Once upon a time, you could actually see sdescs.
Now the trend has reached the point where nearly everyone is a hooded figure.
To top it off, a new trend has started toward wearing masks too.
What is next, invisibility potions for all? Are people afraid of being recognized and talked to?
It went from one extreme to the next, I remember when I first started playing, I would get harassed and told to take my hood down all the time in cities, whether I was outside or inside.
Now everyone is so afraid to do it, even if someone is sitting in a bar for 30 minutes with his hood up.
I personally think it should be enforced again to take that shit off if you're just bumming in a building where there is no need for it to block the dust and dirt.
J-Rod
To me, hoods at least make sense when they're used against the weather. That being said, no need to wear them up in any indoor place.
Masks completely irritate me. Being in a room with five people all wearing masks with similar sdescs makes me murderous.
Quote from: Salt Merchant on January 26, 2008, 09:28:16 PM
Once upon a time, you could actually see sdescs.
Now the trend has reached the point where nearly everyone is a hooded figure.
To top it off, a new trend has started toward wearing masks too.
What is next, invisibility potions for all? Are people afraid of being recognized and talked to?
Speaking as one of these "Lone Ranger"/Zoro type characters, I'd like to apologize if my masked/cloaked fashion tastes have offended you.
Please be aware, though, that my decision to have some measure of anonymity has pretty much nothing to do with you. My last character, for example, wore a mask and a cloak. He employed psionics to shield his presence and on some occaisions magick as well.
Suffice it to say that, if my character had access to invisibility potions, he would most certainly have used them.
Some of my characters go so far as to avoid public places. A couple of my characters had interactions with other people only though the use of one or two errand boys who would make monthly trips in to town to buy soap, medicine and cloth for me, the things that I couldn't get on my own.
Please rest assured that none of these security precautions are designed to offend you but rather they make sense to the lifestyles of the characters that I play.
I hope that you can understand this.
Quote from: touringCompl3t3 on January 26, 2008, 10:39:21 PM
Quote from: Salt Merchant on January 26, 2008, 09:28:16 PM
Once upon a time, you could actually see sdescs.
Now the trend has reached the point where nearly everyone is a hooded figure.
To top it off, a new trend has started toward wearing masks too.
What is next, invisibility potions for all? Are people afraid of being recognized and talked to?
Speaking as one of these "Lone Ranger"/Zoro type characters, I'd like to apologize if my masked/cloaked fashion tastes have offended you.
Please be aware, though, that my decision to have some measure of anonymity has pretty much nothing to do with you. My last character, for example, wore a mask and a cloak. He employed psionics to shield his presence and on some occaisions magick as well.
Suffice it to say that, if my character had access to invisibility potions, he would most certainly have used them.
Some of my characters go so far as to avoid public places. A couple of my characters had interactions with other people only though the use of one or two errand boys who would make monthly trips in to town to buy soap, medicine and cloth for me, the things that I couldn't get on my own.
Please rest assured that none of these security precautions are designed to offend you but rather they make sense to the lifestyles of the characters that I play.
I hope that you can understand this.
There is a difference between wearing a mask to conceal your presence for the ten minutes it takes to run to the cleaners to clean your sorcerer robes of uber doom. And the people who sit in the taverns or other public places with their hoods and masks on for hours while interacting and talking to people.
THOSE are the ones that are silly.
Would you sit at the corner bar and have a hour long conversation with a man who was wearing a ski mask?
Would you?
J-Rod
I know the recent mask problem at the RPT was annoying, it was annoying for those of us wearing the masks too. That order came from up high though.
Brandon
Quote from: touringCompl3t3 on January 26, 2008, 10:39:21 PM
Speaking as one of these "Lone Ranger"/Zoro type characters, I'd like to apologize if my masked/cloaked fashion tastes have offended you.
Please be aware, though, that my decision to have some measure of anonymity has pretty much nothing to do with you. My last character, for example, wore a mask and a cloak. He employed psionics to shield his presence and on some occaisions magick as well.
Suffice it to say that, if my character had access to invisibility potions, he would most certainly have used them.
Some of my characters go so far as to avoid public places. A couple of my characters had interactions with other people only though the use of one or two errand boys who would make monthly trips in to town to buy soap, medicine and cloth for me, the things that I couldn't get on my own.
Please rest assured that none of these security precautions are designed to offend you but rather they make sense to the lifestyles of the characters that I play.
I hope that you can understand this.
I can understand the occasional character doing this. What I don't understand is why it's become nearly universal.
I personally think it is an IC problem. I have absolutely no problem with people wearing masks. If every person in the 'rinth or the desert wants to wear a mask, good for them. My issue is that inside of a city, you really shouldn't be allowed to wear a mask without the militia gang-banging you. There is no way to tell that someone isn't an evil but well known defiler or raider unless soldiers can look at your face. Anyone covering their face should instantly be suspect and considered a security risk.
Now, if some people or organizations have gotten special permission to wear masks inside the city, good for them. If they have not, then this is a militia/templars problem and they need to deal with it or else get spanked by their superiors. So, I'll make no judgment because I have no idea if there has been a special case made for certain people, but I think failing special permission, people wearing masks in the lawful part of town deserve a spanking.
I've seen a fella spit in annoyance at something, then stop short, remove his mask and wipe the saliva off the inner side of the mask. That was ... really nice.
Though I suppose, I tend to avoid spitting in Armageddon, due to the whole concept of lack of water theme.
It's an IC problem until it becomes an OOC problem because there are multiple people in a room during an RPT all wearing similar masks, or with their hoods up, or etc. RPTs are hard enough to coordinate and keep fun for people, without the added OOC headache of not being able to recognize someone due to a piece of fabric.
Quote from: Gimfalisette on January 26, 2008, 11:38:46 PM
It's an IC problem until it becomes an OOC problem because there are multiple people in a room during an RPT all wearing similar masks, or with their hoods up, or etc. RPTs are hard enough to coordinate and keep fun for people, without the added OOC headache of not being able to recognize someone due to a piece of fabric.
That isn't an OOC problem. That is an IC problem. People all wearing the same masks are obviously going to be a pain in the ass to identify both OOCly and ICly.
No, not really. Because I should be still be able to see their hair color, the cloak they're wearing, the insignia they're wearing, and so on. But I can't see any of that. I'm not talking about a room full of people I don't know and wouldn't otherwise recognize. I -should- be able to recognize these people without hardly looking at them. But because of masks, I can't. Thus, it's totally an OOC issue.
Quote from: Rindan on January 26, 2008, 11:28:34 PM
I personally think it is an IC problem. I have absolutely no problem with people wearing masks. If every person in the 'rinth or the desert wants to wear a mask, good for them. My issue is that inside of a city, you really shouldn't be allowed to wear a mask without the militia gang-banging you. There is no way to tell that someone isn't an evil but well known defiler or raider unless soldiers can look at your face. Anyone covering their face should instantly be suspect and considered a security risk.
Now, if some people or organizations have gotten special permission to wear masks inside the city, good for them. If they have not, then this is a militia/templars problem and they need to deal with it or else get spanked by their superiors. So, I'll make no judgment because I have no idea if there has been a special case made for certain people, but I think failing special permission, people wearing masks in the lawful part of town deserve a spanking.
I disagree with that. I don't feel that Zalanthans have a cultural value on openness. Yeah, I admit it would be weird if you and I wore masks to go to McDonalds in real life because Americans have a cultural value on honesty. But even posting on the internet, people obscure their real names and locations, valuing privacy.
I don't mind people walking around with hoods or masks if they want to remain anonymous.
What irks me is that some of them do this in public. Now come on, if you are fucking afraid of your face being recognized, what the fuck are you doing sitting at the bar? Get your drink fast and get the hell out, drink alone where no one can see you.
In missions, if people wearing same hoods are being a problem, I think you can order them to wear different hoods/masks? Mr brown, mr green, mr pink... just like in resorvoir dogs
Quote from: touringCompl3t3 on January 26, 2008, 11:57:47 PM
I disagree with that. I don't feel that Zalanthans have a cultural value on openness. Yeah, I admit it would be weird if you and I wore masks to go to McDonalds in real life because Americans have a cultural value on honesty. But even posting on the internet, people obscure their real names and locations, valuing privacy.
I'd say that the current trend represents a sudden shift away from openess, in that people tended to go around without hoods up and masks on until recently. Additionally, it's a trend only among the PC population. The NPCs are all content to show their sdescs in most places.
Gim, it was an ic problem.
I understand it is annoying to have 15 figures, 10 of which wearing masks, but that's just tough. If it's a huge problem, maybe ask the people with masks to take them off? Maybe kill them? Hire an assassin? Pay a Templar? Find a thief?
I don't think it's really an OOC problem, though. It is an IC problem because it can be dealt with through IC means.
And some PCs wear the masks for battle (battle masks being rather common for history) Or just Fashion.
Since the templars and soldiers probably have better stuff to worry about than people wearing hoods in the city, I volunteer to play the role of the new pink robed templar whose sole duty is to walk around amongst the thousands and thousands of people in Allanak and make sure their faces are visible. Maybe we can get rid of those idiots with beards too...they conceal way too much chin..
I say the militia should start enforcing it like nazis how they used to.
J-Rod
I used to bitch at people IG on a regular basis for unneccissarily having their hoods up, when my guy was in a relative position of power.
all i need is a button
a button that will lower all hoods and remove all the facewraps and veils and masks and craziness when i press it
now give me that button
Quote from: Rhyden on January 27, 2008, 02:14:55 AM
I understand it is annoying to have 15 figures, 10 of which wearing masks, but that's just tough. If it's a huge problem, maybe ask the people with masks to take them off? Maybe kill them? Hire an assassin? Pay a Templar? Find a thief?
I don't think it's really an OOC problem, though. It is an IC problem because it can be dealt with through IC means.
I disagree there. If a PC wanted to kill someome wearing a mask becase the player is OOC annoyed, it's an OOC problem. Now if the mask-wearer was giving them IC reason to deal with them - in addition to just wearing a mask -, such as trying to steal from them, or lurking suspiciously around every corner in every place they go, sure.
Seriously, a Zalanthan person killing hiring an assassin on every person they see wearing a mask would be a psychopath in line with Jason and Freddy Kruger, imho. Maskophobia? :P
It would be fascinating if we could take a page out of the historical use of masks. Specifically, the Masquerade (http://www.chameleonmasks.com/history_of_masks.html):
QuoteThe illicit blending of high and low classes was much sought after thrill. This meant masquerades were rich picking grounds for thieves as well as prostitutes.
By the end of the eighteenth century the Masquerade Ball had all but died out in England.The reason for the sudden decline is unclear, maybe a shift in social consciousness.
I agree that running around in mask in public is (generally) stupid.
Quote from: morrigan on January 27, 2008, 02:21:57 AM
Since the templars and soldiers probably have better stuff to worry about than people wearing hoods in the city, I volunteer to play the role of the new pink robed templar whose sole duty is to walk around amongst the thousands and thousands of people in Allanak and make sure their faces are visible. Maybe we can get rid of those idiots with beards too...they conceal way too much chin..
No one is complaining about people wearing a hood inside of a city. People are complaining about people running around with masks inside the city. Yes, The Templerate probably should be scratching their head and stopping people who are blatantly trying to conceal their face for the sake of concealing it. Zalanthas doesn't need "due process". If you look suspicious, they can strip you naked, steal your stuff, and throw you in the arena if that is what gets them off.
Like I said, this is an IC problem. I really don't think anyone is in much of a position to judge if the "right" thing is being done unless they are one of said mask wearers or a Templar who should be seeing to it that people who are running around looking blatantly like raiders and defilers either make special arraignments or bent over for a Allanaki style strip search.
If you're not in a position of power don't worry about what other people do. ;)
Quote from: Rindan on January 27, 2008, 05:45:36 AM
No one is complaining about people wearing a hood inside of a city. People are complaining about people running around with masks inside the city. Yes, The Templerate probably should be scratching their head and stopping people who are blatantly trying to conceal their face for the sake of concealing it. Zalanthas doesn't need "due process". If you look suspicious, they can strip you naked, steal your stuff, and throw you in the arena if that is what gets them off.
Like I said, this is an IC problem. I really don't think anyone is in much of a position to judge if the "right" thing is being done unless they are one of said mask wearers or a Templar who should be seeing to it that people who are running around looking blatantly like raiders and defilers either make special arraignments or bent over for a Allanaki style strip search.
That kind of makes sense. Would it be possible to split off masks and hoods into separate issues? They seem like separate issues to me.
So glad you guys have found something else to bitch about.
Quote from: manonfire on January 27, 2008, 11:59:01 AM
So glad you guys have found something else to bitch about.
Thank you for this illuminating contribution to the topic of discussion. Really. Every word added new insight.
Quote from: Rindan on January 27, 2008, 05:45:36 AM
Yes, The Templerate probably should be scratching their head and stopping people who are blatantly trying to conceal their face for the sake of concealing it. Zalanthas doesn't need "due process". If you look suspicious, they can strip you naked, steal your stuff, and throw you in the arena if that is what gets them off.
I think this hits on part of the problem. Where are all the aggressive templar patrols we used to see?
Quote from: Salt Merchant on January 27, 2008, 12:06:38 PM
Quote from: manonfire on January 27, 2008, 11:59:01 AM
So glad you guys have found something else to bitch about.
Thank you for this illuminating contribution to the topic of discussion. Really. Every word added new insight.
His is actually my favorite post.
No offense, but this isn't exactly something, "yell at people on the forums" worthy.
Quote from: Yam on January 27, 2008, 12:08:58 PM
Quote from: Salt Merchant on January 27, 2008, 12:06:38 PM
Quote from: manonfire on January 27, 2008, 11:59:01 AM
So glad you guys have found something else to bitch about.
Thank you for this illuminating contribution to the topic of discussion. Really. Every word added new insight.
His is actually my favorite post.
No offense, but this isn't exactly something, "yell at people on the forums" worthy.
I really do wish people would confine themselves to the topic of discussion. If the topic isn't of interest, then just don't post, rather than trying to "piss on the parade".
I am contributing to the thread.
I respectfully disagree with your sentiments. It's a valid contribution.
I do understand and think Manonfire made a contribution as well.
Complaining about masks, come on, its not like they hide mdesc anymore. So code wise they are no different then a hood or facewrap.
As to IC considerations...um...They are no different then a hood or a facewrap.
Cept that some people can at least get different ones so it helps to break up the normal crowd of 18 hooded figures. Also, you should remember, Most the time a masked PC stands out, they Know they stand out and are willing to stand out. They very likley even have a reason to stand out or not care if they do. Some even use it as a public persona. Mine does.
You know what though? A lot of people I know say it is easier to kill people if you can't see their face and their human characteristics. So.. You go figures! They are just waiting to get killed off.
Does not apply to Zalanthas. IRL most people get over protective for babies they don't even know as well. In arm? Players used to ate their babies when there was baby objects.
So.. People withs masks, hoods up, and the like are probably more akin to training dummies than players.
I definitely think it's an OOC problem because..
If everybody is wearing a hood in a tavern, and there's no significant keyword difference, I cannot interact with you.
I'm unable to target you with any keyword, thus preventing me from 'telling', 'stealing', 'killing', or any other coded response.
Does anyone have that big of an issue using the 'keyword' command? Really?
It's certainly not impossible to interact with people all using the exact same sdesc. Difficult, perhaps, but I still think it is as much an IC issue as an OOC one.
Quote from: Akaramu on January 27, 2008, 04:55:38 AM
Quote from: Rhyden on January 27, 2008, 02:14:55 AM
I understand it is annoying to have 15 figures, 10 of which wearing masks, but that's just tough. If it's a huge problem, maybe ask the people with masks to take them off? Maybe kill them? Hire an assassin? Pay a Templar? Find a thief?
I don't think it's really an OOC problem, though. It is an IC problem because it can be dealt with through IC means.
I disagree there. If a PC wanted to kill someome wearing a mask becase the player is OOC annoyed, it's an OOC problem. Now if the mask-wearer was giving them IC reason to deal with them - in addition to just wearing a mask -, such as trying to steal from them, or lurking suspiciously around every corner in every place they go, sure.
Seriously, a Zalanthan person killing hiring an assassin on every person they see wearing a mask would be a psychopath in line with Jason and Freddy Kruger, imho. Maskophobia? :P
We're not really disagreeing, Akaramu.I'm not saying killing someone because their mask annoys you is really a good solution. I'm saying it's an IC problem and can be solved through IC means. It can be OOCly irritating, but so can several other aspects of MUD gaming.
Quote from: psionic fungus on January 27, 2008, 04:58:18 PM
Does anyone have that big of an issue using the 'keyword' command? Really?
It's certainly not impossible to interact with people all using the exact same sdesc. Difficult, perhaps, but I still think it is as much an IC issue as an OOC one.
A lot of times the keywords aren't that easy to guess when someone has their hood up. If you don't know their names, you can easily see this:
A green eyed man, his eyes are very wide with thick lashes. He has a bulbous nose and puffy red cheeks. The man is tall for his race, with long blue-dyed hair that reaches his broad shoulders. He has long muscular legs supported by a wide torso with six-pack abs.
emote waves to ~green.
You wave to a green wooden box.
emote waves to ~wide.
You wave to a wide-eyed female street urchin.
emote waves to ~bulbous.
You wave to a squat bulbous gourd.
emote waves to ~man.
You wave to the bartender.
emote waves to ~muscular.
You wave to the thick, muscular half-giant.
and it turns out the guy's sdesc is "the thin big-footed human."
It is pretty common to find situations where you meet up with people whose sdescs don't really match their main descs very well, and when they all have their hoods up, it can get pretty stupid and pointless trying to interact with them.
Feel free to annoy a templar over this issue.
Lizzie, that is why there is a keyword command.
keyword green
keyword dusty
In the room:
1.dusty - the male wearing a dusty desert-camouflaged sandcloth facewrap
In Equipment:
2.dusty - a dusty desert-camouflaged, sandcloth-covered collar
So, 1.dusty will give the PC, 2.dusty would be your equipment.
Quote from: Lizzie on January 27, 2008, 05:24:16 PM
emote waves to ~green.
You wave to a green wooden box.
emote waves to ~wide.
You wave to a wide-eyed female street urchin.
emote waves to ~bulbous.
You wave to a squat bulbous gourd.
emote waves to ~man.
You wave to the bartender.
emote waves to ~muscular.
You wave to the thick, muscular half-giant.
:D Good example.
Here's another one.
> l
A dank, smelly bar.
The figure in a brown hooded sandcloth cloak sits here at the bar.
The tall figure in a brown hooded sandcloth cloak sits here at the bar.
The tall figure in a dusty grey hooded windcloak stands here.
The figure in a brown hooded sandcloth cloak sits here at the bar.
The tall, thin figure in a grey hooded windcloak sits here at the bar.
> key figure
...
> em approaches ~3.figure, her hand resting lightly on the hilt of her sword.
The tall figure in a dusty grey hooded windcloak leaves north.
The next-in-an-endless-string-of-teenaged-females approaches the figure in a brown hooded sandcloth cloak, her hand resting lightly on the hilt of her sword.
>
The figure in a brown hooded sandcloth cloak says, in sirihish:
"What the feck do you want?"
or
> em approaches ~3.figure, her hand
The tall figure in a dusty red hooded greatcloak arrives.
(player thinks "shit" and starts backspacing)
> em approaches ~4.figure, her hand rest
The tall figure in a brown hooded sandcloth cloak leaves north.
The tall figure in a brown hooded sandcloth cloak stands up from the bar.
(players backspaces frantically and types "key figure") again.
> em appro
The figure in a dark, hooded cloak arrives from the north.
Quote from: X-D on January 27, 2008, 05:45:43 PM
Lizzie, that is why there is a keyword command.
keyword green
keyword dusty
In the room:
1.dusty - the male wearing a dusty desert-camouflaged sandcloth facewrap
In Equipment:
2.dusty - a dusty desert-camouflaged, sandcloth-covered collar
So, 1.dusty will give the PC, 2.dusty would be your equipment.
Yes and as Salt Merchant has so graciously pointed out, by the time you find out the "dark figure in the hooded cloak" that you are actually trying to target, a different "dark figure in the hooded cloak" has just walked in, bumping YOUR dark figure in the hooded cloak down on the keyword list. But it's too late, because you already hit the enter key on your emote, and you have just tried to kiss your Senior Big-Deal Lieutenant Second-Only-To-the-High Templar boss, who just happens to always wear his hood up because his player is yet another dumb shit who insists on not paying attention to whether or not he's hooded inside a public place.
Heh, true, and funny, just means you need be a slight bit more creative is all.
Or, you stop trying to be creative, because you are always trying to be creative in an attempt to interact with half a dozen hooded figures. And instead, you give up trying, because you're tired of your emote finally showing up after the moment has already passed, and the guy you wanted to wave to left 5 minutes ago and you're STILL trying to keyword him.
I don't know why anybody likes to talk to figures. Do you really know that is your buddy? He might have gotten killed and all his stuff is being worn by the guy sent to kill you.
I know I avoid figures. They're too shady for me. They are probably magickers also. Trying to not let us see what they're magicking up. Probably going to eat my heart. Yeah.
They are probably scared to look into my eyes, also. Only magickers keep their hood up all the time.
One step toward a solution : Make a document for basic etiquette with one of the items being, "Putting away your weapons and showing your face is a widely accepted manner of showing good intentions." That way, you make it clear that people who don't do these things are going to be seen as hostile.
Sounds like those who may be causing people to wear masks IC need to be cautious of the OOC misdirection havoc this can cause.
But normally there is IC pressure against this sort of thing, for good reason.
The hooded figure enters your location.
> shout HELP! GARDS! BANZAI!
> subdue hooded
> l hooded
> tell hooded (clearing ^me throat) Oh. Yeh. Sorry, Lady Borsail.
Quote from: Maybe42or54 on January 27, 2008, 06:22:57 PM
I don't know why anybody likes to talk to figures. Do you really know that is your buddy? He might have gotten killed and all his stuff is being worn by the guy sent to kill you.
I know I avoid figures. They're too shady for me. They are probably magickers also. Trying to not let us see what they're magicking up. Probably going to eat my heart. Yeah.
They are probably scared to look into my eyes, also. Only magickers keep their hood up all the time.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on January 28, 2008, 01:01:53 PM
The hooded figure enters your location.
> shout HELP! GARDS! BANZAI!
> subdue hooded
> l hooded
> tell hooded (clearing ^me throat) Oh. Yeh. Sorry, Lady Borsail.
it looks more like an excuse for a fantasy to me than a problem
I kind of look at wearing a mask to the Gaj like me wearing a balaclava to the local pub IRL. The whole point is to be anonymous but in actual fact you're attracting a great deal of attention to yourself. It just so happens that in a coded world where masks block descs it doesn't matter how much attention you draw to yourself, you remain anonymous because the code prevents anyone from getting past it. I don't think it makes much sense and I think masked people make crowds nervous.
Stare command.
Branches to "stare daggers."
I like it.
Quote from: Ourla on January 28, 2008, 07:01:02 PM
Branches to "stare daggers."
Also branches from 'throw', 'peek', 'watch', and 'bribe templar'
Most convenience stores have common rules that disallow wearing a mask inside, especially during Halloween.
Common sense to help avoid being robbed. I could see it applying in Zalanthas.
My previous PC humiliated some random zoro ranger in luirs for wearing a mask for no apparent reason, it got a laugh from a few pc's and the mask ended up coming off pretty quick. Your pc doesn't like amos wearing a mask, voice your opinion ig, laugh at fella for being silly and go on about your day. About a year ago I remember watching people get harassed for having even a hood or facewrap on in a tavern, why not return to that way of dealing with it eh?
Personally I just think wearing a mask around looks stupid, unless your PC is: a) a raider, b) a thief or c) going to a costume party.
Quote from: Southie on January 29, 2008, 08:41:14 AM
Personally I just think wearing a mask around looks stupid, unless your PC is: a) a raider, b) a thief or c) going to a costume party.
Quote from: Fathi on January 29, 2008, 03:17:35 PM
Quote from: Southie on January 29, 2008, 08:41:14 AM
Personally I just think wearing a mask around looks stupid, unless your PC is: a) a raider, b) a thief or c) going to a costume party.
Lest it fits their personality, or they are out in the wild.
Quote from: Southie on January 29, 2008, 08:41:14 AM
Personally I just think wearing a mask around looks stupid, unless your PC is: a) a raider, b) a thief or c) going to a costume party.
Or just really ugly.
Quote from: Qzzrbl on January 29, 2008, 10:05:36 PM
Quote from: Southie on January 29, 2008, 08:41:14 AM
Personally I just think wearing a mask around looks stupid, unless your PC is: a) a raider, b) a thief or c) going to a costume party.
Or just really ugly.
Or trying to evade an even worse social stigma than being stared at because of a hood. :P
The beautiful three-eared, green-haired mutant lowers the hood of his cloak.
QuoteMost convenience stores have common rules that disallow wearing a mask inside, especially during Halloween.
I think this is a very eurocentric (or americentric) position to take on the issue. There are places in the world where face coverings are incredibly common, and no-one is at all surprised or shocked that they cannot see a large portion of the population's face. Zalanthas isn't a place where people are open and honest with each other, and I see no reason why we should seek out cultural norms that emulate a society that -is- open and honest. Concealed weapons are not against the law, why would obscuring your face be?
I think this is very much a cultural issue, and should be handled in characterly. It would make sense to me if different areas in the game responded differently to facial obfuscation, and I really would like to see something like this integrated into 2.Arm (perhaps Tyleki residence only show their faces to trusted companions, and are almost always masked in public).
Quote from: psionic fungus on January 30, 2008, 06:32:48 PM
QuoteMost convenience stores have common rules that disallow wearing a mask inside, especially during Halloween.
I think this is a very eurocentric (or americentric) position to take on the issue. There are places in the world where face coverings are incredibly common, and no-one is at all surprised or shocked that they cannot see a large portion of the population's face. Zalanthas isn't a place where people are open and honest with each other, and I see no reason why we should seek out cultural norms that emulate a society that -is- open and honest. Concealed weapons are not against the law, why would obscuring your face be?
I think this is very much a cultural issue, and should be handled in characterly. It would make sense to me if different areas in the game responded differently to facial obfuscation, and I really would like to see something like this integrated into 2.Arm (perhaps Tyleki residence only show their faces to trusted companions, and are almost always masked in public).
I agree with the fun guy. I would think facewraps would be incredibly common, even in cities. Perhaps not these big obsidian facades. I always found those a bit stupid to wear into the Gaj. But a sandcloth facewrap? No. It wouldn't be far fetched to wear it around in a city and even into a bar. Go ahead and watch Lawrence of Arabia.
I don't see what the big deal is, and psionic fungus is right: Zalanthas != America. Cultural norms and practices regarding clothing, etc. are completely different.
Until the staff post a document stating "wearing masks and hoods is culturally unacceptable," I will carry on not giving a damn about it.
p.s. I reserve the right to be annoyed with the situation when there are several persons wearing identical cloaks/wraps/etc. in the same room.
Yeah... uhm... I think people are comparing their real life suburban life way too much with the harsh world of Zalanthas. In my opinion, there are several other VNPC's hanging around any given tavern (some more than others) wearing hoods/masks/wraps or whatever at any given time. I've been some places in real life where I wondered why someone was wearing a hood or facewrap in a certain situation but it was obvious for a few different reasons why they would want their identity to remain hidden. So there are these places in and out of the gameworld and some may be more appropriate than others.
Still, I tend to be more on the "fantasy-realm" side of this discussion and I like to see a small portion of the populous with hoods up whether they are indoors or out. It fits the game... and there are probably reasons... whether that person just wants to be left alone or draw attention to themselves or whatever it may be - there could be numerous reasons. Heck, maybe they just think it makes them look cool and they want to be sexxy, lolz. Or maybe they are gangsta thugz that just want to live the hip-hop 'rinthi lifestyle and... yeah.. you know... it's a lifestyle and a state of mind... not just a type of music. Heh. Anyway... I understand that there are certain circumstances when/why someone's PC may want to harass another for wearing a hood indoors, but then again I think it is OOC and creates a ridiculous scene that just doesn't fit the gameworld in a lot of situations. That can be annoying as well. ;)
Facewraps should be worn outdoors ... in any tavern or such, facewraps would not be common at all. In the market or such, sure, since you will be stepping back out in a bit.
Hoods should be fine anywhere, unless somebody with the power to do so tells you that they are not.
I don't know... Why not cover your face if you don't want people to see it?
I have served Arab men in a mid-western city cappuccino at a cafe where they would sit around sipping and shooting the shit while wearing hood-like head wrappings (and once, some dudes tried to smoke hash from a hookah, right at the mall!)... Apparently, it is not impossible to enjoy a conversation with your friend and have a drink while your face is covered. While it is a lot less common to see in public, I've witnessed Arab women doing just that (and it does look like a chore).
I imagine these are much more common sights in Mid-Eastern countries than in the American Mid-West. Just because coverings aren't common in America doesn't mean that is true elsewhere. You just don't go to a ski-lodge and get shocked that people are wearing scarves and balaclavas...
Showing your face is something that is just not done in public in some cultures. I see no reason why this couldn't be true on Zalanthas... In fact, I think it could be quite interesting.
At the very least, don't let your RL preconceptions about this take over...
Quote from: Salt Merchant on January 26, 2008, 09:28:16 PM
Once upon a time, you could actually see sdescs.
Now the trend has reached the point where nearly everyone is a hooded figure.
To top it off, a new trend has started toward wearing masks too.
What is next, invisibility potions for all? Are people afraid of being recognized and talked to?
I think you're way, way, way behind the times. ;)
The trend to stack shit to hide your description has been going on for a few years at
least. Hoods, deep cowls, full masks, wraps, etc are the rage because they offer some semblance of anonymity.
But seriously, is there anything wrong with that?
I found your statement about potions hilarious too, for obvious reasons. ;D
The urge and reason to hide hair and ears (cause the face won't be covered) must be very strong if a PC wastes valuable body liquid because of sweating more with a hood up, despite not needing protection from the burning sun. *shrug*
Agreed with Akaramu. But also, Zalanthas isn't America, but it -also- isn't any of the United Arab Emirates either. In some cultures in real life, women never show their faces because their religious law forbids it. In some cultures, some men keep much of their heads covered for the same reasons; because their religious laws require it. Zalanthas doesn't have religious laws and with very few exceptions, a hooded figure -inside- is considered suspect until proven otherwise. That doesn't mean hooded figures are required to be unhooded. It also doesn't mean the hooded figure has to be cajoled or yelled at. But it does mean that the hooded figure is NOT blending in, and is NOT inconspicuous, and is actually -very- conspicuous and -very- noticeable. So if you want to be "just one of the crowd" in a place such as the Gaj, for example, you would probably -not- want to forget to take your hood off after sitting down at the bar to relax for a game-hour. There is definitely at least one place in Zalanthas where it's just the opposite, but really this isn't a game-wide thing. It depends on which bar you're in.
As far as I can tell, there is really no documentation on hoods and their cultural uses or acceptability on Zalanthas. There is no reason a cultural aversion to showing your face needs be religions. Any information gleaned from NPCs is conjecture, and PC culture tends to change from months to month...
I just don't think it's a big deal...
And I think it would be cool if different cultures in 2.Arm -did- have different documented feelings on facial obfuscation.
Peace.
I agree with psionic fungus. I don't find masks/hoods to be that big of a deal.
Some characters want to be anonymous, some want to look cool. Others may have a facial rash. :P
Sure it's a bit more difficult to interact with others when ten people are hooded, veiled and masked up in a tavern, but that's the point! The keyword command is dead useful in these situations. And if your good friend Amos is sitting beside you amidst ten other hoods, simply use your good buddy's keyword.
The only time hoods and masks are a big deal to me is when it's necessary IG for them to be off. Like Lord Templar McHardy Nose questioning an elf. Or Sergeant McOneEye is interviewing a new Runner.
Otherwise, if you can't beat'em, join'em.
Quote from: Rhyden on January 31, 2008, 04:00:45 PM
Otherwise, if you can't beat'em, join'em.
Or kill them.
Seriously though, this is a good example of that "be the change" tripe that sometimes gets thrown around.
You want to be anonymous, and yet you go to a bar to put yourself on display.
Good luck drinking and eating through your mask there too.
Why are you in a bar again? Is it to make contact with other thugs? Except that it seems mostly you'll just find a hunter, aide or crafter under that other mask.
Hardly "cool" at all.
But please do remember that in certain places, there are actual established rules about having one's hood covered. In one place, it is considered customary and no one should feel singled out if they show up wearing one. In another, it is acceptable practice for the local law enforcement to ask you to lower your hood when inside a certain building. In still others, it might not make any difference at all. So if a soldier in one place asks you to lower your hood, your character shouldn't be all that surprised, or act belligerant, because he would likely have virtually observed a VNPC soldier asking the same of a VNPC hooded figure over the course of a game-day.
But to assume that it's perfectly fine, game-wide, is an untrue and unfair assumption.
Quote from: Rhyden on January 31, 2008, 04:00:45 PM
I agree with psionic fungus. I don't find masks/hoods to be that big of a deal.
Some characters want to be anonymous, some want to look cool. Others may have a facial rash. :P
Sure it's a bit more difficult to interact with others when ten people are hooded, veiled and masked up in a tavern, but that's the point! The keyword command is dead useful in these situations. And if your good friend Amos is sitting beside you amidst ten other hoods, simply use your good buddy's keyword.
The only time hoods and masks are a big deal to me is when it's necessary IG for them to be off. Like Lord Templar McHardy Nose questioning an elf. Or Sergeant McOneEye is interviewing a new Runner.
Otherwise, if you can't beat'em, join'em.
QuoteYou want to be anonymous, and yet you go to a bar to put yourself on display.
Being anonymous and not being seen are not the same things... Say I want to sell spice illegally. If you only know that you bought your dust off some elf in a black cloak and a mask there's not much anyone can do except search every elf in a black cloak and mask (a disguise that can be changed on a regular basis). However, if you know that it was a green-eyed elf with missing front teeth, spiky hair, and a tattoo of a coin on his cheek there is a good chance that this elf can be identified.
People who don't want other people to know their face need a place to do business too.
QuoteGood luck drinking and eating through your mask there too.
Like I said before, I've seen it IRL. Doesn't look like it is very comfortable, but it functions... Drinking is easier (I've certainly seen a number of anarchists drinking and smoking while wearing bandanas over their faces =P)
QuoteWhy are you in a bar again? Is it to make contact with other thugs? Except that it seems mostly you'll just find a hunter, aide or crafter under that other mask.
What's with the hostility? Have you actually taken the time to interact with and get to know any of these characters? Maybe you would find out why they're wearing masks at the bar. Shit, I don't know, I've never seen it to be a problem whatsoever.
QuoteHardly "cool" at all.
I fail to see what this has to do with anything. Are hoods and masks supposed to be cool? Are they fashion statements? Besides, we all know that the only way to be cool on Zalanthas is to wear dark-lensed sunslits... And they take up the face wear location, so you can't wear a mask with them anyhow.
Nyah.
Quote from: psionic fungus on January 31, 2008, 06:39:35 PM
Nyah.
You dare?
*sees red*
So go ahead, wear your masks and let's play keyword musical chairs then. Maybe I'll create a dwarf with the focus of wearing a bag over his head. With two eye-holes cut out. It's a worthy focus because he'd have to become a master crafter before it could become possible. Then he can start making ultracool head bags and everyone can wear those and not recognize each other in the coolest way imaginable.
;)
I've been reading this thread and here is my changed view:
If you OOCly dislike hoods/facewraps/masks, I am with you, however, them wearing it adds a level of conflict to the game, however small that level is. By them doing it, it gives you something to interact with. Many times I have only talked to people and "RP'ed" with them because I was telling them to lower their hood, laughing at, taunting, or harassing them, just because of what they were wearing. On the other hand, My pc used to have a friend with a pretty cool cloak, well, one day I see a figure wearing that cloak sit next to me, and I started talking to him like he was the friend I knew, but I looked closer and that rat bastard was a gemmer that bought the same cloak. That added a lot to the RP.
Sure, it is an OOC nuisance, but an IC RP tool that I enjoy. Even if I hate it OOCly.
Wearing a hood in the Gaj: Normal.
Wearing a facewrap in the Gaj: Maybe normal. Wouldn't get too many weird looks.
Wearing a mask of solid obsidian in the Gaj: People will think you're a retard.
Wearing a hood, facewrap, or mask in the Trader's: People will give you funny looks. The bouncer might not let you in.
Wearing a hood, facewrap, or mask in Luir's/Redstorm/Cenyr/Blackwing Outpost: Totally normal. Except that full obsidian mask. People might still think you're a retard.
Wearing a hood, facewrap, or mask in the Sanctuary: Weird.
Wearing a hood/facewrap in other Tuluki Bars: Not weird.
On that note, as I mentioned in the enforcing fashion thread, I think the Sanctuary needs a NPC bouncer.
Bloody, filthy savages should be turned away at the door.
;)
Quote from: Yam on January 31, 2008, 07:10:34 PM
Wearing a hood in the Gaj: Normal.
Wearing a facewrap in the Gaj: Maybe normal. Wouldn't get too many weird looks.
Wearing a mask of solid obsidian in the Gaj: People will think you're a retard.
Wearing a hood, facewrap, or mask in the Trader's: People will give you funny looks. The bouncer might not let you in.
Wearing a hood, facewrap, or mask in Luir's/Redstorm/Cenyr/Blackwing Outpost: Totally normal. Except that full obsidian mask. People might still think you're a retard.
Wearing a hood, facewrap, or mask in the Sanctuary: Weird.
Wearing a hood/facewrap in other Tuluki Bars: Not weird.
Beating the crap out of someone for telling you to remove your hood/facewrap: Priceless.
Watching someone get beat for not removing it.
Just as priceless.
In the end, my characters are going to wear masks, raise their hoods, and wrap their faces when and wherever I find it appropriate. If there's repercussions, I'll deal with them IC. If you don't think my character is cool for wearing a facewrap over his obsidian mask under his raised hood, go right ahead. :)
Edit: Though I would love it if there was a chance to spill water/food over yourself if you tried consuming it with a mask/wrap on. ;D
Quote from: X-D on January 31, 2008, 09:53:09 PM
Watching someone get beat for not removing it.
Just as priceless.
Motion to lock the thread.
The entertaining part about that tour is the thread had pretty much died till you posted again.