Hello there,
As some of you might know, the blind (no, not IG, I'm talking OOC! :D) do play muds. They get the screen reader (which is a program) read the screen for them, and the incoming text is automatically read out to them. There is a problem, though. Imagine reading this, as a computer:
a Random Room [new]
The word in brackets, is pronounced as "new", and hence you get to wonder, "Huh? What new?" :)
So I was wondering if it is easy for the coders to change it to read something like this:
a Random Room [n, e, w]
[n e w] would be fine, too, but that extra pause comma causes is wonderful for your mind to extinguish the things you hear quickly. Of course, if it looks bad or if players are used to it, fine. It is why I posted this thread so that people can come to a conclusion.
Thanks a bunch!
I'm sorry I ... actually had no idea the blind played MUDs, I'm pretty surprised.
I've come across maybe close to ten in my years mudding. They are out there.
But I hope it is done for your benefit and welcome to Armageddon!
I've always thought the directions should be spaced, personally.
Quote from: musashi on February 18, 2010, 06:52:42 AM
I'm sorry I ... actually had no idea the blind played MUDs, I'm pretty surprised.
I didn't think so either, until I discovered that some MUDs have like full blind-person support. Thinking on it though, it's more than possible, not like they'd be playing modern graphical games.
I think this is a good idea, either to change permanently, or as a toggle for people who prefer the old way.
Welcome to Armageddon, by the way.
I think a toggle would be nice. Not only with those directional commands, but other commands that may be more friendly for the blind to use. Not sure what else the mud would need for that though...
Yes, I think anything that can be done to make the game more accessible would be great.
Though I do agree that a toggle would be ideal.
Brandon
I would be very interested in what else could be done to help people play the game. In Arm2 there is already a space between the letters as you suggest, but for other reasons.
Quote from: Morgenes on February 18, 2010, 10:07:16 AM
I would be very interested in what else could be done to help people play the game. In Arm2 there is already a space between the letters as you suggest, but for other reasons.
Perhaps toggle location descriptions when moving from room to room? Probably makes the TTS program spam like mad.
Quote from: Reiteration on February 18, 2010, 10:55:26 AM
Quote from: Morgenes on February 18, 2010, 10:07:16 AM
I would be very interested in what else could be done to help people play the game. In Arm2 there is already a space between the letters as you suggest, but for other reasons.
Perhaps toggle location descriptions when moving from room to room? Probably makes the TTS program spam like mad.
That is already possible, 'brief room' will toggle room descriptions on/off. There are other options available to help, like 'brief combat' and 'brief ooc', see 'help brief' for more info.
I'd include a 'brief blind' option, or something similar, that reformatted all text to be friendly to readers (as well as seriously cut down on the text to be read - imagine hearing 'the tall, muscular man' fifteen times in a minute).
Hello,
I am pleasantly surprised to see such an enthusiasm in response to my request. To clarify a few points for the curious, when we press the control key, the TTS, or the screen reader shuts up. For the technically-interested, the TTS buffer is cleared.
As for the brief thing, yes, because of my six-year mudding experience, I have come to realize that quite pleasantly, all the DIKU muds have that (because it's in the codebase), although with the addition of 'brief combat' it has just gotten more perfect.
The prompt, also, is something that spams the blind. What I did, though, was to type 'prompt >' and then gag that line. So now, I receive nothing! It would be good if the prompt could be turned off, but if it takes too much time, well then, let it go. It is like it's off for me, anyway. (I'll describe to any future blind players how to do it if needed.)
And yes, a toggle about the exits thing I think would be perfect. I do not think it is mainly a blinds-only issue; I've read a few interested comments on this thread. So, maybe something in the options or the brief (although it has nothing to do with briefing, but anyway) that does that, regardless of whether the person is blind or not.
Out of curiousity, with no prompt, how do you know the health and stun? Assess me?
Assessing doesn't show you stun. I just set a prompt like this -only- when I'm fighting:
prompt %h, %t
Then, I will hear something like:
88, 94
Of course, there are advanced things I can do (but don't feel up to them right now) like creating a trigger that'd put my health and stun points in a variable, and I could get it spoken by my screen reader by typing, say, 'hp'. The client I am using is designed for the blind, in case you are curious. It is called VipMud.
Oh, and thanks a bunch for the welcomes! ;)
Seems totally reasonable. I'm all for universal design (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_design).
Thank you! I'm really glad to hear that!
Quote from: Oleupata on February 18, 2010, 11:11:29 AM
I'd include a 'brief blind' option, or something similar, that reformatted all text to be friendly to readers (as well as seriously cut down on the text to be read - imagine hearing 'the tall, muscular man' fifteen times in a minute).
This seems like it would be the best solution. It's unobtrusive and wouldn't effect other players at all.
Quote from: parham on February 18, 2010, 11:30:47 AM
Oh, and thanks a bunch for the welcomes! ;)
You'll find most of the playerbase pretty accommodating and willing to work with you, as a player, both inside and out of the game. This is usually doubly true for people that have more dickish characters.
Just out of curiousity, if you don't mind me asking, what are other parts of the game do you find you have the most trouble with?
Quote from: musashi on February 18, 2010, 06:52:42 AM
I'm sorry I ... actually had no idea the blind played MUDs, I'm pretty surprised.
I am also surprised. I really wouldn't want to have a player killing career! But this is an R.P.I., so there is lots of other stuff to do.
HAHA, so you do more then hear the *beep*.
You actually hear "*beep* Welcome to Armageddon."
That has to make it sting just a notch more.
Quote from: jcarter on February 18, 2010, 04:29:08 PM
Just out of curiousity, if you don't mind me asking, what are other parts of the game do you find you have the most trouble with?
I have gotten to a part that needs revising yet. It is probably very blind-friendly; so far there has been no ASCII artwork and such, or no color-dependent activities.
As far as I know, the only ASCII art is in the help files concerning maps, and the opening 'mantis head' logo itself. I don't think there's ASCII art on any scroll or book objects, though I could be wrong.
The various statistic levels for stamina, healthy, et cetera, seem like a pain. Improving these seems like an excellent way to attract new players! I imagine Armageddon's player base would expand quite healthily if it was known as particularly blind-friendly.
Yes. It would, very much. I do not quite get what you mean by statistical levels that seem like a pain... give me an example?
The constant updates of your HP/MP etc., I mean.
Quote from: flurry on February 18, 2010, 01:13:59 PM
Seems totally reasonable. I'm all for universal design (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_design).
Can we get a toggle-able BEEP echo for deaf players when things die? So they aren't trying to kill things they've already killed, and possibly attack the gortok-inked dwarf?
Edit: Typo
Quote from: jstorrie on February 21, 2010, 05:20:38 AM
The constant updates of your HP/MP etc., I mean.
Oh, yes. As I said, a better option would be to have something like a display command that would work like this, and then it could be aliased:
>display hp
88
>display maxhp
88
>display stamina
40
>display maxstamina
74
and so forth. however, I do not know how easy creating that in DIKU is. In all the codebases I've worked with, however, it was just an echo-like statement that echoed the HP/stamina/etc variable to the player typing the command.
I know for us, we can have the prompt show a bunch of additional information, like our position (standing, sitting), opponent, accent, and so on. If we could make it so all these can be done similar to the single prompts for hp, that might also help.
Yes, it would be wonderful. For the sake of not doing any extra work, it could even be like this, I assume:
>display %h
88
>display %H
88
and so on. :)
Does the infobar work?
No, not really. For one thing, I think my client cannot really display it the way it is supposed to be displayed, because I randomly get it here and there, and it is not like the prompt.
I had a three-against-one spar today, and the prompt I have created didn't hinder me at all. Maybe if the dex of those fighting was too high, I would have a problem, but currently I'm fine.
Next reboot exits will default to have a comma and space between them, like: [N, E, S, W, U, D]. If you don't like this, type 'brief exits', it will return to the way it was before.
That's awesome, Morgenes.
Quote from: Kassindra on February 22, 2010, 04:17:01 PM
That's awesome, Morgenes.
Indeed. Thank you a lot. You're the man, as they say! :)