Armageddon General Discussion Board

Personally I pick either dwarf or half giant. Sometimes it seems difficult to play a dwarf without being such a psychotic douchebag that you really can't interact with a normal human and have fun at the game. I think dwarves and half-giants are so far on the edges of the human norm that they would be the hardest. Basically you'd have to have a psychological disorder to get in their heads comfortably.

Elves are sort of hard but not as selfish and crazy to play as dwarves.

Half-elves and Muls feel easy for me. I've got angst and I've been an outcast etc.

Humans are easy mode of course.

City-elves, because they're stuck in the city (if they're smart, anyway), and their average stats are garbage.  If you roll monster-truck stats, they're playable...otherwise, have fun with your flavor role.

I voted muls, because in my opinion they should be much more complex than 'angst' and 'outcast', they aren't just a bigger tougher version of halfbreeds. For instance the whole bondmate deal. Pretty much all of them must be escaped slaves, and have to deal with the mindset and background that go along with it - in that, they are more limited than dwarves with their focus who can at least choose different flavours of foci.

And maybe most importantly - there aren't that many PC muls, and especially not in most civilized areas. For that reason, there are few, if any role models to get inspiration from.

I went with half giants and dwarves because they're the two race I see played kinda "meh" most frequently.

Quote from: musashi on January 17, 2012, 05:19:53 PM
I went with half giants and dwarves because they're the two race I see played kinda "meh" most frequently.

I dare say that's only because muls are much higher up on the karma scale.  :D

City elf: stats are bad, and there's probably only one clan in your area that's friendly to you - if that. Playing on-flavor tends to mean incurring even more hostility. And you can't exactly pick up and move if things start to turn sour.

Mul: your stats are amazing, but no clan in any area is friendly to you. You will be welcomed along only as long as your utility as muscle exceeds your value as a gift to one of the two templarates - and it won't always. Playing on-flavor tends to mean incurring even more hostility, again.

Conversely, the easiest race to play: dorf. All clans love you, your stats are amazing, only bahamets and mekillots can kill you, and you have a documented excuse to powergame all erryday.

Quote from: jstorrie on January 17, 2012, 05:25:21 PM
Conversely, the easiest race to play: dorf. All clans love you, your stats are amazing, only bahamets and mekillots can kill you, and you have a documented excuse to powergame all erryday.

Fixed.

I should of been more specific I think about playing the personality of the character rather than more ooc aspects, but oh well.

Mul and half-giant, for reasons everyone knows anyway.

I voted dwarf and half-elf. Bad muls tend to get weeded out pretty quickly, and poorly-played half-giants have a tendancy to solve themselves. City elf would be my third.

Mul. HG is tough, but they are free. Playing a slave with a low sense of self-worth and an identity crisis... it's a half-elf, a Dwarf with no Focus, and long hours of little to no action all wrapped up into one. There's a reason it's a high-karma race. Harder than that, I can only think Mantis might be.

I couldn't ever play a breed, I don't think. Fuck the (inward) melancholy, and the social pariah bullshit. I had enough of that in high school.

Half-giant.

It's a personal thing. Playing something who's mind doesn't always match the speed of both mouth and the situation is hard, dude. Mul's don't have to ignore a lot of what goes on under their nose.

In regards to the racial requirements themselves, I would guess half-giant is the hardest, simply because pretending to have stupidity and gullibility is very hard. And you have to do it without being child-like for it to be proper.

All non-human roles do have the challenge of making sure they have a real, distinct personality on top of the racial requirements. I think dwarf is the easiest, because each dwarf has their particular focus which can easily be built into particular personality and set of habits. Races whose racial roleplay requirements prescribe major elements of their personalities, like half-elves, half-giants and muls, are a greater challenge.

Mul can be a difficult race for sure. Played one for quite a while and at times it was hard for me as the player to watch even.

Half-elves and their fucking angst.

Dwarves and their single-minded nature... I actually do okay with dwarves.

Half-giants and their low intelligence. I play them like... intelligent idiots, if that makes any sense. "Of course I know how to do that. I'm not stupid." <--- then fucks it up.

Half-elf....GAH. Reasons stated by others.

I definitely have to go with half-giant as the hardest, with muls coming in second. The HG reasons have been stated; it's hard for me to play someone who just doesn't "get it" or have complex thoughts. I'm a plotter and complex thinker.

Muls are difficult for a whole number of reasons, and as the self-proclaimed #1 fan of the race, even I find myself struggling with them from time to time. They have a whole bevy of personality options... it does help, though, that most players do what they ICly would do: use you for your superior stats and ability. Whereas players tend to "be okay" with sorcerers from time to time, which is oftentimes detrimental to the player of the sorcerer--because they should be feared and outcast and reviled, but that isn't being reinforced--you, as a mul, are constantly getting reinforcement that you are a giant, muscled, bred-for-work tool. Everyone wants you... because of what you are, not who.

Quote from: jstorrie on January 17, 2012, 05:25:21 PM
Conversely, the easiest race to play: dorf. All clans love you, your stats are amazing, only bahamets and mekillots can kill you, and you have a documented excuse to powergame all erryday.

You're beating that dead horse again, jstorrie.

Its simply not true.

Quote from: Sunburned on January 18, 2012, 12:49:12 PM

Quote from: jstorrie on January 17, 2012, 05:25:21 PM
Conversely, the easiest race to play: dorf. All clans love you, your stats are amazing, only bahamets and mekillots can kill you, and you have a documented excuse to powergame all erryday.

You're beating that dead horse again, jstorrie.

Its simply not true.

It's totally true.

This feels like bashing on the players of dwarves. It needs to stop.

Quote from: RogueGunslinger on January 18, 2012, 02:03:54 PM

Quote from: Sunburned on January 18, 2012, 12:49:12 PM

Quote from: jstorrie on January 17, 2012, 05:25:21 PM
Conversely, the easiest race to play: dorf. All clans love you, your stats are amazing, only bahamets and mekillots can kill you, and you have a documented excuse to powergame all erryday.

You're beating that dead horse again, jstorrie.

Its simply not true.

It's totally true.

It's a cynical argument though.

Looks like the OP was getting at "Which is the hardest to role-play properly."

Quote from: Talia on January 18, 2012, 02:07:34 PM
This feels like bashing on the players of dwarves. It needs to stop.

Don't know about Jstorrie... But I'm pretty sure we're joking.

I think it depends on what you like. If you like a certain role then you're going to find it a hell of a lot easier to play than others, even though dwarves are easy to employ, I'd find them hard to play just because I'm about as focused as a potato.

BTW potatoes aren't very focused.

Quote from: Talia on January 18, 2012, 02:07:34 PM
This feels like bashing on the players of dwarves. It needs to stop.

I'm bashing the implementation of dwarves in this game. I think the implementation of the race is flawed, both in terms of fluff and crunch. I have no issue with the people who play them, so I do apologize if it read like I was criticizing anyone's play.

Also sorry for derailing, going to stop.

I agree with Synthesis about city elves being incredibly hard to play.

I built up an unclanned city elf merchant about a year and a half ago, and the experience was just really difficult.  And boring.  The inability to freely travel between city states coupled with social ostracization made this an extremely difficult role.

I think my situation with a city elf merchant would have been entirely different, however, had he been in a coded clan -- ideally, a city elf clan.


I'm in agreement with muls being one of the hardest races to play, long term.  Yes, they are codedly powerful, and this may help with short-term survivability; however, I don't think many players are willing to deal with the plethora of negatives that come along with playing a mul.  Especially considering that one flip of the code can cause one to a lose a mul if the proper precautions are not taken.  I would be curious to know how many muls in the history of the entire game have lasted over fifty days.

Quote from: Kronibas on January 18, 2012, 06:22:34 PM
however, I don't think many players are willing to deal with the plethora of negatives that come along with playing a mul.  Especially considering that one flip of the code can cause one to a lose a mul if the proper precautions are not taken.  I would be curious to know how many muls in the history of the entire game have lasted over fifty days.

....

Is mul-rage coded, or are you referring to something else? That would be crazy.

QuoteBeing sterile, and thus outside of the typical chain of reproduction,
muls often suffer from a sense of meaninglessness. This is compounded
when they learn (often too young) that they were born as a tool or
bargaining chip. This tends to make many muls into angry people, full of
distrust and hatred.

Quote from: Cind on January 18, 2012, 06:30:29 PM

Quote from: Kronibas on January 18, 2012, 06:22:34 PM
however, I don't think many players are willing to deal with the plethora of negatives that come along with playing a mul.  Especially considering that one flip of the code can cause one to a lose a mul if the proper precautions are not taken.  I would be curious to know how many muls in the history of the entire game have lasted over fifty days.

....

Is mul-rage coded, or are you referring to something else? That would be crazy.

Very much so.

City elves are hard to play because you aren't accepted and codedly, you have to play to your strengths and guard your weaknesses. However, achieving the elf mindset I think is easier than some of the other non-humans (as long as you don't go super klepto or sociopathic).

Dwarves are hard because it's difficult to make them faceted and interesting. They don't -have- to be automatons.

I found HG's pretty easy to play, actually, but I have seen some great and so not so great ones. I just took mine to the hilt of just...not comprehending much of what others were telling him, and imposing his own schema to things that others told him. The gullibility isn't hard- you just have to be committed to making choices that can get your character in trouble/hoodwinked. Not many players, I don't think, like 'losing', so I think that aspect can be difficult. 

Or going into a rage and killing one of your only friends unintentionally, your rock, the one person who knew how to keep you in check.

...how do you live with yourself after this? Destroying the one thing you love, or that loved you? Also knowing that your entire life was created, you are a monstrosity, a trading token or "dead in the desert" as some of the slaves in the cities might call an escaped mul. There are a lot of reasons why a mul is difficult to play out properly depending on background, and current goals/situation. They can be difficult and watching their up and downs can be trying on the player as well as the character, but also rewarding at times.

Quote from: Bogre on January 19, 2012, 04:29:21 AM
Dwarves are hard because it's difficult to make them faceted and interesting. They don't -have- to be automatons.

It isn't that dwarves don't -have- to be automatons, but rather that they should be far from being automatons.

People tend to get stuck on the single-mindedness aspect of being a dwarf, and assume that all of their actions must make a bee-line for the end goal of their focus. Why?

Instead of doing everything to get to the end goal, they should be weighing each act, opportunity and person they meet against the level of risk vs. benefit toward their focus. Is this person going to help or hinder me toward my end goals? How much? Hinder me to the point where I need to kill them or ignore them?

A dwarf should be as diverse as any other character, only once they make a decision on something and how it will positively or adversely affect their end goal should they be really locked in and become stubborn.

Seriously, all you have to do is be able to justify the actions of the dwarf as that whatever they are doing eventually leads back to being beneficial to their ultimate overarching plan to accomplish their focus. Like, why is the dwarf who wants to be the best fighter in the world picking leaves? Because the girl in the market said if he picked certain ones for her, she would appreciate it. Well, the dwarf knows that to be the best fighter in the world he might need to know a few people who can bandage him back up after some nasty mistakes along the way, and fix his injuries. So he wants this herbalist to like him, since herbalists know healers. So he is out picking some fucking herbs. This is how I see the dwarven focus. It isn't "Well, I want to be the best fighter in the world so I spar as often and as much as possible." It is "I want to be the best fighter in the world, so I need to surround myself with others who will help me be successful in this, like other experienced fighters, healers, and people who can get me the proper equipment that will keep me alive along the way." (Also, this is a poor focus choice in my opinion, as you should probably pick something you can quantify and eventually achieve, but I digress.)

Anyway, long story short- dwarves can be just as interesting and multifaceted as any other character out there.

Quote from: boog on January 17, 2012, 08:20:19 PM
I couldn't ever play a breed, I don't think. Fuck the (inward) melancholy, and the social pariah bullshit. I had enough of that in high school.

Boog, that's what would make you a perfect halfbreed player, is that experience. You could draw on it, add nuance and idiosyncrasy to the character, really define him and it would allow you to inhabit the character. Give it a shot.

Ugh, please...no high-school half-breed bullshit.  There are vastly more serious and interesting conflicts in life than, "Becky didn't sit with me at lunch!"

Quote from: Synthesis on January 19, 2012, 08:44:35 PM
Ugh, please...no high-school half-breed bullshit.  There are vastly more serious and interesting conflicts in life than, "Becky didn't sit with me at lunch!"

Sadly, a majority of the halfbreeds I interact with are this way.

That's why I've never played one. Nooo thanks.

Booohooo you ignored me at the bar I'm gonna go walk into the silt sea now!

I've seen way more good half-elves than bad. But I think they're very hard to play.

Breeds are very difficult to play. Especially when you're trying to play one that doesn't look like a breed, and isn't thought as one. Displaying that conflict between what your character outwardly projects and what he's inwardly thinking and feeling can often times make for very sticky situations that often presents too few of options for interesting character dynamics, that other people might pick up on.

I enjoy playing half-elves and I -despise- the high-school moodiness RP cited by Synthesis.

Both of my long-lived half-elves, Legionaire Zak and Expansion Division Hunter/Byn Sargeant Hawk, expressed their racial dysfunctionality in being hypersensitive to the expectations of their peers.  They were overwhelmingly driven to prove their worth to society, and in some contexts, they excelled at their jobs... but always as minions.  Contrary to more confident races, they weren't driven so much by practical personal ambitions as much as a nonrational desire for approval from the people they respected, along with an earnest desire for "normalcy".  This drove them to be suppressive of any emotions that would elicit acknowledgment of being a lesser; it wasn't until Hawk became a Sargeant in the Byn (something he did out of a desire to fight a battle that belonged to his former bosses) that he began fighting back when people threw insults at him... and even then, it was largely a reluctant effort to protect his perceived image of authority.

I think its difficult to play half-elves without allowing the adolescent archetype to take over, but I that listing a few core consequences of your character's socialization before getting into the world goes a long way for adding depth.

This topic has been discussed many times in the past - as can be expected.

All the races on Zalanthas have their individual pros and cons.

All of them are playable, depending on the mindset and capability of the player.

Polling these choices basically gives us a perception of the preferences of the voters ONLY.

However, the poll in no way conveys the actual difficulty in playing any given race.

Some players find the elven mind-set too tough to handle, others find the Half-Giant mind-set too dumb to RP, others find the generic angst of muls and half-breeds difficult to cope with, while yet others conceive the racial discrimination against elves and half-breeds to be a severe playability handicap.

Having said that, there are always other players who can handle each of these racial roles with ease.

Quite simply put - it just depends from player to player.

The only constant I would pen down is - a plain vanilla Human role - is the easiest to play, from a racial point of view. All the rest of the races have their unique perks and quirks, and you as a player need to decide what you can play comfortably.

Think of it like picking out a vehicle for yourself - there are a lot of choices, and each one has pros and cons: compacts have high maneuverability but lack space, minivans have extra space but low maneuverability, sedans have a mix of all the best categories (I'd equate them to Humans), sports cars have speed, but usually come with a stick-shift, and trucks have very high power, but are bulky and hard to maneuver. Now, you as a driver (player) can definitely drive all these vehicles, but, for the particular ride you're planning (as in role you're planning), you are the best judge to choose the one best suited to your needs.

Mm. Even the human thing's not always a constant. (Ask Cind.) Playing the 'race on top' of society, with all the dizzying possibilities that entails, may be somewhat overwhelming.
"Roleplaying: Human character is as broad as human ability. Virtually any sort of disposition can be found amongst humans, and humans are allowed the greatest latitude in inventing their personalities. For all intents and purposes, a human is able to become whatever he or she wishes to become, without restriction."
That's, well, one less tool you can use to narrow down your character concept. Rather than having a racial and regional culture to reference, humans have only the regional (aside from perhaps a generic sense of privilege).
I often prefer the guidance of a slightly alien mindset and consequently tend to play humans to a somewhat minimal extent.

It always baffles me just a little when I see people say or imply "This is the only way I've seen X played lately."  Unless you're a staffer or possibly a psionicist, there is no way you can know the deeper stuff that is going on.  I know that for me, sometimes the way my characters is outwardly manifesting and what is going on inside their head can be vastly different things.

Quote from: valeria on January 20, 2012, 09:09:54 AM
It always baffles me just a little when I see people say or imply "This is the only way I've seen X played lately."  Unless you're a staffer or possibly a psionicist, there is no way you can know the deeper stuff that is going on.  I know that for me, sometimes the way my characters is outwardly manifesting and what is going on inside their head can be vastly different things.

Yeah, agreed. Some of my characters seem weak (physically, outwardly), but they are basically Jean Claude van Damme's inside their mind.

Quote from: valeria on January 20, 2012, 09:09:54 AM
It always baffles me just a little when I see people say or imply "This is the only way I've seen X played lately."  Unless you're a staffer or possibly a psionicist, there is no way you can know the deeper stuff that is going on.  I know that for me, sometimes the way my characters is outwardly manifesting and what is going on inside their head can be vastly different things.

Sorry. I guess I'm a bad person for not interacting with characters that act like they're aspiring to be on a reality TV show.

Hey, look, bashing on people's roleplay. This thread appears to be headed in a moderation/locking direction. Maybe we don't wanna do that? I dunno, just a thought.

Probably a city elf, for me.

It's less to do with coded stats and more to do with a general understanding of the theiving thing, but sort of feeling like....maybe a race which is on average more intelligent than humanity might also come to the conclusion that you don't shit where you eat. Which can make 'actual' theiving (not loosely defined cheating people, not weaselinf information) a terribly stupid thing to contend with. Especially given the differences in the documentations allusions to them as wanderlusty and the actual coded tribes being so hardcodedly stuck in one place.

I never caught a bit of theiving from them and don't recall their name/sdesc, but I really loved the roleplay behind an elven pc who was around years ago. He seemed a merchanty-type, but he would make regular trips on foot between settlements with a mount packed with wares and he was always interesting to run into.

I know I'm in a minority for loving playing elves. Being discriminated against, depending on all the jillion factors involved, is 92% of the time fun for me as a city-elf and 8% of the time I either don't like it or I can't really react to what they're RPing (out of ideas or something). I think mounts are a horrible bother and I don't usually get a role in which fighting is the foundation, and I _love_ the stealing aspect of their culture, and how rare and truly deep their real loyalty is, and how fecking fast they can run.

Quote from: Kalai on January 20, 2012, 08:42:02 AM
Mm. Even the human thing's not always a constant. (Ask Cind.)

I always forget that people watch pcs quite a bit and I'm not even going to ask. But yes, I distinctly remember playing at least two very challenged human pcs for at least a combined total of a real-life month who would never, ever get anywhere socially who were not 'rinthis, traitors or nonmundanes. I recommend trying it, I had fun with both of them, and if you want a real job the Byn will take you if you didn't go and make a character with no limbs.

Heh, you might've been Cindy42 when you stated that humans were one of the most challenging roles for you.  ;)

Quote from: Kalai on January 20, 2012, 03:02:52 PM
Heh, you might've been Cindy42 when you stated that humans were one of the most challenging roles for you.  ;)

Yeah, its because their advantage makes the game feel a little too easy. You don't have to try like the dickens or get lucky to make it past the second promotion.

Quote from: Cind on January 20, 2012, 03:04:49 PM
Yeah, its because their advantage makes the game feel a little too easy.

QuoteI feel the same way. Why would anyone play a cripple, or an incompetent?

One of my favorite bynners (full human) was a non-combatant class who made sergeant (briefly) and died trying to save the lieutenant from certain death. He was known as the guy who would do supposedly incredibly stupid stuff because he was fearless. Like, when we had to climb down a cliff to check out a wreck, he said "Sure, I will manage. Anyone have any rope?"

But in a straight-up fight that is 90% of status among bynners, he was a one-hit wonder. The bad way. And he was trying his hardest, he just did not have any talent in that direction.

I can completely see playing a halfbreed or a sharp just because it is tougher. Or a character who cannot speak, to one extent or another.

For me, the two races I have never played by choice are elves and dwarves. The mind-set is just too different for me. Dwarves are not enjoyable because I play Arm to get away from being an obsessed perfectionist. Elves...well, I just do not enjoy stealing. I find it stressful, even IG.

I suppose that is a failing of mine in my RP range.

Quote from: Is Friday on January 20, 2012, 02:08:31 PM

Quote from: valeria on January 20, 2012, 09:09:54 AM
It always baffles me just a little when I see people say or imply "This is the only way I've seen X played lately."  Unless you're a staffer or possibly a psionicist, there is no way you can know the deeper stuff that is going on.  I know that for me, sometimes the way my characters is outwardly manifesting and what is going on inside their head can be vastly different things.

Sorry. I guess I'm a bad person for not interacting with characters that act like they're aspiring to be on a reality TV show.

I don't even know how you drew that conclusion from what I said.  I wasn't directing any statement at you personally.  Also, you're perfectly welcome to have your character not interact with people that act in ways that your character would not want to interact with.

What I was actually saying is that blanket statements like "Dwarves are only played like X" or "Half-elves are only played like X" don't make any sense for a variety of reasons.  Mostly because, unless someone is a psionicist or staff, she's never going to be able to get into another character's head, especially if you're giving them cursory treatment.  Second, again unless she's on staff, a person's sample size is going to be limited to what she's playing around.  Third, when people are approaching people, situations, or in this case other characters with prejudice, they're is more likely to pay attention for that trait they're looking for, and pay a whole lot less attention to everything else.

I see these really broad generalizations cropping up from time to time in different contexts... and that's all they are.  Generalizations, and based on limited perspectives.  There is simply no way most people know what's going on under the surface, even if they have seen three half-elves crying in corners in bars in their general area.

Yes yes, generalizations are not always 100% true. But they don't become stero-types unless they're either true enough that enough people see the same thing ... or just really funny.

Does every dwarf player not know where the CAPS key is on their keyboard? No not every one. Just a big enough bunch to make it worth pointing out.

Does every half-giant act like a retard trying to be comedy relief but suddenly gets really smart when they're being taken advantage of? Nope. But enough have to make it an observation of more than a handful of players.

That's how these generalizations get started. No one really thinks they're absolute blanket statements. Right?

>_>
<_<

It kind of gets old and it can be disheartening to people playing those roles, even if it isn't meant to be. And that can make the game not fun.

I think half-elves are the hardest race to play. They're hated and a lot of them are supposed to act like fuckwits. I think it's hard to get it just right without starting to dislike yourself too.

Also it's completely worthless to bring up on the forums.

I'm so surprised people find it hard to play Celves. Personally, I need to remind myself that I'm not playing an elf and I should stop acting like one with ... whoever I am playing.



PS:I gotta change my keyboard, ugh. half the buttons dont work. Then again, the keyboard is 8 years old and endured 3 of my PCs.

Quote from: Dar on January 20, 2012, 11:58:15 PM
I'm so surprised people find it had to play Celves. Personally, I need to remind myself that I'm not playing an elf and I should stop acting like one with ... whoever I am playing.

I think it's hardest because elves are very difficult to play without a solid, coded tribe since it's pretty hard to have close, trusted friends without one.

the less friends you got, the more people you can screw with. You do not have to 'trust' people to play with them.

Quote from: Yam on January 21, 2012, 12:22:35 AM

Quote from: Dar on January 20, 2012, 11:58:15 PM
I'm so surprised people find it had to play Celves. Personally, I need to remind myself that I'm not playing an elf and I should stop acting like one with ... whoever I am playing.

I think it's hardest because elves are very difficult to play without a solid, coded tribe since it's pretty hard to have close, trusted friends without one.

There are also coded C-elf tribes in both cities who take on 'associates'.

I will now attempt to play every race to the hilt, and master them, one and all.  Imms, I will need more karma.  Players, I will need you to kill my PC.

That is all

(Seriously, though, I don't know why human is on this list.  And two people voted ...  Mine are dwarf and city-elf, because if you can play either well, then you're tops in my book)

The hardest race I've ever had to play was Dragon.

Half-Giants. Really hard to play something that simple minded

For me, I would say Dwarves, Muls and Half-giants.

Dwarves - I could never personally put myself into the mindset needed to be on such a determined foci. Never played one.

Muls - I imagine the 'going into a rage at everything' urges would be... Difficult for me to roleplay accordingly. Never played one.

Half-Giant - Being ICly stupid while being OOCly smart, for me, poses a problem. Never played one.

Fortunately, being OOC stupid, half giants are easy for me to play.

Half-giant is my first, I enjoy playing them short term but I don't like playing the gullible sort without someone making proper use of it. It's hard to play dumb indefinitely.

Half-elves being my second, the mindset is tough for me.

In retrospect, I imagine I would play an alright mul, mainly because I've played a few humans who were nutty enough in the head to be similar to Muls. Not the same of course, but similar. At the same time, the constant gnawing worry that I am not reacting the way a Mul would've reacted prevented me from rolling one up so far. Same with Half Giants, I do not feel myself capable of portraying one properly and so ... I try not to.

i imagine I would play an exceptional dwarf. Mainly because a lot of my human and elven characters tend to have that one track mind, the methodical, relentless work towards their goals. Unfortunately I've witnessed so many dwarves do very silly things to improve themselves codedly and then explain it with their focus, it turned me away from the idea. So I never played one. Although I've also known some dwarves who have done things that were unbelievably risky, boring, irl fun unrewarding, complicated, demanding, and clearly suicidal (if one were to use ooc knowledge) only because their focus dictated the need for those deeds, I am in awe of some particular dwarves I've witnessed.

How to play a HG: pretend you're married, and your wife is the world.

So wheres the halfling option?

Quote from: Majikal on January 22, 2012, 09:27:49 PM
Half-giant is my first, I enjoy playing them short term but I don't like playing the gullible sort without someone making proper use of it. It's hard to play dumb indefinitely.

That's the key to the role, I've found.  I've only played one HG that I think went very well and it's because there were other players with pc's that took full advantage of my monstrosity, even if they weren't overly fond the HG himself.  My pc would ask these manipulators about absolutely everything in his life, very little self-direction.  'What should I wear?' 'what should I do?', 'I have that guy you don't like unconcious, should I kill him?  I'm really scared and mad and I don't know what to do.'


Once the right player gets the idea that you are actually playing your HG as a dimwit that can't think for himself, and is more than willing to let others do the thinking for him, it can be a great role.  If players around you don't take advantage of it though, can be very boring and that is what makes the role tough.

Mul.

For the many reasons stated above.

Random rage and you end up killing your own mount (or getting killed by it) in early game stages.

Interaction can be difficult to acquire and often limited, most people are simply going to mount;
e; e; e; e; e; e as soon as you enter their room. Anyone who reacts to your character's hardcoded
instability reasonably will likely only offer a limited amount of interaction opportunities.

You're probably going to play in a low-population area of the game, these can be hard to make
the most of unless you have strong play hours available to coordinate with other isolationists.

In later game stages you run the risk of one-shotting an ally on accident if a rage hits.

City Elves in Allanak seem tough to me but that's more based on how awkward it is for me
to play an extended period of time in the 'rinth for a character who culture wise isn't suppose
to leave it often. Plot Lines always seem to be little more than who is on the hit list at the time
and should you get wealthy (hard not to with so many newbie boots lying around) your IC
documentation will keep you from leaving. There's no particularly useful goods in said game
region to compete over/trade and I had a hard time finding stuff to spend my coin on or
finding stuff for 'rinth based hirelings to do without sending them outside the alleys. I definitely
hit a wall playing my city elf.

I've always found city-elves hard to play, there's times when I'm playing elves and I feel as though I'm playing a dwarf with a focus to become the greatest thief in a very sterotypical cartoon badguy fashion.

Though I like playing apatahetic elves, or ones who pride themselves on how mellow they are.

And breeds, I feel as though the character should be sulky and depressing but there's times where I've gone so long without seeing another PC that I'm kind of desperate to secure future interactions.

I would say desert elfs. You literally have 90% of your interaction with tribe-mates and hope and pray they too are interested in interacting with you.

That's just my observation though.

Quote from: janeshephard on February 02, 2012, 01:01:09 PM
I would say desert elfs. You literally have 90% of your interaction with tribe-mates and hope and pray they too are interested in interacting with you.

That's just my observation though.

Yeah. And the survival rate ...

Well, if you're a fuckwit moron with combat like me. 8)

Delves are the easiest to survive with and all you have to do is mudsex a lot to be considered kosher over there.

Quote from: Is Friday on February 04, 2012, 07:03:44 AM
Delves are the easiest to survive with and all you have to do is mudsex a lot to be considered kosher over there.

Are you confusing desert elves with House Kaidus again?

I tried to play a dwarf once. I decided after about 30 minutes that there was no way the dwarf mindset was going to work and said NOPE.

Quote from: musashi on February 04, 2012, 07:05:52 AM
Are you confusing desert elves with House Kaidus again?

You mudsex in Kadius in order to get the karma to mudsex as a delf, obvs.

I found Bahamet hard to play. All that roving and grazing. And then you have to insta-trample anything that enters your room, I have to type it all out, I don't use prompts.

...Alright. I found dwarves quite akward for me. For many reasons stated above. My own unique one is that I see their focus in a completely different perspective from most.

Half elves are pretty easy for me.  I usually play up either a desire for acceptance or a self reliance bordering on the paranoid.  My own mind set is a hard nosed ability to soldier on, even if there is a lack of acceptance, so it is no problem.

Dwarves are amoungst my favorites, despite only having played a very few of them.  A focus is an excellent guide for roleplay and code improvement.  Having ADD, one of my very obvious symptoms is Hyper Focus, where I zoom in on one particular detail to the exclusion sometimes of all other stimuli, to the point of irritation if someone talks to me (Or my own body when I have to pause a project to eat or use the restroom.)

City Elves just represent constriction to me.  Despite your focus being very narrow for a dwarf, two dwarves with the same focus will go about it in different ways.  This means dwarves, though driven, still have alot of individualized freedom.  City Elves can't go outside, can't join nearly any clan in the game, and don't trust outsiders, so finding a place to be an insider given the afore mentioned restrictions is very tough.  Even a half elf gets a chance to try and do anything if they can be self reliant enough to soldier on despite a little racism holding them back temporarily.

Half Giants have a wealth of opportunity to them, but I haven't yet garnered the Karma to play one so i can only say from observation that they seem like an easy enough race for me to play.  The idea of being a rather sadistic half giant appeals to me, as does one who was often manipulated by elves and taught to say a few key phrases that would throw off those who might try to manipulate him and still leave him vulnerable to abuse by his "sponsors."

Muls do sound very rough to play, as acceptance and meaningful interaction is just about nil.

I will say, Breeds are exceptionally fun to play.

From what little I know about the various races and how they're expected and/or coded to role/play, half-giants definitely sound like they'd be the hardest for me personally. The low intelligence would be a hard standard for me to keep to or at least do justice. I'd probably wind up speaking in exaggerated hulk-speak or else risk coming off as too smart.

Quote from: BadSkeelz on April 18, 2012, 03:47:29 PM
From what little I know about the various races and how they're expected and/or coded to role/play, half-giants definitely sound like they'd be the hardest for me personally. The low intelligence would be a hard standard for me to keep to or at least do justice. I'd probably wind up speaking in exaggerated hulk-speak or else risk coming off as too smart.

That's perfect.

The hulk speak is actually not. Half-giants aren't retarded. They're just exceptionally dim. They copy the people around them that they deem their friends. This does not mean that they are life-long, loyal friends. They are flip-floppy and whimsical.

QuoteWhat Characterizes Half-Giant Stupidity?

It is easier to start off with what DOESN'T characterize a half-giant's stupidity. A common trend in the past has been to portray half-giants as speaking like Tarzan does in popular movies. While this is a player's prerogative, it is not particularly accurate. A half-giant is very observant to the habits of others, and prone to imitating them. There is no place where a half-giant would have picked up such bizarre speaking patterns, so it doesn't make much sense to have them.

http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/halfgiantsocial.html (http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/halfgiantsocial.html)

Great information for anyone wanting to play a half-giant.

That.. Really does look cool. If only they weren't such high karma  :-\

Quote from: Patuk on April 19, 2012, 07:38:27 AM
That.. Really does look cool. If only they weren't such high karma  :-\

Even if you have no karma, you may put in a special app for something within 3 karma points of your position.  0 + 3 = 3, so you could special app a half-giant.  There's no guarantee it would be approved, but if you have a good app and a good grasp of the mindset of the role and the gameworld, that would be in your favor.

I need to play another HG.

I have more years of having kids to now draw upon for inspiration.

Quote from: Twilight on April 19, 2012, 04:30:49 PM
I need to play another HG.

I have more years of having kids to now draw upon for inspiration.

Except HG's probably never ask, "Why?".  ;D

Actually, I think my HG will repeatedly ask why.  Even when you just told him why.

And then squish you when you become so frustrated with him you attack him.

Quote from: Twilight on April 19, 2012, 08:25:06 PM
Actually, I think my HG will repeatedly ask why.  Even when you just told him why.

And then squish you when you become so frustrated with him you attack him.

That makes me want to make a HG version of that really annoying NPC in Baldur's Gate... following around, impossible to get rid of, always asking stupid questions.

Quote from: Akaramu on April 20, 2012, 05:24:47 AM

That makes me want to make a HG version of that really annoying NPC in Baldur's Gate... following around, impossible to get rid of, always asking stupid questions.

Norbet, I think his name was?

Quote from: BleakOne on April 20, 2012, 07:02:38 AM
Norbet, I think his name was?

Noober.

Quote from: spicemustflow on April 20, 2012, 07:30:22 AM

Quote from: BleakOne on April 20, 2012, 07:02:38 AM
Norbet, I think his name was?

Noober.

That's it! Good memory. Spice.

Click on him enough and you get +5 sling stones.

I voted dwarf.

The restricted style of playing them is nicely compensated with strong statistics. Dwarves are hardy and survive well, but not to the same degree as muls or half giants, so I don't feel the guilt of "easy mode" in terms of survival. However, they are locked in to set goals and thinking patterns by the rules, which feels stifling to me. It just doesn't fit my natural personality, which is far more half-elven or elven.

So even though dwarves are tough and make the survival experience more gratifying in a way, roleplaying is the focus of my arma experience and I struggle with them when I do decide to roll one up.

dwarf, half-giant and elf are all pretty difficult. they're all easily abused (meaning I've seen more than a few who tend to skirt or skate over the docs).

I'm tempted to actually make a list of PC's who I've run into in the 2 years I've played arm that were -really- well RP'd. Kind of like as examples of those (in my opinion) that are watermarks for RP and those races. Some were in the last year or so, so maybe I'll wait a bit longer and post it. But for as many awful HG's I've seen, I've found a few that were amazing. Same with dwarves, d-elves and half-elves. Mul's are hard to gauge as they're so rare. Some I've seen have been flat. Others have been really O_o amazing.

It's stupid easy to become an invincible desert templar as a tribal elf.

Quote from: Jingo on May 04, 2012, 11:31:10 AM
It's stupid easy to become an invincible desert templar as a tribal elf.

i'd beg to differ.

Quote from: Jingo on May 04, 2012, 11:31:10 AM
It's stupid easy to become an invincible desert templar as a tribal elf.

(http://i.imgur.com/o5Uzh.png)

:)

Go give it a shot, let me know how easy it is.

Quote from: Nyr on May 04, 2012, 03:18:03 PM
Go give it a shot, let me know how easy it is.

Some part of me wants to do this, just so I can see how Nyr punishes hubris.

Quote from: Jingo on May 04, 2012, 11:31:10 AM
It's stupid easy to become an invincible desert templar as a tribal elf.

I've seen this too many times to even pretend it's not true.

While other races might be more difficult to play at times, desert elves are the most abused of the races, it feels like. Especially when you get the one badass who gets too big for their sandbox and suddenly turns the desert to crap for many people. It seems like there's often as not at least one of these.

Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on May 04, 2012, 03:26:43 PM

Quote from: Jingo on May 04, 2012, 11:31:10 AM
It's stupid easy to become an invincible desert templar as a tribal elf.

I've seen this too many times to even pretend it's not true.

The examples of one PC actually doing this are actually few and far between, and if it is done unrealistically or ridiculously, there are consequences that are met.  We're talking about projection of power to the extent that the PC may as well be a templar, yes?  That is what I thought, at least.  An occurrence (or even a few occurrences) of a desert elf PKing or raiding your PC doesn't make this particular snippet true (it does make your PC dead or raided, though).

Quote
While other races might be more difficult to play at times, desert elves are the most abused of the races, it feels like.

When I think of "most abused of the races," I do think of a race that starts with a "d," but the next letter is a "w."

Quote
Especially when you get the one badass who gets too big for their sandbox and suddenly turns the desert to crap for many people. It seems like there's often as not at least one of these.

It may seem like this, but there usually isn't.  See above on the PKing and raiding.

I find humans hardest to play cause there's no racial guidelines. ;D

Quote from: Nyr on May 04, 2012, 03:41:38 PM

Quote
While other races might be more difficult to play at times, desert elves are the most abused of the races, it feels like.

When I think of "most abused of the races," I do think of a race that starts with a "d," but the next letter is a "w."

Hahahahah!

I still think half giants must be he hardest to play, most players want their PC's to become important in some fashion if they become long lived, I would imagine anyway. Having to reconcile that you'll always be a simple minded tool to be manipulated till your dying breath must be difficult to stick with.

Quote from: musashi on May 04, 2012, 07:47:56 PM

Quote from: Nyr on May 04, 2012, 03:41:38 PM

Quote
While other races might be more difficult to play at times, desert elves are the most abused of the races, it feels like.

When I think of "most abused of the races," I do think of a race that starts with a "d," but the next letter is a "w."

Hahahahah!

There's dwemer in arm?! :o

Quote from: Nyr on May 04, 2012, 03:41:38 PM
It may seem like this, but there usually isn't.  See above on the PKing and raiding.

I can affirm this from the fact that everyone panics the moment a raider comes along.

Quote from: Dalmeth on May 04, 2012, 07:57:04 PM

Quote from: Nyr on May 04, 2012, 03:41:38 PM
It may seem like this, but there usually isn't.  See above on the PKing and raiding.

I can affirm this from the fact that everyone panics the moment a raider comes along.

Which is more than likely another point in the favor of "elves are hard to play."

I dunno, I don't think that desert elves are "invincible Templars of the desert" but, they don't seem to be very difficult to play either.

What's particularly hard about being an elf aside from the isolation that comes with any iso role (when speaking of the desert variety)?

QuoteGo give it a shot, let me know how easy it is.

I did do it before. I just didn't turn him into a stand-offish policeman that threatened everyone that passed through.

Edit: For what it's worth, I'm glad staff is at least monitoring it. But when I was playing my last Desert Elf, I would have decried some of the current behaviors as basically inviting the destruction of his clan.

edit: removed cause I felt like it.

I've never played a Desert Elf before, but from the outside it looks like they are just really scary to the average PC on an IC and OOC level for many coded reasons I won't go into.

I'm quite thankful, however, that I've never met a Desert Elf who wasn't excellently RPed. I've never had the misfortune of the "lolz I'm a delf raider, ur in my turf" arrow of insta-death that I sometimes hear about. All the desert elves I've met gave me plenty of opportunity to show proper respect and/or grovel for my pitiful existance.

So, keep it up, Delfs who I have met. Good RPing and not killing me is fun!  :D  

I always chuckle at this idea that desert tribes (elves or otherwise) should not be territorial because it might result in the destruction of their tribe. Seems based on the false assumption that city states give a shit about their nameless commoner citizens who go wandering away from the walls. I can't imagine a Templar caring that Amos got raided while hunting in lands far removed from the city.

I wonder why this assumption never forms the basis for people to complain when they get attacked by gith, or NPC rinth-rats from the east side, or halflings back when we had them, or gypsies when you cross the skull markers ...  ::)

Quote from: musashi on May 04, 2012, 09:37:32 PM
I always chuckle at this idea that desert tribes (elves or otherwise) should not be territorial because it might result in the destruction of their tribe. Seems based on the false assumption that city states give a shit about their nameless commoner citizens who go wandering away from the walls. I can't imagine a Templar caring that Amos got raided while hunting in lands far removed from the city.

I imagine they wouldn't. It's if that random person was a respected Merchant House hunter, or if a wealthy merchant paid a Templar to start caring, or if the raiding became common enough to inconvience the nobility in any way (like increasing the price of wood, or making certain pelts more expensive and rare) that the cities would start to care.

Yes, but I'm pretty darn sure that is not the kind of situation that anyone is talking about. If you're playing a respected GMH hunter and you're hunting in lands known to be claimed by a territorial tribe, you're probably disobeyIng some orders from your leadership about where you're supposed to be hunting.

Being territorial is one thing. Claiming a stretch of land much larger than your territory should be is bullshit and should result in some smackdown by others. Also when the ones that tend to do this, go hunt outside of their lands and don't expect to be kicked down in return. Other tribes even should smack one tribe down for doing so because it impedes their trade and reputations with others. But this is off topic. On topic, with the exception of desert elf characters doing the above example, I think they're fairly easy to play.

When that happens, staff come in and animate the virtual world  ;)
Again, I don't think that's what's being talked about.

tl;dr: players bitch when you take their virtual stuff.

tl;dr;dr: players hate letting their characters "lose".

tl;tl;dr;dr: players hate when they don't get away with stupid shit.

D-elves are fine.

Mush has it nailed and people are oversensitive.

D-elves, least the iso ones are hard to play. Their docs are very strict and are easily (but hopefully not) broken. In terms of making a d-elf into some super templar of the sands, its also not easy, not without consequence, and often exaggerated by those who have no idea what is actually going on with the tribe or RP they're involved in.

No matter. HG's are hard to play. Would love to play one but it would be so easy to skirt the "I have to be stupid and easily gullible.".. As I've seen many do in the past.

Odd thought: I wish Staff could tell us how many dwarves out of that race played have had a focus of or nearly as: "To become to the best hunter / fighter"...

Dwarves aren't hard to make faceted. Just don't pick an esoteric, one sided focus.

Dwarves with Exploring, medical, Combat, or Raiding focuses tend to work best in my experience.

It isn't hard to "play dwarves well" but it is hard to enjoy RPing them for extended periods in my opinion, owing to their focus driven nature.

Just my two sids.

I've come to the conclusion that I'd probably have the most difficulty properly RPing a Mul or a Breed. All races have straightforward perks to play with - be it the strong foci of dwarves, the tribal and thieving mindsets of elves, or half-giants, whose very FP is thinking in straightforward manners in the first place. To deal with the torn minds and emotional constitution of a mul or a breed would be far more difficult than any of that.

I've played a lot of breeds and I haven't found the mindset that hard to get into, though I admit I stayed clear of the emo emotional roller coaster side of things because I, personally, can't stand that stuff.

I typically opt to express the half-elven mindset of struggling for acceptance vs independence by vigorously seeking out close friends and/membership into organizations .... then ditching them once they finally accept me.

I've never played a Half-elf before, but I from what I read about them, I'd highly recommend looking into "A Boy and His Dog" by Harlan Ellison.  Vic (at least in the early part of the story) remind me of the Half-elves. But I've only read the short story.


As for the most difficult, I haven't strayed far from humans, but probably Dwarves, as their focus makes them pretty alien to our minds. And probably City Elves. Or maybe Elves in general. I've seen some people play it half-correct, some people play it very close, but don't act like one, etc. and the list goes on. But to be an Elf is pretty damn hard, and you won't make friends too easily beyond your tribe. And chances are, you probably wouldn't call that guy in the Gaj who called you a "Filthy necker" a snivelling roundear and threaten them. Because fuck, who is the Templarate going to favor? But of course, if they piss your character off enough you could always take care of them later. I see City Elves as being a people who are used to the racism, but aren't going to stand for it if the person is out of place, or really consistently doing it, and will try something well outside of the public eye.

Half-Elves are great, because there's a lot of leeway with their traits.

A great way to approach it:  "I'm independent, so I'm going to use these people to my advantage (But, really, deep down, I want to be accepted, and have a group to back me up).  But seriously.  I'm in control.  (Not really, it's sort of a group dynamic and I'm often fooling myself)."

Remaining anon. lol

I say dwarves, I have never played one because the idea of a focus intimidates me.

I have no idea how to tackle it.

Half giant however, I find -very- easy. I love playing these and wish I was able to play them more frequently.

Dwarfs. They're very much flash-in-pan roles to me, moreso than Half-Giants. Half-Giants are easy to me; I find filling the role of a lackey is fun to me, especially one who needs to be babysat (I'm a bit of a troll - if you don't make things explicit to me, I will make it bite you on the ass).

Muls. Hands down.

Hunting you down and killing/force storing you is a mini-game for the rest of the player base entertains themselves with.

Half-elf is probably the easiest one for me. I just need to not take my meds for a day and I can rock them awesome!

Dwarf would be the hardest.. Bald..? *shivers at the thought*

This is an old thread but I was reading it recently and liked it!

Humans..
I think the "lesser" races are easier to play because they have some very nice guidelines to base your character around from the start. 

I think the reason why elves are hard is mostly OOC reasons of just frequently being a solitary role.
Half-elves can get rather emotional to play for a long stretch of time.

But still I am going with Humans!
I actually think I have not played a human since coming back from playing here.

Halflings.

Dwarves. No hair.

dorfs. focus is a killer for me, although my ooc focus is to repeatedly squash the entire pbase into a bunch of mushy insects, i can't translate that to a dwarf without it being fucking ridiculous.

seriously, who wants a dwarf running amok whose focus is "slaughter thousands of humans, half-elves, humans, elves, half-giants, muls" WITHOUT GETTING CAUGHT EVER DOING IT? Or "The dwarf whose focus is to collect one of every stone AND have them in his possession"

Then he believes hisf ocus is done, right? Only the imms added these neat new gems and stones to the game...

How many dwarves promptly went psychotic when they realized they'd never actually completed the focus?

Half-giants; I find it hard to rp their mindset for long periods of time.

That said, there have been some really amazing half-giants around lately, tempting me to reconsider.

I think that the hardest race to play is the one that the player doesn't wish to play. Though often when they suddenly grow weary of playing the others and role up a pc of the race the don't want to the find it eventually satisfying. Mostly do to having to once again think, and also to experience a new viewpoint on the game.

I want to play a Mul very much. But I still think it is the hardest one to play and still fear I would not be able to portray the mul appropriately to play it.

Quote from: Rhyden on November 26, 2012, 04:29:32 PM
Half-giants; I find it hard to rp their mindset for long periods of time.

That said, there have been some really amazing half-giants around lately, tempting me to reconsider.

Half-giants are really hard to keep the balance I think. I struggle with playing an appropriately mentally challenged character without just resorting to 'comic relief' style stupidity, and it is hard. Pop culture gives us so few role models for half-giants :P

As a rather stupid person, I find Half-Giants very easy to play!

:P

Quote from: Ami on November 28, 2012, 12:58:02 PM
As a rather stupid person, I find Half-Giants very easy to play!

:P

+1.

Dorf. Foci are odd, and fairly game driving, which is hard for me.

Dwarves are all about making lists, and following them point-by-bullet-point.

Right?

Because if that's the case, I basically am a dwarf IRL.

Quote from: Wolfsong on November 30, 2012, 05:36:22 PM
Dwarves are all about making lists, and following them point-by-bullet-point.

Right?

Because if that's the case, I basically am a dwarf IRL.

I hope you don't have to justify to yourself why a bathroom break will help you achieve your next bullet point before you take one IRL.

 :-\

Also, Wolfsong, you are very short.

Short is relative.

I would tend to think half elves are difficult to play, elves are a bit "us vs them" with a gypsy sense of ownership.

Humans are pretty straight forward, but breeds aren't a blend of both, they're something wierd from what I have seen.

I tend to play humans, I think in 8 roles I have played one stump who lasted about 2 days before I got bored and stupid.

Half-elves aren't -that- hard to play. I've known quite a few humans with breedlike characteristics. Just take those aspects and exaggerate them. IMO, there's nothing really alien about a breed--they're just people with a certain complex that kind of dominates their lives. Dwarves, on the other hand...I doubt I'll ever be able to play one.

The most difficult thing about playing dwarves is that when their focus points them in a direction you know will end in death, you have to let them go.

Played correctly, every race is harder to play than human, just in different ways.

Quote from: Synthesis on December 06, 2012, 09:22:39 PM
The most difficult thing about playing dwarves is that when their focus points them in a direction you know will end in death, you have to let them go.

Not sure this is true.  Dwarves have a sense of self preservation.  Can't finish your focus if you're dead, after all.

I think he's referencing the player knowing that this is gonna get the dwarf killed, but the dwarf does not know it.

That's the vibe I got, too.

Well that's the case for characters of any race, no?

OOC: That NPC will so kill my ass.
Human: "Trying to ride that Roc is probably suicidal and I shouldn't do it."
Dwarf: "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IF I JUST TRY HARDER." / mount roc

Quote from: Marauder Moe on December 06, 2012, 11:03:13 PM

Quote from: Synthesis on December 06, 2012, 09:22:39 PM
The most difficult thing about playing dwarves is that when their focus points them in a direction you know will end in death, you have to let them go.

Not sure this is true.  Dwarves have a sense of self preservation.  Can't finish your focus if you're dead, after all.

It's hard to have a reliable sense of self-preservation when your sense of fear is blunted.  Also, dwarves aren't supposed to be able to think quickly on their feet, so if the situation suddenly changes from benign to dangerous, most of them will continue on to do what they planned on doing.  If a dwarf's focus involves following orders, he will follow orders no matter what, whereas a human has the option to desert.  I doubt this is the thread for a dwarven roleplay debate, though.

Quote from: Wolfsong on December 07, 2012, 12:09:45 AM
OOC: That NPC will so kill my ass.
Human: "Trying to ride that Roc is probably suicidal and I shouldn't do it."
Dwarf: "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IF I JUST TRY HARDER." / mount roc

I hate dwarven foci like this.  I've heard mentioned on the GDB: "fly to the moon,"  "become a dragon" "destroy a city"

And while Ironsword probably had some good fun before he kicked it, there are plenty of mundane foci that are attainable, survivable and fun.
I prefer discrete, easy measurable foci that lead up to larger and larger foci.  "get recruited into the Byn"  "become trooper"  "become the best swords man in my unit"  "make sergeant"  "earn 5 large in contract profits"  "earn 10 large in contract profits"  "kill a mek all by myself."

That kind of thing.  This "flying to the moon" or mounting a roc BS is stupid (IMO, hope I didn't put too fine a point on it).  It seems that a dwarf (judging from what I read in the docs) might be practical, grounded group of folks - more taken with tangible results rather than flights of fancy.

Dwarf: I've encountered two dwarves in as many years that didn't immediately give me the impression they just wanted to skill up and kill things. Funny enough, both of them are both incredibly badass AND quite long lived.

City elf: Sorry, but other then a certain Byn Trooper and a 'rinther I encountered when I first started playing, I've never met one that really delivered more then a human in an elf body.

As a bit of an aside, to whomever played that wildly skanky 'rinth elf about two and a half years ago, the scrawny blonde elf or scraggly blond elf, something to that effect. You pretty much set the standard in my mind for what elves should be, not to mention helping me figure out how to find the bazaar and how to get back to the Byn compound. Your character had a huge impact on the life of that character, the trials and tribal stuff, so... legacy and such.

I would shower you with kudos but I can't for the life of me remember your characters name. Instead you get a mention in a recently resurrected thread you likely won't even read. It's the thought that counts, right?

PS: She knew you stole the dagger, you just died before she could steal it back. You fooled no one! ;)

Quote from: DustMight on April 25, 2013, 10:04:50 AM

Quote from: Wolfsong on December 07, 2012, 12:09:45 AM
OOC: That NPC will so kill my ass.
Human: "Trying to ride that Roc is probably suicidal and I shouldn't do it."
Dwarf: "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IF I JUST TRY HARDER." / mount roc

I hate dwarven foci like this.  I've heard mentioned on the GDB: "fly to the moon,"  "become a dragon" "destroy a city"

And while Ironsword probably had some good fun before he kicked it, there are plenty of mundane foci that are attainable, survivable and fun.
I prefer discrete, easy measurable foci that lead up to larger and larger foci.  "get recruited into the Byn"  "become trooper"  "become the best swords man in my unit"  "make sergeant"  "earn 5 large in contract profits"  "earn 10 large in contract profits"  "kill a mek all by myself."

That kind of thing.  This "flying to the moon" or mounting a roc BS is stupid (IMO, hope I didn't put too fine a point on it).  It seems that a dwarf (judging from what I read in the docs) might be practical, grounded group of folks - more taken with tangible results rather than flights of fancy.

Dwarven focus don't have to make sense. They can be wildly crazy and it fit with the docs. In fact, the more bizarre and harder to accomplish the better, because a focus should be almost unachievable. Joining the Byn, making Trooper or 5 large are too easy and short-lived for foci.

Quote from: Scarecrow on April 25, 2013, 06:29:14 PM
Dwarven focus don't have to make sense. They can be wildly crazy and it fit with the docs. In fact, the more bizarre and harder to accomplish the better, because a focus should be almost unachievable. Joining the Byn, making Trooper or 5 large are too easy and short-lived for foci.

Well, maybe. The docs (that I just checked) do support some near-impossible (bring down Luir's) and silly-ass (insult everyone in the known world) foci, but I do remember getting a note from staff thanking me for having a reasonable foci (become a sergeant in the black moon - if you recall way back when) and that likely encouraged me to stay practical.

That said, most of my characters play practical, so it is probably just my taste.

The point about the foci that I mentioned (get in the byn, become sarge, earn 5k in contracts) are small foci that are achievable (making it enjoyable for the player - cause you know you're never going to fly to Lirathu - and build up to an amazing foci.  Something like maybe the dwarf who started the Byn had in mind.   

I like foci that can be accomplished in game but may be exceptionally difficult and/or far-fetched. Things like: commit every crime in spectacular fashion or creating a salt-worm ranch in Gol-Krathu. Technically, you could find some way to accomplish bits and pieces of those. I generally go for things with coded support rather than needing immortal intervention.

A long time ago I played a dwarf whose focus was 'Don't let anyone ever forget you're a dwarf'. Personality and emotion-based foci are fun and easy to do, and don't require any Imm help at all!

Breeds are easy mode for me.  :o

Quote from: Zoan on April 26, 2013, 07:40:38 PM
A long time ago I played a dwarf whose focus was 'Don't let anyone ever forget you're a dwarf'. Personality and emotion-based foci are fun and easy to do, and don't require any Imm help at all!

If I ever make a dwarf, maybe my foci should be to make a dwarf brothel.

If you make it happen, I'll roll a dwarf to work there.

Focus: Collect all the human midgets in the Known and instruct them in the proper ways of dorfs and mirrukim.

Alternate point challenge: Make them tdesc beards and use chopping weapons.

Bonus +++ points: Make them journeyman+ stonecrafters.

   I remember one of my first characters was a dwarf. I actually liked the idea of a focus to guide me.  I made him with a focus to become a master armor crafter and picked the armor crafting sub-guild. At the time I didn't know I could not master the skill either, so it become kind of interesting when he knew he hit a brick wall and could not make the perfect creations that he imagined. He eventually rationalized that he would experience armors in the most direct way possible that not many other crafters could attempt. He thought by personally testing his armor creations against as many blows, cuts, stabs and beasts imaginable would allow him to finally understand the perfect recipe for padding, flexibility and where to reinforce the armor. Fortunately for that character, his stats were the once in a hundred sort. Taking down all those dangerous beasts was definitely fun.
   But yea, I think you just have to try your best to pick focus over OOC benefit/whim and you will probably play a decent dwarf. Like, hey chance for easy coin by taking this Byn Sergeant promotion, or taking on that recruit crafter position in Salarr. Whats that? Crafting? Salarr? Yes please.

The only non-human I've played in my short career as an Arm player was a half-elf ranger. I wanted to learn about racial roleplay, and figured this archetype would fit that role well. The absolute last thing I think anyone would describe my character as, though, was weak-willed. She was outgoing, loud, brave to a fault, especially given she was only a little skilled. But, I don't think I played against my race, or tried to be 'the exception to the rule.' In fact, I don't think the docs should imply I should be angsty at all.

Half-elves, to my understanding, were independent, and if they were known breeds (I chose to appear as a half-elf, because why play another race if you want to be treated like a human?), they would be WELL used to discrimination by then. But should I be expected to whine about it? Fuck no. I'm not some entitled teenager in first world America. I'm a well-hated (but clearly not the most-hated) minority who simultaneously seeks the approval of both races, but also keeps them a bit at a distance. That means, given that no one particularly likes me, and I'm independent, I am by NECESSITY a strong enough person to overcome the challenges of Zalanthas to live to adulthood. Its perfectly legitimate for a half-elf to be the loudest person in the group, always taking the opportunity to prove themselves. I shouldn't be moping in the corner of the bar, looking around expectantly for people to chat with me, then giving some monologue when someone ignores me. Is this my first time meeting ANYONE in this world? Or course I'm being ignored! I don't know where the angsty half-elf stereotype comes from, or how justified it is, given that I'm a new player, but it seems a silly way to play any breed. Anyone who reaches the age of thirteen or greater in this hell hole of a world and thinks they're going to challenge racism with a terrible speech everytime they're treated like they always have been DESERVES the throat-slitting in the dark alley later that day. And that should apply to EVERY race.

Not a bad post at all, Asche. The whole community may not agree with everything you said but I generally do.

One thing I'd add about human-appearing half-elves: they are often not "treated like a human." Maybe on first glance, but the way I make my human-appearing half-elves, I think everybody tends to at least think of the possibility very early on. The confirmation may never come, but just being suspected of being a half-elf immediately ticks off a lot of opportunities a full-blood would have, like joining military organizations besides the Byn. Moreover, these PCs should have extreme difficulty passing even the first interview for such careers if they're staying IC, and if a human-appearing half-elf were to somehow make it to higher ranks in a military group... then they must have designed the PC especially for that, and they are bordering on snowflake status.

In other words, I agree with a lot of what you say, but I feel that it applies quite well to human-appearing half-elves as well. At least, the way I have played my human-appearing breeds. Good post.

Two thumbs up for Asche's post.

Quote from: Harmless on June 10, 2013, 11:01:29 AM
One thing I'd add about human-appearing half-elves: they are often not "treated like a human."

Both this post and the one it's responding to are very good.

But, yeah, hidden half-elves that are codedly half-elves aren't all that hidden. Even when the characters around you don't know, or only suspect, assume that the players around you know, and are playing along for the sake of your story.

Thank them, and move on, ya crazy halfbreed!  :)

I've always seen Mul's as having -extreme- cases of bipolar disorder. Now being said, I have bipolar disorder, so maybe that's why I don't think Mul's would be -that- hard to play. From playing all the non-karma required races (hehe  8) ) I'd say a dwarf is the hardest. Getting into that obsessed mindset...so difficult.

Its easy for me to play an obsessed person... yeeaah.

I say mul, for sheer lack of flexibility, <redacted>, glass ceiling that's worse than it is for dwarves (I think), the inability to get a *Job* with anyone other than Kurac, and the fact that whether you ever did anything bad or not, you will be wanted forever, and there's nothing you can do to change that. You could take a thirty IG year break, come back, and you will be still wanted by the pc population. With virtually anyone else, this isn't necessarily the case.

Edited to remove reference to IC things that aren't documented

I would say Nakki and rinthi city elf looks pretty challenging to play correctly (not that I'd know what that entails). You don't see many elves in Nak, but shortly after you do you usually end up seeing them on the body pile. "OMG gotta steal everything oh I died." Is that really how it's done?

Quote from: Fujikoma on June 11, 2013, 12:04:53 PM
I would say Nakki and rinthi city elf looks pretty challenging to play correctly (not that I'd know what that entails). You don't see many elves in Nak, but shortly after you do you usually end up seeing them on the body pile. "OMG gotta steal everything oh I died." Is that really how it's done?

You do have a point. There does seem to be a disproportionately large number of elves that end up on the pile in comparison to how many are played.

Related Sidenote: I think answer to this thread should be empirically determined solely through the metric of how many of each race end up on the corpse pile (normalized against how many are played).

I believe part of the reason it is hard to play a well-played, long-lived city elf is that those other elves are out there ruining it for you.

you (chuckling)> "I have a long-laid plot that will bring the city to its knees..."
dude (punctuating poorly)> "I just stole three large in weapons from people's belts in the Gaj. But they didn't see my face. Just that I'm an elf, duh!"
you> (lips pressed together, with a pained look in their eyes)"..."

jokes aside rinthi city elf is pretty hardmode

I would actually have thought that a non-'rinthi Allanaki city elf would be harder.

Or a city elf that doesn't go around collecting coins like Arm is some text-based Mario Bros. game.

Quote from: Morrolan on June 11, 2013, 01:52:28 PM
Or a city elf that doesn't go around collecting coins like Arm is some text-based Mario Bros. game.

But its so fun when you bop them in the nose and they shrink down to the size of a dwarf.

For me being isolated is the hardest, no matter what you I'm playing.  That is probably one of the reasons why playing a mul, a sorcerer, a mind bender or a void cleric is considered difficult. 

I don't really find elves difficult to play so long as there are other elves around to interact with.  Especially rinth elves because you feel the pressures of the rinth and the discrimination, which helps bring you into the xenophobic mind set.   

Dwarfs aren't difficult for me either because you can have safe interaction.  You can justify anything as a dwarf so long as it is bringing you closer to your character's goal.   

Half-elves are harder than Humans, elves and dwarfs, but still not incredibly difficult.  Following the docs there is still a huge amount of flexibility.

I think if I played a mul, I would loosely use the monster from Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" as inspiration...