Tuluk is a beautifully written area with amazing zones that are racially and economically diverse.
I think that if it were condensed, though, the playerbase would benefit from a number of factors, one of which being increased interaction with players of different races/backgrounds/economic standings.
Proposed changes that I'd like to see are:
1) Combining the bardic circle within the Red Sun Commons. The Commons atm are bland and empty, currently. I feel that placing the Circle within the commons can help diversify the commons even more by providing a more stark contrast between citizens both socially and economically. One might begin to see a true difference in terms of race/social standing, etc.
2) This has nothing really to do with condensing Tuluk, but I think it's a good idea regardless, so nwah!
I've been mulling over a way for staff to offer huts within Freil's as places for pc's to actually set up their own shops and run small businesses. I think this would really help promote growth in Tuluk both in terms of independant business owners as well as pc's willing to offer their services to the masses.
This would, of course, only be allowed to players who have become well-known as contractors in Tuluk. The player would also have to be deemed very responsible and trustworthy by staff in order to be given the go-ahead to purchase a small hut. It might prove difficult, but I can really see the possibilities grow for independant merchants, loggers, or even hunters who deal in raw goods.
Feel free to add your own ideas!
I like these ideas.
Also, I think that the tribal market should be moved and combined with Freil's. It would make Freil's a bit larger and I think that it would make more sense for them to be together. In addition, more elf players would probably make use of the Anakore's Burrow if it was closer to the rest of the city. As it is, I've had to drag elves and tribal pcs with me to those places. It seems alot of people don't want to spend much time there with there pcs since it's so far from the center of things. Then in Freil's, you would have a busier marketplace that is a mix of tribals, merchant houses and others. On one side of Freil's, you'd have The Firestorm and on the other, The Anakore's Burrow.
Combining these would create more interaction I think and possible conflict between those that would frequent the mostly elven tavern and those that would frequent the Firestorm on the other side.
Quote from: "Jakahri"I've been mulling over a way for staff to offer huts within Freil's as places for pc's to actually set up their own shops and run small businesses. I think this would really help promote growth in Tuluk both in terms of independant business owners as well as pc's willing to offer their services to the masses.
While you are absolutely correct that this would facilitate some indy
merchant growth and be kinda cool, I think that there would be IC
reasons why it wouldn't happen.
Slipping a heavy bag of coins to faithful lord fancypants, the figure in the
black, steel-grey greatcloak says to faithful lord fancypants, in sirihish:
"Lord Faithful, remember that abomination we revealed to His Radiance?
Salarr's always been a valuable asset to the Ivory and I doubt we need
any more competition in the city."
Ditto the other merchant houses.
- Ktavialt
Tuluk is freaking huge. Condensing it a bit would be a Good Thing.
It has been condensed once that I know of.
I have no problem with the size it currently is myself, leaves room to put things in without having to change the size of the city.
Ya Tuluk used to be fucking enormous. It's smaller now, but I still feel like...I don't know....
I hate walking around in straight lines, through room after room after room of two-room exits. It drives me nuts. It's so un-organic. I really think Tuluk needs a drastic face lift.
And yes, for frick's sake, put poets' circle and the tribal market somewhere more reasonable.
It is a massive city state, it should be big.
Yes it's supposed to be massive, but right now it -feels- like a bunch of empty streets. There needs to be more stuff on those streets.
I don't have a problem with current size of Tuluk. Anyway, are you sure it's really that bigger than Nak? I think this feeling is given by fact most of characters dont walk around the merchants or elementalist quarter much in Nak.
The way nak is built, everything happens in a centralized area. You've got the commoners' quarter and then everything else sort of spiraling out from it, but most everything happens in the middle of the city.
Tuluk on the other hand is more of an elongated shape, with points of common interest running all along its length.
Poet's circle is just in a bad place hands down. Imo, it should be closer to nobles and further away from the city gates. If anything the tribal market and poet's should be swapped. Let the tribals get it first when the city is attacked again. :-)
I'd like to see Poet's combined with red suns commons too, or have poet's take up the northern section of red sun's and move red sun's south. I really find the tribal market fascinating as it's sectioned off but has just about anything you need, including their own tavern. It could either stay where it is or move to sit between red sun's and the warrens, maybe to the south of the tooth.
- HK
I always felt uneasy about the Poets' Circle being so close to the outer reaches of the city. Bards are supposed to be a treasure of the city, but the location of their part of town leaves them wide open to attack. The plains gate is RIGHT THERE. A rampaging bahamet could charge right in and trample half the Circle. Why were they stuck way the hell out on the opposite side of the city from where the majority of the "action" in the city is? And if a noble or a templar wants to go and have tea at the Lucky Ghaati, or to just enjoy what's going on in the Circle, they have to walk pretty much from one side of the city to the other. For a key part of Tuluki culture, they seem to be pretty damn isolated.
Maybe it involves being more subtle and if it were in the center, that is to "brash" for tuluki art?
I like having the Poet's Circle off to the side.
I think the tribal market could be slipped in along with the Red Sun Commons.
I don't want things shrunk, though. It's already, codedly, not as big as it should be, in my opinion. Yes, there are a few stretches of empty space, but that can be fixed by finding an immortal willing to put stuff in and start submitting things.
Well, newbie wise, I found that Tuluk is much more complicated to explore and get used to as a new character, then it is ... any other city really.
How are you going to explain the sudden decision to move Poet's Circle? Will you move it overnight and pretend it never used to sit on the other side of the city? Will you roleplay out the expenses required by the government to undergo such a venture? Will you consider the consequences this type of expenditure creates? What will happen with the emptied circle? Become absorbed by the ruins?
Quote from: "Pantoufle"How are you going to explain the sudden decision to move Poet's Circle? Will you move it overnight and pretend it never used to sit on the other side of the city? Will you roleplay out the expenses required by the government to undergo such a venture? Will you consider the consequences this type of expenditure creates? What will happen with the emptied circle? Become absorbed by the ruins?
We pretend like it always existed there since the begining of time, Duh.
No serious, pretend like it always existed there. It should of been there. This is a correction to the game. A mistake. A bug.
I have to agree that the Poet's Circle should be in the Commons ... a picturesque garden in the midst of the toil and trouble. I absolutely agree.
Don't shrink the City though, damn that.
One of the things we went to great pains to do when originally putting in New Tuluk was to make it not magically appear one day. What we ended up doing was creating a mirror version of the finished product but one in which the structures were still in the process of being built. Over time, the rooms were gradually moved to the finished state.
I feel strongly that slamming something new into place in one piece is extraordinarily jarring to overall play, particularly when people are supposed to pretend that the change has always existed. When I renovated Allanak, this is the philosophy I followed. We coordinated putting the new version in the game with several other events that were linked to a massive earthquake, including the destruction of Mal Krian, and this helped (imo) make the changes feel less like intrusions of game mechanics and more like "Okay, the city had an earthquake, the destruction makes it feel new and changed and there's an IC reason for the creation of new and rebuilt buildings." There again, pieces were gradually updated, rubble removed, etc, over time.
There has been one occasion on which Tuluk was considerably shrunk for the purposes of playability. But for the most part, I would rather see changes like this made in the context of the game reality and done so gradually and well as tied into plotlines. Perhaps the Templars decide to boot the tribal elves out of the city as part of a plotline, and as a result the market is moved to a tent city outside the actual city walls. Perhaps the templarate decides to build a new theater in honor of Muk Utep and gradually that becomes a new center of bardic activity. I think it's certainly harder and slower to do things this way, but it's also less jarring, provides a greater sense of continuity, allows players to influence the course of events, and creates material for plots.
Remember that the new Tuluk was in fact planned and built by the Templarate. Perhaps their city planner was, in fact, not very talented and didn't think things like the location of Poets' Circle through. I'd love to see that dealt with in the game, and I hope a similar discussion takes place on the staff board so we can take advantage of some of these ideas.
I dig.
It seems interesting that there were, in fact, errors to the city planning.
I'd always thought that New Tuluk rose up rather quickly, and it's nice to
see that there were built-in consequences to that.
I'd much rather see Tuluk get a brand new, impressive ampitheatre than any sort of arena or a magickal readjustment of the bardic circle. I think if it was more centrally placed (maybe east of the commons so that it is also close to the noble's quarter) it would be a fantastic addition and give Tuluk even more of a unique feel.
I personally love how the game changes and new additions are added ICly, through player or staff effort. I play mostly in Allanak and you can still see that happening on a regular basis there.
You know the folks that lounge about outside pubs.. why not make them guides or something?
You say to the lanky, red haired youth "Show me to the bank"
fol lanky
<travel>
House Nenyuk bank..
<youth walks off>
Something like this
(http://www.romantheatre.co.uk/rotheatre.jpg)
Tuluk needs an arena/theatre.
Agreed, Maybe.
I think Tuluk does have a sort of theatre atm in the Circle, though I fail to remember what it looks like.
It isn't big enough.
Quote from: "Tuannon"You know the folks that lounge about outside pubs.. why not make them guides or something?
You say to the lanky, red haired youth "Show me to the bank"
fol lanky
<travel>
House Nenyuk bank..
<youth walks off>
Hey, this is a groovy idea! I like this a lot. Having folks take you places for a sid or two...shit, that's a wage for them. Do this.
The theatre in the Poets' Circle is closed for construction, and has been for millions and millions of years. Nobody has an exact date for when it will open.
I like Tuluk the way it is. Makes me feel less trapped when I play a character that can't/won't leave the gates. In fact think Allanak should be more like Tuluk. Tuluk has four taverns and a tea house and two market places and the circle and the commons. It's great. Like I said feels like you can really look around and not feel so trapped.