Exactly like subguild linguist, except Sirihish, Allundean, and Mirukkim are replaced by Cavilish, Bedune, and knowing the tribal accent. This allows for more flexible tribal (and other) backgrounds beyond "I MAKEZ SPEARZ BUT NOT SPAER SHAFTZ!"
I know variations on this have been suggested before. But there's no longer a tiny code wants thread because we can't have nice things without pooping on them, so I'm posting a new thread.
Some may object because Cavilish, according to some docs, is SUPER SEKRIT but since 20% of the non-karma guild options start with it, I'm going to say that it's not so super sekrit. Writing it is. Speaking it isn't. This would also be a great subguild for some merchant house members and maybe even d-elves who trade with local nomadic groups but don't hang out in cities learning dwarf speak (yeah, yeah, there's dwarven nomads, but ... come on).
Just let subguild_linguists pick up to two languages out of allundean, mirukkim, cavilish, and bendune. Ideally, the language picking can be available right after picking the subguild in chargen. This will allow people to pick whatever they think makes the most sense, and to pick only one language if they feel their background would only support one language.
I used to be one of those Super Sekrit Cavilish people, because the docs basically say that - but at this point it doesn't make sense to double down on that when anyone can pick guild_merchant, and is supposedly one of the most common guilds among the virtual population.
I like the idea you posted, and I hope this variation (which I posted before) isn't considered totally different. I figure if you're going to change something for the better, then it's best not to leave it halfway done.
I agree with you, CT.
My thought was that a new subguild would exist within the current subguild code structure whereas allowing language choices would require an extra layer of code. If the latter was done, I would support some mechanism to choose starting accent (but not an extra accent) so that you could start with the tribal accent without subguild nomad (which has been improved, but isn't always my cup of tea and spec-apping and waiting a month just to start with a tribal accent is too much of a pain).
Anything so that the question "Do you speak cavilish?" no longer means "Are you a guild_merchant"?
Eh. Honestly I think Bendune and Cavilish are a bit more "valuable" than Mirrukim and Allundean. I don't think there needs to be a subguild with both.
I'm still hugely in favor of a subguild with Cavilish (also value and haggle), though.
I like this idea, or that of being able to pick which languages you speak. I wonder if 'mantis antennae twitch' would be a viable choice ...
But yeah. Love it.
How about: Linquist subquild gives three points. You get your native language(s) (Sirihish or Allundean) and accent for free, then pick how you spend the points.
Sirihish - 1
Allundean - 1
Mirukkim - 1
Bendune - 2
Cavalish - 2
Tribal accent - 1
Northern accent - 1
Southern accent - 1
Rinthi accent - 1
I could get behind that.
Quote from: Seeker on June 19, 2011, 10:08:52 PM
How about: Linquist subquild gives three points. You get your native language(s) (Sirihish or Allundean) and accent for free, then pick how you spend the points.
Sirihish - 1
Allundean - 1
Mirukkim - 1
Bendune - 2
Cavalish - 2
Tribal accent - 1
Northern accent - 1
Southern accent - 1
Rinthi accent - 1
I could get behind that.
Only problem with this is that bedune is overrated, I think, since you can get bedune, accent, PLUS other stuff with nomad subguild. But otherwise, yes, I like it.
This could be done with softcode via JS.
All in all, I wish starting language/accent could be chosen in CharGen rather than chosen by race and starting location. Plenty of times I've started in Luir's and a southern accent was more appropriate. Or I've made a nakki that lacked nomad guild and a tribal accent was more appropriate. Also, some of my city elves weren't the type to grow up speaking Allundean and Sirihish. Dwarves, same way./derail.
Linguist subguild should just get to pick three languages from a list.
I would understand dwarves and elves in cities that didn't speak allundean and mirrukim, or spoke it badly, which i think would be more common.
Allundean and Mirrikum just need some documentation to give them more depth by enriching them with some culture that everyone could agree on, like other languages have. All languages are the same, in that there was a unique culture that spawned them. With the exception of Sirihish (common) which seems to have lost any unique culture because of its wide usage.
Quote from: boog on June 19, 2011, 09:39:23 PM
I like this idea, or that of being able to pick which languages you speak. I wonder if 'mantis antennae twitch' would be a viable choice ...
But yeah. Love it.
help nrizkt
southern merchant crafting skills
oops rong thred
Quote from: Seeker on June 19, 2011, 10:08:52 PM
How about: Linquist subquild gives three points. You get your native language(s) (Sirihish or Allundean) and accent for free, then pick how you spend the points.
Sirihish - 1
Allundean - 1
Mirukkim - 1
Bendune - 2
Cavalish - 2
Tribal accent - 1
Northern accent - 1
Southern accent - 1
Rinthi accent - 1
I could get behind that.
+1
I like the use of accents in here. I often feel like a lot of the rinthi's that I roll should be able to pass a southern accent for stealth, business, or whatever other purposes.
On a side note, I hesitate when I think about a c-elf, half-elf, or dwarf chosing this sub, then spending on cavlish or bendune, or whatever language they were missing (mirukkim or allundean). 4 or 5 language starting? Eh.. But then again, it's just language. And then again, a half-elf or dwarf merchant/nomad would do this anyways. (Or merch/Linguist.)
Quote from: Majikal on June 19, 2011, 11:10:26 PM
All in all, I wish starting language/accent could be chosen in CharGen rather than chosen by race and starting location. Plenty of times I've started in Luir's and a southern accent was more appropriate. Or I've made a nakki that lacked nomad guild and a tribal accent was more appropriate.
Agreed, though I think being able to choose this way should apply only to Luirs, and then you could only pick north/south. If you're a southerner and you want to go to Tuluk right of the roll, you should have to make the trip your damn self, and vice-versa. If you're a ranger, it's no big deal on either the level of the character IC or the person playing the character. But, if you were a rinthi assassin, and you wanted to go to the north immediately after gearing up, that could be more of a perilous journey and as such should be done your damn self. Unless there's a key reason why you would be from the north and start in the south or vice verse. Then, you could spec app for an accent swap at roll. (for example, I've played a Tuluki magicker who fled to Allanak to get gemmed, but started in Nak since that's a looong walk for a newb gicker.)
I disagree that it should be a workaround for changing your accent. If you want a tribal accent, you should be a tribal or nomad.
Other than that, I love the idea of picking which languages you get as a linguist.
Quote from: Feco on June 22, 2011, 10:22:48 AM
I disagree that it should be a workaround for changing your accent. If you want a tribal accent, you should be a tribal or nomad.
Other than that, I love the idea of picking which languages you get as a linguist.
The only problem I have with that is that it becomes much harder to, say, have a tribal physician, or armor crafter, or caravan guide, etc., without picking the exactly correct main guild.
You don't have to have a tribal accent to be tribal.
I think actually you do... but I can't find the official doc/statement thereof.
Quote from: help benduneWhile most contemporary desert tribes are composed of refugees from the city-states or of elven nomads, the Allundean and Sirihish languages are far more common in the wilderness than they once were. On the fringes of the Known World, however, most still speak Bendune, particularly the Tan Muark, who claim it their own invention.
Quote from: Sanvean (http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,7970.msg77088.html#msg77088)If your background mentions that you are one of the Tablelands nomads, such as Jul Taven, Benjari, Arabet, etc - you should be picking nomad as a subguild, rather than picking a different subguild and then asking for Bendune on top of that. It's -exactly- what the nomad subguild is there for. Thanks.
There doesn't seem to be anything there that would preclude you from coming from a small, virtual tribe that doesn't speak Bendune or have a tribal accent. Desert-elves have to be from one of the coded tribes, but I'm pretty sure humans
et al. can still use virtual tribes as a background.
Of course, if what you really want is to be able to move around with relative freedom in both Allanak and Tuluk, because of your accent, this sort of solution won't appeal to you.
Quote from: Marauder Moe on June 22, 2011, 12:39:56 PM
I think actually you do... but I can't find the official doc/statement thereof.
Methinks Moe is right.
Quote from: Rejection e-mailYour application for a character named **** on
Armageddon MUD has been rejected for the following reason:
If you're going to have a tribal background (even as a youth), you
need to choose nomad for your subguild..... - Anaiah.
You actually do need a nomad subguild to play a nomadic/tribal pc. The exception to this is elves. And those who are part of coded tribes. If you're part of a coded tribe, you get that during set up with your clan staff. As an avid fan of human tribals, and the nomad subguild both, I know this. :P
Well, if the staff have their own undocumented policy, that's another story. The current docs (that I can find) don't say anything about it. The only thing I could find that required you to take subguild_nomad is if you're a member of a coded tribe, which implies that if you aren't a member of a coded tribe, you don't.
It's not in the nomad helpfile, but it is on the website:
Quote from: http://www.armageddon.org/general/subguilds.htmlNomads, usually originating in the tablelands around Luir's Outpost, speak their own native tongue and Bendune. They are adept at shrewd bartering in the desert markets, and are known for their skill in making spears. If you are playing a character with a nomadic background, you must pick this subclass.
OMG CONFLICTING MESSAGES!!!
Quote from: Anaiah on March 26, 2011, 02:04:59 AM
Quote from: musashi on March 25, 2011, 11:25:55 PM
Since we all have a lot to say about this topic in particular why don't we route the conversation here and stop derailing the random tiny code wants thread?
My thoughts on language go something like this:
I don't like that to be part of a human tribe you have to take the nomad subguild but desert elves can subguild freely. I wish the human race were split into city humans and tribal humans much like elves are in order to remedy this problem.
To randomly address part of this:
You only need to pick nomad subguild if you are part of an UNCODED human tribe. As an Al'Seik or Arabet, you can choose a different subguild. Much the same, ALL desert elves belong to a coded tribe. No need for the rule there.
Just sayin'.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 22, 2011, 06:28:39 PM
It's not in the nomad helpfile, but it is on the website:
Quote from: http://www.armageddon.org/general/subguilds.htmlNomads, usually originating in the tablelands around Luir's Outpost, speak their own native tongue and Bendune. They are adept at shrewd bartering in the desert markets, and are known for their skill in making spears. If you are playing a character with a nomadic background, you must pick this subclass.
Not every tribe is nomadic?
But yeah, just as a matter of game mechanics, restricting ALL tribal PCs to the nomad subguild is dumb.
If you're SG linguist with any kind of wisdom stat, I betcha learn Cavilish and/or Bendune pretty quick. But, y'know, you gotta find an IC teacher.
Quote from: Kismetic on June 22, 2011, 08:38:07 PM
If you're SG linguist with any kind of wisdom stat, I betcha learn Cavilish and/or Bendune pretty quick. But, y'know, you gotta find an IC teacher.
> ask angular topics
> ask angular name
> ask angular hello
> ask angular seik
Or keep trying to give him your mount ticket ;D
Its twinky shit like that which stripped some cool stuff out of the game. Not saying anyone here was actually suggesting it, but some random readers may lift an eyebrow and go for it.
It's not twinkish depending on how you do it.
For example, I once played a human ranger from Tuluk who was IC'ly spending time with the Arabet learning about their culture and what not because the bardic chick he really wanted to sleep with suggested it as a good idea since it was something she had done in her past too.
I told the tribal clan staff about what I was up to, and when I asked about maybe getting Bendune eventually added to my skill list after sending in RP logs and what not ... I was told by staff that so long as I was RP'ing the interaction, it would be a-ok, preferred even, to go and interact with the coded NPC "talkers" of the tribe and just let the skill open up and improve all on its own.
My ranger was then eaten by anakore. Welcome to Armageddon.
Quote from: musashi on June 23, 2011, 01:07:16 AM
It's not twinkish depending on how you do it.
I can assure I've had some pretty funny solo rp situations when trying to haggle / ask some NPC some questions who my can understand.. even wrapped it into a little scene w/ some other random PC.
RPing the language barrier in any situation is fun.
Quote from: Synthesis on June 22, 2011, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 22, 2011, 06:28:39 PM
It's not in the nomad helpfile, but it is on the website:
Quote from: http://www.armageddon.org/general/subguilds.htmlNomads, usually originating in the tablelands around Luir's Outpost, speak their own native tongue and Bendune. They are adept at shrewd bartering in the desert markets, and are known for their skill in making spears. If you are playing a character with a nomadic background, you must pick this subclass.
Not every tribe is nomadic?
But yeah, just as a matter of game mechanics, restricting ALL tribal PCs to the nomad subguild is dumb.
In game help file no longer says you have to pick this background. From what I understand this, this is the general rule. You want to create your own tribe then you have to pick nomad as a subguild. For desert elves you have to be part of a coded tribe.
It's a good thing nomad is like TOP SUBGUILDZ tier or that policy would be a real bother.
I could've sworn I'd read somewhere that there are some tribes out there that consist mainly of refugees from cities.
But I could be wrong.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on July 05, 2011, 10:27:20 AM
I could've sworn I'd read somewhere that there are some tribes out there that consist mainly of refugees from cities.
But I could be wrong.
Yeah. That's cool to use.