A few FAQ's and ideas on how to play a well-fleshed assassin role:An assassin is neither a warrior nor a ranger. Many players tend to think that they should play an assassin, just to play something different, and end up wondering why their long-lived assassin still sucks as compared to some other guilds, in combat. An assassin's forte is not one-on-one combat (even though they do get decently good at it at very high levels), but rather, to be the master of delivering deathly strikes, using the elements of stealth, camouflage and surprise.
An assassin should almost always opt to use all the skills at their disposal, to carry out strikes and complete them as soon as possible. Using projectiles is always a safe bet, to keep an assassin's identity secret. The use of poisons cannot be stressed enough! You have the ability to disable the target critically by using poisons - make it a point to find a teacher in-game, and learn about poisons and their cures.
An assassin is a hunter and killer of humanoids primarily, and that too in urban regions. Yes, some may adapt to use their skills in the outdoors, but they will never be as effective as they can be in their own milieu. (Yes, an uber-trained sniper rifle assassin RL CAN go out hunting game in the great outdoors, but he'll never be as good at it as a hunter who has trained and hunted all his life in the outdoors -- try to imagine a huntsman on one hand, and an assassin on the other, trying to hunt a bear or a wild boar in the wilderness, who do you think will be more effective?).
Assassins are able to kill or knock out their targets instantaneously - both are very effective tools, depending on the end-goal. Again, this has to be considered in context with the assassin's training and capabilities. (An experienced assassin RL would be able to take out a human target with ease, but, you would never consider employing an assassin to kill an elephant or knock-out a rhino!).
A lot of players assume that playing an assassin in the shadier parts of Zalanthas is the de-facto choice. This is a misunderstanding. Burglars and Pickpockets possibly have a wider vista of opportunities in urban areas, and are as adept at shady activities. It is common for players to apply for an assassin's role, and never carry out a single assassination during the course of their PC's existence (practising backstab and sap and randomly killing NPCs do not count!).
So, to put it succinctly, plan on playing an assassin if you are interested in carrying out humanoid assassinations primarily - over the long run. You may opt to be a master of disguise and subterfuge, but bear in mind that urban espionage is something other guilds can do more expertly than a hardcore killer.
- How do I practise backstab/sap with the appropriate RP?
First of all, both these skills are meant to be used to attack real targets, and it is considered to be bad form to practise them with sparring weapons and with sparring partners, even if the partners are willing to let you practise your skills on them. (Its unrealistic to tell someone that you're gonna try and surprise them and shove a sharp object into their back, or, try to crack their skull, even if it's just in a sparring compound or friendly setting -- knowing that the attack is imminent is enough to vitiate the concept of a hidden attack).
As far as RPing these skills is concerned depends entirely on your imagination. Perhaps you're a breed who's hated by all other races, and you're retaliating their unkindness to you. Or perhaps you're a human who hates elves or vice-versa. Perhaps someone tried to trip you while you were sneaking around. Or perhaps someone tried to steal something from you. Whatever the case, RP the interaction between yourself and your target, and then RP how your PC attempts these critical attacks.
Senseless backstab and sap attempts without appropriate RP and reasoning/thinking will brand your assassin as a random killer -- and people are always watching from the shadows -- be prepared to face the consequences if you go this route - which could well result in a similar attack on YOU, without any RP or prior warning.
- How can I make my assassin good?
There is only one answer to this: Reputation.
Everyone needs to get someone or the other killed, for whatever reasons they might have at some point. But no one would entrust the job on some unknown person with doubtful capabilities, lest their own hand be revealed.
An assassin must play a dual role of guarding his identity, but at the same time having a reputation that will tempt people to hire them. Making your name or alias known in different circles, will ensure a steady flow of enquiries. Carrying them out successfully will ensure riches and reputation. Having friends or front-men who will promote your reputation in different locations is something you as an assassin might wish to consider after reaching a certain level.
- This could get boring, what do I do in the meantime?
Assassins don't get up every morning, read the news, and go out and assassinate a few people. We're not talking about some terminator machines here! As an assassin, you will have a dual life - one that is your normal life, which might entail the life of a crafter, or that of a mercenary, or that of a House guard or even that of a lazy good-for-nothing loafer; the other side of your life will involve your shady activities - and these might be periodical, depending on your effectiveness, reputation and the general socio-political sentiment of the place you live in. So, a good assassin will always try and be on the move, to keep getting more jobs, and at the same time, not stick around in one place too long, after the completion of prior jobs. Again, this will only help build up the assassin's global repute.
- Are there any suggestions to fine-tune assassins?
Several. Each player will come up with their own techniques. The main advice I'd offer is for an assassin to scope out his target, the people his target deals with, and the general vicinity of where the target lives and operates, and identify safe hiding places nearby in case a retreat is warranted, or, identify points where the assassin might be able to get his hands on the target easily, with the least chances of detection or arrest. Getting into and out of difficult/locked places gives an assassin a huge edge in covering his tracks or delivering surprise attacks! Effective use of incendiary devices is always something to be considered when it comes to assassinating high-profile targets or when an assassin wishes to remain completely out of the picture. An assassin's ability to scope out other hidden folk is a life saver. Knowing how to effectively shadow a target is the assassin's best weapon.
Assassins - don't think of shadow ninjas or Chuck Norris or The Terminator........think of the sweet, eclectic, mild-mannered old man living next door to you for the last 20 years, who dresses up in a suit and takes off for a few days randomly, and comes back home with a million dollars added to his off-shore bank account!
Good write-up, except 'incendiary devices' is no longer an option, unless your assassin makes certain friends.
Though this should be obvious, I'll add a comment:
You don't have to pick assassin guild, to be an assassin. Rangers, warriors, mages of various types, muls with little skill but that insane rage thing, half-giants with brute strength, can all PK effectively and become known (or unknown) assassins.
The assassin guild, however, is particularly geared toward sneaky assassin-related skills. Whereas other combat-related guilds are geared specifically toward other things.
But you want to play an assassin, RP-wise, don't feel you have to pick assassin guild, code-wise. There are other ways of murdering PCs than the path of the coded assassin. Assassins just do it, assassinish :)
Very good, thank you :)
Somebody needs to make me a demotivational.
Picture of Ezio from Assassin's creed.
"50 day assassin"
"Didn't kill anyone"
I love and hate playing assassins. Love them for their superb skill sets and hate for their tendency to OHK. I feel dwarven assassins are just ... over the top personally.
Also, you don't have to be an assassin RP-wise, because you pick the assassin guild. You can be a lot of different things, regardless of coded guild.
Personally, I find stereotypical assassins (ie, where by various signs you can tell they sneak and stab people) tedious and unappealing.
Some people complain about PCs using the 'bard excuse' for being an assassin. It's not a bad 'excuse'. They are usually bards first and stealthy killers second.
This seems more of a guide for guild_assassins that want to play an assassin, and it's very well written for that purpose. I think the points past the backstab practice are pretty useful for assassin characters of any guild.
Edit: I should add a couple of things. This guide seems geared toward people that never successfully tried the concept of an assassin before, which is great. Also, the Player Collaboration forum is a good spot for posts like these.
Cutthroat played my favorite sort of guild_assassin I've seen in game. He did a lot of things suggested here.
This is in roleplaying discussion, not code discussion, so limit your critiques and input to things to do with roleplay. (I've moderated myself as well in this regard concerning a reply I made aimed at another post.) If you have nothing to offer except "this stuff sucks," kindly do not post.
I can't really add anything to this, op did a great job. Can we please have this archived when the discussion is finished though? :-*
Quote from: Cutthroat on February 13, 2012, 04:38:39 PM
This seems more of a guide for guild_assassins that want to play an assassin, and it's very well written for that purpose. I think the points past the backstab practice are pretty useful for assassin characters of any guild.
Edit: I should add a couple of things. This guide seems geared toward people that never successfully tried the concept of an assassin before, which is great. Also, the Player Collaboration forum is a good spot for posts like these.
Thanks Cutthroat.
The reason I posted it first in Roleplaying forum is to get feedback/views/suggestions from the other players/Staff.
I personally prefer to post in Player Collaboration after a post/idea is fully-fleshed out, and ready to be viewed in it's entirety - especially for the benefit of newbies.
I'll wait till replies stop coming in, and then consolidate various inputs, and then post it in Player Collaboration forum.
Be a character first, assassin second.
Why does your character watch people fall forward with a dagger in their backs for a living? Probably the most important question.
-Are you interested in furthering a cause?
-Is this the only thing your character knows?
-Do you kill out of necessity, or enjoyment?
-Do you want to excel at killing people, and building a reputation?
-Why can you stomach killing people?
I think one of my favorite assassin-guild characters who played as 'an assassin' was a Corporal for the Tuluki Legion, who was convinced that he was saved from a magicker's first manifesting by the Sun King's grace. He was stone cold, and determined to root out and destroy any subversives, especially mages. For him, he was a tool to be used, a citizen soldier. He wasn't interested in killing for money, fame, or power- he wanted to be able to silence voices against the Highlord.
I think a motivation gives a character much more body than, "I want to take contracts and perform kills."
To be honest, the only time I ever play an assassin as an "assassin" is if he is actually licensed as an 'assassin' in Tuluk or after a pretty long period of time.
All the other times an assassin is basically a dude without military training who has a knife. Or a coward who has a knife. Or a dude who thinks he is smarter then those silly soldiers with their weird ways and stabbing a dude in a way that finishes the fight is much smarter then carrying around shields and formations and all that crap.
I do not believe that a beginning backstab is ... any kind of an art form or a special move or anything like that. It's just a foolhardy stab where you put all of your strength and weight in, which totally puts you off balance and would make any seasoned swordarm facepalm himself. After awhile, after many scraps, after many experiences, after improving sneak/hide, after dealing with all kinds of awesome character development stuff that is usually linked to coded skill improvement but not 'only' that, does a backstab become this ... speshul way of killing and a dude with a knife becomes a 'deadly' assassin.
In all the movies, all the professional hit men. Not the drug addict kids who got paid peanuts to walk into an alley, shoot, and run away. But real pro hit men who pull off high scale assassinations and so on. I bet they're all ex-military, or ex-spooks, or ex-somekindofamilitarysemimilitary organization. I believe very few of let's say ... rinthi assassins fall under a category of professional hit men.
Rinthi assassins more come from the gangs of new york movie. Where a dude explains how to kill a person the best way by butchering a cow.
Ofcourse special organizations that worship silent death (Kali worshippers, hassassins, include IC orgs here) are somewhat exempt 'as long' as they really are worshipping it and put aside at least 'some' kind of a roleplay of worship/self perfection, and not just limit themselves to scrapping and a le Byn training.
Once you decide it is time to kill someone it's usually incredibly detrimental to actually try to role-play with them, sometimes people are good about it. But, more often than not, people want their character's to live. They reach out of the way to anyone they ever saw all, and I've done it too. On one end, I understand, on the other hand it's really difficult to do right by someone RP-wise when they really need to die. :-\
You wind up getting people who are just Assassinate X because it's SAFER, and then a mountain of complaints and hard feelings... :'(
It's a vicious cycle.
Tough role to play.
Generally, for a contract to come up -someone- or some group has to be playing in a way that brings up
conflict/interaction/competition and actually has the audacity to rub someone the wrong way. It takes
two to tango and a death generally very simply ends the story. The staff isn't holding our hands in pushing
plot lines these days so crushing our own story-lines with a quick murder of a key figure will often just lead
to more idle time in the tavern for everyone involved. This includes the assassin, contracts don't come up
often (past the kill the latest uber sorcerer/psionicist/chase whatever into the most dangerous depths of
the world and end it stuff that is generally available static).
Your character is just a local knife, you collect your reward and move on (or get murdered by your employer).
Your story contribution will likely be small.
Every now and then you'll get a low impact contract, like some thug who is causing trouble for the Merchant
House that has employed him. Thing is, you wont hear about it as said House can probably handle the
problem on their own without paying your obscene rates or even risking sharing sensitive information with
you.
You have to put the sharp thing in the person.
Quote from: Delirium on February 13, 2012, 10:58:48 AM
Good write-up, except 'incendiary devices' is no longer an option, unless your assassin makes certain friends.
God I miss those...
Good times blowing my own face off...
My tips for being an assassin:
a) Don't assume that you're going to be a ninja any time soon unless you go heavy on the skill bumps. Plan and play accordingly.
b) See a).
c) Don't get tunnel vision on your backstab skill. There's more to life.
d) All of the above.
E) Make friends that can help with training and gathering supplies. Assassin's need this more than rangers or warriors combined.
On a side note, but something I found interesting is read this book, it has greatly changed my viewpoint and idea of an assassin...
(http://api.ning.com/files/5cqZd6IK8f1BP5yb8oSIHicdLc2YGjy7mVcdog1he10wEdhlaNxZYuWWBCbsvhyzd3EwtO8FMEj54BBrg50wfcD4ozXhLn4p/thewayofshadows.jpg)
I am not trying to say it is an amazing book and what not, but it is something that has a more appropriate viewpoint for us and works well with what you said before.
>e
>backstab figure
>e
>backstab figure
[ten hours later]
>e
>backstab templar
My favorite Assassin was a Winrothol Cavalier with poor wisdom that over a few years could kill gortok and tandu, and never once Pked. In fact he got to hold and see copper once. and had the trust and admiration of the noble he worked for.
my second favorite burglar was about the same in the south. A house guard that never stole a thing, and used his skills mostly to pull people out of holes. LOL.
My longest-lived assassin was a low-strength Bynner who eventually became a sergeant under a PC Lieutenant. Rumor was he was a sekrit magicker, because he could not fight particularly well and "never" did anything stealthy.
It taught me about "lead from the back" tactics in Arm, which I found suit my preferred RP much better. I do not think he ever used backstab. But his approach to life was assassin-like. Scope the target, bait the target, have it taken down quickly and brutally. Do not fight unless you are getting paid.
Everything is in the bible. This is how the bible says you should play an assassin:
Judges, Chapter 3...
15 Again the Israelites cried out to the Lord, and he gave them a deliverer —Ehud , a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. The Israelites sent him with tribute to Eglon king of Moab. 16 Now Ehud had made a double-edged sword about a cubit[d] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way those who had carried it. 19 But on reaching the stone images near Gilgal he himself went back to Eglon and said, "Your Majesty, I have a secret message for you."
The king said to his attendants, "Leave us!" And they all left.
20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his palace[e] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. 22 Even the handle sank in after the blade, and his bowels discharged. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. 23 Then Ehud went out to the porch[f]; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them.
24 After he had gone, the servants came and found the doors of the upper room locked. They said, "He must be relieving himself in the inner room of the palace." 25 They waited to the point of embarrassment, but when he did not open the doors of the room, they took a key and unlocked them. There they saw their lord fallen to the floor, dead.
26 While they waited, Ehud got away. He passed by the stone images and escaped to Seirah. 27 When he arrived there, he blew a trumpet in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went down with him from the hills, with him leading them.
28 "Follow me," he ordered, "for the Lord has given Moab, your enemy, into your hands. " So they followed him down and took possession of the fords of the Jordan that led to Moab; they allowed no one to cross over. 29 At that time they struck down about ten thousand Moabites, all vigorous and strong; not one escaped. 30 That day Moab was made subject to Israel, and the land had peace for eighty years.
KJV is better =P
Anyway, while interesting, it's not too descriptive - but then what do you want from something thousands of years old...
Only thing I can add is the less likely you are to seem an assassin, the better... Though sometimes that has the opposite effect and makes everyone think you're up to something...
I'm for dropping the guild completely, myself, especially if there are excellent options in the extended subguilds.
I'm not sure the game, as a whole, gains anything with assassin guild characters - especially as has been mentioned in the thread you don't need to be an assassin to BE an assassin.
derail
And we should just combine warrior/ranger and get rid of the individual guilds also.
/derail
I like having all the options. There are plenty of uses for assassin guild, ranger guild, and warrior guild. Any consolidation of guilds will only make things more dull imo. I strongly believe the main guilds are fine where there are.
My .02.
The FAQ asks this question: "How do I practise backstab/sap with the appropriate RP?"
The FAQ never answers the question "how do I practice backstab/sap" at all...so adding "appropriate RP" is, I think pointless.
You could say how to practice <insert any skill> with appropriate RP" and have the same paragraph underneath. I think what happens is that new assassins (or newbie assassins) quickly get frustrated because they don't know how to practice their skillz. With a warrior, it's pretty straight forward. With a thief it can be pretty straight forward. With an assassin - maybe it's not.
That's my only critique. The FAQ question promises a lot but delivers very little. Newb assassins will continue to make the same mistakes.
Quote from: titansfan on June 22, 2012, 11:07:05 AM
I like having all the options. There are plenty of uses for assassin guild, ranger guild, and warrior guild. Any consolidation of guilds will only make things more dull imo. I strongly believe the main guilds are fine where there are.
Agree 100%. I enjoy the choices, variety and specialization this brings to the game - no need to change this.
Quote from: DustMight on June 29, 2012, 07:35:08 PM
My .02.
The FAQ asks this question: "How do I practise backstab/sap with the appropriate RP?"
The FAQ never answers the question "how do I practice backstab/sap" at all...so adding "appropriate RP" is, I think pointless.
You could say how to practice <insert any skill> with appropriate RP" and have the same paragraph underneath. I think what happens is that new assassins (or newbie assassins) quickly get frustrated because they don't know how to practice their skillz. With a warrior, it's pretty straight forward. With a thief it can be pretty straight forward. With an assassin - maybe it's not.
That's my only critique. The FAQ question promises a lot but delivers very little. Newb assassins will continue to make the same mistakes.
I'm starting to fear that I'm sounding like a troll far too often, but.. Well. Do -you- have any suggestions?
Quote from: Patuk on June 29, 2012, 08:19:13 PM
Quote from: DustMight on June 29, 2012, 07:35:08 PM
My .02.
The FAQ asks this question: "How do I practise backstab/sap with the appropriate RP?"
The FAQ never answers the question "how do I practice backstab/sap" at all...so adding "appropriate RP" is, I think pointless.
You could say how to practice <insert any skill> with appropriate RP" and have the same paragraph underneath. I think what happens is that new assassins (or newbie assassins) quickly get frustrated because they don't know how to practice their skillz. With a warrior, it's pretty straight forward. With a thief it can be pretty straight forward. With an assassin - maybe it's not.
That's my only critique. The FAQ question promises a lot but delivers very little. Newb assassins will continue to make the same mistakes.
I'm starting to fear that I'm sounding like a troll far too often, but.. Well. Do -you- have any suggestions?
Hell no. I have never played a success assassin. :-\
Kill stuff/mug people.
Quote from: Patuk on June 29, 2012, 08:19:13 PM
I'm starting to fear that I'm sounding like a troll far too often, but.. Well. Do -you- have any suggestions?
1. Leave backstab/sap for last; you don't start training your warrior by focusing on trample and blind-fighting, do you? Learn the basics of stealth and of melee combat, which are fairly easy (sneak around and spar with people).
2. Find a PC who can train you via the teach command, so that you can get up to a moderate level of experience without having to 'grind' as much.
3. Backstab people and/or monsters for some valid in-character reason.
4. If you really want sap, consider choosing a subguild which starts with it.
Honestly, backstab and sap are sweet, but the average assassin-classed PC is going to get a lot more mileage out of poison, parry, throw, and basic weapons skills. You absolutely do not need to train backstab or sap to start assassinating people, either.
Teach is basically useless from what I've been able to gather, but the rest of the advice is alright. You don't need to grind backstab and sap, because they increase very, very quickly if you understand the mechanics of training and know how to maximize your failure rate.
Quote from: jstorrie on June 30, 2012, 02:24:10 PM
Quote from: Patuk on June 29, 2012, 08:19:13 PM
I'm starting to fear that I'm sounding like a troll far too often, but.. Well. Do -you- have any suggestions?
1. Leave backstab/sap for last; you don't start training your warrior by focusing on trample and blind-fighting, do you? Learn the basics of stealth and of melee combat, which are fairly easy (sneak around and spar with people).
2. Find a PC who can train you via the teach command, so that you can get up to a moderate level of experience without having to 'grind' as much.
3. Backstab people and/or monsters for some valid in-character reason.
4. If you really want sap, consider choosing a subguild which starts with it.
5. Try not to act like Batman or an anime character, it just makes people want to kill you.
You don't really need to grind backstab or sap at all, in all honesty.
Just have your PC learn how to fight, like any other PC would, and then use backstab or sap to initiate fights where possible. You'll skill up quickly enough.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 30, 2012, 02:38:32 PM
5. Try not to act like Batman or an anime character, it just makes people want to kill you.
Lies. Everyone knows that the skull-shaped, skull-embroidered blackened skull-beast skull codpiece gives +5 to backstabby.
The whole point of having backstab is that your character sucks at fighting, so he cheats a little. Thus, advising people to "train combat" before learning how to backstab kind of defeats the purpose.
I guess it's good advice for staying alive and all that, but it's terrible advice for roleplaying a dirty scumbag. I guess it comes down to "ninja assassin" vs. "gangs of new york assassin."
But the character class that starts with backstab does not suck at combat.
If you want your PC to be a guy who kills guys, it makes sense for you to get him some combat training, whether he's a ninja or a dirty scumbag, I think.
Quote from: jstorrie on June 30, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
But the character class that starts with backstab does not suck at combat.
If you want your PC to be a guy who kills guys, it makes sense for you to get him some combat training, whether he's a ninja or a dirty scumbag, I think.
Every class sucks at combat when they start out, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.
And I suppose it all depends on what you think is implied by "some combat training." If getting in a bunch of street scraps counts, then I agree. However, I think being sat down and taught and/or demonstrated to is a scenario that isn't necessarily universally applicable.
QuoteYou don't really need to grind backstab or sap at all, in all honesty.
Just have your PC learn how to fight, like any other PC would, and then use backstab or sap to initiate fights where possible. You'll skill up quickly enough.
This is the truth of it. You arn't going to be able to train backstab without getting into fights of some kind. I feel for the elf assassins that can't join a military clan.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 30, 2012, 02:48:06 PM
The whole point of having backstab is that your character sucks at fighting, so he cheats a little. Thus, advising people to "train combat" before learning how to backstab kind of defeats the purpose.
murder
Quote from: spicemustflow on June 30, 2012, 04:42:18 PM
Quote from: Synthesis on June 30, 2012, 02:48:06 PM
The whole point of having backstab is that your character sucks at fighting, so he cheats a little. Thus, advising people to "train combat" before learning how to backstab kind of defeats the purpose.
stuff
That isn't even partially intimated in the help files, so you probably should go back and delete it, whether it's true or not.
He doesn't have to delete it. He's voicing his opinion. It does feel a little weird and off, but whatever.
There are certain things about game mechanics that are better left unsaid on the GDB.
I know this, because I've been banned for it before.
K, I'll edit it out. I should probably add that I have a talent in drawing wrong conclusions about the code
You need to kill all the witnesses.
Quote from: Jingo on June 30, 2012, 04:19:04 PM
I feel for the elf assassins that can't join a military clan.
Elven assassins can join the Byn and save the stabbing for while on contract/desert patrols/training, etc. But then that has a whole bunch of other problems like being a elf in the Byn that actually goes on contracts.
Elves can join the Kuraci Fist, too.
Quote from: Is Friday on July 01, 2012, 06:53:15 PM
Elves can join the Kuraci Fist, too.
I hadn't thought of this. But this might be and even better clan for an elven assassin wanting to become a competent/bad ass fighter.
Though I love assassins, least when they were the best at what they did...don't ever expect to be a "badass" fighter with one. You will not be.
I've always been curious how assassins, in a straight-out walk-up-to-each-other no-poison fight, would fare against rangers and against burglars, assuming that everyone is average and of the same race. I guess more curious about assassin v. ranger because docs suggest that burglars are decent fighters.
Quote from: X-D on July 02, 2012, 12:38:20 AM
Though I love assassins, least when they were the best at what they did...don't ever expect to be a "badass" fighter with one. You will not be.
It's subjective.
Assassins are "okay" fighters late in their careers.
and just like anybody who spars a lot, an assassins gets pretty badass. Elementalists can kill sand worms by themselves if they're ridiculous enough with the whole offense/defense grinding.
Quote from: Cind on July 02, 2012, 12:44:32 AM
I guess more curious about assassin v. ranger because docs suggest that burglars are decent fighters.
Burglars and pickpockets are decent fighters when compared to merchants and mages, but they don't turn to the path of the warrior as much as experienced rangers or assassins do.
Subjective? Heh.
I suppose you are correct, if you consider a badass fighter somebody that can kill a scrab and only get hit once.
But the fact is, given equal time/stats/race, in straight melee, The ranger will crush the assassin and the warrior will crush the ranger.
Given LOTS of time, a good warrior can walk into a room with say 10 gith and walk out alive...leaving the gith dead...the ranger might be able to manage 6 and the assassin maybe..2.
So no, by most standards, an assassin will never be a "badass" fighter.
But that is alright...they are not meant for long term face to face combat...neither is the ranger really.
Keys to playing an assassin is knowing this, and knowing your target, then making the hit at the right time and place.
Backstabbing a warrior out in the open when he is armed and has two friends standing by...ends in a dead assassin (really happened BTW) Waiting till he has unloaded his mount after a hunt and is unarmed and too loaded down to defend on the other hand....
Eh, assassins aren't that bad. It's just that most assassin PCs aren't that good.
Yeah, come on, everyone really knows it's more like 10:5:3 gith dead than 10:6:2 gith dead.
I always though it would be cool if Rangers had +1 wildlife combat and Assassins had +1 humanoid combat.
I agree with XD's assessment more or less.
Of course there is no matching a vetran group 5 with any assortment of skillsets.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 02, 2012, 09:19:38 PM
I always though it would be cool if Rangers had +1 wildlife combat and Assassins had +1 humanoid combat.
That would be super cool.
Quote from: Maso on July 04, 2012, 11:57:40 AM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 02, 2012, 09:19:38 PM
I always though it would be cool if Rangers had +1 wildlife combat and Assassins had +1 humanoid combat.
That would be super cool.
I was told like...10 years ago that this was actually already the case.
I'm curious why this de jure roleplay/de facto code discussion hasn't been locked yet.
Nyr must be on a Skyrim binge or something.
Assassins, by their very nature, tend to spend their lives running from hiding from conflict / fighting. Opposite of someone who makes their living assessing their victims durring combat.
I think assassin's should worry themselves with how to do the most amount of hurt in smallest time window possible, for several reasons.
1, to give other people less opportunity to catch them.
2, to give their opponent less opportunity to get away.
3, I've found that when assassin PCs are destitute enough to kill those of their own kind (the 'innocent' hard-working scum of the Known) they usually can't afford the best protection. Small time windows means less bruises received.
I'll hop on the blatant code discussion argosy even though I know better:
Haha, wait, no I won't.
bs Templar
That is how you really play an assassin, the rest of you are just pansies.
Best assassin skill
give templar 5000 coins
Quote from: Jingo on August 13, 2012, 05:07:26 PM
Best assassin skill
give templar head.templar.enemy
FTFY
I don't know if this was already addressed, but I don't agree with this point:
Quote from: Incognito on February 13, 2012, 10:45:02 AM
- How do I practise backstab/sap with the appropriate RP?
First of all, both these skills are meant to be used to attack real targets, and it is considered to be bad form to practise them with sparring weapons and with sparring partners, even if the partners are willing to let you practise your skills on them. (Its unrealistic to tell someone that you're gonna try and surprise them and shove a sharp object into their back, or, try to crack their skull, even if it's just in a sparring compound or friendly setting -- knowing that the attack is imminent is enough to vitiate the concept of a hidden attack).
It's not unrealistic to train sap and backstab on a willing target, at least not any more than it's unrealistic to practice picking pockets on your friend. Sap is the knowledge of where on the back of the skull to hit someone so they lose consciousness and I don't see why you could make someone look at the wall while you pound his head until you get it right. The same with backstab, it's just a cunty blow that targets sensitive spots like carotides and such and it doesn't even require your target to have their back turned. It's not terribly different from feints that more straightforward warriors use. Any blow relies on surprise, backstab or not.
It's not realistic to expect that every assassin had to learn all their murdering skills on the field. "No, Faithful Lady, I didn't have a mentor, I was self taught. I committed a genocide. I'm an artist."
Really? You don't find it unrealistic that someone might say "sure, go ahead and knock me out with a club to the back of the neck over and over for practice!" or "sure, go ahead and see if you can stab me in the carotid artery!"? I don't understand who in their right mind would agree to be a sap or backstab 'target.'
HELP TEACH
S'all I'm saying.
The fact that the game does not provide a way to practice sap/backstab is because of the metagame. I train mofos to kill other mofos all the time with bone crushing/life ending knife techniques all the time and we practice them safely. Every army or organization in the world that ever trained others to kill have found ways to train dangerous skills safely.
Basic muscle memory, timing, practice--all of that shit is going to make you much more proficient in a real situation rather than just tossing someone in the alley and saying "Have at it for real, kid!" To be honest, that training method is kind of retarded--but it's the only one rewarded with skill ups in game. Shucks. What's a gamer gonna do?
You could emote out those techniques and use the Teach command.
Sure it's realistic to learn how to kill people without attacking anyone, at least in real life. However the code and skill system is like Is Friday is saying, it only rewards those that perform the skill. The only way to improve is to do. The only way to practicing attacking/maiming/murdering someone is to attack them. It's sad but just how the game works.
One can probably see why it shouldn't be too easy to learn backstab to high levels, it's a very powerful ability. Staff's reasoning probably is something to the effect that, there needs to be some risk involved in order to learn how to become a cutthroat. Maybe some day a staff member will come up with a more realistic way to learn/improve ability without actually performing them (nil reach backstab/sap? Yeah that's just silly.) Until then we just have to suspend disbelief and find a way to make it work.
About teaching, teaching only imparts the basics, unfortunately. (or maybe that is fortunate)
It's certainly not for realism... but I'm not sure if it's the metagame or just the way that the code treats training as a real life fight. Which is why I think training weapons should not remove hp. Even when used to back-stab, throw, sap... etc.
I suppose it could be like this to keep assassins and burglars from being strong, but... They're kind of weak as fuck without those skills.
I dunno. I played an assassin who found all of two opportunities to use backstab in a realistic manner(in about five months of playing). It just doesn't make any sense to me unless I'm going out there trying to kill fuckers, or taking my city-class assassin out in the wild to train on tregils.
Quote from: Schrodingers Cat on August 14, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
One can probably see why it shouldn't be too easy to learn backstab to high levels, it's a very powerful ability. Staff's reasoning probably is something to the effect that, there needs to be some risk involved in order to learn how to become a cutthroat.
There's no risk for Warriors. Or Magickers. Or Rangers(archery). to become uber powerful killing machines.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 14, 2012, 08:07:37 PM
Quote from: Schrodingers Cat on August 14, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
One can probably see why it shouldn't be too easy to learn backstab to high levels, it's a very powerful ability. Staff's reasoning probably is something to the effect that, there needs to be some risk involved in order to learn how to become a cutthroat.
There's no risk for Warriors. Or Magickers. Or Rangers(archery). to become uber powerful killing machines.
You're right warriors, magickers, and rangers, don't have much risk practicing but when it comes down to trying to kill someone they do have a lot more at risk when dealing with the crimcode afterwards though (maybe not so magickers depending on what kind they are). Sure this only applies in civilized areas (cities/towns) but that's the real domain of the assassin guild anyway. Warriors and rangers can't really attack someone and expect to walk away without a lot of risk if they've got a crim flag. And with magickers, it really depends on the magicker.
Clearly jstorre, you have never done MCMAP training in the Marines, where people are happily blood choked and bludgeoned in the name of manly man-ness.
Quote from: Schrodingers Cat on August 14, 2012, 08:27:28 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 14, 2012, 08:07:37 PM
Quote from: Schrodingers Cat on August 14, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
One can probably see why it shouldn't be too easy to learn backstab to high levels, it's a very powerful ability. Staff's reasoning probably is something to the effect that, there needs to be some risk involved in order to learn how to become a cutthroat.
There's no risk for Warriors. Or Magickers. Or Rangers(archery). to become uber powerful killing machines.
You're right warriors, magickers, and rangers, don't have much risk practicing but when it comes down to trying to kill someone they do have a lot more at risk when dealing with the crimcode afterwards though (maybe not so magickers depending on what kind they are). Sure this only applies in civilized areas (cities/towns) but that's the real domain of the assassin guild anyway. Warriors and rangers can't really attack someone and expect to walk away without a lot of risk if they've got a crim flag. And with magickers, it really depends on the magicker.
We're not talking about trying to kill people with skills. We're talking about realistic ways to train skills so that they can be used. When was the last time you heard someone complain about griefing assassins getting away too easily anyways? The backstab skill may indeed give this option, but it's not like it's the only option. There actually are quite a few easy way to get away from crim-code when wanting to kill someone that don't have anything to do with sneak and hide. Not to mentions there's quite a few wilderness rooms in cities for rangers to do what they please in.
I really doubt this is a metagame issue. Stifling assassins from training without being hunters, or murderers would be a lousy way to do that, even if it were. It's just the way the code works, and it's irritating. And somethign that can only really be fixed with the code.
Allow training skills on dummies. Allow training weapons to do no damage.
Best assassins are the ones who work for the Templarate and are immune to crim-code. They are horrifically dangerous. I.e Arm of the Dragon assassins. Only type of character I'm afraid of IG, because they can kill you anywhere, anytime, and probably get the help of the guards even if they bungle it. I'd rather fight a raging mul.
And how exactly does that soldier train the skill? :P It's actually the clanned roles that I find the hardest time finding reasons to train things like that, throwing, archery, backstab, sap.... It's those clanned roles that pose the most limits. They though, very rarely, have that one badass old-timer who can teach you. But it's so rare I've never had it happen.
And the teach command sucks imo, needs a buff. :P
Edit: Damn, aren't I a whiny bitch today. I suppose this thread is not my soap box, sorry for the derail.
1. Training backstab -can- be done. But it essentially involves following around behind a bunch of uber warriors and using it on the wildlife.
2. Do the above enough and you (and your band mates) will be very surprised.
3. If I'm not mistaken, there is some precedent of staff raising the skill if you're in a role that doesn't stab gith much. Clarification would be nice.
subguild_hunter..... just sayin'.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 14, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
Stifling assassins from training without being hunters, or murderers would be a lousy way to do that, even if it were.
Yeah I already knew you could backstab animals. But taking that as training for how to assassinate a real human being really doesn't sit well with my craving for realism.
Quote from: Scarecrow on August 14, 2012, 11:22:46 PM
Best assassins are the ones who work for the Templarate and are immune to crim-code. They are horrifically dangerous. I.e Arm of the Dragon assassins. Only type of character I'm afraid of IG, because they can kill you anywhere, anytime, and probably get the help of the guards even if they bungle it. I'd rather fight a raging mul.
lol
Quote from: Jingo on August 15, 2012, 02:06:10 AM
1. Training backstab -can- be done. But it essentially involves following around behind a bunch of uber warriors and using it on the wildlife.
Double lol.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 02:12:44 AM
subguild_hunter..... just sayin'.
Triple lol.
I guess I'll have to hope for:
Quote from: Jingo on August 15, 2012, 02:06:10 AM
3. If I'm not mistaken, there is some precedent of staff raising the skill if you're in a role that doesn't stab gith much. Clarification would be nice.
Get in good with a templar? Sure they have people they'd like to get... fixxed.
Or at least won't mind a missing elf here or there.
Or just backstab a random breed or c=elf PC and tell the templar they hit you first. ;)
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 03:13:44 AM
Get in good with a templar? Sure they have people they'd like to get... fixxed.
Or at least won't mind a missing elf here or there.
Or just backstab a random breed or c=elf PC and tell the templar they hit you first. ;)
Lol yeah, you don't need to be a psychopath murderer to kill breeds and elves, I suppose. Those are just unintentionally beneficial mistakes.
"I swear Lord Templar, I just stumbled with my knife out and slipped it between this breeds shoulder-blades. He fought back afterwards no matter how much I pleaded with him, so I had to put him down."
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 15, 2012, 02:50:01 AM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 14, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
Stifling assassins from training without being hunters, or murderers would be a lousy way to do that, even if it were.
Yeah I already knew you could backstab animals. But taking that as training for how to assassinate a real human being really doesn't sit well with my craving for realism.
I wish I could find the scene on youtube from Gangs of New York, where Daniel Day Lewis teaches Leonardo DiCaprio how to backstab a pig carcass. I think the rule of not being able to >backstab things like training dummies is a little unfair, but I guess it depends on what you think the skill backstab represents: the forceful stabbing of someone somewhere important, or the ability to move stealthily into stabbing position? One makes more sense to use a dummy for than the other.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 15, 2012, 03:20:47 AM
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 03:13:44 AM
Get in good with a templar? Sure they have people they'd like to get... fixxed.
Or at least won't mind a missing elf here or there.
Or just backstab a random breed or c=elf PC and tell the templar they hit you first. ;)
Lol yeah, you don't need to be a psychopath murderer to kill breeds and elves, I suppose. Those are just unintentionally beneficial mistakes.
"I swear Lord Templar, I just stumbled with my knife out and slipped it between this breeds shoulder-blades. He fought back afterwards no matter how much I pleaded with him, so I had to put him down."
Yeah, humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = lulz.
Powerful or connected humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = one of the most confusing/hilarious/unrealistic things I have ever experienced IG.
Elves are people sapient creatures with rights kankable useful to someone important too!
Yeah, they're just mad you got to practice skills on them and they lost their chance. ;)
Moar race hate IG, people!
Race and class hate. People treat 'rinthers too well.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 15, 2012, 02:50:01 AM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 14, 2012, 11:17:13 PM
Stifling assassins from training without being hunters, or murderers would be a lousy way to do that, even if it were.
Yeah I already knew you could backstab animals. But taking that as training for how to assassinate a real human being really doesn't sit well with my craving for realism.
I used to think like that. But then I never got good at backstab. :(
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 03:31:13 AM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 15, 2012, 03:20:47 AM
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 03:13:44 AM
Get in good with a templar? Sure they have people they'd like to get... fixxed.
Or at least won't mind a missing elf here or there.
Or just backstab a random breed or c=elf PC and tell the templar they hit you first. ;)
Lol yeah, you don't need to be a psychopath murderer to kill breeds and elves, I suppose. Those are just unintentionally beneficial mistakes.
"I swear Lord Templar, I just stumbled with my knife out and slipped it between this breeds shoulder-blades. He fought back afterwards no matter how much I pleaded with him, so I had to put him down."
Yeah, humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = lulz.
Powerful or connected humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = one of the most confusing/hilarious/unrealistic things I have ever experienced IG.
You seriously don't get to kill elves in either city just because their elves, bro. Even Templars can't, really.
Well I mean you can. If you really wanted. Just, there are consequences.
The only thing you need to be a great assassin is great RP. If you want an deadly assassin all you have to do you give him/her a great personality and you are set.
You don't really need backstab, sap or even sneak/hide. Combat skills might help if you want to do the actually killing yourself at the very end i suppose, but much like sneak/hide there are even ways around that with RP alone. Coded abilities are nice but are mostly fluff half the time and they don't always make the job any easier as opposed to a skilled use of the say/contact command.
The fact of the matter is yor aren't going to kill some people with code alone anyways. :-X
Assassin's can kill just fine with the code.
Quote from: Dresan on August 15, 2012, 04:08:24 AM
The only thing you need to be a great assassin is great RP. If you want an OP assassin all you have to do you give him/her a great personality and you are set.
You don't really need backstab, sap or even sneak/hide. Combat skills might help if you want to do the actually killing yourself at the very end i suppose, but much like sneak/hide there are even ways around that with RP alone. Coded abilities are nice but are mostly fluff half the time and they don't always make the job any easier as opposed to a skilled use of the say/contact command.
The fact of the matter is your aren't going to kill some people with code alone anyways. :-X
Yes we all know the best assassin's lure their target into a killzone via copious scheming over the Way.
Quote from: Jingo on August 15, 2012, 04:14:24 AM
Quote from: Dresan on August 15, 2012, 04:08:24 AM
The only thing you need to be a great assassin is great RP. If you want an OP assassin all you have to do you give him/her a great personality and you are set.
You don't really need backstab, sap or even sneak/hide. Combat skills might help if you want to do the actually killing yourself at the very end i suppose, but much like sneak/hide there are even ways around that with RP alone. Coded abilities are nice but are mostly fluff half the time and they don't always make the job any easier as opposed to a skilled use of the say/contact command.
The fact of the matter is your aren't going to kill some people with code alone anyways. :-X
Yes we all know the best assassin's lure their target into a killzone via copious scheming over the Way.
I actually didn't when i first got started. That information would have been helpful to me way back then but i guess it really comes with more experience of the game.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 03:31:13 AM
Yeah, humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = lulz.
Powerful or connected humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = one of the most confusing/hilarious/unrealistic things I have ever experienced IG.
Bit of a derail, but you seriously think it's unrealistic that you can't kill members of the most interconnected and xenophobic groups there are and get away with it?
No, sorry, only that other humans (the law) would care much lass than if you had killed (or assaulted) a productive, non-sneakythievingbackstabbing human. ;)
Also, be sure to report the elf attacking you to the law as soon as they flee from your failed backstab attempt. ;)
Quote from: spicemustflow on August 15, 2012, 04:47:20 AM
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 03:31:13 AM
Yeah, humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = lulz.
Powerful or connected humans getting in trouble for killing elves in a city state = one of the most confusing/hilarious/unrealistic things I have ever experienced IG.
Bit of a derail, but you seriously think it's unrealistic that you can't kill members of the most interconnected and xenophobic groups there are and get away with it?
You say that as if their xenophobia extends to people outside of their respective tribe... Or that a tribe is large enough to even be a blip on something of the scale of the Allanaki militia. Or that for some reason the inherent bias and racist tones of a slew of humans would care even one bit if the likes of an elf would challenge them. After all the highlord is on the side of the humans, not the elves. Otherwise they might hire them.
No, any sort of punishment towards a member of His Arm should be for disobedience or lack of control, rather than a fear of elves and their power. Killing an elf , for a Templar, or a Templar's soldiers, should be much like squashing a bug underneath their heel. Sometimes it's dissapointing, because that bug might hold some value, but there should be little punishment if that person was simply acting on their intuition or insticnts.
Not every eleven tribe is powerful. Most should not be feared in any way. And one tribe owes absolutely no respect for another, and will fear them just as much as a human, or any other race.
No, I didn't mean that Highlord and his Templars fear elves, only that, as a human who wants to learn how to slit throats, you're much better off targeting poor humans in the commoner's quarter, not poor elves whose family will track you down and kill you. They won't bother reporting your crimes to the templarate. And the elf tribe in question doesn't have to be powerful at all, it's enough that there's three dozens of them, craftsmen and whatnot during the day.
ending the derail with: if the Highlord/Sun King didn't see any use in the most powerful elven tribes (read, the ones open to play) they'd be long gone.
Quote from: spicemustflow on August 15, 2012, 07:44:05 AM
No, I didn't mean that Highlord and his Templars fear elves, only that, as a human who wants to learn how to slit throats, you're much better off targeting poor humans in the commoner's quarter, not poor elves whose family will track you down and kill you. They won't bother reporting your crimes to the templarate. And the elf tribe in question doesn't have to be powerful at all, it's enough that there's three dozens of them, craftsmen and whatnot during the day.
I disagree entirely. I think a Templar is going to be much more irritated with you killing affiliated humans than affiliated elves. Regardless of who those affiliations might be. It's the Templar who soldiers fear, not the random elves who's tribes extend only a couple cousins down the family line. There are plenty of humans who regard their family just as highly as any old elf, and there are plenty of humans who's families are much larger than elves. They just won't trust and respect them as much as an elf would tend to, after having gone through the many trials of friendship an elf will have.
And if you do piss off a large elf familily, it's much easier for that Templar to explain to his own superiors that "Well, it's just another elf family."
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 15, 2012, 07:53:18 AM
I disagree entirely. I think a Templar is going to be much more irritated with you killing affiliated humans than affiliated elves. Regardless of who those affiliations might be. It's the Templar who soldiers fear, not the random elves who's tribes extend only a couple cousins down the family line. There are plenty of humans who regard their family just as highly as any old elf, and there are plenty of humans who's families are much larger than elves. They just won't trust and respect them as much as an elf would tend to, after having gone through the many trials of friendship an elf will have.
I think it all depends on affiliation. Seven elves who peddle ceramics are insignificant, three hundred who keep contact with outside traders are not. Mind, I'm talking about a common commoner human, not comparing a GMH to a tribe. Even though, in one or two cases, I think a comparison can be made.
I still don't see what authorities have to do with anything, it's not like elves will run to the militia to report a murder. Not if they could solve the matter themselves, at least.
Quote
And if you do piss off a large elf familily, it's much easier for that Templar to explain to his own superiors that "Well, it's just another elf family."
Is it? I thought that templars aren't necessarily up to speed about the plots of their own superiors and can fuck up just like everybody else. If you have a large tribe that, in their own way, do the templarate's will in their own territory, then you don't have just another elf family.
If you've read the elven docs, some tribes do cooperate with the robes, out of mutual interest.
Anyway, I think the point we're both making is that killing random people of any race and affiliation will have much more chance of turning you into a corpse, rather than a master assassin.
Quote from: spicemustflow on August 15, 2012, 08:12:13 AM
Anyway, I think the point we're both making is that killing random people of any race and affiliation will have much more chance of turning you into a corpse, rather than a master assassin.
I think that the soldier should have much more leeway in this regard. I don't honestly know how to address this than to say that I feel they simply don't have enough power or respect, for where they are. A Templar has all this power, yes. And his underlings are probably withing this realm if they're trusted. But it honestly doesn't feel that way in game. It feels as though if you fuck up, the world will come crashing down on your head to put you in your place, much like you suggest it would.
And I just simple disagree with the notion, no matter how much IC there is to back it up.
Elves are going to track you down? Wait, what? This isn't CSI. There's no video/fingerprint evidence.
Watch M. From imdb: "When the police in a German city are unable to catch a child-murderer, other criminals join in the manhunt". There wasn't video/fingerprint evidence in 1931 but there was a network of whores, pickpockets and other watchful types.
Every community targeted by a serial killer would eventually try to stop him.
Btw, Richard Kuklinski - the Iceman ( a new york mob hitman), was, by his own words, practicing murder by going into the poorer sections of New York and killing bums and lowlifes. But I'm not sure if you should believe the stories of a narcissistic sociopath whose only pleasure in prison was to spook psychiatrists with his horror stories.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on August 15, 2012, 06:46:33 AM
No, sorry, only that other humans (the law) would care much lass than if you had killed (or assaulted) a productive, non-sneakythievingbackstabbing human. ;)
There are multple variables at play. Such as the discretion of the kill, general social status, the individual templar etc. But I'm still pretty sure that the Templarate holds a monopoly on lethal force. And they ought to be very interested in any party who is violating that monopoly.
And in my opinion, a dirty grebbing human doesn't hold much more social merit that a dirty elf in the eyes of the city state. I'm sure either the elf or the human would like to think their better than the other. But according tot he people in power, they are both a part of the unwashed masses.
I can also think of several elves that had very good relations to the templarate of their respective cities. Randomly killing them would have been a -very- big deal.
Isn't this thread about assassins?
Yeah kill all them elves!
Or better yet,
Kill everyone that way you are sure you got someone you are suppose to hate!
Yes, you can skill up backstab without leaving the city or being in the militia.
But that doesn't mean you can just go around backstabbing people. You have to be smart about it, have reasons for it. Unless you're a psychopath, you probably have no reason to be killing poor commoners, random elves or destitute 'rinthis. You can, however, find commoners that are not so poor and whose deaths can be profitable. Start out playing a murderous thief with zero finesse, and grow into the assassin role (because really, no PC besides a dwarf should start out thinking 'I wanna become a badass assassin!').
Perhaps it's that newb part of me that's never been brave enough to attempt an assassin, but it always seemed to me as if killing someone wouldn't be the most difficult part. All sorts of folks can kill.
I was always curious about how assassins find jobs. Outside of being stabled by a Templar or noble, how do assassins advertise so that people know to hire them? Heck, how do people even find them to hire? "Hey, you have anyone that needs killin'?" seems a little too straight forward, and it seems like passing that around could get you picked up real quick.
1. Listen for marks, don't advertise.
2. Be patient and test the person for a few RL days as best you can to confirm they really want the person dead and aren't assassin fishing for the law or other parties best to not be found out by.
3. As privately as possible, let the person know that you know someone who can handle it for the right price, or have a front wo/man to do so.
4. Never admit to anything to anyone.
Also, joining clans who seem like they might get such contracts from time to time is a good place for an assassin to be.
The teach skill is of modest utility here. It'll get you off the ground floor but not much further. If you want to do things Gangs of New York style and have a mentor train you on chalton carcasses, you can log your training sessions and request a skill increase through the request tool.
Quote from: musashi on August 14, 2012, 09:08:59 PM
Clearly jstorre, you have never done MCMAP training in the Marines, where people are happily blood choked and bludgeoned in the name of manly man-ness.
Sure, but those people are training subdue and bludgeoning weapons. Not sap.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on August 15, 2012, 03:20:47 AM
"I swear Lord Templar, I just stumbled with my knife out and slipped it between this breeds shoulder-blades. He fought back afterwards no matter how much I pleaded with him, so I had to put him down."
I have encountered (and played!) templars who would not only accept this excuse, but might even have their aide pour you a nice drink for such an entertaining story.
I would imagine it's more fun to play an assassin (coded guild) if you don't focus on getting better at those two skills. Use the skills when you need to do so, instead of going out of your way to find situations where you can use them.
I'll be honest I didn't read this thread, so I am sorry if this has been mentioned already but -
Guide to playing an assassin:
backstab everything you see, all the time, day and night, in city and out of city, humanoid and animal
The end.
I feel we're touching base on a lot of IC info that some people wouldn't normally know about.
This thread started off as talking about the roleplaying aspect to being an assassin - Not how hard it is to max out your uber skillz compared to other guilds.
The OP expressed concerns with how to PLAY an assassin as much, if not more so, than how to twink out the skills.
The problem is that many people think the meat of 'playing an assassin' is 'using the backstab or sap skill on people.' I'll reiterate what I said earlier: getting tunnel vision on backstab and/or sap is the quickest way to ensure you have no fun at all as an assassin. Don't fixate.
Quote from: jstorrie on August 15, 2012, 04:39:00 PM
The problem is that many people think the meat of 'playing an assassin' is 'using the backstab or sap skill on people.' I'll reiterate what I said earlier: getting tunnel vision on backstab and/or sap is the quickest way to ensure you have no fun at all as an assassin. Don't fixate.
Sagenod.
You guys are all either forgetting something very important or too clever to give it away.
Sap and backstab are not the assassin's most powerful skills, by any means, so I whole-heartedly agree with anyone arguing not to tunnel-vision them.
Yeah, you're all failing to mention something very important.
But I'm not going to be the one to throw it out there.
Being cryptic doesn't help anyone.
Quote from: armandhammer on August 15, 2012, 05:09:26 PM
Yeah, you're all failing to mention something very important.
Please don't say social skills and a network of friends.
Or that you don't have to be guild_assassin to be role_assassin.
Quote from: spicemustflow on August 15, 2012, 05:32:31 PM
Quote from: armandhammer on August 15, 2012, 05:09:26 PM
Yeah, you're all failing to mention something very important.
Please don't say social skills and a network of friends.
Nah, that'll just get you figured out, before you're even wanted for anything. You need to stay away from everybody! That's the only way to succeed.
Edit: I hate this thread. This thread is 6 pages too long. "Why hasn't this been locked yet?" should've been my last post.
Quote from: jstorrie on August 15, 2012, 02:33:41 PM
Sure, but those people are training subdue and bludgeoning weapons. Not sap.
Actually, the non-lethal techniques have been taken out. And I think buttstroke, lethal baton/"weapon of opportunity", knife training with intent to kill opponents is about as close as you get to training sap.
Sap as a skill would be ridiculously easy to train. As would backstab. I don't really see what the argument here is. You can give someone a wooden knife/club, tell them where to stab, and have them practice it over and over with varying scenarios. Pretty flippin simple.
You don't have to be Solid Snake to bonk somebody on the head with a billy club or know how to do it well. You need to learn to approach someone quietly and how to swing a club. That doesn't require you to kill 50 people in order to get good at it.