couple smaller emotes to show that you're emoting and not something else.
Or just type: >nod
There are a set of in-game coded emotes. Learn them and use them when you are freaking out. That shows that there is a PC there and active.
Once that initial rush is over of.. OMG.. you can start doing longer emotes if you want.
Quote from: Patuk on July 22, 2012, 12:03:10 AM
Eh.. That seems pretty lame, it does. If my characters are waying and this affects my reaction speed, I tend to emote that out somehow anyway. And even so.. I wasn't emoting as quickly as this particular raider, but even so, not everyone is a grade-A typist. Taking such a thing ICly and attacking someone over it is pretty lame.
It's very situational.
People tend to be very forgiving if they don't think you're fecking around with them. I've been a raider and I've been raided. Pretty much every time I've raided someone, there was a 100% of that person getting out alive without doing something stupid. But too often, they take the stupid route, like drawing a weapon, trying to flee, making threats, or worst of all, "ooc i'm new :("
It's simple.. you drop your weapons, drop your backpack, drop your pants, whatever the raider tells you to. You try not to look hostile. If you're delaying, the raider will assume that you're trying to think of a way to escape. Even worse if you're delaying in the middle of a busy road; the raider wants to get business done immediately, so any delay is a hostile action.
I've dropped to the ground or whatever the raider asks me to... sometimes I get backstabbed/sapped, sometimes the raider lets me off freely for being such a good sport on her turf. But always lived.
I've probably been PK'ed a few times without any emotes or whatever, but quite often, it made sense in RP context. Annoying of course, but when you're running around the 'rinth backstabbing NPCs willy nilly, you can't really complain when a bigger fish tries to backstab you.
I don't avoid PCs anymore, although I did with my first few characters. Some of my characters would still be alive had I taken the safe route, but I think the additional fun of the vast majority of times when things turn out better and more fun is worth it.
Quote from: Feco on July 20, 2012, 06:17:47 PM
There are plenty of far off places ingame you'd probably be confused seeing other people. In a real life situation like that, I'd probably avoid them.
An Abandoned Place [NSEW]
The broken stones of this ruined town seem to still shine from the spilt tears of its enslaved children. A hanging saloon sign creaks as it sways in the wind. Watch your back; there's probably First Nations about.
No one else is here.
You utter a spell.
The uncanny power of the earth does unseemly things to you.
You cackle gleefully.
You utter a spell.
The rocks groan as they are bent to your terrible will.
You shout, in sirihish,
"I'm the juggernaut!"
The figure in a scrub-camouflaged sandcloth greatcloak asks, in sirihish,
"Hey, aren't you Joe's sister?"
I really wish there were some basis for etiquette in situations involving PvP survival. I'm all for playing out a gruesome death scene for my idiotic four-day-old <insert guild, race, and gender here>, but it's tiresome and super anti-climactic when your soon-to-be murderer jumps in without a single emote or show of interaction and proceeds to execute you.
I say again: I wish there were some basis for etiquette. ::)
My PVP interactions involve establishing dominance, and reacting to perceived submission or resistance, which can be IC or OOC.
A smartassed comment is resistance as much as a defensive coded action, and licenses the aggressor to react with action.
Avoidance, fleeing, esp. If you're fleeing from an enforcer of some kind, be it a raider claiming territory or a militiaman, gives free license for hostile action.
I will always remember fondly one of my first rinthis. I walked into (ic info) territory and overtly looted corpses of sentimental value to (ic info) clan member. I told a clearly dangerous enforcer of territorial lines to fuck off, thinking I could get away with it by my OOC skills in running around and being evasive.
I was never more happy to be proven wrong, because the chase took me literally up walls and on rooftops, with the final deadly blow being a lethal poison delivered by throwing knife. I had a SHITLOAD of fun dying with that guy, and boy was I impressed with the hunting skills of the players in this game. It also taught me that avoidance of conflict can often be why you end up dead. (granted, telling him to fuck off wasn't wise, but his intention before killing was to hold me down and teach me who's boss, until by fleeing I showed him it would be easier to just kill me.)
Obviously, you'll get away by running more often than not... But now that I have come to gain some of those skills in PKing myself, I advise avoiders of conflict that you may end up regretting avoiding a scene of conflict. If your goal really is to stay alive, you might want to think carefully on how you react to someone who might perceive your fleeing as a nuisance or insult.
Quote from: Harmless on July 26, 2012, 05:19:25 AM
Obviously, you'll get away by running more often than not... But now that I have come to gain some of those skills in PKing myself, I advise avoiders of conflict that you may end up regretting avoiding a scene of conflict. If your goal really is to stay alive, you might want to think carefully on how you react to someone who might perceive your fleeing as a nuisance or insult.
And likewise, don't bitch when you're hunted down and slain for it (with or without emotes).
The only thing that really seems to be coming from this thread is "if you run from raiders they're just going to kill you". And people keep saying it over and over, as if no one can understand it.
Well, don't be surprised when you start to get actively hunted down en mass by clans for it. There are consequences for both sides so you all need to stop trying to ignore such.
Dieing may be part of the game, but the pattern of escalation is fairly clear that people don't like being raided and killed (or their friend/employees killed).
Reality is that most individual PCs don't bring that much impact to the game. (What's the average PC lifespan now anyway? Last I heard it was almost 2 RL weeks.) That's especially true of the average raider PC.
First off, I must say NPCs are the worst for not emoting! A lot of them will chase you down if you run too! Bastards...
Second off - the way I deal with most raiders:
1) Don't look at them (don't type look figure) - If you don't know their face, they might let you live
2) I then do what my PC would do which could be:
i) Emote drawing my sword (nervously/confidently) then draw my sword - that shows I am more into the rp then just draw and kill
ii) Emote cowering off of the start - I have raided myself before by opening my pack, grabbing coins, throwing them at the person who walked up, and was like "PLEASE DONT HURT ME!"
iii) Emote noticing them in the distance, and running.
Sometimes you die, sometimes you don't. Yet that is the life in Arm.
After my incident some years ago with a Mul Assassin in Under Tuluk (I pointed undertuluk, walked south, got backstabbed killed, respawned, was like wtf, got backstabbed killed) I learnt how best to deal with deaths that happen in the flash of an eye. You need to understand you are writing a story, and not all stories end well. So if your character dies in a flash, well that can happen in RL.
... I forgot what I was saying, heh...
Quote from: Shepard on July 26, 2012, 11:27:31 AM
First off, I must say NPCs are the worst for not emoting! A lot of them will chase you down if you run too! Bastards...
Second off - the way I deal with most raiders:
1) Don't look at them (don't type look figure) - If you don't know their face, they might let you live
2) I then do what my PC would do which could be:
i) Emote drawing my sword (nervously/confidently) then draw my sword - that shows I am more into the rp then just draw and kill
ii) Emote cowering off of the start - I have raided myself before by opening my pack, grabbing coins, throwing them at the person who walked up, and was like "PLEASE DONT HURT ME!"
iii) Emote noticing them in the distance, and running.
Sometimes you die, sometimes you don't. Yet that is the life in Arm.
After my incident some years ago with a Mul Assassin in Under Tuluk (I pointed undertuluk, walked south, got backstabbed killed, respawned, was like wtf, got backstabbed killed) I learnt how best to deal with deaths that happen in the flash of an eye. You need to understand you are writing a story, and not all stories end well. So if your character dies in a flash, well that can happen in RL.
... I forgot what I was saying, heh...
^ this person knows what's up.
I wouldn't be averse to a rule requiring interaction before PK, or before fleeing from potential PK. The problem is applying it to ranged and surprise combat. Simply not looking at someone isn't reLly a good solution, because generally you can't tell whether someone might be a threat or not until you see what they're packing. Also, NPCs don't count...that's a spurious argument.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 27, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
I wouldn't be averse to a rule requiring interaction before PK, or before fleeing from potential PK. The problem is applying it to ranged and surprise combat. Simply not looking at someone isn't reLly a good solution, because generally you can't tell whether someone might be a threat or not until you see what they're packing. Also, NPCs don't count...that's a spurious argument.
My argument had two parents who were married and proper, please don't say my arguments are of illegitimate birth!
But yeah, in the end - there is no solution. I frown when my character dies, I smile when I kills your character. It will never change.
I have had deaths before where I didn't even want to hear or see the emotes anymore, because it was an overpowered situation. Mc Shrug Sauce... I'm leaving this thread now.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 27, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
I wouldn't be averse to a rule requiring interaction before PK, or before fleeing from potential PK. The problem is applying it to ranged and surprise combat. Simply not looking at someone isn't reLly a good solution, because generally you can't tell whether someone might be a threat or not until you see what they're packing. Also, NPCs don't count...that's a spurious argument.
Krath no! If your character -needs- to kill someone for whatever reason, and wasting time interacting or not being able to 'surprise attack' in order to kill them (a la backstab??) would mean not being able to achieve that...then go ahead and just kill them. It sucks...but it's the game. What bugs me is when the PK'er is in a safe position to afford some interaction and role-play - but chooses not to.
Quote from: Maso on July 27, 2012, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 27, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
I wouldn't be averse to a rule requiring interaction before PK, or before fleeing from potential PK. The problem is applying it to ranged and surprise combat. Simply not looking at someone isn't reLly a good solution, because generally you can't tell whether someone might be a threat or not until you see what they're packing. Also, NPCs don't count...that's a spurious argument.
Krath no! If your character -needs- to kill someone for whatever reason, and wasting time interacting or not being able to 'surprise attack' in order to kill them (a la backstab??) would mean not being able to achieve that...then go ahead and just kill them. It sucks...but it's the game. What bugs me is when the PK'er is in a safe position to afford some interaction and role-play - but chooses not to.
I agree cept for the end.
If I hire/am/getting assassined, I don't expect them to RP my death. I expect them to catch me/other alone, bs/arrow , and mantishead. As without this, it prevents a very large fear of living in this world. NPCs can be avoided and yeah drop all is great every time you run into a mugger or raider. But crap it's only sid, really has no major impact except for being annoying. Without the fear of being PKed all you have is NPCs or boredom to kill you. If you live in the city, boredom and PCs are the only way your char can die. Don't make boredom be the only end.
But I don't believe RP should always accompany death.
Death should rarely include closure or reasons, as that is not realistic to this world. Not to mention I feel bad if your assassin gives some guy a chance to RP.. but he looks at you and bolts and tells everyone about you.
Quote from: kayza on July 27, 2012, 03:19:30 PM
But I don't believe RP should always accompany death.
Death should rarely not necessarily include closure or reasons, as that is not realistic to this world.
Agree. Death sucks.
Quote from: kayza on July 27, 2012, 03:19:30 PM
Quote from: Maso on July 27, 2012, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 27, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
I wouldn't be averse to a rule requiring interaction before PK, or before fleeing from potential PK. The problem is applying it to ranged and surprise combat. Simply not looking at someone isn't reLly a good solution, because generally you can't tell whether someone might be a threat or not until you see what they're packing. Also, NPCs don't count...that's a spurious argument.
Krath no! If your character -needs- to kill someone for whatever reason, and wasting time interacting or not being able to 'surprise attack' in order to kill them (a la backstab??) would mean not being able to achieve that...then go ahead and just kill them. It sucks...but it's the game. What bugs me is when the PK'er is in a safe position to afford some interaction and role-play - but chooses not to.
I agree cept for the end.
If I hire/am/getting assassined, I don't expect them to RP my death. I expect them to catch me/other alone, bs/arrow , and mantishead. As without this, it prevents a very large fear of living in this world. NPCs can be avoided and yeah drop all is great every time you run into a mugger or raider. But crap it's only sid, really has no major impact except for being annoying. Without the fear of being PKed all you have is NPCs or boredom to kill you. If you live in the city, boredom and PCs are the only way your char can die. Don't make boredom be the only end.
But I don't believe RP should always accompany death.
Death should rarely include closure or reasons, as that is not realistic to this world. Not to mention I feel bad if your assassin gives some guy a chance to RP.. but he looks at you and bolts and tells everyone about you.
That's basically what I'm saying. I'm just saying, in some situations...for example and raider who has you trapped, tired and injured in the wild...and decides to kill you...and totally has the opportunity for some role-play because there is no chance you're getting out of there...but doesn't...that kind of scenario disappoints me.
PSHT...like you can't be killed in town.
Quote from: Maso on July 27, 2012, 03:31:53 PM
Quote from: kayza on July 27, 2012, 03:19:30 PM
Quote from: Maso on July 27, 2012, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on July 27, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
I wouldn't be averse to a rule requiring interaction before PK, or before fleeing from potential PK. The problem is applying it to ranged and surprise combat. Simply not looking at someone isn't reLly a good solution, because generally you can't tell whether someone might be a threat or not until you see what they're packing. Also, NPCs don't count...that's a spurious argument.
Krath no! If your character -needs- to kill someone for whatever reason, and wasting time interacting or not being able to 'surprise attack' in order to kill them (a la backstab??) would mean not being able to achieve that...then go ahead and just kill them. It sucks...but it's the game. What bugs me is when the PK'er is in a safe position to afford some interaction and role-play - but chooses not to.
I agree cept for the end.
If I hire/am/getting assassined, I don't expect them to RP my death. I expect them to catch me/other alone, bs/arrow , and mantishead. As without this, it prevents a very large fear of living in this world. NPCs can be avoided and yeah drop all is great every time you run into a mugger or raider. But crap it's only sid, really has no major impact except for being annoying. Without the fear of being PKed all you have is NPCs or boredom to kill you. If you live in the city, boredom and PCs are the only way your char can die. Don't make boredom be the only end.
But I don't believe RP should always accompany death.
Death should rarely include closure or reasons, as that is not realistic to this world. Not to mention I feel bad if your assassin gives some guy a chance to RP.. but he looks at you and bolts and tells everyone about you.
That's basically what I'm saying. I'm just saying, in some situations...for example and raider who has you trapped, tired and injured in the wild...and decides to kill you...and totally has the opportunity for some role-play because there is no chance you're getting out of there...but doesn't...that kind of scenario disappoints me.
Okay yeah that makes sense. I mean it would be great if an assassin was in the second delay of bsing you.. whispers - Maso sends their wishes.. That would be friggan awesome!
But the knowledge that at any moment your char could get killed is a requirement. So please start killing people now in hopes you get me. Okay GO!
The one time I actually pked someone, I had to try it like 3 or 4 times, luckily not revealing my identity to anyone along the way. Once I found out the person was all about gtfo asap.... I had to use less conventional means, but after they appeared, I still had the time to whisper 'traitor' at them before they died. So there was that, at least. Then the meks ate him alive. >.>
I recommend against not looking at PCs, unless that PC orders you not to.
Without looking at them you have no idea what's going on. They could have a flaming sword and a bunch of glowing ioun stones and six legs, for all you know, and oughtn't you know?
So unless your raider calls out "Hold it! Drop your shit! Eyes on the ground or you're dead!" you should probably look at them.
A long long time ago, I was raided by a naked mul. He wanted my mount. I raised my hands defensively and backed away towards it. I couldn't even understand what he was saying and i think i was saying something to the effect, "whoa there buddy, lets calm down now. No need to do anything rash". The Mul ran off, and then started throwing spears at me.
Dafuq, you throwing spears at my badass assassin? I don't know if i grabbed his spear or one of my own weapons but i just threw something back at him. After twinking using my throw skill for so long i'm guessing it hurt when it hit his neck because after he got back to his feet, he was gone.
The moral of this story is that if you want the pack/cloths/mount/tight ass on my badass rangers(which will now all be warriors from now on) that i've been twinking training hard, well then you gonna have to fight for it, son.
Unless you are a mage, you are welcomed to anything on me then, sir or ma'am. Unless i get a chance to type s;s;s;s;s.
Quote from: Synthesis on July 27, 2012, 02:43:58 PM
I wouldn't be averse to a rule requiring interaction before PK, or before fleeing from potential PK.
Given I don't play much, feel free to disregard me. However I would hate to see such a rule. Just, no. We encourage good behaviour by rewarding it. We shouldn't say "you must do X amount of says/emotes before killing someone."
That said, I would definitely support a player driven standard that says you should interact with a potential PKer before fleeing/PKing them. Not doing it wouldn't be grounds for a player complaint. But doing so would definitely be grounds for a player kudos.
I would not want a rule like that either. Honestly.
Some characters would never die.
Quote from: Nyr on September 13, 2010, 10:53:27 AM
Fleeing is roleplaying! I roleplay a lot, I know this.
I haven't really read beyond the first page of this thread but...
In my experience playing PCs in lawless areas, it can be really frustrating to have people autowalk away from you faster than you can even get an emote off. It's also incredibly frustrating when people walk in and reel-lock me without anything besides "KILL MOTHERFUCKER" faster than my screen updates.
I wish I could tell you to give raiders/muggers/whoever the benefit of the doubt and stick around for some substantial RP, but unfortunately, there's not really a way to know if that's what's going to happen. My rule of thumb, from the perspective of a raider/mugger, is to try and interact with my target and give them a fun experience before making off with their nice things. If a target makes no attempt to play the situation out and spamflees, I default to some advice I received from Nyr:
QuoteI'm not saying it's not annoying. I am saying "stab the guy in the leg so he stops moving," or "shoot him in the face with a perained arrow so he stops moving." :-)
I've found it easy to encounter other PCs "out there in them thar wilderness" and live to tell about it. What's hard to do, is know whether or not that "tall figure in the red windcloak" in the same room as an inix 3 rooms away, is a PC who's foraging for rocks, or a gith who killed his latest victim. So I -do- avoid tall figures in red windcloaks (and similar). Unless I really REALLY want the inix :)
Sometimes I might not have time for a PC interaction in the desert; I might be just wanting to get from one city to the next, so I'm "in place" the next morning when I log back into the game. Since I put that constraint on myself and chose to ride and not just log out for the night instead, I will ride away from PCs I notice during the journey, instead of riding toward them. If they're 2 rooms south of me, I'll move east, and then go south (for instance). And I'll justify it ICly by simply being a little nervous about riding that day and not wanting to get raided.
It takes a long time...RL months, really, for any kind've raider concept character to be legitimately dangerous. After that, all it takes is one misstep and you're essentially hosed. It doesn't matter if you're playing a mul warrior with AIs across the board, you're going to die. So I don't know. If someone wants to raid me, they're welcome to do it with as little or as much RP as they can muster. Chances are, they're doomed. I'll give back exactly what I receive on a per-individual basis. Raiders that RP the most with their victims tend to survive the longest, cause people like keeping them around.
The first exception to this rule are certain sorcerers from ages past. Hell, for all I know, it could have been the same guy iin the last ten years who simply only plays that role. You've heard all the stories. They just do whatever they want and the rest of us are flotsam in their turbulence. They might RP with you, they might eat you. But you're not a threat to them, most likely, so they have no real 'impetus' to be desperate. 99% of the time, if you even notice them somehow, they are lonely and just want to play :-[.
The second exception, is if the raiders have some kind've coded support, such as belonging to a coded tribe. Such as a certain tribe of Desert Elves. But every single tribe of super-raidy desert elves has been wiped out, I think, by now. But what I do know, is that while those coded tribes persisted, the members were generally confident and comfortable enough (because they had safe places and continuity), that they were able to RP lots and lots around the various brigandage and not feel like they were screwed if someone got away.
What's the moral to all this? It's not really worth it to avoid anyone on the horizon, except for those wearing windcloaks. Screw those gith bastards.