either it's not in the docs or I can find it, What is the relationship between dwarves and elves, the same as humans, or neutral or even friendly. Another is what dwarves think of half-elves, is it the same as humans and elves treat them?
Faustin, I'm just commenting mostly because I dig your icon. Awesome.
But, I think that dwarves might be annoyed by anyone who can't keep their mind from jumping around - but then again - it probably depends on the individual with general cultural tendencies. (Which is a long-winded way of saying, "I got nothin.")
Some dwarves are very integrated into human society and will share their dislike of elves and half-elves. Others won't. Being neither human nor elf, an independent-minded dwarf is somewhat less likely to be grossed out by halfbreeds (and more grossed out by muls!)
Yeah, I was thinking this the other day - that muls and dwarves would have a really awkward relationship, seeing as muls represent the product of enslaved dwarves.
both your posts make sense, expect I had more of an idea the dwarves wouldn't care for something as pointless as prejudice and bigotry since why are always think about that foci, expect Muls I would figure most dwarves see them like the as humans and elves view breeds.
I don't think dwarves would feel that way about muls.
If they felt anything, I imagine it would be that of remorse.
Stuck with a humans inability to focus and a dwarven need to focus.
Aside from their focus, which is what drives them, dwarves have a fully normal set of emotions and feelings. Some hate breeds, some don't. Some would hate muls, some wouldn't. What makes a dwarf a dwarf is the focus, which colors everything they do. Yes, they sit in the tavern, to rest from work and reflect on life and their focus. Yes, they like elves, because elves have nothing to do with their focus, and one was even nice to you. No, they hate elves, because every time they turn around, another elf is in the way. Plus they steal all the time. Etc, etc.
Everything a dwarf feels and thinks is colored by their focus, but, there is no universal way for dwarves to view other races, other cultures, or other things. The normal stereotypes are just as prevalent for a dwarf, initially, as it is for any other race. A dwarf might very well hate magickers, even if none have harmed him, and never accept their help, even if it helps his focus, just because magickers are evil. And by the same token, that dwarf might very well like magickers, because they help him achieve his focus, and who gives a fuck with the other idiots think anyway?
Indeed, it would seem that a dwarf's inherent single-mindedness would make them less susceptible to cultural trends and pressure.
There is the self perpetuating tendency for humans to hate elves and half-elves because one generation of humans passes it down to the next, broad social connections being something of a human forté. Dwarves might be more inclined to interpret these trends in relation to their personal focus rather than in relation to their surrounding society.
Or a dwarf may pretend to hate an elf because not hating an elf causes a fuss. Tossing in the "Stupid fucking 'neck." which takes up a few seconds of your time is a lot easier than getting into an argument with a roundear (who thinks about things wrongly anyway) about why you should hate elves. I think dwarves go along with social conventions because not going along with them just takes up too much time and we got shit to do.
You can still play a racist dwarf; a dwarf's racial biases may prevent them from making an objective assessment of an elf or breed's usefulness, or make them assume that there is a threat to their focus, etc. Dwarf thinks "I need an associate...elf? He can't be trusted. Breed? Mixed blood is unreliable. Dwarf? Hmm...only if I know we have compatible goals. Human is probably the safest and easiest. Maybe if I'm lucky I'll find a stray half-giant that I can make my pet."
In reverse, elves should probably be just as suspicious of dwarves as they are of all outsiders, if not more so. Why is this dwarf trying to engage with me? "He wants something...I'd better test him extra good before I start to trust him."
Yep, all sounds good. +1
Quote from: hyzhenhok on October 12, 2010, 02:11:29 AM
You can still play a racist dwarf; a dwarf's racial biases may prevent them from making an objective assessment of an elf or breed's usefulness, or make them assume that there is a threat to their focus, etc.
Yeah, I'm not an expert on dwarf RP by a long stretch, but I've always assumed that most dwarves are racist just like the rest; true, it may restrict their ability to make an objective assessment of an elf/breed's usefulness to their foci, but bigotry tends to be based on ignorance and even the single-minded dwarf is susceptible to ignorance which might be detrimental to their focus.
I'd imagine they'd be more willing to work together with say, an elf than a human would however, if the elf could help them achieve their focus. But just because they're temporarily cooperating doesn't mean the dwarf disdains the elf any less than a human would.
Quote from: HTX on October 12, 2010, 05:24:21 AM
Quote from: hyzhenhok on October 12, 2010, 02:11:29 AM
You can still play a racist dwarf; a dwarf's racial biases may prevent them from making an objective assessment of an elf or breed's usefulness, or make them assume that there is a threat to their focus, etc.
Yeah, I'm not an expert on dwarf RP by a long stretch, but I've always assumed that most dwarves are racist just like the rest; true, it may restrict their ability to make an objective assessment of an elf/breed's usefulness to their foci, but bigotry tends to be based on ignorance and even the single-minded dwarf is susceptible to ignorance which might be detrimental to their focus.
I'd imagine they'd be more willing to work together with say, an elf than a human would however, if the elf could help them achieve their focus. But just because they're temporarily cooperating doesn't mean the dwarf disdains the elf any less than a human would.
Agree; if a dwarf does decide working with an elf (or gith or mantis or sorcerer) is necessary and beneficial to their focus, they won't let their prejudice get in the way. They just might have some biases that make them more cautious when arriving at that conclusion, more cautious when dealing with them, add a some extra sub-focus goals that need to be achieved before dealing with the undesirables, etc. And a lot depends on a lot of other factors of your dwarf's personality, background, integration in society and personal station. Crazy ex-Bynner dwarf X who needs an elf might have no qualms wading into the 'rinth's east side armed to the teeth and carrying no coin or valuables to hire help, while Tor Scorpion dwarf Y will try to hire an elf only through an intermediary. They both might be racists against elves, but the racism comes through the manner in which they interact with elves, not a complete refusal to deal with them if it is beneficial.
So not only are dwarves 0-karma combat death-machines, they also get to ignore the vast majority of the documentation?
Quote from: Synthesis on October 12, 2010, 12:00:53 PM
So not only are dwarves 0-karma combat death-machines, they also get to ignore the vast majority of the documentation?
Aye, laddie.
Quote from: Synthesis on October 12, 2010, 12:00:53 PM
So not only are dwarves 0-karma combat death-machines, they also get to ignore the vast majority of the documentation?
Go on.
Ignore what part of the docs exactly?
The general docs are written from a mostly human standpoint. This is why the sections on human RP pretty much just say, Meh, your human, flexible and can do anything you want long as it is reasonable to the general docs.
Meanwhile the other races have very specific docs on how they should be played.
Dwarves get to ignore no more of the docs then any other playable race.
Yippe, another dwarf thread!Quote from: X-D on October 12, 2010, 01:43:32 PM
Dwarves get to ignore no more of the docs then any other playable race.
Exactly, they should follow the docs just as much as any other race. For instance, I see humans sleeping with half-breeds on a pretty regular basis, regardless of how the docs say most people feel about half-breeds. Normally I give these people the benefit of the doubt that they have a compelling reason to be doing so. My same thought applies to any racial prejudices or any inter-racial friendships or other relationships--that player is probably playing their character as interpreted through their personality and what the docs say are likely. You should assume the docs are going to apply to most people, dwarves not excluded, because having a focus doesn't mean you don't have a personality or aren't influenced by the local culture.
So I think the question is too broad to really answer specifically. Maybe your character (a dwarf) hates all elves, but trusts just this one over here that's helping them with their focus. Or maybe they think all elves are sneaky, slippery bastards, and would never talk to one, and feels the same way about half-breeds. Or doesn't trust elves, but trusts them more than humans, because at least you can trust an elf to always screw you over, and who knows what those humans are going to do, and lumps half-breeds in with humans on the same basis. Or loves half-breeds because they are so easy to manipulate through friendship. Just do what makes sense to your character while keeping the documentation and culture of the game in mind, in terms of how it would influence your character's perceptions.
I've seen or heard of quite a few times recently when there was a human and a dwarf getting it on. Disgusting.
Aren't breeds themselves proof of people not reading the docs?
What twisted human would sleep with a thieving scumbag elf?
I had one dwarf that would screw anything that held still, I very nearly made it a focus, made for some funny times on the Yargosy. He once tried to get it on with a female braxat...that did not go well. Another had a female mul lover, but hey, strong, hairless and unable to have children which could interfer with focus, the perfect sexual partner.
All the rest were extremely racist when it came to sex, to the point some of them would become violent towards other dwarves with the cross race sex sickness.
Quote from: Reiteration on October 12, 2010, 03:43:29 PM
Aren't breeds themselves proof of people not reading the docs?
What twisted human would sleep with a thieving scumbag elf?
Well, considering the amount of extremely weird fetishes irl, I am not surprised at all that there are tons of humans in the game world that are willing to sleep with elves. There are people IRL who jerk off to trash cans (for real) so having sex with someone who's just tall and skinny is pretty tame. I'm surprised there aren't man-dwarf-mantis hybrids.
The MANBEARPIG arrives from the east.
Quote from: spicemustflow on October 12, 2010, 03:58:42 PM
Quote from: Reiteration on October 12, 2010, 03:43:29 PM
Aren't breeds themselves proof of people not reading the docs?
What twisted human would sleep with a thieving scumbag elf?
Well, considering the amount of extremely weird fetishes irl, I am not surprised at all that there are tons of humans in the game world that are willing to sleep with elves. There are people IRL who jerk off to trash cans (for real) so having sex with someone who's just tall and skinny is pretty tame. I'm surprised there aren't man-dwarf-mantis hybrids.
Well, dwarf mixes are sterile, so man-mantis would have to ... no. Fetishes are one thing, cross-kingdom reproduction an whole 'nother.
... Magick alone can attempt this, or maybe taxidermy.
Cross kingdom? The way I see it, humans and elves are the same species - dwarves are a separate species, but remain within the same genus. Mantis... Hard to say. Within the same kingdom? Probably.
I vote for the Tregil/Halfling, or Tregling! Even smaller, but sneakier, and eats everything in sight. :)
Well, no, I wasn't being serious about actual offspring but humping an elf is pretty low on a ladder of weird things to do. If you are a paraphiliac in Zalanthas.
Rape happens.
Great example of Bigotry and still utilizing the other race is in a film cal Made In Britain with Tim Roth. He's a racists skin head and at one point is put into some halfway home and made to bunk with a black man, and He hates him, but you wouldn't really know that from the way he interacts with him through most the movie, I mean there are small signs but he drags the boy along with him on some capers, but in the end he sets the boy up to go to jail, leaving him hanging in front of a police station. Now I thought that was a great use of race hate, lulle them in for your own devices and then toss'm away like a used hanky.
Quote from: Potaje on October 13, 2010, 10:23:55 AM
Great example of Bigotry and still utilizing the other race is in a film cal Made In Britain with Tim Roth. He's a racists skin head and at one point is put into some halfway home and made to bunk with a black man, and He hates him, but you wouldn't really know that from the way he interacts with him through most the movie, I mean there are small signs but he drags the boy along with him on some capers, but in the end he sets the boy up to go to jail, leaving him hanging in front of a police station. Now I thought that was a great use of race hate, lulle them in for your own devices and then toss'm away like a used hanky.
Definitely, racism doesn't have to be of the in-your-face nasty variety (though that is always fun). Dwarves and elves are both less likely to go for the in-your-face variety because they both have racial characteristics that make them want something from everyone else at least some of the time.
Quote from: HavokBlue on October 13, 2010, 03:11:21 AM
Rape happens.
Another example of what a bigot might do, too. You hate something so much, you want to defile it.