Quote from: "T.S. Eliot"This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
I know that I'm not the only player to notice this, but player population numbers are very significantly down from the pre-Reborn announcement. For example, the 4-week average of unique account logins prior to the announcement was 324; our current 4-week average is 241. The 4-week average number of character applications was 107; currently it is 57. That's a 26% average reduction in unique logins and a 47% average reduction in applications. I've also noted generally, from what I can see, that we are down about 10 to 20 players on at peak; where we used to run in the high 50s to mid 60s players logged in, now we run in the mid 40s.
I had been hoping that the dip was only temporary, due to the holidays, but honestly it doesn't look like that. Most universities are now back in session, most workers are back at their normal job schedules, and yet we have nothing like the kind of numbers we had at the end of September, an equivalent sort of season.
In my experience, it's getting harder and harder to find other people in game for interactions like buying, selling, organizing, hiring, and just hanging out. So getting things done is becoming more difficult. And thus in many ways, the game is becoming more...boring, at least on a daily level.
Of the characters I saw a few months ago who seemed to have a thing going, who had a place in society and were fulfilling a need, many seem to have *poofed* and then not be replaced by similar characters. Many leader-type spots seem vacant (due to characters dying/retiring, or just due to the players not playing, I don't know) and do not appear to be being filled, or be planned for filling.
Note that I am not -complaining-, I am observing. The above is the data that precedes my questions.
And my questions are these:
-- What can we, the players, do about the situation? What can we do, especially, to get our friends back to the game? Or if you're not playing, what would get YOU back in the game?
-- What can the imms do to retain or lure back the playerbase during this transition period? (Players and imms both may have ideas about this, I dunno.)
I know I'm not the only one who doesn't want to see 1.ARM end in a whimper because we just don't have the players to make a big bang. And selfishly, I don't want to be bored the next few months if players continue to trickle away. (Sorry, I just ain't a solo-RPer.)
So, ideas? Or your own commitment to keeping this version of the game lively til it closes?
Yep, numbers are definitely down by a very noticable amount. It's not surprising that a fair amount of people have quit since the announcement, I think most of us felt less motivation to continue playing. I think most will return with the new version, though, and whether or not they stay will depend entirely on how they like Armageddon 2.
What can we do about it? Well, along with the shrinking playerbase, I've also perceived a decrease in activity among the remaining PCs. Many seem to simply not do anything much and I suppose some are just waiting out the time until the new version is ready. I'm not innocent here either, I've definitely had trouble motivating myself to do anything that involves other players. I suppose the best thing to do is to play like we used to, and do our best to at least continue to make things happen.
One thing that bothers me is that in addition to the lower numbers, people seem to be spreading out as well. My impression (which could easily be wrong) is that the staff has been more lenient with special applications lately, allowing more players to play roles they've wanted to so that they can get a chance before the game ends. This means a lot of magickers, halflings, desert-elves and other restricted roles that further dilute the playerbase. I can see the problem in that, but I can also understand why the staff are willing to let more people try out roles that they would have otherwise had to wait longer for, since it's basically now or never.
I think the best thing to do is gear up an advertising campaign directed to get people into Armageddon BEFORE the End (now), so that they understand enough about the game to enjoy it when things go crazy, and hopefully will want to stick around for Arm 2.
I understand Allanak has a big ongoing RPT-style event, maybe this could be used as a lure to get new players involved. Similar things could be set up in Tuluk, Luir's, etc... the most important thing is for our active players to try and stay busy making big things happen that will affect a lot and leave opportunities for new players to jump in. This could be military campaigns, or festivals, or contests, or whatever.
Longtime players who are taking a break should be encouraged to come back. 5 months is still a hell of a long time when you consider the average PC lifespan is considerably less.
We could also post threads on TMS, TMC, and RPImud advertising the game and cool IG events going on. And make people start voting more again.
I died a while back and I'm seriously not making a new character until Arm.2 comes out.. I'm sure others are like that, once the new game is up and running, I'm definitely going to come back..
It doesn't matter to me if you tell me that I'll miss great things, because seriously, I might create a new character a week or so before the end, or when the real big things start happening, just to see how it ends, but the in-between I'm not really interested in it and I find that I learn more about it by reading the forums and Halaster's posts than by playing the game...
I'm not angry at anyone or anything, I just don't have the drive to create a new character now that it's all ending, but I look forward to playing Arm.2 like crazy :) In the meantime, I'm playing video games and trying out other RPI muds..
Also now you must start saying that there's 4 months left to the game, since they are planning the end of Arm.1 for June 1st 2007, so that's 4 months, not 5 :) Time is ticking away...
I have noticed the trend. I think many of the reasons stated are quite valid. I have also seen a reduction in the number of first time applications. I think there are a couple of reasons for that happening. For one, our voting numbers are down. If it because people are disenchanted or whatever, I will tell you, keeping name recognition out there is important to gather new people to try the game.
The other thing I find troubling, and quite self defeating, is the comments about the game 'closing'. For one the game is not closing, it's changing, adapting. Second, this ingrains the additive of 'why even try'. It is not helping any.
On a positive note, I think people will find 'stuff' going down, and even with all the negative talk, people will be there to see the end... and the beginning. For now be patient, in time the numbers will rebound.
Oh.. and vote.
It's a bummer, but that's the price of shaking things up.
Hopefully the end-game won't be a single or handful of ape-shit disasters or events, but a long[/l] procession of H/RPT's with things taking a gradual turn towards chaos and change. With exciting events going down activity will increase once more.
For the moment things are in limbo, from my point of view. Alot of us are still kind of bummed and have moved Arm to the backburner. I'm trying to muster enthusiasm for a new character but it's hard, knowing he'll be jerked away in a few months, even if it's in favor of something better.
-WP
Less people playing, less applications to approve, less requests too I bet. Means... more coding for arm.2. Yea! I'm not playing as much, because.. the military doesn't take kindly to playing a game called "Armageddon" at work. I don't know, but it seems my 3 special apps have been lost also. Back to the daily grind.
I don't think I've played more than a few minutes in about... two months now. Don't particularly intend to either, especially since I am between computers right now. Maybe I'll like the new version maybe not, either way I've still lost my luster.
Quote from: "Belenos"Blah...
Blah...
Oh.. and vote.
I feel like I can't change the world, currently. Or, the only change that I can do is to destroy the world. There's no building or creating going on.
The projects I want to create won't be created because they require work. And I don't think people want to work on creating things, currently.
That's the feeling I have.
QuoteNumbers are down, what can we do about it?
My advice would be: Don't give up.
I'm not sure if voting would really help anything, because question is not "how to make new players interested", but "what to do to make current players interested". I might be wrong, of course.
And I agree with mansa: Creating new things is a problem, because I personally have a feeling that everything I would work on now would be destroyed soon anyway. I am not saying such feeling makes it impossible, but it sure makes it harder.
We need to work on getting our core people who have strayed away to come back if at all possible. And come back before the last week of Arm1. There is plenty you could accomplish in four/five months with some creativity and effort. Or why worry about accomplishing things? Just jump in and play and see where the game takes you. Play some PCs who are risk takers, who live for the moment. Try and see how many cool things you can do before the end.
Also, while we may not be able to create, we can certainly destroy... why wait for the staff to nuke Tuluk or Luir's? Go for it now! Or try and make your PC the sole reason that halflings or desert elves will be extinct or something. :twisted:
I do also thing even now we can be promoting the game and the plotlines around the sites we vote on in their forums, and try and attract both new and old players back.
Quote from: "ale six"Also, while we may not be able to create, we can certainly destroy...
Umm... I don't think that we are 'unable to create'. I just say it is a bit harder now than usually.
I've been playing tons recently, more so than usual in fact, but I'm definately feeling a strain on my creative inclinations. Every now and again I notice that interesting things ARE happening, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to the playerbase to support it and really make these things as cool as they should be.
My effort would be to remind those players that have been discouraged and that aren't playing that their presence is sorely missed and that they could be contributing too and enjoying some cool end of world plots if they join back in.
I also think that unless some people do come back that the playerbase will continue to decline as it's getting harder and harder to play without those 'key' people around. The key people being those that OP mentioned, the various roles that you need to make things tick over.
And Malken, get your ass in gear and get back on Arm. :wink:
I sorely wish there was a way to draw the players back in that chose to step back when Arm2 was announced. I'm glad that it sounds like most of them intend to start back up again once the new game rolls out, but I really think quitting now is pretty defeatist. Five months is a long time to have a lot of fun with this old girl before she gets put down.
Actually I wasn't playing this regularly for the late few months.. but I came back to be part of the story. I don't think my current PC will ever influence the world, but thinking about the slightest possibility.. that is something worth trying :), I guess. And I will play as much as I can while this game is up and running... 5 months.. that is alot of time to do things if you play regularly.. most of my PC's never lasted that long and I had great time almost with all of them.. why not continue playing, if I can have the same taste and maybe more.
Come back and play! Don't leave and wait for ARM2..
Also, please vote.. we need new players all the time..
Many of those "key" players are the way they are because they can create things. They can create plotlines, create structures, create a fun atmosphere, etc... Those players are usually highly motivated, creative, and purposeful souls that find pleasure from a sense of accomplishment in completing a task, while their minions might simply find enjoyment in carrying out the individual steps.
It was like entering a race with a $20,000 prize. Halfway through the race, someone announces that there's no more $20,000 prize and the finish line has been removed, but everyone is welcome to keep running. Well, that's when about half of the people stop, turn around and go home. They came to race, not to run. And it makes all the difference in the world.
Once the race is on again, they will return. Until that time, it's probably going to be a bit more challenging than usual.
-LoD
All I can say is "Keep the faith, baby."
I know well that feeling of playing the game becoming boring and the fear that it will become more so. And it is not because the game itself is boring. On the contrary, it is more interesting than ever. It's just that when you play a social character you necessarily need others to interact with. As much fun as my clan members are to RP with, I'd like to see a few more people than them now and then. ;)
It's a vicious circle. The more times people log in and find no one to RP with, the less likely they are to log in the next night and then there are even less people on. And on and on.
I think those of us that are still playing need to just hang in there. Keep logging in, keep on generating and maintaining plots no matter how small they might be, keep on giving life to the world. Maybe some of those who have been drifting away will find themselves engaged again. Maybe some of those who quit when the announcement was made will pop in and find interesting things happening. Ya never know.
Quote from: "LoD"It was like entering a race with a $20,000 prize. Halfway through the race, someone announces that there's no more $20,000 prize and the finish line has been removed, but everyone is welcome to keep running. Well, that's when about half of the people stop, turn around and go home.
...and some of that other half simply crawl forward instead of running, because running does not matter anymore itself.
I love that comparsion, LoD.
Quote from: "LoD"Many of those "key" players are the way they are because they can create things. They can create plotlines, create structures, create a fun atmosphere, etc... Those players are usually highly motivated, creative, and purposeful souls that find pleasure from a sense of accomplishment in completing a task, while their minions might simply find enjoyment in carrying out the individual steps.
It was like entering a race with a $20,000 prize. Halfway through the race, someone announces that there's no more $20,000 prize and the finish line has been removed, but everyone is welcome to keep running.
I think my point was that there is still PLENTY you can create in terms of plotlines and fun atmosphere. You may not be able to get an imm to spend some time building your magickal fantastic doom fortress or your Amos' Shop O' Amazing Wonders anymore, but beyond that, what makes you think the prize has been taken away?
The prize is the fun of roleplaying and the fun of having an impact. The fun of making history or having your name immortalized in history even if you know history is about to end.
I personally still have about 5 concepts I really wanted to play. My regret is that I won't have time for all of them. But I'd rather get a chance to play one or two out of five than none.
All you people who have left, ask yourself this: Is there honestly NOTHING else you wanted to do or you see possible for yourself to achieve in the current version of Arm? If so, okay, we'll see you in four or five months. If not, come back!!
Though....
One might say the prize now is large then it ever has been. For me the idea of something I do echoing through (or helping to cause, play a signficant part in or otherwise aiding) the eternally remembered cataclysm doubles the 20k. :)
Perhaps that because I play terrible people who rejoice in destruction, mayhem and disaster.
But I've been playing *more* with hopes that my characters get to help topple allanak and piss all over it's smoldering remains.
Muhahahaha!
Quote from: "ale six"The prize is the fun of roleplaying and the fun of having an impact. The fun of making history or having your name immortalized in history even if you know history is about to end.
Exactly.
Me, I don't get this "it's like there's no $20,000 prize any more" thing. Or maybe it's too close to the "I have to be the biggest and highest circle so I'll pay real life money for a character in this game and do nothing but work skills so I can WIN at the end because there's no other point in playing" attitude that was the main reason I left the OTHER MUD I used to play.
The horses don't care about the prize at the end. They race because they love to run. For them it's not about the jockey, or the owner, or the roses in a horseshoe around their neck. It's about the thrill of the run itself. The surge out the gate. Rounding that first curve. Pounding down the backstretch. Call me a horse. I play for the thrill of the run itself, not any end reward. And we've still got MONTHS left of runs.
Don't think about the world ending... boy is that bad RP!!!! (note tongue firmly in cheek) Your characters don't know that! Get them out there! You think you can't make an impression on the WORLD any more... but you know what? Your characters can still make an impression on the people IN it... and the other people who play it. Leave a mark. Come back and play.
I was going to post, but then Kiri and Ale Six said everything for me.
As much as I think it's beautiful that you all think you may have a chance to leave your mark in the game, I also think that it's also highly unrealistic..
Unless you already have an established character or that the admins are allowing some leeway in plots development timewise, it is highly unlikely that your character will be able to exterminate an entire civilization of desert elves, kill all the halflings around, blow up Tuluk or what not...
You might be part of an already planned RPT but I seriously doubt that you will be remembered afterward for it, but at least you might be able to tell others that you were part of it..
None of that is going to pull us back into the game, it's just what keeps you playing, that you think you might leave more than a scratch in the world.
What might pull me back in the game is telling me, even vaguely, what is going on right now or what sort of roles I could make that would allow me to play in the thick of things right from the start.. It is too late for me to start a nobody hunter and hope that I picked the right region or the right profession that will quickly place me in the center of action... Perhaps another of Halaster's post that could tell us of what is happening or might happen, even if really vague, might help me drive me back in the game :)
But if you want me to play another hunter who dreams of making enough to own his own little place and have a family, that's a bit too late... For me, at least :) That's my opinion, I'm not saying it's what everyone thinks, I'm just saying that's how I see it right now :)
Oh, and the fact that Beux told me to get my ass back in the game also tends to work.. *mutters meekly and goes to create another character, managing a weak "Yes, ma'am", on his way. * :lol:
Quote from: "Malken"What might pull me back in the game is telling me, even vaguely, what is going on right now or what sort of roles I could make that would allow me to play in the thick of things right from the start..
Well. If I was going to make a wild guess it would seem like about four clans in the south are involved in something... unless the ongoing RPT mentioned is a big tea party.
It seems like there are things going on up north too, unless all the RPTs mentioned up there are tree-hugging fests or bardic competitions.
Kurac usually has stuff going on. So does the Guild.
Or you could make an indie hunter and just whore yourself out to nobles and templars and merchant family members and ask them for jobs. If you can find a cool one, stick with them and see what kind of crazy shit they'll stick you into.
People, do not forget that the holidays ended a couple of weeks ago, and our playerbase seems to be at its peek during those times. Students are enrolling back into schoool, others are going back to work, and the rest of us are getting back to our lives.
Thats just my two 'sids.
Hell I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy. But here is what I'm doing. I'm still playing, playing a lot actually.
I'm actually trying to start something big. At least in my mind. Will it change the world? I don't know. It's possible. Actually if it all works out it might change Arm.2.
But that's because I take to heart what has been said. And that is that players are going to determine a big part of what happens with Arm.2. What the world is like, who is in charge, those things matter to me. I guess it has motivated me to do more than I normally do. Whether what I'm working on works out in the end or not, I don't know, but I'm going to try.
Why you ask? Cause it's freaking fun. Take your break from Arm. When you come back the world will be mine! Fools!
My character is creating a shit load.
Am I saddened? No. Fuck that.
I don't really care if stuff I'm creating gets destroyed. Maybe it even won't? Maybe some stuff will carry on into Arm 2. Or maybe nothing will. I don't really care!
I don't see why people aren't playing. This is your last chance to have any impact on the world as it is. You'd think more people would be playing more often, trying to milk Armageddon for all it's worth.
So quit being wusses and keep playing.
Oh, I'm creating all sorts of things. I'm still playing regularly.
There's another reason you should be playing even more now than before:
Most likely, you can talk about a lot of the stuff your character did after June 1st. If nothing else, that's a VERY cool reason to play a great character. Memorable may be memorable to those of us that played, maybe not so much for those that will play Arm 2, but that doesn't matter--maybe your character will do something outrageous that we'll all be laughing at ourselves that may not "echo" in history, but us players will know...anyway.
My excuse is Chinese New Year season... it's hell on my schedule. Holiday season doesn't really end till after Feb.
First of all, I'll say I had a long lived character earlier that happened to get into -the midst of things regarding the end-. Honestly, it was fun, but I'm having alot more fun in a far simpler role. it's not all it's cut out to be -yet-. but I am drawn on by the fact that things are going to be picking up. Personally I think it -sucks- that people are not playing currently because of the end coming.
5 months is more time than you need to atleast get comfortable with a role. And in my view now is the time to get ready for big things, since turbulent times coming can pave way for your character to gain power, if only briefly.
Shit I have roles for two in the south still if people are having that much trouble looking into something to fill.
I noticed the drop in the number of unique logins each week and also noticed that the peak numbers seem to be down.
While I can understand the desire to take a break until the new game comes out, the suggestion that there's no creating going on is plainly false. There is plenty happening, and plenty of time to accomplish things. It may even be more than 5 months for all we know (Not to sounds like a pessimist; I have every faith in our Staff, but I wouldn't be shocked if they took a little more time than expected to perfect their creation).
As for brand new players - if we're seeing fewer of those, it's probably because some may decide to wait for the new version. Plus, if they've visited the discussion board, almost all the Armageddon talk is about the new game. That's only natural, but it may leave the impression that we're all just waiting for the next version. Maybe that's not so far off the mark, but there are plots unfolding in-game and cool things happening.
I was taking a break, okay? I'm coming back now.
Yeah, get your ass back in.
I, for one, haven't played more than 5 hours in the last month
or so with my newest character, and my reasons...
(1) I played continuously, far more than I'd care to admit to any
non-mudder (yo whats new there?) on my last main character
from about November '05 to August '06. I'm in my third year
of law school and I can't really do that stuff anymore. I doubt
the 'Reborn' thing affected my addiction to crackageddon.
(2) Armageddon, when you get into the nitty gritty about groups
and so forth, all have this 'nothing is what it seems' vibe to it.
Anybody worth anything is self-benefitting when it comes down
to it, and then you learn the special things about Arm, which is
neat, but I'm kind of over it now. I've seen enough with my
characters that it killed the mystique a bit, and its hard to run
back to a naive character again. The redundancy, plus the "hey
I know what really is true here... or there" kinda turned me off
for the moment.
Personally, I'm looking forwards to 2.Arm. I won't be able to
play as much as I did with my last character (ie. 35 days playing
time on her in like what, 9 months?) but I have a lot of faith in
the staff's ability to make something awesome with a completely
fresh slate, knowing all they know about how 1.Arm works. Plus,
I want to be a little naive again.
- Ktavialt
Well, I have an interesting little story that definitely affected how I perceive the game and how much I really wanted to play. I have a runner and he was in a local establishment. The runner started up a friendly enough conversation and then suddenly it was morning. One of the character mentioned that it was time for a Bynner to be training. Rightly so, however the opportunity to RP with other characters is MUCH BETTER than heading to a place where you probably wont find another player character in. Regardless, I begrudgingly headed back to the Byn only to discover much to my shockingly accurately belief in what I would find but a Byn area devoid of players! Wow! Fun stuff! So instead of heading back to that establishment and starting some type of problem with the others I had my character log off. That was the last time I played my character until today (about two weeks).
The game just doesnt have the "synergy" to sustain a bunch of clans. I think I will retire my character and try and play where there are others because I dont log in to solo RP. If that doesnt work I may just wait until the game is in version 2 and give it a go.
Quote from: "Arillion"Well, I have an interesting little story that definitely affected how I perceive the game and how much I really wanted to play. I have a runner and he was in a local establishment. The runner started up a friendly enough conversation and then suddenly it was morning. One of the character mentioned that it was time for a Bynner to be training. Rightly so, however the opportunity to RP with other characters is MUCH BETTER than heading to a place where you probably wont find another player character in. Regardless, I begrudgingly headed back to the Byn only to discover much to my shockingly accurately belief in what I would find but a Byn area devoid of players! Wow! Fun stuff! So instead of heading back to that establishment and starting some type of problem with the others I had my character log off. That was the last time I played my character until today (about two weeks).
The game just doesnt have the "synergy" to sustain a bunch of clans. I think I will retire my character and try and play where there are others because I dont log in to solo RP. If that doesnt work I may just wait until the game is in version 2 and give it a go.
That's a problem of clan schedules (some clans have those, many don't), not of the game.
You could either reitre, like you said, or just be a deserter and leave the Byn - could be a lot of fun that way.
Since this thread seems to have taken a turn towards confession, I might as well chime in and admit that I havn't played my character for more than 5 min. in the last 3 or 4 months...it's just one of those times where your interest slacks and you gotta give yourself a break. True, with the upcoming change to the game, I find myself more interested in starting a new character in Arm 2.0 than starting over again in Arm 1.0.
It's just a fact of life, numbers fluctuate heavily during a game changing event/announcment. I really don't think we're going to see the 40-60 players on during peak time until about the last couple weeks before the game shifts over.
I did not really notice the drop in the numbers. Probably because I was not much on the peak before, but I actually remember less logins from back in time.
What I observe right now, is the drop in the leader PCs. That is something more important I think, then the drop in the playerbase. Without people to drive plots/quests, there will be less of a motivation for the playerbase, which may lead to drop in the numbers.
I am playing in a relatively less crowded area right now, and I do not see the majority of the PCs, but I do see -enough- PCs in my "less crowded area" to call that the arm is still kicking ass. I used to see more than a few major plots and numerous minor plots in the game though, now I only see one major plot and a few mini plots.
That said, if my PC dies (and I hope he does not), I think I won't make another PC till the end but instead play other games or write stories of Armageddon. So I can understand why people leave, that is, if they are leaving.
I'm actually in a yearly Armageddon Rut where I don't feel like playing. So when I do get a kickass Idea, I'll be back in as a full time job at work.
I have helped two or three newbies in game over the last few days...and seen more that were getting help besides. It's been a while since I've seen such an obvious number of new players. I am not sure whether to be encouraged or worried, but either way, I love those guys! I wish I was a new player again.
Also, I don't see the point in recruiting new players right now. It is already complicated enough to explain this game. I don't even want to tackle trying to explain to a newb this game but also that it is going down, why it's going down, why IG weird untypical things are happening, that these are untypical things, what the Armageddon Reborn thread is etc etc ontop of all of the mechanics of the game that will be completely new to them. As well I feel it's kind of ridiculous to be like you've GOT to try Armageddon if you're a gamer. By time they learn the game it'll be going down because I know for me it took at least 6 months for me to -really- understand the code and get a decent feel for the RP expectations.
I don't really see it that way, Bebop.. I started playing near the end of Matrix Online and even tho I knew I was in the beta and the game was going to end and start from scratch in a few weeks, I was so impressed with the way they ended the beta that it made me purchase the game and play it from the beginning again when it started out.
I at least knew the basic commands and what the core of the game was like.. So even if people bring in new players right now, I think it's a great thing because they'll see the world at its most exciting that it'll just make them want to play the new version once it comes out, how great the players are and also how involved the admins are in the gameworld.
New players don't expect to live for 4+ months anyway, in a harsh world, so they won't really care how and if the world ends on their first few months, it's how it ends that'll make them want to stay or not. Beside, they'll enjoy the fact that everyone will be a newbie then.
Quote from: "Bebop"Also, I don't see the point in recruiting new players right now. It is already complicated enough to explain this game. I don't even want to tackle trying to explain to a newb this game but also that it is going down, why it's going down, why IG weird untypical things are happening, that these are untypical things, what the Armageddon Reborn thread is etc etc ontop of all of the mechanics of the game that will be completely new to them. As well I feel it's kind of ridiculous to be like you've GOT to try Armageddon if you're a gamer. By time they learn the game it'll be going down because I know for me it took at least 6 months for me to -really- understand the code and get a decent feel for the RP expectations.
Understanding Armageddon better will probably benefit understanding Arm 2.
The more new people that get into Armageddon, the more new people that may get into Arm 2.
Quote from: "Bebop"Also, I don't see the point in recruiting new players right now. It is already complicated enough to explain this game. I don't even want to tackle trying to explain to a newb this game but also that it is going down, why it's going down, why IG weird untypical things are happening, that these are untypical things, what the Armageddon Reborn thread is etc etc ontop of all of the mechanics of the game that will be completely new to them. As well I feel it's kind of ridiculous to be like you've GOT to try Armageddon if you're a gamer. By time they learn the game it'll be going down because I know for me it took at least 6 months for me to -really- understand the code and get a decent feel for the RP expectations.
The way I see it, if a newbie can just get comfortable learning to emote and RP, they'll be fine taking part in the end times plots. Even better, they'll be in that fresh, wide-eyed period where everything in the game is new and exciting and awesome right when the big plots are going down. Perfect time to get them hooked.
I also think this is a fine time for newbies to get into the game. Yes, it takes some longer than others to learn to handle the code and emoting aspects, but some don't need long at all. There's no reason to turn newbies away for that reason.
I'm more concerned about retaining veteran players, however. Vets are the population from which leaders are generally drawn, tend to be more immediately useful to and involved with other players whether or not they're leading, etc.
I have not read the entirety of this thread, but I wanted to put a comment in here from my perspective...
If you perceive that player numbers are down, one very tangible thing that you, as a player, can do is to choose a public place to idle, and when you see someone else, come up with a reason to interact with them. Say something offhanded, beg for money, insult them, start a brawl. Whatever is appropriate. Give us a cue. Plot and entertainment compel people to stay with the game and log in. This is as much your job as it is ours.
Here's the way it normally works: I see several people online, each in their own private apartments, barracks, or whatever... No one is using the way to contact anyone they might know, no one is walking around, no one is solo RPing... no one is doing anything but idling. And, from my perspective, as someone who is dedicated to your entertainment, this makes it a HELL of a lot harder to involve your characters in anything I might think up or have going on.
This is just my opinion, not necessarily that of the rest of the staff.
I came on to try and play last night (Saturday) (for the first time in awhile). I logged on during peek hours like 9-11 never saw more than 40 people it was more like in the high 30's. There used to be around 70 people on at that time.
Just an observation.
Ever thought that you were part of the problem, Bebop? You haven't been logging in...which meant that numbers were already going down. Others could have noticed that the numbers were down a little bit...and stopped showing up to.
To everyone that bitches about numbers being down, one of the first things you can do to fix it is log in your own damn self and stay logged in as long as you would have without numbers being down or people not being around you much.
Quote from: "Spawnloser"
Ever thought that you were part of the problem, Bebop? You haven't been logging in...which meant that numbers were already going down. Others could have noticed that the numbers were down a little bit...and stopped showing up to.
To everyone that bitches about numbers being down, one of the first things you can do to fix it is log in your own damn self and stay logged in as long as you would have without numbers being down or people not being around you much.
I'm pretty sure people can play the game when they want, not just to serve as a +1 to the player count to fix the problem their "own damn self".
There is no problem to be a part of, spawnloser. The only thing is that numbers are down, and I have to say, "oh well". I don't mind playing with 100 people or with 10. I figure numbers will go up when the playerbase generally wants it to. That can be as late as when Arm2 comes, or later.
...
That said, the best thing we can do is keep ourselves on the front page of TMS, in my opinion.
Actually, the point of the thread was, "Numbers are down, what can we do about it?" which implies a desire to see an increase in the number of people logged in and thus able to interact with.
I figure that people can help the numbers go up by being part of the numbers going up. People do log in, type 'who' and see how many people are logged in...and if they feel there aren't enough people logged in, they quit out. THIS is a problem.
Yes, voting is important, but that only has to do with new players. What do we do about our current players that aren't logging in? Why are they not logging in when they have a limited amount of time to get something done of lasting value so that it may be included in Arm 2.0? These are issues and part of what this thread is about that can't be answered by voting. We want all of our experienced players playing as well as having new blood come in.
I have yet to see a suggestion about it, beside "Raise an army and conquer the Halflings" or.. "I'm having a great time actually and you all suck if you're not currently playing the game" ...
We need an insane amount of RPTs for the last few four months or so.. Else people are not interested in the usual "I just want a normal character that lives is life by the days" plot and they are not gullible enough either to believe that we have the time to do something major unless they are already established characters.
The only hope for newly created characters to be part of something major is if there's already something and someone making something happens.. If all the major players die, then there isn't any new ones and not enough time for new ones to be major players in the game.
So for the last four months, I think we need to see the major plots being revealed to the masses and something insane needs to start happening, so that we have a feeling that if we don't log in we might miss something...
Quote from: "Son of a Gortok"There is no problem to be a part of, spawnloser. The only thing is that numbers are down, and I have to say, "oh well". I don't mind playing with 100 people or with 10. I figure numbers will go up when the playerbase generally wants it to. That can be as late as when Arm2 comes, or later.
...
That said, the best thing we can do is keep ourselves on the front page of TMS, in my opinion.
I have to agree heartily with spawnloser, there IS a problem, and it's a significant one. Having 25% fewer people playing the game has made a big impact on a lot of things. While it's lovely to be willing to play with 100 people or 10 people...10 people isn't enough to get particular things done. For example, take a look around at the contents of the local shops: Less stuff is being sold to them, meaning there is less potentially useful stuff to buy. Look around at the leadership positions in the game: A significant number are vacant. The taverns are much more often empty than they were before, and when there is people in them, it's probably the same three to five people you see in there all the time.
Voting really won't solve the problem, because the players we need right now are the veteran players who've decided not to play for whatever reasons. Veteran players are the ones who take up leadership positions, drive plots, provide stuff for other players to do, OR are able to be the integral players in those plots, the go-getters, the competent minions, etc. New players are great, we need them, but they generally just don't know enough or have the confidence to provide what the game needs right now.
I've been tracking the game's login numbers, as I said before, and I think I'm definitely noticing that weeks in which we have RPTs, the player numbers go up by a fair amount--20 or so unique logins. So that is one suggestion I'd make to other players: Put on some RPTs! Logging in oneself will also help, as well as bugging one's friends to come and play again. Another thing I am doing is trying to spend some time each day around peak play hours just tavern-sitting. I hate to do this if it's just me sitting around idling, but I'm willing to do it a little if it makes the game seem more alive and encourages interaction.
Quote from: "Gimfalisette"Voting really won't solve the problem, because the players we need right now are the veteran players who've decided not to play for whatever reasons. Veteran players are the ones who take up leadership positions, drive plots, provide stuff for other players to do, OR are able to be the integral players in those plots, the go-getters, the competent minions, etc. New players are great, we need them, but they generally just don't know enough or have the confidence to provide what the game needs right now.
I wouldn't discount voting or newbies in this regard. There have been many newbies who have shown a lot of leadership and have been critical in driving roleplay and plots. New blood is very important to this game.
Quote from: "Belenos"I wouldn't discount voting or newbies in this regard. There have been many newbies who have shown a lot of leadership and have been critical in driving roleplay and plots. New blood is very important to this game.
Being technically a newbie myself, I'm certainly not discounting them/us. I am, however, saying that's not all we need right now. While newbies -can- jump into leadership roles and -can- drive roleplay and plots, that's not really the norm. It seems to take a year or two, usually at least, for people who are newer to the game to get to that level of ability/desire.
Because we don't have a "number of new accounts" figure on the game stats page for each week, I also can't correlate that to anything that's happening or not happening in the game in my number tracking. Would be cool to have that so we can see collectively what the results of our efforts are.
But my sense is (from tracking numbers and reading posts and the few players I know OOCly) that, right now, the people who are missing from the game are veteran players. And that's hurting us.
There are several experienced roleplayers who just haven't found or tried Armageddon yet, but could create a solid concept and have a long-lived character who could move into leadership in their first role. I did with my first PC, and so did many other people I know. We need vets, yes, but newbies are the lifeblood of the game.
Quote from: "spawnloser"Ever thought that you were part of the problem, Bebop? You haven't been logging in...which meant that numbers were already going down. Others could have noticed that the numbers were down a little bit...and stopped showing up to.
To everyone that bitches about numbers being down, one of the first things you can do to fix it is log in your own damn self and stay logged in as long as you would have without numbers being down or people not being around you much.
That sounds like a great idea, after all I don't play a
game to have fun. I log my "damn self" in to interact alone. The problem is obviously not various other reasons that are resulting in a loss of players or loss of desire to play. Obviously, the solution is people logging in even if they don't feel like it.
K...
Well we can definitely be sure I don't play for the inviting atmosphere on the GDB either.
Bebop kind of has a point.. I've noticed that the more I read the GDB lately, the less I feel like playing..
Don't read the GDB. I tend to skim through lots these days except staff announcements and topics that look interesting. It's my personal Digg system.
i'm playing more than ever.
also, cocks.
My own observations on how being aware of Arm2's end changed my behavior.
First of all, whenever I create a character that ended up with average stats, read not poor stats, any stat that's just not speckfuckintacilur saddens me. Usually I dont pay all that much attention to them, infact I never paid attention to stats all that much untill I learned of 1.arm ending. But now, I look at those 'average' stats and think just how less of an impact would my character have on the world's ending. Sure stats are not the only thing that would provide influence, by they do help. It's kind of sad that I pay so much attention to them, especially since I remember that I never did before, but it's a fact.
Perhaps that is one of the reasons people choose not to play. Not because they're saddened with the whole concept, but they're waiting to come up with an ingenious character plot that they mean to drive untill the end. A character plot that's perfect in ways of depth, aswell as stats.
I noticed there is less players around lately. I also noticed it is harder for me to run long-term plots, because it's not sure I'll manage to finish them before closing. And honestly, I am not sure what to do to change it. I already spent some time working on things which got "postponed" (which in current situation probably means "are never going to happen"), which is somewhat discouraging.
I know we are still getting a new players, so voting is sure a good thing. I also agree that "leaders" should aim to run more RPTs and more plots to attract current playerbase. But I doubt that leaders alone could change this.
I think the only good idea, however perhaps said in harsh words, is to "not leave Arm yourself". If you want to see more players around you, work on it - be around, start and drive plots etc. Do not sit in Barracks or some tavern idling - not that idling itself is wrong, but if you want to change the current situation, this does not help. Take what the mud offers you now (even if it is "meeting with the same people over and over") and work with what you have.
Nobody else than you yourself is responsible for your own fun. It was like that always, now it is just more visible in day-by-day playing.
Kudos to all players and IMMs who play/work on Arm1. I am meeting the same characters day by day and I know some of these are hard trying to keep things moving, which helps me personally to feed my addiction to the game.
All IMHO, of course.
My suggestion, while probably trite, is to give your character some teeth and start driving plots. If you're confused, join a clan, and even if you aren't a leader start pumping ideas into their heads. Push for clan RPTs just to get players together and interacting. Try harder than ever to get on top.
If you have an idea for plots, and you're missing BODIES for plots, or you want to make sure it happens "before the game ends", consider sending an e-mail to unclanned, for example.
I'm willing to do my part to fill in the gaps if it'll get you guys to play.
Ultimately, I think as long as the Staff hold true to their end of this whole deal, namely, to have a world set up and ready to go July 1st, we'll be alright. Yes, numbers are down, yes, people are mad and so forth and so on, but I don't think that says a thing about our Armageddon fervor. We're just in a sticky situation.
Plug on, and you may discover that the End is really only the Beginning.
Wow, friday night. Barely over 30. Rough stuff.
If there's any plots going on I still think it's too secret... I hope the exciting stuff for the rest of us is coming soon :)
I'm having a hard time finding motivation to play right now, but I'm seriously amped over reborn. :shock: I'm glad the imms are really showing so much concern for their players, I don't really think it's warranted, we'll come back, we always do.
Another problem I noticed lately: lot of plots are started simply because someone met with someone and... something happened. It is indeed much harder to start plots if you are all alone, solo-rping/idling for hours.
What could solve that? I think the same thing I mentioned before: do not give up, keep meeting other people, keep playing. Seriously, it is worth it.
Quote from: "Morfeus"What could solve that? I think the same thing I mentioned before: do not give up, keep meeting other people, keep playing. Seriously, it is worth it.
Plots a plenty are in the works or in the planning stage. It should be an interesting time for all at one time or the other.
Just logged on close to peak hours on a Saturday 28 people. Wow.
I haven't even noticed the drop in people..
You "oh gosh the who count is so low" people are only hurting things.
Don't check who, just play the game. You'll meet people. Get involved with them instead of staring into your ale.
Quote from: "Bebop"Just logged on close to peak hours on a Saturday 28 people. Wow.
Comments like this are not all that useful. For one, one moment in one day does not a trend make. For another, purely snarky, negative comments tend to poison people's opinions. If you want do do something about it, stay in the game and create some activity.
I'm not seeing a slow down. If anything, my area is surprisingly active, considering it's always been real slow.
EDIT: Nevermind just saw the same point brought up on an earlier date.
Quote from: "Belenos"Quote from: "Bebop"Just logged on close to peak hours on a Saturday 28 people. Wow.
Comments like this are not all that useful. For one, one moment in one day does not a trend make. For another, purely snarky, negative comments tend to poison people's opinions. If you want do do something about it, stay in the game and create some activity.
This entire thread is about the low count of players, and I don't see why my observation (which is a simple statement of the truth it wasn't snarky) is being targeted out of the entire thread. And obviously it is a trend or this whole thread wouldn't exist. And I don't think that just logging on to log on is any kind of solution to things. Maybe my post wasn't a solution but it was just an observation.
If this thread turns the irrevocable corner to a back and forth bicker fest, I will lock it.
Honestly, and I'm speaking from the heart here. If you don't want to actually interact with people...don't freaking log in. There is nothing more annoying or wasteful of my limited time, than to go somewhere, meet someone and sit there for 5 minutes between replies.
I don't care if you play right now, because if you aren't into it, then you shouldn't be in it. It's annoying to have someone play who doesn't care if they are there or not.
Disclaimer: We all have lives, and if you occasionally are in a situation like the one above where you can't answer right away I understand and don't blame you. I have two kids myself.
But I guess all I really want to say is, if you don't want to be here right now. That's fine, I just hope that when Arm 2.0 opens you will come back to try it out. That' the important thing. I'll be there and waiting to see you.
As I said previously, I've been tracking the week-to-week account logins and new character applications, and there has undeniably been an approximate 30% drop in unique logins per week and 50% drop in applications.
This thread is, however, not for pointing fingers at any one player or the imms or anyone else.
What it IS for is positive, active brainstorming about what -we- (the players) can do to encourage people to stay in the game or come back to the game. It is also for any suggestions we might make to the imms about how they can help us in that goal at this time.
Along with my numbers, I have been tracking the RPTs run by players and how those affect logins. I believe there is a strong correlation between RPTs and higher login numbers, with logins jumping from about 230 in weeks with no RPTs to in the 250 range in weeks with RPTs.
So, to the players who are able to do this, I would strongly suggest: Throw RPTs.
To other players, I would suggest things like: Attend RPTs. Tell your friends about RPTs. Instead of mutually bemoaning lower numbers or the end of 1.ARM, ask your friends who aren't playing right now to get back in the game. Devote a portion of your time to tavern-sitting. Meet characters you haven't met before and make their time fun. Go out of your way to help noobs if it is at all conceivably IC for your character to do so.
That is all for now...time for me to run off and plan some RPTs :)
When I first started playing, seeing 30 players on the who c was a cool thing.
We got spoiled on 60-70 peaks, though of course the more the merrier.
My point? Plenty of fun things can still happen with only 30 players online.
Have fun, be active, involve other people, and the numbers will take care of themselves.
Quote from: "Djarjak"If this thread turns the irrevocable corner to a back and forth bicker fest, I will lock it.
I don't see what the problem with a thread like this is honestly, it's a place for people to drop steam, get off their gripes, and be consoled by the imms, you lock it, then it will carry somewhere else. What are you going to do? Continue the beatings until the moral improves? KMFDM *snickers*
Quote from: "LiquidShell"What are you going to do? Continue the beatings until the moral improves? KMFDM *snickers*
FREE YOUR HATE!
-ahem-
Seriously, though, Djarjak has a point. Having extablished players going around bitching about how noone's logging in (which is indeed what some people are doing), does NOT help. Come up with ideas to help get people coming back. Bitching about how noone's around is unlikely to accomplish this goal, and may actually prevent it, if you think about it.
On a lighter and more positive note, the less players logged in, the less for the admins to do and the more time it gives them to code us up a brand new Arm2.0 faster for all of us to get back in. :lol:
I fully plan on having a blast during the "final days" Armageddon MUD before the second incarnation rises from its ashes. Nonetheless, I find it hard to log in for more than an hour or two on my work days. Keep in mind that other people may be facing their own real-life commitments as winter begins to loosen its hold in some regions of the world. Oh yeah, there's Valentine's Day too.
I've been brainstorming on ideas to get people back in on the action until The Big Day, but honestly, I've come up with little; if people want to play, they will. If they don't, they won't. In the end, it's just a game, albeit a damned good one, and there's no point in people playing if they aren't having fun.
Just keep in mind that big things will happen, and you'll want to be there for it. Also, this is an excellent time to try some of those dangerous or otherwise crazy character concepts you never dared to before.
- Ghardoan
Immortals
---------
There are 0 visible Immortals currently in the world.
There are 59 players currently in the world, other than yourself.
Tonight, around 10 CST.
I don't think we have any problems.
Yep, I was there for that...
At 1 am EST on a monday morning:
There are 0 visible Immortals currently in the world.
There are 40 players currently in the world, other than yourself.
We're doing just fine.
Granted, this -was- the advertised Tuluki kank hopping event in which several prominent nobles got down and dirty with the...oh. Wait, too IC!
(I keed.)
Few things you can do to help the numbers:
-Post flyers at the local game stores, schools, special-interests sci-fi/fantasy clubs, library, etc.
-Post reviews on various mud lists
-Recruit your friends
I was in a slump for a while. A bad one. I think I logged in for maybe an hour during January. A lot of it was my personal circumstances (the holidays were busy, as was my job after the new year), but I should probably admit the coming game change deadline was a little demotivating as well. I'm used to playing very long-lived characters and a few months seems like an alarmingly short amount of time.
I decided I don't want to end my time playing Arm 1 with a quiet sigh, though. I've set a new goal: to make the next 3 months or so the best I've ever had in this game and to put enough energy into my character so as to be memorable without having to be long-lived.
I'm back, baby! CRACKAGEDDON CRACKAGEDDON CRACKAGEDDON!!!
QuoteTonight, around 10 CST.
I don't think we have any problems.
In all fairness, that was a Sunday night. Sunday nights have always had more players than any other time of the week. It doesn't reflect the average peak numbers.
To say that we haven't lost a sizeable chunk of players is a lie. I'm seeing around 40 at peak most days, with the occasional 50ish and the occasional 30ish. It's not the end of the world (pun intended) but I find it very noticeable and something we should try to combat. It would suck if 2/3rd of our playerbase is gone by the last month before Big Bang.
One thing I personally would suggest is temporary closing of clans that are never really populated and aren't involved in any plots. There are some clans that I've never seen more than 2-3 players in, and usually 0, and we still get people who end up joining those clans just because they haven't been in it before and want to try it out. I think it would be better to simply make them virtual and keep people gathered instead of spread out. I would much prefer 10 clans with 5 players in each to 20 clans where 10 of them have one lonely PC.
I'm normally not a fan of telling people how or what to play, but I also think we should discourage too much of the "solitary explorer" syndrome. I have heard a lot of people saying
'well, since the current game is gonna end anyway, I'm apping a rogue whiran so I can explore the world' and similar things. This type of solo character adds next to nothing to the game and I think it should be kept to a minimum now that we're seeing continually decreasing numbers.
We should do what we can to keep the remaining players as gathered as possible without making things too restricted.
Hymwen is correct, a single night of higher numbers at peak time does not mean numbers are not down overall. Our current four-week average number of unique logins is still just 251, down from 324 prior to the announcement of the game.
Now, this past week, we did have 264 unique logins and 75 character applications, which is a marked increase over the two weeks prior. And I will point out that this past week we did really well in the voting on TMS--we were in the top 10. So it's possible that those things are related, in which case I say, VOTE. (Can't hurt, anyways.)
Higher character apps may just mean more dead people.
Regular voting aside, I don't think it's fair to embark on a campaign to bring in alot of new players at this late stage of the game. Armageddon isn't your average DnD campaign. It takes alot of time, effort, and commitment to properly enjoy it.
I would, personally, feel dishonest about bringing people into that kind of commitment with such little time left and being unsure about the future quality of the game. Once the new game is up and kicking ass I'll be the first one to write a review, tell my friends, and wear a kank-suit on the street corner. For now, though, a decrease in playerbase can only be expected.
-WP
(http://www.magicmakers.com/animal%20jpg/ant%20costumes.jpg)
I couldn't resist.
Holy god... I need that.
Soooooo fucking sexy....
-WP
I have figured it out. Arm style.
More to come, -if- I get to leave work.
Quote from: "WarriorPoet"Once the new game is up and kicking ass I'll be the first one to write a review, tell my friends, and wear a kank-suit on the street corner. For now, though, a decrease in playerbase can only be expected.
-WP
I say we hold WP to this. He's over 18. Looks like someone just got themselves into a verbal...err written contract. First thing I'm going to do is threaten to wear a kank suit, looks like in order to comply with this accord to be first WP is going to have to get crackin'.
I agree. Bepop, start threatening. Just make sure to state what you're going to do in as much detail as possible. Go ahead.
Quote from: "Folker"I agree. Bepop, start threatening. Just make sure to state what you're going to do in as much detail as possible. Go ahead.
Shh, 2.Arm isn't up yet.
Threaten anyway, just do it in written form.
Step 1: Continue to play
Step 2: Do stuff. Too many people do nothing lately
Step 3: Create characters that have reason and opportunity to interact with a lot of others
Step 4: Vote and advertise
Another thing that I bet would help is to put an end to the apparently common opinion of "why bother making any improvements to the current game when it'll all change in a few months anyway?". I find it discouraging when I see it, and if I was on the verge of quitting but considering staying, it might be what tipped the scale in the wrong direction for me.
The version shift isn't happening tomorrow. If there's something wrong with the current code or other parts of the game, it should still be addressed and hopefully worked on, since if we don't do it, we still have to endure those shortcomings for a long time. I was guilty of having the "why bother now, might as well suggest it for the next version" mentality at first, until I realized that it made even myself less interested in the game.
It's not about building stuff, for me, it's about being unable to create a character with any sort of legacy. That's always been one of my main drives to login, to create a character people will remember. I find it highly likely that the upcoming events, which I know nothing about but assume will be substantial, will overshadow any one character.
And even if I created the character that saved the world the legacy would be short lived because people are going to be fucking stoked to get into the new game.
So I'm just biding my time until the new game pops up before I'm going to invest much. I might login to hunt or interact a little now and then but that's about it, really.
Congratulations, you made me feel guilty even though my partial playing inactivity began way before Arm2's announcement.
So... I am trying to play at least a bit more regularly now.
Ok, I tried signing up for another mud and I emoted kidnapping them and dragging them to Armageddon, but they said that my angelic aura couldn't drag characters to hell. Specially since kidnapping wasn't coded.
Fuck.