I can't go into details for IC reasons, but my unhappy impression is that since their heyday with Halaster's changes, they've been getting systematically nerfed in at least the offense department.
True or no, please, from people who've played them recently? (No details, just general opinions).
All I know is that most elementalists can still wreak havok when properly trained. I've both seen it and done it. I wish we could discuss specifics--I'm curious what you've seen that worries you.
Quote from: NoteworthyFellow on June 06, 2009, 08:13:06 AM
All I know is that most elementalists can still wreak havok when properly trained. I've both seen it and done it.
Definitely.
Any character can be deadly when played properly, and you don't always need code for that.
Depends on the elementalist. I've personally killed a few with little problem when I was the one initiating it. (I jumped them) but when they are magicked up, looking for trouble, sometimes it only takes one spell to be your doom.
Unfortunately, yes. Elementalists are very deadly.
Quote from: Cerelum on June 06, 2009, 09:30:00 AM
Depends on the elementalist. I've personally killed a few with little problem when I was the one initiating it. (I jumped them) but when they are magicked up, looking for trouble, sometimes it only takes one spell to be your doom.
I don't see why this was necessary.
Quote from: Is Friday on June 06, 2009, 09:48:14 AM
Quote from: Cerelum on June 06, 2009, 09:30:00 AM
Depends on the elementalist. I've personally killed a few with little problem when I was the one initiating it. (I jumped them) but when they are magicked up, looking for trouble, sometimes it only takes one spell to be your doom.
I don't see why this was necessary.
He asked about offense, offense is used to kill people and things in game. So I spoke about killing those which he asked about. It's simple common sense.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on June 06, 2009, 04:58:05 AM
True or no, please, from people who've played them recently? (No details, just general opinions).
Quote from: Is Friday on June 06, 2009, 10:00:35 AM
Quote from: Salt Merchant on June 06, 2009, 04:58:05 AM
True or no, please, from people who've played them recently? (No details, just general opinions).
If you think me saying "Magicked up" or "I killed a few" is too much detail, you need to learn to pick your battles better...
It is true that numerous spells and effects have changed over the past year or so, which result in practically every non-mundane class being weaker. From what I can gather this wasn't done to nerf the classes, but to make the spells and effects act more realistically.
Magickers and non-magickers alike are still capable of becoming very strong and can very easily kill almost anyone if they are adequately prepared.
A max mage handled by a smart player is nigh unstoppable. That's a fact.
Strange derailing question, but do you think a magicker player who simply inputs everything he does stands on par with a 'gicker who uses aliases, triggers, and hotkeys?
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 06, 2009, 02:56:31 PM
Strange derailing question, but do you think a magicker player who simply inputs everything he does stands on par with a 'gicker who uses aliases, triggers, and hotkeys?
I'm a player that did most spells the "manual" way, typing them in word by word. People with hotkeys and such seemed marginally faster, but -they- didn't have the risk I did of forgetting a spell or typing it incorrectly. Still, for my very important "oh shit" spells, I would use one of the ten aliases available in game.
I'd say for the most part, there's not some big advantage for people who uses aliases and the like.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 06, 2009, 02:56:31 PM
Strange derailing question, but do you think a magicker player who simply inputs everything he does stands on par with a 'gicker who uses aliases, triggers, and hotkeys?
Absolutely not. I think triggers and aliases for combat or magick are wrong, totally wrong.
Now, if you are going out to forage salt for a day, I don't see anything wrong with automating that a bit, if you add emotes every now and again, but when you attack a magicker and suddenly he blasts off three spells, all with emotes pertaining to their casting a split second before them and just demolishes you, I get pissed.
We have aliases in game for a reason. For those spells you expect to cast in combat, and in those 'Oh, shit!' moments, you have to use aliases. Other times I type things out occasionally. I typo elements, spheres and moods all the time when doing that, though, so maybe others can type all that crap out in combat, but I can't. Every magicker of mine would die young if I didn't use aliases.
As far as whether magickers are still effective in combat still? Do they still have the chance to wipe someone else out, even a HG in one or two spells? Indeed, they do. That's all I will say on that topic besides that, yes, there've been some changes, but they didn't make magickers less scary, imho, just made the players have to work a bit harder and play a bit smarter and think about the world/character more.
Quote from: Eloran on June 06, 2009, 11:05:05 AM
A max mage handled by a smart player is nigh unstoppable. That's a fact.
I wouldn't even go so far as to say they haved to be maxed out.
A
prepared mage with a handful of spells can wreck house.
I played a viv as my first magicker and realized that just because they heal and make water (don't piss yourselves about ic info, that's in the helpfile you nazis) they can also become horrors in battle. So yes magickers are extremely dangerous, of every flavor and type.
In response to the derail by RogueGunslinger:
- Triggers and hotkeys are a good way to get yourself into some accidental trouble. There would be nothing worse than to pop off the wrong spell at the wrong time because a trigger went off at a time not intended. Besides, typing spells in the long way helps you remember the incantaions. The more proficient you are, the less you need the help of an alias or otherwise
- Personally, I always had magicks to help me escape combat on alias because when you need to GTFO, you really need to do it in a hurry. I also had a few commands abbreviated to help with the casting or manipulation of some spells, but I never ever ever included target names or keywords.
- The more you learn about the magick lore of the game the easier it is to roleplay out and learn new spells once your character earns them. If you never learn the spheres and moods, this could be an issue and alias/triggers/whatever do little to help the player learn these things
Another thing to consider is that being a badass with magick doesn't require you to roast and toast everyone and everything with face-melting spells. With a well-trained mage one can solo raptors, braxat, and even mantis in combat without magick weapons or casting spells directly at their targets.
When playing a mage I always prefered the route of least resistance. Why waste every last drop of mana hurling fireballs or whatever? Sure, it works, but a smart mage who is prepared will take you out neatly and cleanly before you have the chance to run away.
Always be prepared
On topic, in my experience: yes.
Quote from: RogueGunslinger on June 06, 2009, 02:56:31 PM
Strange derailing question, but do you think a magicker player who simply inputs everything he does stands on par with a 'gicker who uses aliases, triggers, and hotkeys?
Personally, I don't see much of a problem with aliases, when it comes to magickers. I've only played one, but aliases almost seemed like a necessity.
Triggers, on the other hand, are entirely different, if they're used to get your character to react a certain way unfailingly (as opposed to triggers used to highlight text, for example). I know some other players disagree, but I don't have much respect for the use of triggers that way. Just as an example, I can remember interviewing a character who very obviously had a trigger set up to scan regularly (-very- regularly), with complete disregard to whatever might have been happening or what situation the character was in. I found it so ridiculous, it was all I could do to not just stop the interview and tell him to go away. I persevered, though, but it definitely didn't make a good ooc impression on me.
Oh, I missed the 'triggers' reference. BAD IDEA. There are so many times that something might happen in the wrong place and suddenly you blow your cover and get arrested in Tuluk or something equally retarded. Don't trigger spells. Hotkeys, also, ain't a good idea. It is way too easy to make a mistake. At least with the alias you can do things in ways that it takes more than a single keystroke error to get you completely boned.
Aliases? Use them. The rest? No. Never.
Aliases: Great idea. Especially if you have a command stacker client side so that each of your spells with each character can have it's own emote to give it a descriptive 'look', like motionswise.
triggers: Triggers are a -bad- idea. They just are. The only thing triggers are really good for is maybe bringing up the weather periodically or adding color clientside so you can run when you s<X beastie> in the distance.
Heh, I watched someone go LD in a bar once, go through about five minutes of crafting emotes, create an item, and THEN came back on line.
After that incident, I saw evidence of her using triggers and scripts for so many things that I refused to interact with that character for as long as she lived.
Quote from: FantasyWriter on June 06, 2009, 10:24:58 PM
Heh, I watched someone go LD in a bar once, go through about five minutes of crafting emotes, create an item, and THEN came back on line.
After that incident, I saw evidence of her using triggers and scripts for so many things that I refused to interact with that character for as long as she lived.
Just nitpickin but if they go link dead, they can't do any of that as triggers rely on game messaging and so do aliases.
So you're saying the person went idle, like still connected but taking a piss or something.
Quote from: AmandaGreathouse on June 06, 2009, 07:52:58 PM
triggers: Triggers are a -bad- idea. They just are. The only thing triggers are really good for is maybe bringing up the weather periodically or adding color clientside so you can run when you s<X beastie> in the distance.
Triggers are a great idea...as long as they do not output to Arm!
But a trigger that plays a sound for specific words? It can be a lifesaver in combat spam.
Long ago, I had my computer set to make a little "click" sound whenever "you" or "your" showed up.
Very hand in battles. Also when the Gaj has 20 people in it...
True. I like to make 'you' 'your' and 'yours' all red clientside so that they pop, not only in crowded rooms, but also in combat.
triggers in some clients = highlights or sound effects. These things are critical for all combat classes. However, yea, triggers that output back to the mud are very poor play.
I think triggers are generally cheating. I don't have a problem with people aliasing things if they want. Personally when playing a magicker I type out my spells with the exception of some sort of "escape" or "protective" spell that I might alias with certain magickers. A "holy shit" spell I suppose you could say.
I only alias / macro 'oh shit' spells. Or, when I can see problems about to arise, I throw in a few at the last minute. Like say I'm in the desert and up comes the x dwarf, and you can tell by the way he's looking at you and talking that he wants to fight. Yeah, I'll get ready and throw up a few "cast 'mon un pwnz0r bend over' dwarf" macros, rather than try to type all that out on the fly, with combat lag. Personally, I equate it to my character becoming mentally prepared. Practicing the words in his head. Getting harmonized with his element, in this case pwnz0r. :P