I think it's a good change to the request tool.
However, can we have formatting in the Character Report request, like when you submit an Original Submission? I (and probably others) use bold, underlines, italics, coloring, sizing, etc to help organize ideas a bit better, and hopefully it'll help on staff's end too.
Please please please.
My char reports were already anemic at best.
And the only reason I ever sent any is because I could lump everything into 1 email.
I'm afraid this system will make such things nonexistent.
Oh well, I don't like doing them anyway.
Maybe a "Weekly Report" option, too?
I have a few concerns that, unless addressed, will make this system, from my standpoint at least, difficult if not impossible to use.
The formatting, as mentioned, is a small thing. The most important thing is the lack of an ability to back and forth in the submission system. Almost -every- time I send in a report, it involves the staff sending back group responses to the various sections of the report. Which will often result in me then sending back responses to their responses, be it answering questions they have, or clarifying a point, or what have you. From what experience I've had with the current system, this sort of thing will be impossible. If this is so, this would make it a -very- effective tool for weekly reports.
The second the lack of a user friendly archive system. Right now, I use Gmail, which is nice as it groups all e-mails of the same subject together. I can easily look back via subject and see all relevant information to that particular thread of discussion. If each response in this submission system is going to have its own entry, then looking up archive information will be a complete nightmare. Especially with the lack of a search capability, and the fact that all these submissions are going to be mixed into other submissions. And I know if it's going to make it that hard for us, then it's going to be even worse on the staff end.
I know that the staff both like and need our reports and such, to keep track of what we're doing. But as the submission system stands now, I know the utter lack of usability, from the player end at least, will cause cut down reports to as slim as possible, and not include things that I otherwise would in an e-mail report. Because the scale of having to keep track of it all through such a disorganized system isn't a nightmare even worth facing.
Perhaps this submission system could simply be pinged as a preferred method of submitting reports, while leaving the e-mail option open?
There is the ability to do back and forth in the existing request tool. A staffer can mail you on any questions with a link at the bottom of our tool. You get an e-mail with what the staffer replied with, plus a link back to the request tool so you can add more information. Once a request is completely done, it is closed, and you get a copy of that in your e-mail, too.
You can also log into your My Account page to see your previous requests without going to your e-mail, all organized by date, clan, character, type, etc.
I would suggest e-mailing Morgenes / CCing MUD if you notice bugs though.
Quote from: mansa on April 23, 2010, 03:46:26 PM
Maybe a "Weekly Report" option, too?
There is a Character Report option; did you mean something else?
Quote from: Nyr on April 23, 2010, 03:59:52 PM
There is the ability to do back and forth in the existing request tool. A staffer can mail you on any questions with a link at the bottom of our tool. You get an e-mail with what the staffer replied with, plus a link back to the request tool so you can add more information. Once a request is completely done, it is closed, and you get a copy of that in your e-mail, too.
You can also log into your My Account page to see your previous requests without going to your e-mail, all organized by date, clan, character, type, etc.
That's really an ugly and nearly impossible to use system, though. It makes responding to multiple questions in one "report" very difficult. And the very limited ability to scan through prior submissions, as I mentioned, is staggeringly poor. No search capability, no subject lines.
I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, here. But it's bad enough system that I'd probably steer away from leadership roles in the future just to keep from having to use this system, unless some severe modifications were made to give it the archive ease and back and forth ease as allowed by e-mail type reports.
I have managed to get the formatting from the submission tool into the request tool. You can how do whatever formatting you would like to all your requests. This is still a work in progress, and I imagine their will be bugs, please bear with us and report anything you find to morgenes (at) armageddon.org and I'll fix it ASAP. I know that for instance the staff's response is still going to be in plain text, and so it formats badly with the HTML. I'll have that fixed this evening.
Every step of the process is still sent through emails, from your original submission to the resolution. We have been doing work to make sure that all of the subject headers are the same so that mail systems (such as Google's) will handle threading the emails properly. Yes this is important to us as well, and was part of the mandate to go to such a system. You should be able to search your emails as you do today, the difference is any submissions and responses you make should be through the tool, not through email.
We can look at giving better search options to the archive tool, the one we have as staff has many more options that we can push over to you guys pretty easily. I will be reviewing this thread for suggestions and implementing them ASAP.
Netflix, you should be able to check "E-mail me a copy of this request" before you submit a report to get all the reports you send into your e-mail easily. And the news about formatting is great, thanks.
Morgenes, is there any way to add 'read receipt' functionality? Some staff have a habit of not sending 'got your request, it'll take a while' responses; it'd be nice to know if something's been received and read.
A small step in making the system more usable is to make it closer to a standard trouble ticket system, where you submit the initial item via the request tool, a staff member can then respond to it, said response showing up both in the request tool and via e-mail. But then have the option of -responding- to that e-mail, instead of having to scrounge your way through the request tool.
If there's room for a Subject in the request tool, the e-mails can be subject based. The e-mails are set up so that the reply-to isn't to the staff, but to the request tool itself, which will them absorb the response and incorporate it into the ongoing trouble ticket.
Another downside is having these tickets closable. Quite often when a topic discussed via e-mail seems like it's found closure, something else comes up. If the trouble ticket gets closed, that means an entire new offshoot thread will need to be created. Perhaps include the ability for the end user to reopen a trouble ticket.
Quote from: Cutthroat on April 23, 2010, 04:54:19 PM
Netflix, you should be able to check "E-mail me a copy of this request" before you submit a report to get all the reports you send into your e-mail easily.
And I'm aware of that, but that doesn't address the concerns I've raised. And even if it did, since it's an opt-in selection, if you forget to click it, no e-mail. And no way to ever get an e-mail from it.
Quote from: jstorrie on April 23, 2010, 04:57:22 PM
Morgenes, is there any way to add 'read receipt' functionality? Some staff have a habit of not sending 'got your request, it'll take a while' responses; it'd be nice to know if something's been received and read.
This also brings to mind cases where a report or such may include more then one clan.
Morg, I've several times CCed character reports to additional clans, or even been enrolled in several.
What's the right way to handle this now? Send in multiple reports, one to each clan? Or send a single update to the Most Primary Clan, and count on y'all to route stuff as needed?
For now route to the one that is 'most' your clan. I will figure out how we'll do other clans being notified of reports.
Quote from: Morgenes in Staff AnouncementsWe are also hoping this will help with recent issues we've had with receiving emails due to issues with Google's bulk email policy.
Since I don't want to open another thread, I'll just ask here: What's the deal with this? Was this the cause for e-mails getting bounced?
Quote from: jcarter on April 23, 2010, 06:56:16 PM
Quote from: Morgenes in Staff AnouncementsWe are also hoping this will help with recent issues we've had with receiving emails due to issues with Google's bulk email policy.
Since I don't want to open another thread, I'll just ask here: What's the deal with this? Was this the cause for e-mails getting bounced?
We don't know why Google occasionally bounces email. When we dig into the documentation that is provided from the link in the bounce message it basically says either tough it out or pay for premium service. As we don't have any funds for a premium email service, we're going to tough it out. To do this, we're looking to minimize the chance of your email bouncing and/or being missed by storing it in our request tool.
Since the request tool seems to be able to access your character data on some level, why isn't the distribution determined by the current clan flags and such that would determine affiliation of your living character?
Only downsides I can see are where you might belong to multiple clans with the same email address (I would think easily addressable) or if you want to send in your last report after you die (which if you did it before you created another character, as characters seemed to be ordered, I would think it could be made to pull from the most recent dead character?). Am I missing something?
Not everyone needs or wants to send a clan report to their -own- clan..plus it is possible for a single PC to be a member of more than one clan.
Having said that, I think it'd make sense for the list to default to the primary clan you're in, before having to click on the drop-down box. So if you're a Sun Runner who is secretly a member of the Guild, and you want to make a clan report, when you get that window to make the report and select the clan it would already have Sun Runners showing up on the drop-down box. If you need to change it to the Guild you'd have to click on it and scroll down to the G's.
it's great. I'm happy to see progress away from managing everything in email. It's gone on too long.
also, i'd just ignore netflix. he/she just cares more about his/her own precious seconds with an extra step than your precious hours spent administering a game for free.
that said, i think what netflix is trying to say, is that it's interesting a seemingly custom solution was built instead of a free open source one like bugzilla or something.
I've always been so lazy. This makes it easier.
Quote from: Morgenes on April 23, 2010, 04:47:28 PM
I have managed to get the formatting from the submission tool into the request tool. You can how do whatever formatting you would like to all your requests.
Thanks so much! My reports tend to be verbose, and so I like to do a table of contents, followed by bolded headings, with main points in underlines so that things don't get missed.
The only other suggestion I would have would be something similar to a 'save as draft' function. This would allow me to work on my report over the course of several days, so I'm not jamming my entire week's worth of crap into two hours at the end. However, for the time being I can just do this in a word document so it's not that big of a deal.
Why would you email one clan you are in, and not the other, as far as a character report? It makes sense if you are ordering items or such, but to me, makes no sense when emailing updates about your character, which it would seem all your clan immortals should have access to?
Also, I imagine there is a way for immortals to pull all the reports at once? When I change clan (like independents->clan) or when a new clan immortal comes on, I have begun to email them all the past reports so they know the history of my character (because I don't use the bio command and probably never will).
So, I was checking my email today, thought, Huh, I really should file a report on something...Oh wait, I'd have to log into the request tool...Meh, log off and take a nap instead.
Really? I used this today and it was really easy. I checked "E-mail me a copy of this request" and got it with all the formatting I had used.
Quote from: Cutthroat on April 24, 2010, 01:35:29 PM
Really? I used this today and it was really easy. I checked "E-mail me a copy of this request" and got it with all the formatting I had used.
This.
I probably wouldn't have sent one in if the formatting hadn't gone in. But with the formatting, I think it's a really nice addition.
Quote from: X-D on April 24, 2010, 01:29:28 PM
So, I was checking my email today, thought, Huh, I really should file a report on something...Oh wait, I'd have to log into the request tool...Meh, log off and take a nap instead.
really? an additional 30 seconds (at most) worth of a step is too much work for something that would take you at least 5 minutes to do anyway? I mean, i understand if your report is just "killed this dude today," but somehow I doubt that.
Also, unfortunately, the login errors out on chrome and opera. It's related to the validation script. If i submitted more frequent reports, it would push it over into the "too much of a pain in the ass" zone for me since i only use chrome these days. (ie, firefox, and safari work fine.)
I like it. I havn't been able to get it to go to single spacing yet, but otherwise, it is nice.
Quote from: Cutthroat on April 24, 2010, 01:35:29 PM
Really? I used this today and it was really easy. I checked "E-mail me a copy of this request" and got it with all the formatting I had used.
Quote from: Agent_137 on April 24, 2010, 02:49:01 PM
Also, unfortunately, the login errors out on chrome and opera. It's related to the validation script. If i submitted more frequent reports, it would push it over into the "too much of a pain in the ass" zone for me since i only use chrome these days. (ie, firefox, and safari work fine.)
I have fixed the Google Chrome issues with the validation script on the login page. However, in testing the rest of the request process it appears that the formatting I have doesn't like Chrome either. I'll see if I can fix this ASAP.
The only really critical piece of feedback I have on this is the lack of the ability to CC other clan staff on the status of a character.
For example - lets say your are a a member of House A and you have gotten into some skirmishes with Elven Tribe B. The polite thing to do is to CC the Tribal clan admin in your mail. This is especially important when filing a report on a independent character, because likely if you have anything worth reporting it is to do with another clan and it would be polite to inform them.
Other then that. *shrug* seems fine.
Quote from: jmordetsky on April 26, 2010, 01:20:08 PM
The only really critical piece of feedback I have on this is the lack of the ability to CC other clan staff on the status of a character.
For example - lets say your are a a member of House A and you have gotten into some skirmishes with Elven Tribe B. The polite thing to do is to CC the Tribal clan admin in your mail. This is especially important when filing a report on a independent character, because likely if you have anything worth reporting it is to do with another clan and it would be polite to inform them.
Other then that. *shrug* seems fine.
Maybe we can have a list of checkboxes rather than a drop-down list? And select clans as necessary?
Is there any chance we could get the formatting stuff now available added over to the respond part of the tool, for both imms and players?
Quote from: WWYD on April 26, 2010, 02:10:04 PM
Is there any chance we could get the formatting stuff now available added over to the respond part of the tool, for both imms and players?
Now that staff can respond with formatting when resolving, changing up the reply functionality is next.
Awesome. I've went from Super-Overreaction to loving this.
Quote from: Morgenes on April 26, 2010, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: WWYD on April 26, 2010, 02:10:04 PM
Is there any chance we could get the formatting stuff now available added over to the respond part of the tool, for both imms and players?
Now that staff can respond with formatting when resolving, changing up the reply functionality is next.
Actually - I was just about to post about not seeing how to reply....? Am I missing something? (That would be my next bit of feed back - not being to reply after reading the message).
Just submitted my first character report. Worked fine. It wasn't too overwhelming to spend the entire 2 seconds required to copy+paste.
Quote from: jmordetsky on April 26, 2010, 03:36:24 PM
Quote from: Morgenes on April 26, 2010, 02:13:07 PM
Quote from: WWYD on April 26, 2010, 02:10:04 PM
Is there any chance we could get the formatting stuff now available added over to the respond part of the tool, for both imms and players?
Now that staff can respond with formatting when resolving, changing up the reply functionality is next.
Actually - I was just about to post about not seeing how to reply....? Am I missing something? (That would be my next bit of feed back - not being to reply after reading the message).
If you've been asked a question, you will be given a link to provide a reply at the top of the message. It will come from a no-reply email address. If for some reason the link doesn't work to reply, if you view a request from your history you can see the replies there and respond to them from that page.
If you get a 'Request Resolved' message, then there's currently no way to respond. It has been suggested that there be a way to re-open a request that has been closed (either because something wasn't done right, or you feel like it wasn't addressed for whatever reason). We haven't gotten to adding this yet.
Quote from: Morgenes
In your Character Report you can ask any other IC/OOC or questions you need to as related to your character's life over the previous however long you go between reports.
Oh. Errrrr. Sorry about that.
>.>
<.<
I actually like this a lot better than just random all-purpose emails. It's also easier for me because I have to log into webmail to send things on my macbook for dumb reasons I can't figure out, and I like the organization categories better. Plus I don't have to worry if my email got sent or spam blocked. I feel more directed, I guess?
Morg...
Would the following be possible:
1) Can the "email a copy of the submission" option be opt-out instead of opt-in? It's easy to bypass it if you're in a hurry, and no way to get that e-mail once you hit submit, if the box isn't checked.
2) Having the sender of the e-mail copy and the reply to the request be the same? Right now it looks like the e-mail copy comes from mud@arm, and the reply to the request comes from the e-mail of whatever member of staff is replying. For those of us who use Gmail, this prevents the emails from "grouping" together.
Thanks.
I made the default be to get the email (the checkbox is default checked).
I've had gmail do funny things with responses, I'm still trying to figure out why it sometimes think they aren't the same thread when they both have the same subject line.
I dunno how new the ability to reply in the request tool is, but it's slick.
Quote from: Morgenes on April 30, 2010, 12:46:19 PM
I made the default be to get the email (the checkbox is default checked).
I've had gmail do funny things with responses, I'm still trying to figure out why it sometimes think they aren't the same thread when they both have the same subject line.
I figured out why responses from players weren't getting threaded with Gmail, but I've fixed it, the subject wasn't exactly the same (missing 'Request' before the request #).
Quote from: brytta.leofa on April 30, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
I dunno how new the ability to reply in the request tool is, but it's slick.
I added it a while back, glad you like it.
I have also updated the rich text editor. We're now using a much more fully featured (and cross-browser compatible) editor. Hope you enjoy it.
(I still am working on allowing the reply piece of the code to use the new editor.
I think Morgenes is a really cool guy. eh codes in all these awesome things and doesn't afraid of anything.
Can we edit these?
No, you can't edit these. You do have the option of cancelling the request and resubmitting it from tour list of requests. Note that will put you back at the end of the line to be processed. I would suggest getting it right the first time.
This certainly seems to have come a long ways from its initial implementation. Now, if only, it had...
Spell Check
Quote from: netflix on May 08, 2010, 05:00:06 PM
This certainly seems to have come a long ways from its initial implementation. Now, if only, it had...
Spell Check
There is actually a plugin for the editor we're using to allow that, but I figured I'd let everyone get the javascript cached before I sprung that extra code on them.
The box you type into for the request tool need to be bigger.
I hate scrolling, and narrowness.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on May 16, 2010, 07:33:33 PM
The box you type into for the request tool need to be bigger.
I hate scrolling, and narrowness.
Click on the lines on the bottom right, drag them and it will expand and stay that way.
Can admin please, please, PLEASE not close reports out at the first response.
I wish there was a way to respond to a closed request. So, one might click "respond" and then the request/report would be reopened, the player could type something, etc. That way, items that the player doesn't need to discuss further would stay closed and would be off the staff's radar but the player wouldn't have to start an all new request if they have a follow-up question.
Kill reports. Should these fall under "Character Report", "Question/Request" or should these still be emailed to appropriate clan staff for more immediate attention?
Leaving a note about deaths in your character notes should be fine.
If it was a really sticky situation, or you somehow managed to zorch 10 pcs in a day, then yes, I'd send in an email. ;)
Actually, kills are filed in char reports, and assuming they are clanned or you are, it is considered good manners to send a report for each one. And though I doubt staff would complain if you waited till the end of the day to send in a lump report in the event of multiple kills, I am sure they prefer them as soon as is ICly possible after the fact.
Cause if somebody is going to question them on the matter I doubt they are going to wait.
(Disclaimer)
I don't actually agree with sending in kill reports but I do understand the preference.
That being said, Morg, what are the odds of kills getting a request tool menu option? Seems to me that is something that would help out a bit on the admin side if flagged seperate from simple char reports.
Perhaps a "Notification of Player Status Change" option ... used to report when you kill someone, hire someone into a clan, or kick someone out of a clan. All these things, in my opinion, should be reported sooner rather than later.
Quote from: X-D on May 17, 2010, 04:16:18 PM
That being said, Morg, what are the odds of kills getting a request tool menu option? Seems to me that is something that would help out a bit on the admin side if flagged seperate from simple char reports.
I dunno, I certainly could add it, do you guys want it?
QuotePerhaps a "Notification of Player Status Change" option ... used to report when you kill someone, hire someone into a clan, or kick someone out of a clan. All these things, in my opinion, should be reported sooner rather than later.
Yes, or perhaps the above idea.
While I see the merit in having more options, kinda don't want -tooo- many options that it just becomes difficult to choose between one or the other.
If anything, a general FYI request option that requires a simple "Thanks for letting us know" from staff would be nice. This should cover kills, new hires, and other things. "Notification" would be a good name for it.
Quote from: Morgenes on April 30, 2010, 02:41:24 PM
Quote from: Morgenes on April 30, 2010, 12:46:19 PM
I made the default be to get the email (the checkbox is default checked).
I've had gmail do funny things with responses, I'm still trying to figure out why it sometimes think they aren't the same thread when they both have the same subject line.
I figured out why responses from players weren't getting threaded with Gmail, but I've fixed it, the subject wasn't exactly the same (missing 'Request' before the request #).
As of 5/17 this still isn't working for me. I can mail you headers if you'd like.
Go ahead
I get things like: "\'+String.fromCharCode(34)+\'" added to my text when I go next after typing, then previous to edit it. Also a \ before all my '
Quote from: MarshallDFX on May 28, 2010, 03:05:40 AM
I get things like: "\'+String.fromCharCode(34)+\'" added to my text when I go next after typing, then previous to edit it. Also a \ before all my '
hrmmm...ok, that's I think part of the code to protect us from sql injections, I'll have to look at how it works with previous. In the mean time, don't do that.
Any chance we could get a field to include a subject, ala email? I'd love being able to add headers to things.
(If this is already an option, I'm dense and missed it.)
Quote from: Fathi on May 30, 2010, 03:36:24 AM
Any chance we could get a field to include a subject, ala email? I'd love being able to add headers to things.
(If this is already an option, I'm dense and missed it.)
The category/subject is already a subject for the most part. We certainly could add a subject, but I'm not sold it's needed.
I've updated the request tool to allow you to specify other clans to include on all communications about the request. This is still a work in progress, so please email me if you see any issues with this.
A way to reply to even a closed ticket. And to have it keep the same headers when emailing copies.
Even better, having it set so that responding to the email ticket goes straight into the ticket system.
Please please please please please.
(and spell check? The fancy editor blanks out whenever I hit my google toolbar spellcheck button)
And why, when you try to paste something does it wipe out the entire line?
And really, can something be done about the closing of a request? I mean really, it is annoying to be forced to use the thing to begin with, but then having to do a new request in order to reply to an old one is driving me batty.