I've noticed what seems to be an increase in players choosing to play prostitutes in game recently. That has -got- to be a challenging role to maintain especially since there is likely a bit of RL stigma that enters peoples mindsets when dealing with something that in the context of Armageddon is commonplace and accepted.
Personally, I have always found overtly romantic scenarios in an online environment to be awkward and uncomfortable beyond the flirting/teasing stage. For those of you who play or have played prostitutes do you find most of your 'clients' Fade to Black, or is going through the whole gambit of sweaty thrusting and bodily fluids spraying everywhere the typical expectation? :D
If I'm gonna spend some coded coins for sexy entertainment, then I want that to be coded sexy entertainment. If my sexy entertainer insists on virtual entertainment, they'll have to accept virtual coins.
Good thing for all involved, that my characters do not, and will not, have any interest in buying sex from a PC.
I wouldn't mind paying for a bit of FTB action. I played a whore once (a female), and it's a good thing I got Jack the Ripper as my third customer. Enduring an hour of mudsex every time would be a torture.
I have noticed the same increase in trend. I believe it might be influenced by economy changes, with more intependant PCs struggling to make a living and be able to buy food. At least, the one recent whore I played was simply desperate and did not see any other way to make coins that would not likely get her killed. She never saw herself as a whore, just a girl trying to survive until she could pursue other opportunities, which happened quickly. For that reason, I don't really know if most clients like to fade or not. The one I experienced didn't. It might be safe to assume that the majority prefers not to fade if they're spending coins.
Besides, with fading, you can't really get the point across that the character is mind-blastingly awesome at what they do. :P People could spread word that the whore is boring, and there would be no way to correct the impression, which is bad for business.
The time I paid for a whore I faded to black.
anecdote
My pc said, can we fade to black.
Their pc said, yes, but can you stay a couple of minutes so people think I did my job?
We idled
I thought the idea of rping someone buying a whore then pretending to be mudsexing them was delightfully meta. I felt like Italo Calvino of the mud world.
/anecdote
I don't mind paying for some FTB action at all. As long as it doesn't cost 200+ coins to do so. Unless of course, that whore is a luxury item, and then 200+ is a-okay.
For the standard, run of the mill hookers, I draw the line at 200, max.
When my toon decides they'd like to buy a whore, they buy a whore. FTB.
Quote from: Akaramu on June 20, 2010, 01:49:22 PM
Besides, with fading, you can't really get the point across that the character is mind-blastingly awesome at what they do. :P People could spread word that the whore is boring, and there would be no way to correct the impression, which is bad for business.
I always discuss specifics when ftbing: tats, preferences, performance.
What Ampere said. Nothing against people who love teh mad mudsexx0rz, but I'm just not into that sort of roleplay, while if my character is interested in it - they are.
You shouldn't react differently to FTB. I would FTB personally.
To answer the original question, it varies a lot from person to person. When it starts to get toward the act itself, one just inquires OOC, 'Do you want to fade, or do you consent to continue?' If they fade to black, they fade. If they do not, then it's described to the tolerance of the players. Either one is fine.
Really a very common trade in the game world, and not one the average person should feel awkward about interacting with, whether or not on a FTB basis. In a setting where we welcome everything from coarse language to hard torture, sexuality hardly troubles me, personally. One thing I can say is that, for all the people on the boards left aghast by the idea of playing such scenes out, folks in-game tend to take a rather different view.
I've mudsexed without fading maybe 7 times total since 2004. Sometimes, it just has a roleplay value that cannot be expressed in OOC or with fade emotes. For instance, I had a rogue mage whose element would stir in hemotes during an orgasm - but only if her partner knew what he was doing. One person figured her out that way.
I usually prefer sex to take place virtually, during offline time. It just takes way too freaking long to play out, if there isn't a good reason to play it out.
You are curious about the typical expectation that a player has when hiring a prostitute IG? I think a lot of people will come here and tell you that they will fade, that their PC ICly wanted/needed the service and they just did what was IC. Most of them are telling you the truth. I also think that there are players who enjoy playing sex scenes out and expect a prostitute to do the same. I think a lot of these people will hire a fading-to-black prostitute once, find that they FTB, and move on. I think there are several players (like me) who don't care either way and will swing whichever way the other player decides when it comes to playing out sex scenes or fading.
I should note I haven't played a full-time prostitute, but this theory applies to all aspects of sexual relationships in Arm. I have observed characters inexplicably lose interest in other characters romantically and sexually after a fade, which is just dumb and against the spirit of the game when it really is because of what it looks like, but whatever. I think that if you play a prostitute, you should expect to cater to faders and scene-players alike, but kudos to you if you can FTB 100% of the time as a prostitute and not lose half of your clientele.
Also, Akoto is right. Many players on the GDB say they always FTB, but the numbers don't match IG. I chalk it up to the demonization of sex and prostitution in many parts of Earth. Keep that in mind when collecting your data.
I've honestly had mudsex only once without fading.....
Mostly because I don't want to put the person on the other end through my emotes..... I can emote -alot- of stuff. But sex ain't one of 'em.
Though a couple of players lately have been giving me the rundown of the basics and whatnot. x]
Also had a few of PCs that would buy any whore available.
One of 'em even wound up being quite a Casanova despite his freak-ass mutations.
FTBing aaaalllll the way.
And just OOCing the basics of went down.
Even passed on a couple of crotch fleas....
Awesome. :)
As long as the person you're with doesn't whip out a crow-bar long and hard weiner ...
Most of my times on Arm have been FTB. I've had one instance where it wasn't, and that's not to say I wouldn't do more. I agree with Aka; some things just can't be expressed through FTB. I would feel jipped if someone relayed through OOC, "My char stared at urs luvingly while bonkin her real hard and makin' her sore." (Er, I blame heat stroke on my poor OOC example.)
If you're worried about performance, all you have to do is read some romance novel excerpts beforehand to copy and paste. *nod*
These threads are pointless.
You'll get all the prudes posting about how they fade to black and how mudsex is icky and they are morally superior and what not.
The mudsexers don't post or pretend to be a prude.
I do what I feel like at the moment. The problem really is that mudsex takes too damn long. I don't have that many hours :P.
Whores, I salute you.
I don't think many of the people posting that they FTB are prudes.
I FTB, not because of prudishness, I have played out a full scene before and it was fun. But it takes a long time. and from what I've seen with others, if you have done it once you have done it 100 times, in that nothing much changes.
So, FTB, go eat a sammich, come back, emote being all sweaty and go on with business.
I've played more than one whore, and I will in the future as well. It's a valid and viable trade. One with, I think, a lot of room for RP. Not just the sex, but the mental and physical and/or emotional affects on the person doing it, diseases, horrible accidents, pillow talk.
That said: If you expect to ply a trade IG, I think you should be willing to put in the work as a player. Much as you have to grind up combat skills, or actually craft things with a merchant. If you choose to play a sexually-based character, the choice to Fade ought to be that of the other player, because most of the time they spent their RL time helping their character to acquire the sid to pay for the services of your pc.
How can this even be up for discussion? It's not anyone's decision to FTB other than the player and FTBing shouldn't make the RP any less enjoyable.
ooc: "Consent for mudsex"
ooc: "No. Let's just change ldesc for half an hour. thanks"
There, it's done. There shouldn't be any penalties for this like being paid less. You don't like it? Download some porn.
Quote from: Lizzie on June 20, 2010, 01:36:05 PM
If I'm gonna spend some coded coins for sexy entertainment, then I want that to be coded sexy entertainment. If my sexy entertainer insists on virtual entertainment, they'll have to accept virtual coins.
Good thing for all involved, that my characters do not, and will not, have any interest in buying sex from a PC.
Quote from: janeshephard on June 20, 2010, 04:47:22 PM
There, it's done. There shouldn't be any penalties for this like being paid less. You don't like it? Download some porn.
If you don't pay my whore after fading to black, then expect some very real IC consequences. Your character may end up a eunuch otherwise. Just because it's happening in a fade doesn't mean it's not happening.
Well.
My thought is this: Don't let the fact that you don't mudsex, or that you disapprove of prostitution in RL, or whatever it may be, get in the way in this game. Sure, it can be an insult to some, but not much of one. Whoring is a pretty legitimate practice, something a lot of people participate in, so on and so forth.
So. If you see someone who went out of their way to make a prostitute that isn't an exorbitant amount of money to use...think about using it to fade. Don't let the compunctions stand in the way of something that may otherwise bring more reality and blending to the character.
I'm not saying -everyone- should. But I am saying I think some people are scared away from it without even realizing it.
Quote from: Armaddict on June 20, 2010, 05:08:15 PM
I'm not saying -everyone- should. But I am saying I think some people are scared away from it without even realizing it.
I think this may, in some cases, be the result of people fearing how they'll be perceived. They worry that being seen dealing with a whore PC will lead other players to think they're a dirty MUDsexer, even though they might intend to fade (and even though there's nothing wrong with RPing it out). Kind of why I made the point earlier that, in a game where miscellaneous forms of torture and violence are regularly played out, sexuality really isn't that big a deal.
It is if you were born in the U.S.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 20, 2010, 05:31:58 PM
It is if you were born in the U.S.
I was, and for a while, I was even concerned for the above stated reason of perception. When I realized that the people RPing it far outnumber the people denouncing it on the boards, I got over it. ;)
You're right, though. There's a really peculiar imbalance when it comes to what offends us Americans. Let the limbs fly, but by God, there better not be any kankin' depicted!
Well, I think there's some other factors involved.
A lot of times there's some gender switching going on between player and PC, and while some people don't care about the gender behind the PC they're getting ready to sex up, I can certainly see how that would make others quite uncomfortable.
And then there's the simple fact that... you have absolutely no idea how old the other player is. Are they a college student, or a middle school student?
... Wait, -after- fading to black? ??? Usually I'd expect a client to pay first. Safer that way. Maybe that's just me though.
My only complaint with PC whores is that they usually charge way too much, given their status. I've seen them trying to charge 200, 300, and even 500 sids for a fuck when in reality a low class whore of their (typical) stature would be paid around only, what 10-50 sid a pop? 100 at best? I mean, from an OOC standpoint I can understand - if you don't fade, that's potentially a big waste of time (roleplay aside) and for only a few peasley sids, it wouldn't feel worth it. But still, give me more diseased alleyway whores charging 50 sid for a go behind the tavern, and give me more of those whores who haggle with their customers over the price.
From a semi-OOC standpoint, charging 10 sid and not fading is rather a recipe for starvation. ;)
If I wanted someone to go through sexy torture I wouldn't withhold payment if they wanted to fade to black on the grounds of being a pervert and wanting my money's worth.
BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE YOUR SICKLY, OOC DESIRE FOR FILTH. Lizzie. ;D
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 20, 2010, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on June 20, 2010, 01:36:05 PM
If I'm gonna spend some coded coins for sexy entertainment, then I want that to be coded sexy entertainment. If my sexy entertainer insists on virtual entertainment, they'll have to accept virtual coins.
Good thing for all involved, that my characters do not, and will not, have any interest in buying sex from a PC.
Quote from: janeshephard on June 20, 2010, 04:47:22 PM
There, it's done. There shouldn't be any penalties for this like being paid less. You don't like it? Download some porn.
If you don't pay my whore after fading to black, then expect some very real IC consequences. Your character may end up a eunuch otherwise. Just because it's happening in a fade doesn't mean it's not happening.
And just because you're getting paid in an emote, doesn't mean it's not happening :)
Spoon: Keep my filth out of this.
I'm actually curious if players in general are able to give virtual coins for virtual service. Seems reasonable enough.
Like...I want you to guard my virtual food shop. You'll get paid virtual food in exchange.
Quote from: Semper on June 20, 2010, 06:29:43 PM
I'm actually curious if players in general are able to give virtual coins for virtual service. Seems reasonable enough.
If you mean for whores, sure, happens all the time.
If you mean in general, for several professions, absolutely. Whores are paid coins to provide virtual entertainment. Aides are paid to be virtual personal secretaries. Guards are paid to be the virtual law enforcement. Most won't actually RP their entire week of work.
Edit: Ooh, now I get what you're asking. Pretend payment for a virtual service. This, I would doubt, since you'd be expending resources without any penalty to yourself.
Not paying someone coded coins for choosing to fade to black is complete bullshit. Coins are coded, sex is not and the right to fade to black is provided for in the rules to the game. All doing this does is punish people for OOC reasons and make it less likely that people will play that type of character. People typically prostitute themselves because they cannot provide for themselves in any other way. Making it so people have to have a second job (second to prostitution) in order to provide for themselves, is kinda silly and unrealistic.
I think that 50-100 'sids for penetration is fair for lower class. More or less depending on how well they take care of themselves/how well they keep their appearances up. Unless we're talking the 'rinth, I'd say 20-50 'sids for penetration. A bit higher class? 100+ for penetration.
Of all the sexual experiences I've encountered IG, I haven't faded. I asked for consent, emote thrusts blahblahblah, and the scene played out. I saw nothing wrong with it.
I would also not have a problem FTB either. It's not that big of a deal to withold coin because the other person didn't emote about them moaning or some other bullshit.
I prefer to FTB, and it's disenheartening to think that people would hold that against me rather than respect my boundaries. That being said, if you hire a whore, you should pay them actual coins regardless. They are a PC that needs to survive just as much as yours does, and it's not fair to hold their OOC personal boundaries against them.
I can see why someone would expect to get what they're paying for though. Maybe the lesson here is you should ask before you hire them.
When a person tortures a victim and either player chooses to fade, the torture took place, and the victim's player must decide how his character was affected via OOC communication with the torturer to determine how the scene panned out (did the victim give up information? did he die during torturing?) The effects are then RPed (the victim sings like a canary or accepts getting attacked and disengages until he dies).
In a similar vein, when a prostitute has sex with a client and either player chooses to fade, the sex took place, and the client's player must decide how his character was affected via OOC communication with the prostitute to determine how the scene panned out. The effects are then RPed (one of which will likely be paying the prostitute).
The point is that an IC action took place even though at least one of the two players decided not to RP it out, but skip the dirty stuff and move right on to what happened next. It is, in essence, unacceptable from an roleplaying standpoint to treat an FTB differently than if the scene was played out, for better or worse. Suck it up and just do what's IC for your character. If your character didn't like it you don't have to use them again.
Quote from: Praetorian on June 20, 2010, 01:33:09 PM
For those of you who play or have played prostitutes do you find most of your 'clients' Fade to Black, or is going through the whole gambit of sweaty thrusting and bodily fluids spraying everywhere the typical expectation? :D
Man, you people have thread derailment down to an absolute artform. This was the original inquiry - a basic desire to know from prostitute players standpoint how often (and by default how well received) fading to black occurs. For the few that gave insight into this, thank you. :) Though the arguments about how much they charge, whether they can be virtually paid, and torture, and all that good stuff is entertaining all the same.
Responding to the original inquiry:
I only enjoy a very moderate amount of spraying bodily fluids.
Some people like silt pearl necklaces. :)
It's late, and I'm tired, so forgive my lack of coherency.
I've played hookers in the past. Well, one in Luirs, and some others who only dabbled on the side at it to supplement an income.
I remember one time some guy paid for some ic youngster's first time with a whore, and we I think faded to black and just talked for a while oocly. I'm not sure if I remember that right, though, because it was many years ago. Though if I were to make a statistical-type guess I'd say about 30 percent of the whore 'business' was with people who FTB. I didn't mind either way, and for the most part I got paid in good old sid.
How many whores are male, in relation to the number of female whores?
Something right around 50:50, despite what in-game NPC populations might dictate.
Quote from: boog on June 20, 2010, 11:51:27 PM
Some people like silt pearl necklaces. :)
Hmm, pink, lavendar or black. I'm really not sure which result would be the worst.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on June 20, 2010, 03:49:07 PM
I've honestly had mudsex only once without fading.....
Mostly because I don't want to put the person on the other end through my emotes..... I can emote -alot- of stuff. But sex ain't one of 'em.
Though a couple of players lately have been giving me the rundown of the basics and whatnot. x]
Also had a few of PCs that would buy any whore available.
One of 'em even wound up being quite a Casanova despite his freak-ass mutations.
FTBing aaaalllll the way.
And just OOCing the basics of went down.
Even passed on a couple of crotch fleas....
Awesome. :)
*Gasp!* YOU BEAT ME TO CROTCH FLEAS!? DAMN YOOOUUUUUUUU!!
Personally sometimes I want to FTB. Sometimes I want to play it out. And anybody who knew who I was would confirm this. Anyways. I'm good at what I do (;
I'd hire prostitute PC's to support their concepts, but personally I'd fade.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 20, 2010, 10:01:26 PM
When a person tortures a victim and either player chooses to fade, the torture took place, and the victim's player must decide how his character was affected via OOC communication with the torturer to determine how the scene panned out (did the victim give up information? did he die during torturing?) The effects are then RPed (the victim sings like a canary or accepts getting attacked and disengages until he dies).
In a similar vein, when a prostitute has sex with a client and either player chooses to fade, the sex took place, and the client's player must decide how his character was affected via OOC communication with the prostitute to determine how the scene panned out. The effects are then RPed (one of which will likely be paying the prostitute).
The point is that an IC action took place even though at least one of the two players decided not to RP it out, but skip the dirty stuff and move right on to what happened next. It is, in essence, unacceptable from an roleplaying standpoint to treat an FTB differently than if the scene was played out, for better or worse. Suck it up and just do what's IC for your character. If your character didn't like it you don't have to use them again.
Right. My point is that the OOC construct of the other player choosing to fade to black should have no bearing on whether or not they are paid with coded coin.
I'd hire a prostitute, but only if it was played by Bogre.
Quote from: Bogre on June 21, 2010, 01:52:18 AM
I'd hire prostitute PC's to support their concepts, but personally I'd fade.
Of course everyone has the right to FTB. But if the client of a FTB whore wants to spread gossip that they were boring, afterwards? Probably fair game as well.
Personally, I hope I don't get into an IC situation to play any more whores anytime soon. It really isn't my favourite kind of role.
I played a rinthi whore years ago who charged 30 sids a pop if i remember rightly. Sometimes I mudsexed, sometimes I faded and got coins, and I also had an ongoing virtual contract with a Byn Sergeant who gave me coins when I hinted I was dangerously low. (She was 100% a whore, no crafting or anything on the side).
It was fun.
I suspect the longer she'd lived, the more I would have faded. I definitely would have expected to be paid because the payment is for virtual sex, not sexual emotes scrolling up your screen...isn't it?
To potential players of whores, i'd say don't underestimate the playerbase. If you have an interesting or fun character, or even if you just play a boring one well, normally there will be players (like Bogre) that support and play with you. Peak and off peak.
I played a male whore once.
Insurmountably difficult to get clients, compared to female whores. I find that you can get even more clients of the female variety with female whores. I definitely could have survived. But there really just isn't the same market you can find for a female whore. Forget about being off-peak in the least, you'll starve.
I actually had an easier time with one of my street sweepers. Templars would walk by my sweeper and toss her coins regularly as she swept up the North Road. Even got hired to clean out the Tooth for a while by a Kuraci Agent. Had a feud with someone that kept knocking over potted plants in front of the Sanc.
For the most part, whoring a big joke to me. I generally hire virtual whores with real coded sids to keep things simple and to-the-point if I have a concept that supports the action. Every now and again I'll hire a whore and hurry up their shit for a FTB. I found that female clients never wanted to appear slutty, so they generally just hired for massages or company. (What the fuck, right? Not that I minded at all, it was far more interesting than virtual secks.)
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 21, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Dude... you need to get away from this point of view that anyone who feels they have a reason to play it out (if the other person is willing) are seeing it as some sort of porn replacement. I'm sure most people prefer to get their fix in real life and aren't a bunch of drooling weirdos who live in their mother's basement. Sometimes there just -are- reasons that have nothing at all to do with getting a personal kick out of it. It's a text game, and is generally played for storytelling purposes.
Quote from: Akaramu on June 21, 2010, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 21, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Dude... you need to get away from this point of view that anyone who feels they have a reason to play it out (if the other person is willing) are seeing it as some sort of porn replacement. I'm sure most people prefer to get their fix in real life and aren't a bunch of drooling weirdos who live in their mother's basement. Sometimes there just -are- reasons that have nothing at all to do with getting a personal kick out of it. It's a text game, and is generally played for storytelling purposes.
First off, this.
Secondly: When you hired one of my pcs for the deed, you didn't fade, either. :P
Third: I'm not saying you shouldn't get paid in actual coins if you're an FTB whore, I'm merely saying that it would be akin to being hired as a hunter for a GMH and never once 'actually' going out to hunt with the explanation that literally all of it happened in virtual time.
Quote from: Akaramu on June 21, 2010, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 21, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Dude... you need to get away from this point of view that anyone who feels they have a reason to play it out (if the other person is willing) are seeing it as some sort of porn replacement. I'm sure most people prefer to get their fix in real life and aren't a bunch of drooling weirdos who live in their mother's basement. Sometimes there just -are- reasons that have nothing at all to do with getting a personal kick out of it. It's a text game, and is generally played for storytelling purposes.
This. I get my kicks elsewhere. But sometimes you have to play it out, to give the hidden assasin time to jump out and murder your john. :P Or for other reasons.
Quote from: Booya on June 21, 2010, 06:56:38 AM
To potential players of whores, i'd say don't underestimate the playerbase. If you have an interesting or fun character, or even if you just play a boring one well, normally there will be players (like Bogre) that support and play with you. Peak and off peak.
Very true, and furthermore, they will support it with more than just sexual encounters.
I've played more than one whore. All of them, without exception, had some secret offers extended to them within a few days of play. Criminal groups offering to include and take care of them, the local law or other parties looking to pay well for valuable pillow talk, rewards for interesting things overheard in taverns. If you play the role ambitiously and make yourself known outside of the bedroom (or alley, as it may be), it can be a very fulfilling role with with potential for a certain degree of power and prestige.
Even if you prefer to stay 100% at the lowest rung of the world, you can still be a perfectly interesting character, and you're making a valuable contribution by showing an "average" person living an average Zalanthan lifestyle. It's much the same for folks who play career grebbers, sweepers, dung haulers, miners, etc. You help bring the world to life!
Is this the thread where I come to brag about my mudsexxin' emotes?
Seriously. This thread is ridiculous.
Quote from: deviant storm on June 21, 2010, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: Akaramu on June 21, 2010, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 21, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Dude... you need to get away from this point of view that anyone who feels they have a reason to play it out (if the other person is willing) are seeing it as some sort of porn replacement. I'm sure most people prefer to get their fix in real life and aren't a bunch of drooling weirdos who live in their mother's basement. Sometimes there just -are- reasons that have nothing at all to do with getting a personal kick out of it. It's a text game, and is generally played for storytelling purposes.
This. I get my kicks elsewhere. But sometimes you have to play it out, to give the hidden assasin time to jump out and murder your john. :P Or for other reasons.
You guys need to be nicer to the hookers of the world!!
They are very nice people... and I even spoke to a few on the Vegas strip.
Its not their faults they can make in one night what I make in 3-4 paychecks. :'( At 40 hours and 8 bucks a hour!
On topic reply:
I have seen/read logs of some the most amusing things ever on Arm, just because you don't fade doesn't mean you wanna whack it. It has the potential for some very amusing things.
Assassin who follows you in, and waits till you get undressed and drop your weapons. Then stabs you!
Immortals have also echoed out some amusing ass things once when things got hot on a balcony.
Burglars need something to amuse themselves with too!
I really could care less if was ftb or consent. Its always up to the other person for me.
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on June 21, 2010, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: deviant storm on June 21, 2010, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: Akaramu on June 21, 2010, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 21, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Dude... you need to get away from this point of view that anyone who feels they have a reason to play it out (if the other person is willing) are seeing it as some sort of porn replacement. I'm sure most people prefer to get their fix in real life and aren't a bunch of drooling weirdos who live in their mother's basement. Sometimes there just -are- reasons that have nothing at all to do with getting a personal kick out of it. It's a text game, and is generally played for storytelling purposes.
This. I get my kicks elsewhere. But sometimes you have to play it out, to give the hidden assasin time to jump out and murder your john. :P Or for other reasons.
You guys need to be nicer to the hookers of the world!!
They are very nice people... and I even spoke to a few on the Vegas strip.
Its not their faults they can make in one night what I make in 3-4 paychecks. :'( At 40 hours and 8 bucks a hour!
On topic reply:
I have seen/read logs of some the most amusing things ever on Arm, just because you don't fade doesn't mean you wanna whack it. It has the potential for some very amusing things.
Assassin who follows you in, and waits till you get undressed and drop your weapons. Then stabs you!
Immortals have also echoed out some amusing ass things once when things got hot on a balcony.
Burglars need something to amuse themselves with too!
I really could care less if was ftb or consent. Its always up to the other person for me.
Had this happen. A couple of things, like this. Once was killed with the assassin who jumped us after the clothes/weapons were off. But my character was a noble's aide and like my second character ever in Arm.
And another time a templar came in. Won't discuss the particulars, because it's too recent. But I've never seen a templar emote being scarred for life like that before. ;D
The key is to eat heavily ahead of time and then draw out the fore-play so long that your partner eventually has to fade or they'll face starvation.
emote lifts one finger, which begins to lead the overall motion of ^me hand in %cutie direction.
emote The hand continuing now about a few more inches forward, @'s eyes seem to communicate intense desire.
emote At least halfway in ^me reach toward the buttons of %cutie shirt, @ makes a deep, rumbling sound.
pemote hand is almost there now! It's approaching the top button!
emote Smiling a roguish smile, @ carefully begins to manipulate the button away from its hooked position in the button-hole of %cutie shirt, which flows luxuriously over ^cutie body and seems to fill !me with gasping pleasure even at the barest whisper of ^me fingertips tracing across the fabric.
Just kidding. I don't do this on purpose. It just naturally happens. :-\
I played a whore once. I wanted to fade a lot because the mudsex got so boring, but I didn't feel like it would be right. Nobody seemed to want to fade.
Instead, I became super economical with all my emotes, and my average turn around time for clients was under a half an hour! I ran...a tight operation. You might say that...business was huge.
Edit: Ok, maybe I was...stretching myself...on that last metaphor.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on June 21, 2010, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: Akaramu on June 21, 2010, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 21, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Dude... you need to get away from this point of view that anyone who feels they have a reason to play it out (if the other person is willing) are seeing it as some sort of porn replacement. I'm sure most people prefer to get their fix in real life and aren't a bunch of drooling weirdos who live in their mother's basement. Sometimes there just -are- reasons that have nothing at all to do with getting a personal kick out of it. It's a text game, and is generally played for storytelling purposes.
First off, this.
Secondly: When you hired one of my pcs for the deed, you didn't fade, either. :P
Third: I'm not saying you shouldn't get paid in actual coins if you're an FTB whore, I'm merely saying that it would be akin to being hired as a hunter for a GMH and never once 'actually' going out to hunt with the explanation that literally all of it happened in virtual time.
Are we talking about having a conversation while "fading" a vnpc in an alley by not elaborating what was going on at the time of the conversating? Because that's funny.
Or are we talking about this one time when I was semi-afk and was like "okay whatever"? Because I'll give you a pass on that.
Or are we talking about the time where my tribal PC got a stained loincloth off a Tuluki noble? Because that was gross.
Entirely different PC than that one. :) But I do remember that one. And your pc was the same one.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on June 21, 2010, 10:17:21 PM
Entirely different PC than that one. :) But I do remember that one. And your pc was the same one.
I did rent a lot of whores with that PC, virtual and player. Yours was the one that got through to emote!
edit: I'm not advocating that everyone stop mudsexing. (I am.) But people should, if they are so inclined, stop feeling that they deserve mudsex by paying for a PC whore. I don't get to torture someone if they don't consent--I just get to kill them. If a whore/otherwise doesn't consent, you get the same treatment.
But you can still kill them! (Upside.)
WARNING! MAY CONTAIN WORDS AND PHRASES THAT NSFW, OR YOUTH INAPPROPRIATE.
I'm awful at writing disclaimers, because I don't have a built in sense of what's appropriate.
I considered writing the mudsex bible.
I've played whores and prostitutes, (there's a difference imo), I've had somewhere around 15 of them.
The amount of times I've had mudsex ig is somewhere around a good 150. And that's lowballing it. I know I could write a huge, humongous post on it, but I doubt anyone would be interested in my Zalanthan Kinsey Report.
About 65% of people FTB. Out of those PC's, about 30% want information on what happened beyond the standard, "Did he get off? Did she get off? Was it good? Done." They want information like body shapes, reactions, movements, preferences, and post-coitus reactions and/or changes.
There's a good 35% that don't want to FTB unless the other person specifically wants to. 50% of these players are absolutely stunning in what they can emote, when they feel they have the downtime and intimacy of player-to-player interaction.
The other 50% can be mindnumbingly dull and repetitive.
That's all OOC stuff. IC'ly, let me explain some misconceptions I had, and some standard recurring themes I discovered.
Women are always preferred over men, when it comes to prostitution. Men however, usually have the ability to charge much more. The average, base standard in a decent economy for sex, is two small. Convenience, location (alley, or apartment), appearance, presence of a pimp or enforcer, and overall skill, can all change price dramatically. My lowest price ever for tricking, is a half skin of water. My highest price ever was with a successful, middle-aged hooker who had a standard clientele, family in the Arm of the Dragon, who also had a fifteen year old rinthi pimp, was one large, and three skins of water. The pimp was not aware of how much I charged, so got a much, much smaller cut than he deserved.
Hooking with a pimp increases protection, allows for versatility, "sure I can come to your house, if my pimp stands outside your door", and can either increase or decrease prices, depending on a vast amount of variables.
Hooking with a pimp is being a prostitute, hooking without one, is being a whore, because as a whore, you're more likely to NEED the money, and thus more likely to take risks, sleep with the creepy, ugly, or those of questionable health.
Having blonde, or petite in your sdesc, drastically increases the amount of people wanting to sleep with you, and pay for it. It's not something I'd expect in zalanthas. Thankfully, there are the hardcore players who prefer 'the plump, swarthy lass' as opposed to the 'skinny, pale blonde'. Strangely, if your sexual parts are mentioned, (with guys, asses should be mentioned), you're less likely to be considered for mating, or sexual recreation.
More on expectations. People expect information when I'm playing a prostitute. Everything from size, to positions, to facial expressions, to attitudes have been asked for when 'F'ing to black'. When roleplaying out the situation, most of these things are offered by the other player, so in general, I return the information. Seems like a good policy.
Remember, wankers, if you want to know how somethings tastes/feels/reacts, offer something analogous in your emote, and it will most likely get returned. Second, if you plan on roleplaying out long sessions, go to a thesaurus website, and get yourself some synonyms, for krath's sake, no one wants to see 'fat cock' typed out sixty different times. And it is NOT always appropriate to use the phrase 'cumhole'. It's just disrespectful.
I once bought someone a hooker. It was a good time. If I ever find out there's PC whores in town I hire the hell out of them. It's my duty!
Disclaimer: I hire them out for other people. >_>
Actually, so do I. When I had my last Salarr officer and my last Byn ooficer, they both hired prostitutes for the people under them...as often as they could be found.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on June 21, 2010, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: Akaramu on June 21, 2010, 08:42:10 AM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 21, 2010, 07:52:52 AM
Anyone who expects no FTB needs to re-evaluate what other options they have available to them for porn or whatever else. I sure as shit wouldn't want to RP hour-long masturbatory thrust & moan scenes.
Dude... you need to get away from this point of view that anyone who feels they have a reason to play it out (if the other person is willing) are seeing it as some sort of porn replacement. I'm sure most people prefer to get their fix in real life and aren't a bunch of drooling weirdos who live in their mother's basement. Sometimes there just -are- reasons that have nothing at all to do with getting a personal kick out of it. It's a text game, and is generally played for storytelling purposes.
First off, this.
Secondly: When you hired one of my pcs for the deed, you didn't fade, either. :P
Third: I'm not saying you shouldn't get paid in actual coins if you're an FTB whore, I'm merely saying that it would be akin to being hired as a hunter for a GMH and never once 'actually' going out to hunt with the explanation that literally all of it happened in virtual time.
Except there's no clause in the game rules that states that the players of hunters can skip hunting scenes if they feel OOCly uncomfortable.
I know that there isn't. I did not mean to imply that it was exactly, precisely, 100% the same thing. What I mean is, it's probably not a good idea to pick a character concept CENTERED around a trade you never plan on actually acting out.
(insert friendly jest) Just because I like emoting to be a debonair, ladykiller prostitute, doesn't me I like to "emote thrusts his sweaty form vigorously." Savvy? (insert cute smiley)
Edit: And what exactly, would make it a not good idea?
I once habitually masturbated with one of my slave characters in the barracks. I didn't emote it out except in funny one-liners like "sneaks into cot and gets to work". I'd change my ldesc, though.
Not acting it out did not make it any less funny when the staff animated an npc to tell my character's master.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 22, 2010, 11:02:43 PM
And what exactly, would make it a not good idea?
It's an opinion. What makes it that way, is me feeling that way.
As with all opinions, it's perfectly fine to ignore.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on June 22, 2010, 11:56:44 PM
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 22, 2010, 11:02:43 PM
And what exactly, would make it a not good idea?
It's an opinion. What makes it that way, is me feeling that way.
As with all opinions, it's perfectly fine to ignore.
Share it.
I'd argue that an independent hunter/merchant/dung collector/spice dealer/anything would quickly starve if they only virtually hunted/traded/shoveled/dealt.
However, an employed any one of these would allow the character to take care of all that messy working-hard-to-stay-alive-in-the-harsh-world-of-Zalanthas-business in their virtual time if the player chooses to do so. And, no yelling yet please, I'd consider this a valid choice to make. Different characters with different goals.
Thus an indi prostitute had better be willing to do some -work-, just like any of the others.
BUT - back on topic:
Played one - quickly snapped up, so little experience with actual work, but not one pc (out of about four or five) asked for a fade.
On payment - agree with Cutthroat - it happened, pay for it, treat it as any other ic event.
Quote from: Preacher on June 24, 2010, 01:52:07 PM
On payment - agree with Cutthroat - it happened, pay for it, treat it as any other ic event.
That's not to say it didn't happen or you shouldn't get paid for it. I'm just saying... I understand why a player might be upset if they hired your character to go out, hunt, and bring them back 10 pelts (so that they could, say, make a jacket, turn a profit, and keep paying indie hunters), and got pissed at you, as a player, if you came back with 10 rped (virtual) pelts, that you hunted in your virtual time, while actually logged off. Sure, you rped it happened. Sure, you rped you have ten pelts. But that's not going to have the same result as you doing it all. Actually going through the motions and doing it. In fact, probably more than a few players would complain.
While I understand that sexual RP is consensual, it would make no sense to make a prostitute character and never expect to act out your characters trade (IMO). Much as you don't have to 'actually' hunt every day you're logged in with your GMH hunter and slacking off altogether will screw over the merchants who depend on the crafts they'd make from the things your hunter brings in, you don't 'have' to play out scenes.
IMO, it's still bullshit to make a prostitute character with the intention of never acting out their trade. Much as it would be bullshit to make a hunter and literally never hunt. Or a merchant who literally never trades, or a sneaky who literally never does sneaky stuff. Once again, just an opinion, but I would think that, on a common sense level, the people who wanted to generally avoid explicit sex RP would avoid making a pc whose trade revolves around the EXACT thing they want to avoid. Much like: I don't like burglars, so I don't play them.
What Amanda said is exactly what I was trying to say (except I think she explained it better).
Ah, I get what you are trying to say. A thought about that:
Players of prostitutes are potentially playing out some foreplay, some pillow talk afterward, or are generally just spending a lot of time around their clients. I think that even if they want to skip the explicit sexual acts, they are still spending time roleplaying their PC's trade, which includes offering one's body to others, building a mental list of regular clients, spending time with those clients, sexily presenting oneself to the world, etc. Being a prostitute is about having sex with other people and getting paid for it, but that is far from the only thing that can be played out. If the player is roleplaying well in the other aspects of being a prostitute but fading for sexually explicit acts, then I honestly don't see how another player could legitimately fault them for their play.
That said, the claim that playing a prostitute revolves around sex RP seems wrong to me. Don't get me wrong; I think sex is certainly a big part of prostitution. But playing a prostitute involves being a salesperson and a socialite as well. And those are things anyone can RP, no consent required.
I would have no issue whatsoever with a prostitute who faded. Though I'm not going to care much if they ooc 'She was amazing at it.' Amazing is a matter of taste, and varies too much...so she'll get a tip, but not a huge one, because I really don't know if the character would've been -that- into her or not.
Just kinda one of those weird things. But I agree with cutthroat. There are plenty of ways to play a prostitute without playing out all the sex scenes. They add to the atmosphere of the game, which is more what I'm worried about.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on June 24, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
Quote from: Preacher on June 24, 2010, 01:52:07 PM
On payment - agree with Cutthroat - it happened, pay for it, treat it as any other ic event.
That's not to say it didn't happen or you shouldn't get paid for it. I'm just saying... I understand why a player might be upset if they hired your character to go out, hunt, and bring them back 10 pelts (so that they could, say, make a jacket, turn a profit, and keep paying indie hunters), and got pissed at you, as a player, if you came back with 10 rped (virtual) pelts, that you hunted in your virtual time, while actually logged off. Sure, you rped it happened. Sure, you rped you have ten pelts. But that's not going to have the same result as you doing it all. Actually going through the motions and doing it. In fact, probably more than a few players would complain.
While I understand that sexual RP is consensual, it would make no sense to make a prostitute character and never expect to act out your characters trade (IMO). Much as you don't have to 'actually' hunt every day you're logged in with your GMH hunter and slacking off altogether will screw over the merchants who depend on the crafts they'd make from the things your hunter brings in, you don't 'have' to play out scenes.
IMO, it's still bullshit to make a prostitute character with the intention of never acting out their trade. Much as it would be bullshit to make a hunter and literally never hunt. Or a merchant who literally never trades, or a sneaky who literally never does sneaky stuff. Once again, just an opinion, but I would think that, on a common sense level, the people who wanted to generally avoid explicit sex RP would avoid making a pc whose trade revolves around the EXACT thing they want to avoid. Much like: I don't like burglars, so I don't play them.
Whatever, those aren't comparable. Being short both 10 hides and 200 'sid is something that affects your character IC-wise. If you get FTB'd after buying a hooker, you character ICly hasn't been robbed of anything.
When it comes to a FTB sex scene, your character codedly has no more or no less benefit than they do with a fully played out sex scene. The only difference is whether or not the
player gets to engage in cybersex. Whether or not the player gets to engage in cybersex is an utterly OOC matter which should have no bearing at all on IC matters (like how much the prostitute is paid).
Really there should be no pity for people who exchange IG goods for OOC benefits, or vice versa. I don't think there's anything wrong with people interested in roleplaying prostitues not actually wanting to be actual prostitutes...selling cybersex for IG items. As for the people who get upset when they don't actually get cybersex in exchange for their 'sids...WTF? Do they even exist?
Kevo, I found your post both illuminating and lucid. Thanks for putting it out there.
Quote from: Kevo on June 22, 2010, 12:22:07 AM
Remember, wankers, if you want to know how somethings tastes/feels/reacts, offer something analogous in your emote, and it will most likely get returned. Second, if you plan on roleplaying out long sessions, go to a thesaurus website, and get yourself some synonyms, for krath's sake, no one wants to see 'fat cock' typed out sixty different times.
Overweight cock?
Corpulent cock?
Portly cock?
Stout cock?
Big boned cock?
Hefty cock?
Chubby cock?
Morbidly obese cock?
Agree with Bluefae though. Nice post. Thanks.
Amanda is right - if you play a prostitute, you should be prepared to play the ensuing couplings.
You shouldn't play a citizen of Allanak, then, if you can't play through torture. There are templars around, after all and they have the power/privilege to do so whenever they want.
Hey! You shouldn't play a character at all if you can't play through a rape scene. I mean, honestly, people get raped just like prostitutes get their nookie on. I mean, come on. If you can't play through a rape scene, you shouldn't make a character in this game.
[/sarcasm]
I don't think I need to say much else, but I will anyway, so that this post isn't all catty. Honestly, people play character they want to play for different reason. You can play a slut because you think your character should be a slut without being forced to to play that character in a certain way. Deal with it. If your character gets nookie and the deal was that your character will pay for it, your character should... and you having your character refuse because YOU didn't get virtual nookie? That's an OOC decision affecting IC actions. Poor roleplay.
Now, I understand the argument that if you are playing a warrior that becomes a soldier, you'd better be prepared to roleplay through bashing heads and killing folks. Understandable that this should be expected. None of those things require consent, though. THAT is the big difference. Anything requiring consent to proceed with the scene, our character should be able to engage in those things without US having to engage in those things. I think the argument that 'you chose your character's profession so should be prepared to roleplay it' may have a point, but it still doesn't stack up against that 'consent' issue. It takes things OOC that should be IC. Let people play their characters and be the better person and a better roleplayer by not letting your OOC wants/desires affect our characterss IC wants/desires/actions, okay?
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on June 26, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
Amanda is right - if you play a prostitute, you should be prepared to play the ensuing couplings.
No one is ever obligated to roleplay out sex. Ever. Posts like those can mislead people into believing otherwise.
My most successful prostitute PC was very prolific, but I was always extremely cautious about consent. Even if it was someone who had RP'd it before, prior to things getting graphic, I would OOCly offer to fade or request consent and verification of 18+ age. You never know when peoples' minds will change, you never know if someone is just there for flavor or if they'd actually like to play things out. If you just assume and go ahead with it, that's a violation of the other player's right to refuse. Yes, the vast majority of my PCs' customers preferred to not fade, but you can never be too careful.
By the same token, it should never be the expectation that the prostitute PC won't fade. Taking the role is not auto-consent for sexual RP. There were times when I just didn't feel like playing it out, so I was the one choosing to fade. Others may just like the idea, but not the sweaty details. Just as my past Templar character always faded when he tortured people (frequently), so too am I not obligated to play out another kind of sensitive topic.
Of course, as others have said, I agree that fading should still be treated as though the service was given. If my PC hadn't been paid, she'd have been calling her "collection agency" for help.
Quote from: spawnloser on June 26, 2010, 02:19:24 PM
You shouldn't play a citizen of Allanak, then, if you can't play through torture. There are templars around, after all and they have the power/privilege to do so whenever they want.
Hey! You shouldn't play a character at all if you can't play through a rape scene. I mean, honestly, people get raped just like prostitutes get their nookie on. I mean, come on. If you can't play through a rape scene, you shouldn't make a character in this game.
[/sarcasm]
I want to play a merchant who only sells virtual goods, but you better damn well pay me for them!!!
I want to play a bard who never actually RPs singing songs, but you better damn well pay me for FTBing after I walk up on stage.
Seriously though, as Niamh said, no one is ever obligated to roleplay out sex.
As common sense says, if you don't want to roleplay out a sex scene, pick one of the 20,000 possible professions other than prostitution. COMMON SENSE.
To add to my previous post:
Use common sense. Don't play roles that will put you in positions you will feel uncomfortable with.
If you don't like having strict guidelines and being responsible for other PCs and doing OOC reports, don't apply for leadership roles.
If you don't feel comfortable with racism being directed toward you, don't play a half-elf.
If you don't like being stuck in the wilderness for long periods of time, don't app a non-ranger.
If you don't like the confines of the walls, don't join the Byn.
If you don't like the tediousness of the crafting code, don't play a crafting merchant.
If you don't like roleplaying alone, don't play in Red Storm, the Sewers or Gielgias.
If you don't like the idea of torture, don't app a maniacal serial killer who likes to torture his victims before doing them in.
If you don't like being in virtual sexual situations, don't apply for a virtual sex dealer.
FW is totally wrong about Gielgias. It's a great place to hang out, lots of company.
Quote from: Lizzie on June 26, 2010, 09:46:15 PM
FW is totally wrong about Gielgias. It's a great place to hang out, lots of company.
SHHHH!!! I like it being my own little hangout!
Quote from: Fantasy Writer
As common sense says, if you don't want to roleplay out a sex scene, pick one of the 20,000 possible professions other than prostitution. COMMON SENSE.
If you don't like being in virtual sexual situations, don't apply for a virtual sex dealer.
I agreed with you on your other examples, but common sense doesn't say this.
Common sense says if you don't want to roleplay a prostitute, don't play a prostitute.
Roleplaying a prostitute does not necessarily require roleplaying sex, because we are not forced to roleplay sex scenes for any reason. Roleplaying a prostitute involves, IMO, adding flavor to the game in the form of being a salesperson and a socialite in the world. It does not require any willingness to roleplay a sex scene.
When you are playing a prostitute, you are playing a PC that is selling his or her own body. You are
not selling mudsex. There can be a situation where a player is perfectly fine with playing out the other aspects of prostitution but not the virtual sex. Think about what a prostitute has to do to get someone to have sex with him/her before any sex actually takes place.
Um, depends. A concubine's main job isn't sex..however a prostitute's is, pretty much by definition. And sex can vary from a night in someone's apartment, totally naked, exposed, avialable for easy backstabbing during the throbbing whatevers of sweaty lust, or as quick and easy as a blow-job in a back alley, which would leave the prostitute vulnerable, because she'd be the one on her knees (or he).
But yes, that IS the main function of a prostitute. To provide sexual services for his/her customers. That's what makes him/her a prostitute, and not a hunter, or an armor merchant, or a noble, or a bartender, or a clothier. A prostitute might make pretty silk clothing as a hobby, or on the side. And a hunter might sell sexual favors. But a hunter's primary job, is being a hunter. And a prostitute's primary job, is selling sex.
I don't disagree with that Lizzie. Again, a prostitute sells sex, but doesn't sell mudsex. That is my point. A prostitute can RP his/her trade without going into mudsex. It can be all about RPing the other aspects of being a prostitute, and fading through the sex. The sex is still there; it's just not roleplayed, because it doesn't have to be roleplayed, ever.
I think the original posters question has been more than answered... on the first page.
This is one of those subjects where everyone has their own opinion and isn't going to budge very far with it.
Probably best to let this one fade away.
So if my serial whore-killer only stabs his victim during the 9th thrust..
how do I fade it?
Exchange of coins and brief 2-line foreplay ensues.
The prostitute oocs, "ok let's fade"
ooc Okay we have to actually get undressed though.
The prostitute oocs, "we just do it virtually, saves time. so I'm undressed, and so are you, and I sit on you and we go at it awhile."
ooc uh..sorry but that can't happen that way, because your character needs to actually BE undressed.
The prostitute oocs, "really - just fade and we're done now and I was good but not great, and we're sweaty."
ooc No can do, because I need to be able to kill you.
The prostitute has just left Armageddon.
You are now locked in the prostitute's apartment, and she logged out with your sids.
If someone wants to play a whore who fades it doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world. If they get less repeat business than the whore who doesn't fade, that may just be a reality. It hardly seems like a big deal to me. As for the serial killer. ooc On the ninth thrust my guy pulls out a knife. let's take it from here, or figure out what happens.
Hey as long as she has a script that has her spam-remove all that chitinous plate armor she bought to protect herself when she goes scrab hunting as a side job, it's all good. But if shes gonna "virtually" take off her clothes, then I'm gonna "virtually" pay her and find some other way of killing her another time.
Well, you go ahead and do what you have to do.
To me:
Virtually: Happened when I'm not online. So when the prostitute is working when I'm not making decisions, and yes, they will take virtual coin, and buy virtual food, and do virtual things.
Fade: Something that happened while online, and is a result of decsions made by the PC's involved.
Man, it's kind of funny to see people worked up about spending 100 sids on a fade.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 26, 2010, 11:35:02 PM
Man, it's kind of funny to see people worked up about spending 100 sids on a fade.
Most hookers I've seen have gone anywhere from 300 to 1000.
Average seems to be 300-400.
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on June 26, 2010, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 26, 2010, 11:35:02 PM
Man, it's kind of funny to see people worked up about spending 100 sids on a fade.
Most hookers I've seen have gone anywhere from 300 to 1000.
Average seems to be 300-400.
... what... the fuck... are people doing charging over a month's wages for decently ranked employees in well-paid organizations?
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 26, 2010, 09:42:55 PM
To add to my previous post:
Use common sense. Don't play roles that will put you in positions you will feel uncomfortable with.
If you don't like having strict guidelines and being responsible for other PCs and doing OOC reports, don't apply for leadership roles.
If you don't feel comfortable with racism being directed toward you, don't play a half-elf.
If you don't like being stuck in the wilderness for long periods of time, don't app a non-ranger.
If you don't like the confines of the walls, don't join the Byn.
If you don't like the tediousness of the crafting code, don't play a crafting merchant.
If you don't like roleplaying alone, don't play in Red Storm, the Sewers or Gielgias.
If you don't like the idea of torture, don't app a maniacal serial killer who likes to torture his victims before doing them in.
If you don't like being in virtual sexual situations, don't apply for a virtual sex dealer.
Why? You're acting like you can't find enjoyment in a role as a prostitute, while fading. You're acting like there will be consequences if you do this. There should be none. If people think they will enjoy playing a prostitute that fades then let them, and don't tell them they lack common sense for doing it. Like cutthroat said. There's more to a prostitutes life than just sex.
As for hooker prices. You'd have to be insane to pay over 200 coins. Then again I'd never buy a hooker in real life, so...
Quote from: Is Friday on June 26, 2010, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on June 26, 2010, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 26, 2010, 11:35:02 PM
Man, it's kind of funny to see people worked up about spending 100 sids on a fade.
Most hookers I've seen have gone anywhere from 300 to 1000.
Average seems to be 300-400.
... what... the fuck... are people doing charging over a month's wages for decently ranked employees in well-paid organizations?
Selling their bodies. The value of something is what someone is willing to pay. Can see a RL prostitute charging a few thousand dollars without any trouble. Can imagine one charging five dollars. Perhaps most folk would rather play the successful courtesan than the whore giving handjobs for pocket change in a back alley, and therefore the average is tilted rather to the high side.
At fifty sid, the 'sid will pay for enough food and water to last through the scene and not much more. At a small, you're affordable and maybe actually able to make a living on it. At two, you're respectable... three to a large seems to be moving into luxury-good territory, and any higher and I tip my hat to your reputation and talent for marketing among the rich circles.
Regardless of the profession of character I'm playing, most everyone I encounter in situations calling for it are kind enough to ask for consent, and I am often pleasantly surprised or pleasantly disappointed as the scene progresses. (On the lines of, I was expecting to be brutalized, where's my brutalizing?) But just because you ask for consent on something doesn't mean you -have- to continue on to do it, I can live with a little unpredictability. ;) And just because I'm in the mood to have my criminal tortured/prostitute sexed up/captive raped/mutant mutilated doesn't mean I can insist the person in control of the situation does so....
Player 1 OOC: Consent to mutilate me granted.
Player 2 OOC: Okay, I wasn't planning on it, but I'll remember if I decide I want to?
...Huh, I got from having a firm opinion to wandering off on idle daydreams involving the silliness of reverse consent.
I can't believe this thread is still going, and I can't believe I'm replying, but I think I have a point/suggestion that hasn't been mentioned!
As for my personal opinion part, as everyone in this thread is entitled to: I would never personally play a prostitute because I don't want to RP sex with players I don't have an OOC comfort zone built up with. However, if people want all the roleplay aspects of playing one (and there are very real and valid ones) without explicit sex roleplay, that's perfectly fine. It's not up to us to dictate comfort zones people -should- have, or tell people how to play the game. That's what documentation is for.
Now, my suggestion: Sex roleplay doesn't have to be all or nothing, down and dirty or not at all. People have mentioned that fading takes away putting PCs in vulnerable or compromising positions (no pun intended). It is very possible to do nicely done roleplay "glosses" without being explicit that still would leave opportunities for robbing, beating, stealing, crying during sex, etc. to be played out. OOC is a tool that can be used to communicate things like this also. You can say, for instance, that you're down to roleplay sex, but would like it to be vague and not cringe-worthy explicit because you're not comfortable with that. And the other person can go with it, or you two can just decide to fade, or whatever! It still leaves the opening for the whole "vulnerable" aspect of sex and sexuality, which in my opinion, can be excellent RP, all the actual sex act aside.
Just a tidbit!
I've paid for a fade or two in the past, happily. I can say that even though I've mudsexxxed it up with the best of them in the past, I'd probably never play a prostitute. The reality of the mindset is not something I'm interested in playing out (though it made for great background, once), and I personally like to avoid the "is selling sex IC actually selling mudsex?" question entirely.
As to pricing, gawd. Even my one rich, whore-hungry character could seldom bring himself to justify paying too much above a small for -anything- sexual. Not to mention -everyone- immediately seems to get their fingers in the whore (hur hur) as an informant, which seems odd for your average hooker, but what can I say? Even my average grebbers/dung-shovelers tend to be far from average. Just the nature of the game.
One thing that always kind of bugged me (and believe me, I'm not a super-conservative dude or anything), is how readily PCs seem to be to sell their bodies sometimes. In a world like Zalanthas, it seems to me that your body is sometimes the only thing you actually -own-. Giving up that last teensy shred of dignity and control seems like it should be incredibly damaging and tough, in my opinion. And you know what? It just may be for most of those PCs, and I don't see it because I'm out chopping up motherfuckers with bone swords. :P And it could be that people tend towards an idealized look at prostitution. Though now that I think of it, I've seen some people illustrate the brutality of it wonderfully...
I've had pcs try to explain to my pcs that there was no reason they shouldn't whore. It was annoying. In some cases it felt like people were saying Hey look at me! I read the docs! Well, hello, I read the docs too, and not being a whore is as valid as not being a guard or a cook or hunter.
Quote from: Barzalene on June 27, 2010, 02:03:35 AM
I've had pcs try to explain to my pcs that there was no reason they shouldn't whore. It was annoying. In some cases it felt like people were saying Hey look at me! I read the docs! Well, hello, I read the docs too, and not being a whore is as valid as not being a guard or a cook or hunter.
I've found that annoying too. Not only explanations, but very negative reactions to someone having reasons for not whoring.
Are character not allowed to have opinions anymore?
Sometimes characters state their opinions as if it's an OOC lecture from the player.
Maybe that's not the way it's intended, but it comes across that way.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 26, 2010, 11:43:29 PM
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on June 26, 2010, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: Is Friday on June 26, 2010, 11:35:02 PM
Man, it's kind of funny to see people worked up about spending 100 sids on a fade.
Most hookers I've seen have gone anywhere from 300 to 1000.
Average seems to be 300-400.
... what... the fuck... are people doing charging over a month's wages for decently ranked employees in well-paid organizations?
5 skins of water at the temple of the dragon.
Just sayin.
Or: 2 skins of water, 3 pieces of fruit, and 20 sid.
Seriously. It seems like a lot on that pay grade, but if you look at it in accordance to the price of living, it's really not much.
In ancient greece, it was average for the BOTTOM of the heap, absolutely hideous, worn-out prostitutes to charge the price of 2 loaves of bread, and it would typically range up to the price of ten loaves.
I think the pricing is realistic, in that sense. Most of the pc prostitutes who get any action are not going to be absolutely hideous, worn out, and bad at what they do.
Quote from: Niamh on June 26, 2010, 06:27:17 PM
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on June 26, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
Amanda is right - if you play a prostitute, you should be prepared to play the ensuing couplings.
No one is ever obligated to roleplay out sex. Ever. Posts like those can mislead people into believing otherwise.
I did not mean to imply that it was a necessity, only to share my opinion on the matter, personally. Hence the disclaimers.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 26, 2010, 09:42:55 PM
To add to my previous post:
Use common sense. Don't play roles that will put you in positions you will feel uncomfortable with.
If you don't like having strict guidelines and being responsible for other PCs and doing OOC reports, don't apply for leadership roles.
If you don't feel comfortable with racism being directed toward you, don't play a half-elf.
If you don't like being stuck in the wilderness for long periods of time, don't app a non-ranger.
If you don't like the confines of the walls, don't join the Byn.
If you don't like the tediousness of the crafting code, don't play a crafting merchant.
If you don't like roleplaying alone, don't play in Red Storm, the Sewers or Gielgias.
If you don't like the idea of torture, don't app a maniacal serial killer who likes to torture his victims before doing them in.
If you don't like being in virtual sexual situations, don't apply for a virtual sex dealer.
My opinion in all of the above. Hence why I don't play warriors or burglars. I don't enjoy sparring, and I don't enjoy breaking into other people's apartments.
Quote from: Lizzie on June 26, 2010, 10:36:20 PM
Um, depends. A concubine's main job isn't sex..however a prostitute's is, pretty much by definition. And sex can vary from a night in someone's apartment, totally naked, exposed, avialable for easy backstabbing during the throbbing whatevers of sweaty lust, or as quick and easy as a blow-job in a back alley, which would leave the prostitute vulnerable, because she'd be the one on her knees (or he).
But yes, that IS the main function of a prostitute. To provide sexual services for his/her customers. That's what makes him/her a prostitute, and not a hunter, or an armor merchant, or a noble, or a bartender, or a clothier. A prostitute might make pretty silk clothing as a hobby, or on the side. And a hunter might sell sexual favors. But a hunter's primary job, is being a hunter. And a prostitute's primary job, is selling sex.
Couldn't agree more.
Quote from: Cutthroat on June 26, 2010, 10:40:44 PM
I don't disagree with that Lizzie. Again, a prostitute sells sex, but doesn't sell mudsex. That is my point. A prostitute can RP his/her trade without going into mudsex. It can be all about RPing the other aspects of being a prostitute, and fading through the sex. The sex is still there; it's just not roleplayed, because it doesn't have to be roleplayed, ever.
While I agree that it doesn't have to be, I think, as I said earlier, that you shouldn't pick a concept where you are uncomfortable plying the meat of their trade. Simply because it's not coded doesn't make it any less the meat of their trade.
Sure you don't have to roleplay it, ever. But I would be pissed at a prostitute's player who insisted on an FTB. Not because I didn't get to have mudsex, but because it would aggravate me. Much as hiring a hunter who never hunted. Or a merchant who never crafted anything.
I understand one results in a coded good and the other results in rp only. Now imagine taking the rp away, much as you would take the coded good away.
And THAT is what aggravates me about it.
No, it's not fair, and it's not right. But if I'm hiring a prostitute, which I have done on more than one occasion in the past, I generally request a fade, go afk for a cigarette, then hash the details out when I get back. But, personally, I DO feel it should be my option to choose to fade there, rather than an enforced option of the player of the sex worker to deprive the scene of RP that I may or may not want to play through. And yes, if you do fade, as a pc prostitute, my character's probably going to say 'Hey, they were mediocre. I'm gonna pay a different skank next time.'
What if the player of the prostitute just doesn't feel like mudsexing that day? Or thinks your mudsexing style is whack and doesn't want to do it with you? Or suspects you're fourteen years old?
But needs to the sids to keep alive their character/concept.
You're really saying they should do it anyway because they're playing a whore? Or log out? Or store?
Ludicrous.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that if you want to ftb 90+% of the time, chances are, you are uncomfortable with mudsex. And if you are uncomfortable participating in sexual scenarios IC, it is MY OPINION that you should not, generally, be playing a prostitute.
Not that you should be FORCED to roleplay it out. Not that you should log out. And finally, not that you should store.
I never said any of those things.
I think in a scenario with a male client and a female whore, if the male wants to fade, let him do his fade emote. The as the whore does her fade emote, she should slip in that she was secretly packing a hefty tandu sausage.
The studly fellow drops his pants and rocks your world.
emote Dropping her pants as well, @ shows you a -big- surpise, and then proceeds to rock your world in return.
Hmm. Another reason to keep around a bit of that starting gear.
Quote from: Booya on June 27, 2010, 09:27:44 AM
What if the player of the prostitute just doesn't feel like mudsexing that day? Or thinks your mudsexing style is whack and doesn't want to do it with you? Or suspects you're fourteen years old?
But needs to the sids to keep alive their character/concept.
You're really saying they should do it anyway because they're playing a whore? Or log out? Or store?
Ludicrous.
That's pretty cogent. And things I had not thought of.
I do not think the issue here is that whores are over pricing.
I think everyone else is under paid. I always thought that though.
Then again those people get water and food for their work. Which is one reason they get paid crap.
Soo... Start paying hookers in food/water then guys!
"So.. how about a handjob, half a skin of water? Ad sex three skins of water, mm?"
Quote from: BlackMagic0 on June 27, 2010, 10:14:08 AM
I do not think the issue here is that whores are over pricing.
I think everyone else is under paid. I always thought that though.
Then again those people get water and food for their work. Which is one reason they get paid crap.
Soo... Start paying hookers in food/water then guys!
"So.. how about a handjob, half a skin of water? Ad sex three skins of water, mm?"
Done it.
And I'd like to see it more, even. I think it'd add a lot to the feel of the world. Though your spice addict whores might not be down so much for it. :P
Quote from: netflix on June 27, 2010, 09:46:08 AM
I think in a scenario with a male client and a female whore, if the male wants to fade, let him do his fade emote. The as the whore does her fade emote, she should slip in that she was secretly packing a hefty tandu sausage.
The studly fellow drops his pants and rocks your world.
emote Dropping her pants as well, @ shows you a -big- surpise, and then proceeds to rock your world in return.
I think that's all good. I just think that a PC prostitute that ALWAYS fades has it relatively easy compared to the people that have to actually spend TIME earning their sid.
Amanda brings up a point...
when you're a merchant, you have the code to show your customer that goods and sids were exchanged.
when you're a hunter, you have the code to show that critters are dead and you have meat/hides/bone or a failed attempt to show for your coded efforts.
when you're a prostitute selling sex, all you have, are emotes. There is no code to back up sex. If that is your main method of earning coded sids, then your customer isn't paying for a bit of turquoise, or a striped yellow and tan skin, or a gourd of water, or a glow-crystal, or a silk gown. The customer is paying for what can -only- be provided, via emotes.
If you fade, you deprive the customer of what they paid for. If you need to fade in such detail that the customer's player can easily describe exactly what happened, then you're not really fading at all. You're just narrating the details OOCly instead of using emotes.
It just seems pretty pointless to play someone whose primary job revolves around sex, if you are unwilling to -ever- actually act it out. If you go into the role knowing in advance that you will ALWAYS fade, then why bother at all? Why not just play something else, where you don't have to always fade, where you can feel comfortable actually roleplaying out what you're doing?
In summation, if you're gonna play a whore who doesn't play out the scenes....
Go right ahead.
Just don't expect much business from people who -want- to play them out.
I think, in case anyone wondered that my initial reaction was that choosing to play a whore but not expecting sex to be a part of that was counterintuitive. I think there are other roles where you would do many of the things that a whore might rp without the explicit expectation of sex.
That said, I'm not going to try to tell other people what to play or not to. And I think that fading should never preclude payment.
But mostly, I'm surprised that people are so invested in the argument. Some people will fade a lot, some people will mudsex a lot, and the mud will go out as it does, as it has, as it will. This doesn't seem like a big deal.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 27, 2010, 10:37:03 AM
Quote from: netflix on June 27, 2010, 09:46:08 AM
I think in a scenario with a male client and a female whore, if the male wants to fade, let him do his fade emote. The as the whore does her fade emote, she should slip in that she was secretly packing a hefty tandu sausage.
The studly fellow drops his pants and rocks your world.
emote Dropping her pants as well, @ shows you a -big- surpise, and then proceeds to rock your world in return.
I think that's all good. I just think that a PC prostitute that ALWAYS fades has it relatively easy compared to the people that have to actually spend TIME earning their sid.
ICly, they've both worked just as hard and spent time earning their money.
In my opinion, a prostitute character who routinely fades is perfectly valid. Let me explain why. Think about another form of roleplay, namely film acting. There are numerous examples of prostitute roles which have resulted in Oscar nominations and awards. I bet in most cases there was nothing beyond a FTB, if even that much. Is a prostitute role in a movie pointless if there's no on-screen sex? I think the answer is no. (On a side note, I'm not suggesting that awards are the best measure of quality acting. What I am saying is that there is a history of substantial prostitute roles that needn't depict sex at all.)
My point is there may be other reasons the role is worthwhile other than roleplayed sex. Maybe the occupation is essential to the role, but the depiction of the intimate scenes is not.
Finally, on the issue of payment. It's natural to wonder how can anyone expect a prostitute character to be paid if they're always going to fade. But as others have said, the payment is not in exchange for mudsex. I have a feeling some people find the payment part objectionable because the prostitute character is getting something for nothing. In other words, it might seem like that character is somehow gaming the system by getting paid without "earning" it. What I'd say to that is that being paid is a necessity to a character's survival. As I said before, there may be valid reasons to play that kind of role that have nothing at all to do with sex. Yet for the role to continue on, at some point some actual coins (or food and water) have to be entering the picture.
No one's going to play a prostitute to try to game the economy somehow. Some coins are just necessary to keep the role going forward. When I hear talk about "virtual coins" it just sounds like an effort to punish other players, or even manipulate them into not fading. And really what that means is a player is being punished for opting to play something outside of the typical palette of characters. (It's like people wondering why there aren't more bards, and then they don't pay bards, but I digress.) In any case, utilizing the services of a prostitute character is always optional. Still, I think it's good to support players who want to play something different.
Everyone knows prostitutes are just a way to get people behind locked doors so you can PK them.
If I hire a prostitute and they don't mudsex with me, I'm going to start filing player complaints. Just like I file player complaints on people that don't agree to torture scenes.
Quote from: Niamh on June 27, 2010, 11:28:55 AM
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 27, 2010, 10:37:03 AM
Quote from: netflix on June 27, 2010, 09:46:08 AM
I think in a scenario with a male client and a female whore, if the male wants to fade, let him do his fade emote. The as the whore does her fade emote, she should slip in that she was secretly packing a hefty tandu sausage.
The studly fellow drops his pants and rocks your world.
emote Dropping her pants as well, @ shows you a -big- surpise, and then proceeds to rock your world in return.
I think that's all good. I just think that a PC prostitute that ALWAYS fades has it relatively easy compared to the people that have to actually spend TIME earning their sid.
ICly, they've both worked just as hard and spent time earning their money.
So are these also kosher?
>south
East of the Scion Gates
Some figures in Kadian hunting abas are hear riding various mounts.
>weather west
The weather looks pretty rough out there.
>ooc Um. I don't feel comfortable putting myself in a position that my PC might get lost
or eaten by a pack of kryl, so peace out.. see you when you guys get back for payday.
>north
The eloquently dressed noble sits at a small table near the door.
>tell noble (dipping his head respectfully) Are you ready Chosen Lord?
The eloquently dressed noble nods simply removing the cord from his ponytail to let his hair fall down about his shoulders.
>emote cuts %noble hair and holds his hand out for payment.
The eloquently dressed noble just blinks.
OOC: sorry, I don't really have time to cut emote out cutting your hair today.Should these two people get paid the same as someone who had 1. gone out hunting with the group and took the same chances they did or 2. actually spent a few minutes to describe how they were fulfilling their non-code-supported trades and sent the PC a short Tdesc describing their hair?
Quote from: RulesApart from the requirement that people roleplay realistically here, there are few restrictions on roleplay in Armageddon. If you choose to roleplay adult situations, that is fine. However, before instigating such an act with another player, please OOC to make sure that the roleplay is consented to. If someone is instigating roleplay that makes you (the player) uncomfortable, please OOC that they should stop. If they continue despite being told to stop, please wish up. This rule is not meant to be abused in order to allow characters to escape death/torture/etc., but is intended for adult situations, such as torture or rape, which some players and staff may not wish to witness. If you act out a graphic sequence without first obtaining the other player's consent, and the player then complains within a reasonable amount of time (so that the runlogs can be checked and the complaint verified), you will be permanently banned.
Do I expect for a prostitute to act out a scene if they don't want to? No, I don't. It would be wrong of me to expect otherwise and I should be permanently banned as the rules state.
Should ANYONE (be they prostitutes, hunters, barbers, assassins, grebbers, magickers or persons of any other trade) expect to be paid every time for virtual services rendered when there are other PCs of the exact same trade out there spending the time and taking the risk to earn the same sid for the same job? No, it would be wrong of them to take advantage of Players like that.
I always have been entertained by the length of Mudsex. It doesn't have to last a day and night. It can just be a down and dirty alleyway ballfest, if that is what you want.
Seriously? Get over it.
If your pc is relying on actual played out mudsex then you have far more imaginative concept than I could ever come up with.
But seriously? Seriously? This is worth arguing over?
There's mudsex and then there's mudsex. Describing what went on doesn't need to take very long or be especially titillating.
Expecting other players to write soft porn for you is...I hope what this thread isn't about.
Quote from: Niamh on June 26, 2010, 06:27:17 PM
Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on June 26, 2010, 01:01:09 PM
Amanda is right - if you play a prostitute, you should be prepared to play the ensuing couplings.
No one is ever obligated to roleplay out sex. Ever. Posts like those can mislead people into believing otherwise.
This quote, and the supporting documentation should shut down ANY and all
IG disputes about whether or not pro's can FTB, because it's the player who fades to black, not the char. And Players have more rights.
But onto this elaborate hypothetical situation, and all the crap that's come with it.
Question, would it be reasonable to make a bard, who never rp's singing or entertaining? A masseuse, who never rp's massaging? A hair stylist, who doesn't even own scissors because he fades to black each barbering session?
If your answer is: That's not the same, sex is different, then you are indeed correct, but consider this;
Can I make a professional torturer (interrogator, cuddler operator, etc), who never actually rp's out any torture scenes? Sex may be different, but it's covered by the same clauses as those that cover torture and rape. In effect, player's right's overrule the necessity for roleplay of 'uncomfortable, taboo things'.
But why make a char to whom 'uncomfortable, taboo things' are an everyday EXPECTATION (not player expectation IG, IC, Zalanthan expectation), if you never plan on rp'ing them out?
I'm not saying this has been done, or will be done, or is being considering, but that seems to be the meat of the questions going around, when you cut off the snarky fat. (humor, please)
In essence, this is a roleplaying game. Roleplay those things you love to play, and try to avoid roleplaying those things you don't. Period, end of the line.
Oh, and if you happen to pay for a FTB sexual encounter, and this bothers you, don't get upset, have your char find an IC reason to not want that again, such as E.D., reminds you of your mother, smelled something funny, or you embarassed yourself. Or, you were generally just unsatisfied. Don't blame it on the player, give them that much freedom, but, always feel free to blame it on the char, that's what they're there for.
Sidenote: Magickers have better sex than anyone out there except possibly mindworms, because of the awesome cantrips, and sexual/magical exploration.
I was thinking about playing a prostitute pc sometime. This thread has changed my mind. The idea that people actually get upset about others not wanting to emote out all the gory details of every sexual encounter and encouraging others to come up with excuses not to interact with them again over it, or not to pay them with coded coin, etc....frankly, it disgusts me and completely turns me off on the idea of playing such characters. I have only once not faded to black in a sexual encounter and I always will do so simply for the fact that I cannot help but picture that the person on the other end is getting off on it. It makes me extremely uncomfortable. The fact that people are actually getting upset about people who ftb for sexual encounters further makes me feel that some people are here to cyber more than to roleplay.
Or...I may just play it out and then throw in something fucked up to mess with them in case they are getting off on it.
*after emoting out in realistic detail the encounter up to this point*
>emote grunts, violently ejaculating all over the place. It is like a storm of liquid salt.
>say (panting) Ahhh...well fuck. See ya later.
>s
No one is getting upset about others not wanting to emote out all the gory details of every sexual encounter and encouraging others to come up with excuses not to interact with them again over it, or not to pay them with coded coin, etc. Well except maybe you.
I haven't seen a single post in this entire thread, by anyone claiming they were even vaguely interested in insisting that anyone emote out all the gory details of every sexual encounter.
I haven't seen a single post by anyone "encouraging" anyone to come up with excuses not to interact with anyone ever again.
I haven't seen a single post by anyone encouraging people not to pay with coded coin.
What I HAVE seen, is some people saying it's pretty weird to intentionally play a very specific type of character, and yet refuse to ever actually roleplay out the primary function of that character's job.
What I HAVE seen, is some people saying that -they- come up with excuses not to interact with them again - and suggesting that IF someone else agrees, then there are reasonable IC excuses you can come up with, if you choose not to interact with that person, so that you don't have to turn it into an OOC slug-match.
What I HAVE seen, is some people saying that -they- would not be willing to pay coded coins for faded sex.
What I HAVE seen, is me saying that I wouldn't hire a prostitute at all, in game (or out for that matter), because I find the whole idea of it, faded or otherwise, to be distasteful. AND, that I feel that roleplaying a prostitute and then fading -every time- is pointless and silly.
Quote from: Lizzie on June 27, 2010, 08:05:43 PM
No one is getting upset about others not wanting to emote out all the gory details of every sexual encounter and encouraging others to come up with excuses not to interact with them again over it, or not to pay them with coded coin, etc. Well except maybe you.
I haven't seen a single post in this entire thread, by anyone claiming they were even vaguely interested in insisting that anyone emote out all the gory details of every sexual encounter.
I haven't seen a single post by anyone "encouraging" anyone to come up with excuses not to interact with anyone ever again.
I haven't seen a single post by anyone encouraging people not to pay with coded coin.
What I HAVE seen, is some people saying it's pretty weird to intentionally play a very specific type of character, and yet refuse to ever actually roleplay out the primary function of that character's job.
What I HAVE seen, is some people saying that -they- come up with excuses not to interact with them again - and suggesting that IF someone else agrees, then there are reasonable IC excuses you can come up with, if you choose not to interact with that person, so that you don't have to turn it into an OOC slug-match.
What I HAVE seen, is some people saying that -they- would not be willing to pay coded coins for faded sex.
What I HAVE seen, is me saying that I wouldn't hire a prostitute at all, in game (or out for that matter), because I find the whole idea of it, faded or otherwise, to be distasteful. AND, that I feel that roleplaying a prostitute and then fading -every time- is pointless and silly.
QuoteIf you fade, you deprive the customer of what they paid for.
QuoteIf I'm gonna spend some coded coins for sexy entertainment, then I want that to be coded sexy entertainment.
QuoteBut I would be pissed at a prostitute's player who insisted on an FTB.
QuoteIf you fade, you deprive the customer of what they paid for.
QuoteJust don't expect much business from people who -want- to play them out.
QuoteAnd yes, if you do fade, as a pc prostitute, my character's probably going to say 'Hey, they were mediocre. I'm gonna pay a different skank next time.
'
QuoteIf I'm gonna spend some coded coins for sexy entertainment, then I want that to be coded sexy entertainment.
QuoteIt's not that big of a deal to withold coin because the other person didn't emote about them moaning or some other bullshit.
QuoteOh, and if you happen to pay for a FTB sexual encounter, and this bothers you, don't get upset, have your char find an IC reason to not want that again, such as E.D., reminds you of your mother, smelled something funny, or you embarassed yourself. Or, you were generally just unsatisfied.
QuoteShould ANYONE (be they prostitutes, hunters, barbers, assassins, grebbers, magickers or persons of any other trade) expect to be paid every time for virtual services rendered when there are other PCs of the exact same trade out there spending the time and taking the risk to earn the same sid for the same job? No, it would be wrong of them to take advantage of Players like that.
Several of the above quotes can fit into one or more of the catagories mentioned. As others have said, there is more to playing a prostitute pc than emoting out the sex acts for people. Also, that because there was a FTB, it doesn't mean that the act didn't happen or that one should be allowed to "punish" the other player for choosing to FTB. Anyway, I don't want to pointlessly argue for the sake of arguing and with that, I bow out of this thread.
Quite frankly, I am a little disappointed by peoples' attitudes regarding fading to black. It is a tool to avoid uncomfortable situations, not a cop-out to avoid "doing work". If a prostitute decides to fate to black with any of my PCs, I will be perfectly okay with it, and will judge my character's level of satisfaction based on the events prior to and after the act.
The last thing I want to see is players feeling pressured into mudsexing for fear of judgment.
If you don't want to have to deal with the pressures of mudsex, although there should be none, don't play a role SPECIFICALLY made to involve sex. Seriously.
This thing hasn't gotten locked yet?
Quote from: MeTekillot on June 27, 2010, 11:06:53 PM
If you don't want to have to deal with the pressures of mudsex, although there should be none, don't play a role SPECIFICALLY made to involve sex. Seriously.
I can see peoples' reasons for wanting to do this (it makes a good cover, for one). Also, people seem to forget that a prostitute is not an emotionless blow-up doll, existing only for sex (your characters may see prostitutes in this light, but it is seldom actually true).
Again though, the issue here is players' OOC expectations, not role choice (see thread title).
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 27, 2010, 11:08:06 PM
This thing hasn't gotten locked yet?
Soon, I hope.
Lizzie, your post was pretty nice and enlightening, I have trouble following these things sometimes due to specific AHRGHRRHGHGRHGH
So everyone reading this, agree with me here:
I like roleplaying.
I like roleplaying with others who roleplay, and like it.
I do not hold it against a player when the player's politely requesting fading to black on a scene.
When a char pays another char for something, (be general), even the players expect it.
FTB'ing does not mean it didn't happen, in the game. (Virtually or Roleplayed)
If, the above is true, then it's probably true that it would be just pure 'T' awesome, if your char paid for sexual favors (this being the limits of the interactions we're currently discussing), they got them. I think I'd love to see someone play a prostitute who, liked roleplaying, and if they chose to FTB, would give something in the way of.....a story.
Aren't we all storytellers? /PBSmoment
Since a wise man once suggested I be the change I want to see in armageddon, I'm gonna be that prostitute. I'll FTB, and tell you how using feats of agility (char prequisite) I blew your mind....LITERALLY, or how I maid you dress up like a slave-girl with elf ears, and then stole away with your coin, (player agreement prerequisite), I was actually horrible, and I kind of threw up a little in your mouth, I'm really new at this, and started crying.....In fact, sometimes I won't even FTB, I'll just make you chase me down the streets of (censored), while I scream wildly, butt naked.
I can now imagine someone playing a prostitute, and never roleplaying out mudsex, and them just being........awesome at it.
I'm gonna stop reading this thread unless more people come up with other expectations.
Quote from: Aaron Goulet on June 27, 2010, 11:04:43 PM
The last thing I want to see is players feeling pressured into mudsexing for fear of judgment.
That is exactly the point several of us are trying to make, though. Why should a player who is generally uncomfortable with sexual roleplay pick a prostitute, of all possible roles, for their character concept? There are other social roles that involve many of the other roleplay aspects involving prostitures, but make the sex completely optional. There is a reason I never picked whore as a character concept for myself. I only had one PC who slipped into it briefly, out of need and because it was IC.
Edit to add: This is the main reason I am bothered by characters trying to pressure other PC's into whoring, and give extremely negative reactions if they don't want to. Maybe it is IC for you to bully others who don't want to be whores, but give the other player a break, please, if this is clearly not the kind of role they want to get into.
There's a big difference between a creative "fade emote" or a 3-5 emote gloss-over and writing soft porn for all you horny lads and lasses. I have this sneaking suspicion that those who object to playing out mudsex as a prostitute (or merely promiscuous) character are really objecting to the latter option. No one (okay, maybe some of you) wants to spend three hours emoting about fucking. As others have mentioned, spending your hours writing porno is not the main objective of playing a prostitute character. Or well... I would hope.
I think this thread has served it's purpose. It's just getting redundant, and... irritating.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 28, 2010, 05:50:26 PM
I think this thread has served it's purpose. It's just getting redundant, and... irritating.
[EDITED BY THISTLE]: don't look.
I've never actually known a [EDITED BY AMPERE BECAUSE THISTLE DOESN'T READ THE FINE PRINT] to say that.ADDITIONAL EDIT: Homophobic? I actually find it homophobic that you would find it homophobic...but I suppose, in turn, you may find it homophobic that I find it homophobic that you find it homophobic. A viscous cycle.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on June 28, 2010, 09:05:51 PM
Quote from: Ampere on June 28, 2010, 07:29:15 PM
A viscous cycle.
Now that was jes' uncalled for.
That's awesome. This is my fourth sixteen hour day of serious physical labour in a row...not an excuse, simply the reason...lizzie 2 is coming to ottawa for canada day this year, big show.
Viscous stays.
Lizzie 1 is not going to Ottowa. Nor is she a prostitute.
Well. Maybe for the initial time you could do it all mudsexed out. And then for later, you could just clip it to a faaaade.
Hee.
I'm a visual person, so I really enjoy if they like to fully play it out, plus it's like meeting a need of your fantasy or something thought you don't get much excitement from text, it is still pretty entertaining and worth how much your PC paid. Unless I'm really tired and I don't wanna make it really long, then I don't mind to fade. Just asking from an OOC permission is all good to go. :D
The fuck happened here?
I am shutting this thread down, for obvious reasons.
To reiterate, NO ONE is EVER obligated to roleplay out sex. It does not matter what sort of role they are playing, even a prostitute. If anyone ever tries to force something like that upon you (read help consent), get into contact with staff IMMEDIATELY to report this violation of the rules.
Thank you, come again.