Since Nenyuk owns all the apartments, and the banks, could they take a month or two fo rent from my bank account incase I forget to log in?
Nyet.
Nenyuk's operations are vast and sprawling, since they rent out a good proportion of all properties (coded and virtual) in Allanak, and handle banking for 2 cities and various outposts and villages. The amount of organization and paperwork this requires is immense and the banking and properties divisions are entirely seperate.
Also, since the computer has not yet been invented on Zalanthas, their money-wiring services are lacking. Sorry.
If you know you're not going to log in for awhile, you can email Vanth and cc the mud (of course) to arrange for a longer rent period.
I think that something like this should be implemented. Since, you are supposed to be in the game world virtually when you are logged out anyway, why not have them take it from your bank account automatically (the automatic withdrawal would be an OOC construct) and ICly you play it as you paid it while your pc was in the game virtually?
The problem is the act of withdrawing money is not an ooc construct.
So what's the problem with setting this up as a "behind the scenes" OOC construct?"
I don't see what the issue is with it really. Before, if you didn't log for a while, you just made good with the Nenyuk pc when you did log in. Losing your apartment because you weren't logged in during the particular time frame to pay is also OOC. In fact, it's suffering an IC consequence for something OOC. That's not right.
Quote from: "jhunter"So what's the problem with setting this up as a "behind the scenes" OOC construct?"
I don't see what the issue is with it really. Before, if you didn't log for a while, you just made good with the Nenyuk pc when you did log in. Losing your apartment because you weren't logged in during the particular time frame to pay is also OOC. In fact, it's suffering an IC consequence for something OOC. That's not right.
I don't see what the problem is either. That said, I could see someone with a billion coins in the bank just never logging in and tying up an apartment for RL months on end. But that could be settled with a cap of some kind. Say up to 1 year. Would be nice to have it as an option.
That said, you could just pay in advance.
Quote from: "jmordetsky"That said, I could see someone with a billion coins in the bank just never logging in and tying up an apartment for RL months on end. But that could be settled with a cap of some kind. Say up to 1 year. Would be nice to have it as an option.
How is this even a problem. If he has that much and doesn't log in for a year, why should he have lost his apartment? He obviously didn't die in the IC world, so he's still paying for his apartment in the IC world, and thus he has that IC apartment.
But yes, I like the idea of them doing this withdrawal mess as well.
Err.. There would be a question as "how does Nenyuk knows I am dead" once they start automatically taking your money from your account. So this is a way for Nenyuk to track who is still alive and kicking. If you still have your apartment, and your account, and not paying and not doing bank stuff, they own your money. If they took your money automatically, then they would keep that apartment occupied and took your money slowly. Thus making less profit.
Makes sense?
My point is that the autowithdrawal isn't supposed to be IC. It's supposed to be an OOC construct to deal with an OOC issue. ICly, you went and paid it virtually. Therefore if you died, then you wouldn't be around virtually to pay your rent either.
Wouldn't it be more efficient to add an option to the rental code?
Have the current rental period and option to renew in advance, and add a rental period of twice the current one, with the option to renew in advance.
So people who only want to rent 10 days at a time can, and people who want to rent 20 days at a time can (or however long the current rental period is, doubled).
My PC should probably rent an apartment IC, he's in the position to and it would benefit him. Why don't I? Because I never know if school/work is going to require a lot of time on my part and the current system is just too limiting. I believe the maximum rental time is 7-10 days, this just seems unreasonably short. I'm sure for a lot of people taking a two week break from the game isn't uncommon when real life stuff takes priority and it's just an OOC pain to have to log back in just to renew your apartment. And it seems like emailing Vanth in advance takes a lot of forethought and is an inconvenience for both player and staff.
Now I'm not one to agree for withdrawing from bank accounts, that sounds like too much effort to handle or to code. But can we at least have a 21 day cap on apartment rentals? I really can't see this tying up apartments IG to a degree that they become unusable because too many people have rented and died.
Honestly I've noticed that most of the apts are actually open. I remember before this system was in place they were usually full all the time. I think alot of people are doing the same as Spyguy here and just not bothering to have one even though their pc would.
Something should be done to minimize this problem of worrying about losing most of the things you own and losing your home ICly because of an OOC issue.
I think extending the maximum rent to a full IC month would be a nice compromise.
That would give people two weeks of breathing space instead of one.
Quote from: "Delirium"I think extending the maximum rent to a full IC month would be a nice compromise.
That would give people two weeks of breathing space instead of one.
I agree, in thinking about this we really don't need to the coded overhead of actually having it deducted from your account if you can rent further out in advance. Why not allow for more then an IC month though? Why put a cap on this at all? Worst case scenario is the same code that wipes out bank account information at death also free's up the apartment. It's not realistic, but it would make it more playable.
I think I can honestly say, that any sort of 'paypal' business with House Nenyuk probably won't be happening, at all. Quite honestly, we expect players to log in, and handle some errands in game. We expect PCs to have to withdraw money, we expect PCs to have to transport that money to and from the bank. We expect PCs to have to RP around payment issues such as rent, and monthly bills.
Apartments will likely never become 100% safe havens which you don't have to log in to pay for. That isn't what they're designed for. Pulling the rent 'time' out to a full IC month is far more likely (and I believe, might even be on the books if it hasn't been done already).
Yeah, "Online Bill Pay" is not too Zalanthan.
I'd be all about extending the max rent time, though.
Should the game cater to the players who play once a month? I think that might be a better question here to consider. Is the game is designed to harm the players who only want to play once a week, or once a month? Certainly - in regards to the Nenyuk Rental System of Housing.
Quote from: "mansa"Should the game cater to the players who play once a month? I think that might be a better question here to consider. Is the game is designed to harm the players who only want to play once a week, or once a month? Certainly - in regards to the Nenyuk Rental System of Housing.
Good point! And you're right, of course. Many game facets serve to only punish players on an OOC level despite that their intent is to invoke realism. Many of these IC necessities are, in actuality, OOC constructs that fail to mimic an in-game reality. In the past, owning an apartment meant paying for it up front and actually owning the property, rather than merely paying rent. This way, players who wish to take a haitus or suddenly cannot login need neither worry about losing their apartment nor troubling the staff with an e-mail.
I'd like to see the facility of owning as well as renting apartments implemented (though naturally owning should be vastly more expensive than renting, but it would be nice if it were still a coded possibility).
Hmm, I don't see why the renting system should cater those who are 'playing once a month' or even prone to taking long breaks. If you're prone to taking breaks from Arm, why rent an apartment in the first place? It would be safer and easier to simply carry your equipment like what the majority of the playerbase does already...I think.
Though, for those who actually have a use for the apartment, giving the option to extend the rent period will do them some good. :wink:
I don't think anyone was saying that it should cater to those that "only play once a month" or are "prone to taking long breaks". For those of us that play pretty consistently sometimes RL issues come up that take you away from the game for a bit. I play pretty consistently but in the last few months there's been alot of RL issues I've had to deal with that kept me from logging in much until the last few weeks.
In those instances, there is already a system in place to take care of it. Its called emailing the staff, and ccing: mud@ginka.armageddon.org, and seeing if you can arrange something.
Quote from: "Tlaloc"...We expect players to log in, and handle some errands in game. We expect PCs to have to withdraw money, we expect PCs to have to transport that money to and from the bank. We expect PCs to have to RP around payment issues such as rent, and monthly bills.
Let's look at other examples:
If you don't log in for a while, it is common knowledge that you
won't be paid in your clan for those missing weeks. If you get paid 250 coins each IC Month, and you haven't logged in at all for that month, you won't get paid. You can consider that your character got virtually paid. That your character got virtually drunk on every Dzeda, and virtually ate every bit of mekillot steak in the compound.
That's fine. Your footlocker remains yours, and may possibly be stolen from. Until the Clan Immortal or your Boss kicks you out for not being active in the clan and taking up room that may be better use for someone else.
I guess what I'm trying to bring up here is that this game requires a certain ammount of commitment of active time in order to receive
any reimbursement from Immortals, in general.
Which is fair in one aspect, and unfair in others.
It's fair because immortals are also volunteers who promote and give benefits to the players who also promote and volunteer in the game. Benefits such as a place to live for your character. Monthly payments for work involved in their clans. Safe Haven for some items that are too heavy to carry around with you at all times. When you put in the time and energy to make your character involved with the world, above and beyond the normal everyday life, you create a more interesting novel that is ArmageddonMUD. And more interesting is the goal of this game.
It's unfair because it is a game, or a hobby, that some people can't commit time anymore because they are growing up and going to College, or in the work force with jobs that can't compete with others. It's unfair because this is a roleplaying world, and some of us don't want to be "MORE INTERESTING", but rather "living in Zalanthas like everybody else." And because our characters are not very smart, or strong, or leaders, or anything besides people trying to survive, we have a harder time continuing our menial lives, because they require us to log in once every three days to renew our rent on our apartment. Life ain't fair in Zalanthas, I tell you.
Quote from: "Tlaloc"Apartments will likely never become 100% safe havens which you don't have to log in to pay for. That isn't what they're designed for. Pulling the rent 'time' out to a full IC month is far more likely (and I believe, might even be on the books if it hasn't been done already).
I have an idea! How about, if you plan on taking an extended leave, and you don't want to bother the immortals, you use the Nenyuk Rent System at the bank? Just rent all your chairs and your bed into the Bank and retreive it back later. It'll just cost you 100 coins per item.
This is why I'd like to see clanned quartermasters, to who you can give a bag full of shit and get a ticket in return. When you give him the ticket back, you get your bag back.
No fuss, no muss. No wasted space.
I think the cap for the amount of time you can rent an apartment should be extended to an IG year. Not, that is to say, that that amount of rent is required. At this point as I understand it, you pay for an IG month, roughly two weeks.
If at the time of renting or afterwards you decide to extend that time, then I think the cap of the IG year should be an option.
Though I think it deserves another thread, mansa you bring up an excellent point about perks, playtime and availability. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it's one which can really be solved.
Actually, the current rent period lasts just 1 RL week.
Quote from: "picklehead"Actually, the current rent period lasts just 1 RL week.
I would LOVE to see the rent time extended to even two weeks. Currently, 1 RL week is rather difficult to keep up (for me). The reason is, Armageddon is NOT the be all and end all in my life, but I still enjoy playing it... I log in every day, but every so often I'll get hit with A HELLACIOUS week.. or, my power will go out for up to two weeks at a time (I'm in the sticks).
You just don't realize how quickly time flies.
Otherwise, I'm against automatic banking. That's just... weird. :P
You don't even need to be gone more than a week for your rent to lapse. You pay your rent, and play for 2 or 3 days in a row. You don't renew your rent because you -just- paid it 2 or 3 days ago. You aren't going to renew your rent every single day, that would be silly. Then something happens, like your dog eating a bad thing causing him to explode which damages your plumbing fixters and floods your apartment with water and dog-bits -- with all that water and goo it isn't safe to play on you computer for days, even if you wanted to! So you don't play for a couple days, a couple turns to 4 or 5, and when you log back in you're rent has lapsed! Now your dog is dead, your carpet is ruined, and some jerk has rented your virtual room out from under you and sold all your stuff. Oh, the humanity!
Being able to rent for a full IC month (two RL weeks) would be good.
Angela Christine
That was a ridiculously good described scene AC. No wonder why I love you, and your posts.
I never liked that dog anyway.