This is my pitch for a commoner subguild.
Some people lead amazing, breathless lives in this game, with the knowledge of how to kill a person quickly and quietly, or how to beat up a silt-horror, or how to make Kadius's finest jewelry. Some people don't. They just, don't.
They would have:
the ability to master scavenge (if everyone isn't capable of this already) because a lot of them would be grebbers
The ability to haggle competitively in a marketplace, without becoming a master at it.
A moderate ability to scan, because tavern-crawling is often the only place of relative safety and fun they get at the end of the day and they would get somewhat competent at making sure no exceptionally tall cloak is continuously drifting closer towards them.
Toolmaking up to apprentice ability, to replace ones that they use every day until they break.
I know this isn't necessary but I still like the idea.
You mean a merchant who just doesn't practice?
Quote from: ianmartin on July 13, 2011, 09:58:00 PM
You mean a merchant who just doesn't practice?
... seriously? that's what i'm pitching?
i still like the idea of this subguild because, when you pick the merchant guild, you're still going to suck at anything but observation and making things. making it a subguild allows for breathing room methinks.
i'd like to tweak this idea, and make it uniquely commoner-like, but i'm not sure how
I see what you mean, those skills are definitely merchant skills, but I guess they can just cap em like they cap other skills and there you have your commoner subguild.
Of course you won't branch skills because they're capped.
Interesting.
The way you've written it, it just doesn't sound like a subguild to me.
"Subclasses are intended to round out characters with regards to their primary guild. They are not substitutes for a primary guild. A thief class will be a better thief than a warrior with the subclass of thief. A subguild represents your character's experience from before you begin playing him or her - accordingly these skills will not progress beyond a certain level." From the subguild page (http://www.armageddon.org/general/subguilds.html).
If you were to scale it back to the point where I think it would fit the subguild idea better... it would pretty much just be the existing scavenger subguild, but with scan instead of climb.
Warriors that can scan seem terrifying to me
I like the overall idea but I disagree with the choice of skills. Scan, in particular, has historically not been available via subguilds, and I like it that way.
Not sure why people are so afraid of subguild scan...the skill is almost totally useless until it's near-mastered.
Its good for mobs.
tl:dr because I'm long winded. There is a commoner sub. It's called House Servant maybe tinker.
Scavenging aka forage with the ability to find food doesn't seem very commoner to me. Most commoners wouldn't leave the city. Hell a lot of commoners don't even leave their SECTION of the city if we're talking hardcore adherence to RP.
Scan ability is meh, personally if I understood how hemotes interact with scan I might approve this because hemotes add a lot to the game. If catching hemotes isn't aided by scan then I wouldn't include it.
toolmaking is an interesting choice but then again I believe a subguild already provides this and is a rather commoner-ish sub.
The main reasons it seems like there's no a need for this is that, there is no one forcing you to utilize your skills. You can make a house servant, tinker, or whatever you like. Then simply not use the more talented skills they possess. On the flip side you could become a master merchant with every craft in the game and still RP only being able to make the simplest objects. While code is step in step with RP, there is nothing forcing you to use code to the maximum your character can. No one says a master warrior has to be a badass. nosave combat makes that master warriors emoted attacks miss every time.
Quote from: Jeshin on July 14, 2011, 03:32:01 AM
Scan ability is meh, personally if I understood how hemotes interact with scan I might approve this because hemotes add a lot to the game. If catching hemotes isn't aided by scan then I wouldn't include it.
Watch is the skill that determines if you catch hemotes or not, and we all have it.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 14, 2011, 03:06:39 AM
Its good for mobs.
Which is why I'd push for a low-capped scan in a subguild somewhere.... Hunting certain critters is a bitch and a half if you're a warrior.
I dunno, the lack of scan has always been the warriors one weakness (in my opinion). Its generally for that reason why rangers/non-warriors have a place in combat clans. Just seems to me that it'd discourage teamplay.
I added scan because I feel that commoners would be pretty damn aware of their surroundings because of the prevalence of crime (my real life friends who live in dangerous areas are much more aware of, say, every car passing on the road outside the house than I am) but watch might be better. I'm not real aware of all the little technicalities of fighting lifestyles and fighting teamwork so I didn't think of the implications of including the scan skill, and I'm trying to think of a guild that doesn't already get watch.
I'd rather see a subguild commoner split between northlands and southlands commoners.
Northlands can get low-capped flowercrafting, tailoring, armor repair, maxed haggle and bonuses to regenning fatigue while tavernsitting
Southlands can get low-capped slashing weapons, dual wield, the fireball spell, maxed forage and a bonus to fleeing from mekillots.
Quote from: Mr.B on July 14, 2011, 01:46:29 PM
I'd rather see a subguild commoner split between northlands and southlands commoners.
Northlands can get low-capped flowercrafting, tailoring, armor repair, maxed haggle and bonuses to regenning fatigue while tavernsitting
Southlands can get low-capped slashing weapons, dual wield, the fireball spell, maxed forage and a bonus to fleeing from mekillots.
Mundanes aren't allowed spells, but I really like this idea. it would also make sense for southerners to be slightly more familiar with combat, and i wonder about the fleeing from mekillots. a small knowledge of how to flee in general might work better, partly because mekillots are just one of the many wild dangers in the south and because there's no way staff would create a subguild with fireball.
whoooooosh.....
Quote from: Qzzrbl on July 14, 2011, 08:09:10 AM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 14, 2011, 03:06:39 AM
Its good for mobs.
Which is why I'd push for a low-capped scan in a subguild somewhere.... Hunting certain critters is a bitch and a half if you're a warrior.
It's not even good for most critters until it's high journeyman or advanced. Hell, even at low master, you can't spot 80% of the stuff around Allanak.
...which, I should add, is great for advancing the skill. Not so great if you're actually trying to hunt for a living.
Subguild commoners would look like this to me:
Bump to the watch skill
Haggle
Listen
Flee
My subguild commoner would be subguild tinker with skinning swapped for toolmaking. Does anyone even use subguild tinker?
Quote from: ianmartin on July 13, 2011, 09:58:00 PM
You mean a merchant who just doesn't practice?
I loled. +1
Quote from: Synthesis on July 14, 2011, 02:00:14 PM
My subguild commoner would be subguild tinker with skinning swapped for toolmaking. Does anyone even use subguild tinker?
One of my first characters was a tinker, before I realized how bad a choice they were :-)
Quote from: Synthesis on July 14, 2011, 02:00:14 PM
My subguild commoner would be subguild tinker with skinning swapped for toolmaking. Does anyone even use subguild tinker?
I always think about making a subguild tinker with my thiefly characters, because I hope that tinkers can get the ability to make lockpicks. But then I think that they probably don't and I decide on a different subguild.
An idea for a commoner (or insert more appropriate name) guild or subguild would be to allow them to pick the skills they want with a certain number of skill points... heh... and there may be a low skill cap or a smaller number of skills than what you might get with the other guilds. More mundane skills could cost less skill points or something. Of course, I guess that would be sort of a different system altogether. I'm wondering how it will work in Reborn?
What I guess I would want most in a commoner subguild is something that would enable a southsider to support themselves codedly while never leaving Allanak and just being some random commoner. Most citizens never leave their settled region, I would guess. I should have pitched that first; unless, of course, Allanaki commoner life is different from other settled areas in that case and they meant for it to be difficult to remain unaffiliated and to stay southside.
You can easily do that with no subguild, or guild skills at all.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 18, 2011, 03:36:59 PM
You can easily do that with no subguild, or guild skills at all.
Ooooh. Hrrm.
Replace scan with listen and I'm down. The only reason I ever pick subguild bard is because I love my precious listen skill too much.
Quote from: musashi on July 14, 2011, 07:55:32 PM
Quote from: Seeker on July 14, 2011, 05:04:20 PM
Quote from: Delirium on July 14, 2011, 01:51:55 PM
whoooooosh.....
You always crack me up. +1
+2, I was giggling.
+3, I linked it to someone to share the lolz.
Quote from: Cind on July 18, 2011, 04:00:48 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on July 18, 2011, 03:36:59 PM
You can easily do that with no subguild, or guild skills at all.
Ooooh. Hrrm.
I had a PC once who only sat around and bothered people in a tavern. They made a nice amount for a job that required no coded skills at all, unless you count being able to speak.
More subguilds would be nice.
Here are a few:
Survivalist:
-forage food
-bandaging
-climb
Outdoorsman
-hunt
-archery
-climb
Rogue
-steal
-backstab (capped at thug sap)
-kick
Spy
-peek
-hide
-listen
Quote from: Jingo on July 26, 2011, 07:09:34 PM
More subguilds would be nice.
Here are a few:
Survivalist:
-forage food
-bandaging
-climb
Outdoorsman
-hunt
-archery
-climb
Rogue
-steal
-backstab (capped at thug sap)
-kick
Spy
-peek
-hide
-listen
a subguild specifically for spies would be nice. outdoorsman, i think, is somewhat like hunter? but i don't know because i never played or i don't remember.
seriously, though; feeling like you're being guild-sniffed when the person just wants to know what you do for a living would decrease drastically with the addition of varied subguilds.
Man ... what I wouldn't give for like ... instead of subguilds ... just a selection of skills and you can pick any 2-3 that you want.
But yeah, that's just wishful thinking on my part ::)
That sounds like it'd make the game too fun, Mush.
i think you'd have to leave a few out of the grab-bag idea, or else people would be too terrified to play.
i'm guessing, poison, hide, stuff like that. include hide and 50% of the playerbase will have it, all of them the ones you don't want having it.
Quote from: musashi on July 28, 2011, 07:53:45 PM
Man ... what I wouldn't give for like ... instead of subguilds ... just a selection of skills and you can pick any 2-3 that you want.
But yeah, that's just wishful thinking on my part ::)
Sure would help with keeping me from having to special-app alot of my character concepts.
I understand 2.arm is gonna be a lot more flexible so ... meh, I guess we'll have to wait and see.