A lot of people seem to have a certain amount of misinformation about what footpads are.
Footpads are basically the shoes that ninja's wore. Basically a light slipper with a little bit of cushioning on the bottom.
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=ninja+shoes&btnG=Search+Images
They're useful on night-time burglaries, when you're breaking into the upper story of a house (that you expect to be deserted) and you don't want people on lower stories to hear you as you look in desk drawers and under mattress for the family valuables. They offer a limited ability to run quietly, although if you full out sprint in them people can still hear you.
They're of almost no practical use to a pick-pocket -- pick-pockets don't do much sneaking around, they want you to see them as they bump into you, and hastily apologize. You're supposed to notice them but not notice that they just pinched your wallet.
Most civilians wouldn't properly recognize footpads. To most people, footpads just look like funny shoes. Some policemen wouldn't recognize them, either. A well-trained policeman would instantly recognize them and they would make him highly suspicious. An experienced criminal would probably recognize them as well, and so would just about any fence.
If someone walked into a bar wearing footpads, the most obvious question would be
"Why are you wearing those funny shoes?"
or, if you happen to be in the know:
"What burglary are you on your way to?"
Footpads are not something that someone would casually wear. Given that they are essentially slippers, they are not resistant to wear and tear and so therefore are not appropriate walking gear. I'm willing to hazard a guess that they've never been en vogue in any earth culture at any point in time. They're thin by design so they're not likely to keep your feet warm, and are therefore not comfortable in many climates.
If you were a burglar planning on using them, you'd probably keep them in your backpack with your binoculars, stethoscope, pepper spray and lockpicks until you got to the second story of the house you were doing. You'd need something with better traction to get to the second story. Footpads additionally might not fit into the links on a chain link fence, arguably important if you're doing some kind of a fenced compound. Trying to make it over barbed wire in a pair of slippers is arguably unwise, and trying to make it over razor-wire in slippers is probably stupid.
In addition to the problem of drawing unwanted attention, possession of footpads would likely qualify as possession of burglary tools. In the jurisdiction that I live in, I think that possession of burglary tools is a Class IV felony punishable by a jail sentence of no more than ten years and a fine of a few thousand dollars. You wouldn't get the book thrown at you for your first offense, but if you're got a couple of priors then it means that you might be locked up for a decade without eligibility for parole the first couple of years for wearing a pair of funky padded shoes. Criminal intent can be considered prima fascea with possession in my state, too. Certainly, footpads are nothing you'd want to slip on to run down to the local taco stand to grab dinner and a beer.
Amateur-quality footpads would be easy to make but professional quality footpads would be tough to come by. I've never heard of a factory that makes them, except as costume novelty. Costume footpads would probably work fine, although if you wanted really good ones you'd probably have to sew your own. Suffice it so say that footpads are not what your local crackhead would wear if he were doing a "smash and grab" on a poorly protected pawnshop to get him a couple of watches. More likely, footpads are what James Bond would wear if he needed to get some secret plans out of a fortified compound.
I checked wikipedia but their entry is not accurate. To add to the confusion, footpad has an unrelated meaning of a petty criminal, without regard to the implement worn to commit burglaries. I'll try to find a better source of information for you guys.
Excellent post, and I always thought it odd when someone wanders on down the street in a pair of footpads. It's sort of in the same ballpark, to me, as waltzing around in a filthy hooded cloak with a bent piece of bone in your hand. Characters are gonna make assumptions.
Instead of assuming what footpads are, try reading their description.
Nothing about the description screams "ninja boots" unless you desire to take that impression away when you go into the examination.
Edited to add: furthermore, this is a perennial issue that people never seem to get over.
Agreed. Footpads are delicate, soft footwear used to suppress the sound of footsteps.
Was there any ever doubt?
I always thought they were just cheap sandals.
The problem is the stuff that gives you sneaky bonuses for the Labyrinth type sneaking also helps you in the main city.
When you're in the city, common clothing should give you hide bonuses. When you're in the Labyrinth, dark clothing and footpads should give you bonuses, although the ability to make silently is always good for sneaking up on people, whether you're trying to blend in or not.
The only way to solve this is to split city hide into two different skills: one for the Labyrinth, and one for the city. That way certain items can give bonuses to a different sort of hide.
And pickpockets in this game need to be able to hide and sneak if they're going to survive. Footpads are a major advantage because of this:
QuoteStaying hidden while moving requires strong stealth abilities.
They are not illigal, and while some people might be suspicious about it, some people might not care at all.
Kind of like wearing a black hoodie, the actual reaction you get depends on other things, like if you're hanging out in front of a liquor store at 3:00 AM.
This post can be considered authoritative.
I don't know about footpads being useless to a thief but my personal opinion is that if you are wearing these casually in public I'm gonna quirk a brow most likely. Especially if you're an elf.
Quote from: Kalden on February 11, 2008, 01:10:15 AM
The problem is the stuff that gives you sneaky bonuses for the Labyrinth type sneaking also helps you in the main city.
When you're in the city, common clothing should give you hide bonuses. When you're in the Labyrinth, dark clothing and footpads should give you bonuses, although the ability to make silently is always good for sneaking up on people, whether you're trying to blend in or not.
The only way to solve this is to split city hide into two different skills: one for the Labyrinth, and one for the city. That way certain items can give bonuses to a different sort of hide.
And pickpockets in this game need to be able to hide and sneak if they're going to survive. Footpads are a major advantage because of this:
QuoteStaying hidden while moving requires strong stealth abilities.
I seriously doubt the Staff is going to separate hide between the Labyrinth, and everyothercityintheknownworld. The real problem is that people are wearing all of their burglar gear out in the open public.
I'd imagine there will always be people that wear their work clothes all the time. Some warriors never, ever take off their armor, and some thieves never, ever take off their ninja suit. The only difference is that being known as a thief is a problem, and not taking off your armor is just uncomfortable. I don't think that's ever going to change, or even a problem, some people just don't care about the social repercussions of being known as a thief.
I'm perfectly comfortable with the current situation. Thieves that are willing to telegraph it will be known as thieves, and thieves that do care will disguise them self. And what better way to keep your pickpocketing secret than being the guy wearing boots and brightly dyed sandcloth in a bar with two elves wearing footpads and dark cloaks?
I would however suggest however that cheap, slummy player housing would assist sneaky types in actually being able to change out of their work clothes.
I wonder.... Is it really so terribly crippling to a pickpocket's career that he get caught trying to rob an NPC and gets dragged off by an NPC guard?
Seriously, just shave your head, grow a beard, and go on to the next town.
Oddly enough, I've seen a few city based NPCs wearing footpads. They didnt look like criminal types, just poor commoners.
Quote from: Folker on February 11, 2008, 11:19:43 AM
Oddly enough, I've seen a few city based NPCs wearing footpads. They didnt look like criminal types, just poor commoners.
That's the thing.... They didn't
-look- like criminal types.... ;)
Were wearing footpads nonetheless.
The best criminal-type is the one that doesn't look like one. :D
Quote from: Folker on February 11, 2008, 11:23:05 AM
Were wearing footpads nonetheless.
Were probably digging through your pack when you weren't looking too. ;D
Quote from: Shiroi Tsuki on February 11, 2008, 11:24:44 AM
The best criminal-type is the one that doesn't look like one. :D
QFT
Or ... maybe those NPCs were just regular people who were wearing footpads because they've had them, and not some silk clad boots. Think about it, a footpad is a slipper. Treated leather or fur with leather laces wrapping around the foot. Sounds just the kind of thing a dirt poor commoner would wear. Not because it softens the footsteps or anything, but because it's simple, it's cheap, and it's easy to repair.
Quote from: Folker on February 11, 2008, 11:30:06 AM
Or ... maybe those NPCs were just regular people who were wearing footpads because they've had them, and not some silk clad boots.
Maybe.... The world may never know.
Quote from: Folker on February 11, 2008, 11:30:06 AM
Or ... maybe those NPCs were just regular people who were wearing footpads because they've had them, and not some silk clad boots. Think about it, a footpad is a slipper. Treated leather or fur with leather laces wrapping around the foot. Sounds just the kind of thing a dirt poor commoner would wear. Not because it softens the footsteps or anything, but because it's simple, it's cheap, and it's easy to repair.
QFT
Cheap? Heh. Find out IC.
To me, the explanation is thus:
1) footpads are not slippers. They are foot-gear with a very specific function - to allow the wearer to move with less noise than boots, or high-heel shoes, or that whispy swushing sound of silken *slippers.*
2) if they were intended to be slippers, they would have been called slippers. They are called footpads to distinguish them from slippers, which may or may not also be soft, comfy, and unclunky, but do not exist for the express purpose of helping in the support of a shady lifestyle.
3) just as in all other things Zalanthan, footpads come in varying styles, with varying prices, with varying availability to the public. I think I can safely say without divulging any IC info, that "cheap" is definitely not an adjective one would apply to these things, in general.
4) If I see someone wearing footpads, and my character has lived in or spent a whole lot of time in a city, I will assume my characters know damned well what they are and what they're for. If my character has not lived in a city, or spent a lot of time in one, then my character will be blissfully ignorant and consider them no differently than he would consider a pair of green luminescent spike-heel steel-toed shoes: as just another one of those really stupid things that really stupid city people wear :)
Quote from: Shiroi Tsuki on February 11, 2008, 11:24:44 AM
The best criminal-type is the one that doesn't look like one. :D
By that line of thought, whoever starts acting suspicious after seeing someone with footpads is actually being stupid.
It is the guy in the armored boots you should be worried about.
Actually, go for hunters and aides. Half of those folks are either assassin or burglar anyway.
Quote from: Lizzie on February 13, 2008, 10:09:33 AM
Cheap? Heh. Find out IC.
There are footpads and there are footpads. Once again, there are non criminal NPCs out there, living in a non slump area of the cities, which wear footpads and are no different then any other commoner NPCs. Admittedly, it's a bit ... hard to judge in terms of cost inside the game itself. There are people out there who seem dirt poor, and end up having equipment that costs more then many others who by their description should be of better economic status. But the sheer ... simplicity of what a footpad is (One cooked up by an average joe schmoe, not some master cobbler with specifically selected leather pieces
I don't think that -every- pc someone makes should recognize "footpads" and -know- what their purpose is, I make my pcs different...some may recognize them and know their purpose, some may not. It's really more realistic that way than having -every- pc you create recognize them, know their purpose, and become suspicious of -every- person they see with them. That's just silly and smacks of a bit of powergaming if you ask me. ::) As someone else pointed out, just because you see someone wearing a padded, simple shoe it doesn't mean for certain that they are using them to be shady, realistically it could be simply because they can't afford shoes with more solid soles, etc.
Personally, I think the word "footpad" shouldn't be in the description of most of these types of shoes to reflect the fact that not -everyone- would recognize them for what they can be used for. Instead of "A shabby pair of footpads" it should be "a shabby pair of soft-soled shoes", something like that.
Ironically, many footpads look just fine when they're dropped on the ground. Pieces of leather, wont ever suspect anything malicious from them. If only they looked similar when worn.
I like I said, I never knew footpads were explicitly meant for sneaking until you guys pointed it out here on the forum.
Meh, if they were supposed to be slippers, they would be called slippers. If my character is a street wise city character, he will pretty much assume that anyone wearing footpads is at least somewhat sketchy and deserves a watching. People in crummy 'rinth cloaks also deserve watching. This isn't mean you go running to the militia screaming that "OMG a thief is after me!", but there is not a thing in the world wrong with watching someone who looks, if not like a thief, then at least someone of ill repute. For better or for worse, people associate footpads with criminals. Don't like it? Don't wear footpads.
I mean hell, try walking around with a hooded sweatshirt with your hood up in a store. You will be watched. Does a hood make a criminal? No. Are most people with their hoods up criminals? No. Are you going to be watched by store security anyways? You betch-ya.
Footpads are ninja shoes.
They are also for ninjas.
Conversely: wearing ninja shoes is a very good way to let savvy people know that you provide ninja services.
Quote from: touringCompl3t3 on February 10, 2008, 09:40:04 PM
Footpads are not something that someone would casually wear. Given that they are essentially slippers, they are not resistant to wear and tear and so therefore are not appropriate walking gear.
I think this is a better reason to keep your footpads out of sight than the possibility of "OMG he's a criminal!" responses.
You can get footpads that are basically a pair of crappy padded shoes out of rags that will work for helping you walk quietly, but if you wear them all the time they are going to get raggedy, and filth, sand and stones are going to become embedded in them, making them
less effective when you really
need them for sneaking. A smart burglar is going to keep his 'pads in the best repair he can manage, because you don't want a stone lodged in the sole scraping on the floor and giving you away, or a loose bit of raggedy cloth catching and tearing at an inopportune moment.
You can get better quality leather footpads that seem to be professionally made, but these are expensive. Finely tailored leather footpads are less likely to pick up noisy debris than cheap ones, but since they are so expensive you'd be a fool to risk damaging them on the public streets. Fine tools are an investment. You don't wear your "good" footpads into the Gaj, and you don't let your half-giant sidekick use your best pick on his teeth. If you can afford a good pair of footpads, you can certainly afford a pair of boots to wear around town.
Then again, I think people mostly wear these things around town because they haven't thought about it, or they have simply forgotten what they are wearing. Who hasn't found themselves wielding weapons or sparring weapons all day long for no good reason? ;D Or wearing ridiculous gloves or full helmets to the tavern, when they would obviously make eating and drinking awkward, or at least uncomfortable. Getting drunk while wearing your anakore claw gloves is just asking for trouble. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
That gave me an idea, AC.
Wouldn't it be cool if foodpads came into a greater state of disrepair the more one used them? Like armor, but instead of from being hit so much, footpads would become more worn the more one walked in them? Footpads would go through the states like 'new', 'used', etcetera just as armor did. Walking, running and sneaking could also have effects.
In fact, that would be neat to have for all footwear.
Edit: And the states of disrepair would happen depending how well the boots were made and how far they've been walked/ran/snuck in. It would happen very gradually as well, I wouldn't want to get one's boots fixed up every few weeks.
Footwear degrading over time.. why has this idea never came up until now. That's fucking awesome.
Quote from: Rhyden on February 13, 2008, 09:29:29 PM
That gave me an idea, AC.
Wouldn't it be cool if foodpads came into a greater state of disrepair the more one used them? Like armor, but instead of from being hit so much, footpads would become more worn the more one walked in them? Footpads would go through the states like 'new', 'used', etcetera just as armor did. Walking, running and sneaking could also have effects.
In fact, that would be neat to have for all footwear.
Edit: And the states of disrepair would happen depending how well the boots were made and how far they've been walked/ran/snuck in. It would happen very gradually as well, I wouldn't want to get one's boots fixed up every few weeks.
I like this idea....
Quote from: Yam on February 13, 2008, 07:44:28 PM
Footpads are ninja shoes.
They are also for ninjas.
If footpads are all ninja shoes.. Does that mean every NPC in a certain City-State, is a Ninja?
I've seen over 7-8 NPCs -today- with footpads on..
EDIT: Ok.. It was more like 5 NPCs, but still.. If footpads are all ninja, awesome gear.. Why do commoners got'em? Was being dramatic about the amount, haha.
So does this mean we are all ninjas? No wonder, I love this city-state more!! w00t!
I used to love people that classify others because of footpads. I had a ranger that wore footpads because they were comfortable and he saw no use for wearing boots in the city. That lead to more then one accusation and eventually one PC dying because they were so sure I was some thief lol.
Quote from: Indy on February 17, 2008, 12:56:59 AM
I used to love people that classify others because of footpads. I had a ranger that wore footpads because they were comfortable and he saw no use for wearing boots in the city. That lead to more then one accusation and eventually one PC dying because they were so sure I was some thief lol.
Shit happens. I bet if a man dresses up girls clothing because it is comfortable and goes to a gay bar because the drinks are cheap he will be hit on because people there will assume he is gay. It might not be a true assumption, but it is the one that people will make. The same goes for footpads. Yeah, not every person wearing footpads is a thief... but that isn't going to stop anyone from making that assumption.
Quote from: Rindan on February 19, 2008, 10:36:54 PM
Quote from: Indy on February 17, 2008, 12:56:59 AM
I used to love people that classify others because of footpads. I had a ranger that wore footpads because they were comfortable and he saw no use for wearing boots in the city. That lead to more then one accusation and eventually one PC dying because they were so sure I was some thief lol.
Shit happens. I bet if a man dresses up girls clothing because it is comfortable and goes to a gay bar because the drinks are cheap he will be hit on because people there will assume he is gay. It might not be a true assumption, but it is the one that people will make. The same goes for footpads. Yeah, not every person wearing footpads is a thief... but that isn't going to stop anyone from making that assumption.
QFT!
Quote from: Rindan on February 19, 2008, 10:36:54 PM
Quote from: Indy on February 17, 2008, 12:56:59 AM
I used to love people that classify others because of footpads. I had a ranger that wore footpads because they were comfortable and he saw no use for wearing boots in the city. That lead to more then one accusation and eventually one PC dying because they were so sure I was some thief lol.
Shit happens. I bet if a man dresses up girls clothing because it is comfortable and goes to a gay bar because the drinks are cheap he will be hit on because people there will assume he is gay. It might not be a true assumption, but it is the one that people will make. The same goes for footpads. Yeah, not every person wearing footpads is a thief... but that isn't going to stop anyone from making that assumption.
Except that not -everyone- ICly should know what the fuck footpads are. That's using OOC knowledge to color the perceptions of your pcs ICly. If all genders are equal and noone thinks a second about someone's sexuality, then how someone dresses shouldn't create assumptions about that either.