Is it just me or do the weights giving during application seem really screwy?
The usual weights for a human are between 6 and 9 tenstone, right?
And a tenstone = 10 kg, right?
That means that most humans fall between 132 lbs and 198 lbs.
How many 60" tall, petite women do you know that are 132 lbs? How many uber, body builder mercs do you know that only 198 lbs?
Personally, I'm 6' to 6'1" and ~180 lbs. I've got not much in the way of muscle and a little bit of a gut. Yet, if I were to app a 6' tall warrior with massive guns, 8 tenstone would seem about right. 9 tenstone just seems obese, codely speaking. Alternatively speaking, if I app a 5' tall, skin-and-bones little merchant or something, 6 tenstone would seem right codely, and 5 tenstone just too small.
Am I crazy? Well, am I crazy in this regard?
Yes
Interesting. *ponders his mental state*
No.
Damn it! Now I'm really confused. :cry:
Zalanthan humans are lighter than earth humans. And for good reason. Possessing a lot of muscle or fat is neither cheap nor conducive to survival.
A zalanthan warrior would probably be a wiry guy, not massively muscular at all. I wish people would remember that when they wrote their descriptions.
The range of weights doesn't bother me that much, because I figure these people aren't quite the same as Earth humans. Although I don't have a problem with making the range wider either.
What I'd like is if there were more shades of gray, though. I would rather that you had to give your weight in stones, from 60 to 90. As it is now, a Zalanthan human's weight is either 6, 7, 8, or 9 ten-stones. I tried to put in 7.5 ten-stones once and it just set it at 7. You don't have just four heights to choose from, but why only four different weights? I don't know why it bothers me but it does.
I'd like to see the range from 5 to 9 ten-stone.
Especially if you're apping a scrawny, underfed fifteen year-old half-elf.
I'd like to 5-12 for humans. Muls can get to 14 I think. Crazy.
I want 4-12, for my emaciated rinth-rats and morbidly obese Kadians.
Quote from: "Delirium"I'd like to see the range from 5 to 9 ten-stone.
Especially if you're apping a scrawny, underfed fifteen year-old half-elf.
I actually once wished up after getting in game with a new, runty PC, asking if it was possible to have my height and weight lowered beneath the minimum. It was, with the caveat that I wasn't allowed to reroll my stats after the adjust. Having it codedly possible in chargen would be a nice way to save time for everyone, though.
Quote from: "jstorrie"I want 4-12, for my emaciated rinth-rats and morbidly obese Kadians.
Then special app for it. I would say that morbidly obese people and refugees from concentration camps are rare enough that they don't need to be available to every last PC who wants to max out their height and weight.
And anyway, 88 pounds is pushing it. I highly doubt anyone could survive at that weight for an indefinite period of time.
The weight range is fine as it is, though it could indeed use some more fleshing out in between as Flurry mentioned.
Quote from: "EvilRoeSlade"Quote from: "jstorrie"I want 4-12, for my emaciated rinth-rats and morbidly obese Kadians.
Then special app for it. I would say that morbidly obese people and refugees from concentration camps are rare enough that they don't need to be available to every last PC who wants to max out their height and weight.
And anyway, 88 pounds is pushing it. I highly doubt anyone could survive at that weight for an indefinite period of time.
The weight range is fine as it is, though it could indeed use some more fleshing out in between as Flurry mentioned.
No...
I'm barely 50 kg, and I'm normal for my height, just short. someone of my height with 6 ten-stone would be chubby at least. Someone shorter and malnourished like a rinth rat could definitely scratch it down to 4 ten stone, I don't think I was more than that when I was 13 (yes I didn't get enough food). So a for short person that's a bit underweught, like half of zalanthan people would be under the circumstances they live 5 or even 4 ten stone would be perfectly reasonable, exspecially when you consider that there's no inbetween values, someone with 54 kg would also put 5 ten-stone.
It also takes quite some tiome to die from being underweight...
I agree we should extend it just a weensey bit? I don't know, I don't think I'm playing a character who is that unusual, but her weight and height don't make a lot of sense right now, that is, they don't match. She's supposed to be pinched and starved-looking! Poverty!
Also, I am morbidly obese. When I play a character who is just like me I like to be able to choose 15-ten-stone.
<3
I for one welcome a 15 ten stone templar with flapping jowls.
Well, as for me, and this is just my thinking, it's not necessarily the range that is annoying, but the conversion. I just wish there were a place on the app page, where it gave an OOC range for weight. Ex. X ten-stones = X lbs. = X kgs. Off topic? Well, maybe, but I've been thinking about this for a little while now, and figured this was as good a place as any to bring it up.
Hrm.. Weight is relative to gravitational pull. You way far less on the moon and can jump for a mile. Yet here on earth, we are all pretty damn heavy and most of us can't hurdle a 4ft fence.
So, I am sure that the weight scale for Zalanthas is a bit different then ours. Also who is to say that the bodies shapes and muscle weight, bone weight and fat weight are equal to ours. There could be a million different reasons as to why the equation is off.
Say it with me.. "Fantasy!"
Fantasy but based on concepts that we know from our own history and experiences. Characters shake hands in game, they bow to nobles and templars, when the hell did Japan get thrown into the mix of all this? Just a mudding fantasy cliche that was carried over into the game.
And I think the weight has been the way it is for ages, no real scrutinization or review was ever done for it. Half-giants weigh 90 ten-stone and at 12 feet tall that seems pretty reasonable, for a human that is the max height only being able to be 190 pounds is hard to stomach. That's big but all your 'massive' 'immense' 'muscular' characters really aren't like that at all. As far as muscle mass goes. They may be all muscle, but they won't be massive or muscular. 6'4 and 190 is wiry and ripped.
One Stone is a roughly kilogram, or roughly two pounds.
One Ten-Stone is roughly ten kilograms, or roughly twenty pounds.
A cord is a foot and a quarter, or 15 inches, which is about 45 centimeters.
Social custom and physical effects of the world are two different things RM. However when it comes to making a PC, people want to play something that they find appealing or entertaining. Should we ban all the F'me's too? I mean aren't those bulging muscle types the same really?
It's just not something I care all too much about. As long as I can get the basic idea in my head of what an elf/human/dwarf/HG would look like, I just base the rest off what the person describes themselves as.
If we want realisim we'd all play rot-toothed, rasin-skinned stick figures. And that wouldn't be too much fun I don't think.
Quote from: "sarahjc"Hrm.. Weight is relative to gravitational pull. You way far less on the moon and can jump for a mile. Yet here on earth, we are all pretty damn heavy and most of us can't hurdle a 4ft fence.
Say it with me.. "Fantasy!"
weight is relative to gavitational pull, yes, but if wer're talking about kilograms/pounds/ten-stone we're really talking about mass here, not weight. weight would be newton, if you insist on using it all correctly. So zalanthas humans would weigh exactly the same on zalanthas, the moon, on earth or wherever you feel like putting them.
I do agree with the bione mass thing though. their muscles/bones/skin/whatever might just weigh a little more or less than they do for earth humans. Zalanthan humans might have less water inside their body (looking at percentages), thus affecting the weight, then again it could all be the same.
I'm still for changign the scale, expand it a little so your own weight and height are actaully comparable instead of everyone making their own scale by pickign what they think fits closest. This doesn't bother me much though, there's not many times you actually use somebody elses weight for anything.
I dunno. It's possible to live in a primitive desert culture and not be stick-thin, emaciated, horribly wrinkled and ugly. The idea that you will be massively muscled or beefy is pretty ridiculous, though.
Some people that live in conditions similar to Zalanthans (native africans):
(http://www.travel-pictures-gallery.com/pics/africa2_2/afr20018.jpg)
(http://www.leadinglodges.com/pics/bushmen.jpg) (http://www.kilimanjaro.cc/hadzabe2.jpg)
It's not unreasonable to be 50 'stones', but it probably is to be more than 90.
For some pretty damn attractive men and women, go here (http://images.google.com/imghp?hl=en) and enter 'zulu'. Of course, the older you get, the saggier and scrangier you're going to get, but while you're young, adult, and middle-aged, it's perfectly reasonable to be mildly attractive.
Quote from: "Nao"
No...
I'm barely 50 kg, and I'm normal for my height, just short. someone of my height with 6 ten-stone would be chubby at least. Someone shorter and malnourished like a rinth rat could definitely scratch it down to 4 ten stone, I don't think I was more than that when I was 13 (yes I didn't get enough food). So a for short person that's a bit underweught, like half of zalanthan people would be under the circumstances they live 5 or even 4 ten stone would be perfectly reasonable, exspecially when you consider that there's no inbetween values, someone with 54 kg would also put 5 ten-stone.
It also takes quite some tiome to die from being underweight...
I don't know how tall you are and doubt your personal example bears any relevance to this discussion.
However, I was responding to a statement that said the range should be 4-12. I garuntee you that you will not find a height/weight chart that states a five foot tall man (or woman) ought to weigh 88 pounds.
yep, weight and height possibilities for humans in this game are off when compared to western world standards.
So i'll just throw those out the window.
Average human for zalanthas is right in the middle of the IG possibilities.
I'll say it with sarahjc, "Fantasy!"
Larrath:
QuoteOne Stone is a roughly kilogram, or roughly two pounds.
One Ten-Stone is roughly ten kilograms, or roughly twenty pounds.
A cord is a foot and a quarter, or 15 inches, which is about 45 centimeters.
Yeah, That's what I meant, I was just wondering if anybody else though it would be good for something like that to be put on the character creation screen along with some of the other hint things that are listed on there. Mostly I say this just because I see people walking around who's weight and height don't really match much... just for something players, especially the newer ones who aren't exactly familiar with the conversions. Just something tangible to be looking at as youre considering your character's coded size and what not.
I've seen these healthy height/weight charts. Look, I weigh 118 and I'm 5'7". That's below proper weight in the charts, but I'm not doing anything special - this is my natural build. I'd weigh 6 ten stone on Zalanthas.
I think the range should definately be lifted and lowered by one stone either way for humans, who show the most variety of all the races.
It makes very little sense to me that a starving 15 year old girl of 5 feet should weight the same as me.
I hear the gravitational theory, but if that's the case it should be mentioned in the docs. Still, is that something we really want to add to the world? How difficult would it be to make a slight adjustment like this to the code?
I'm in favor, assuming it wouldn't be that difficult a process.
Speaking of conversions:
5 tenstone = 110.23 lbs
6 tenstone = 132.28 lbs
7 tenstone = 154.32 lbs
8 tenstone = 176.37 lbs
9 tenstone = 198.42 lbs
I think 5 tenstone should be added, since a 5'7" earthling female should weigh around 120 lbs to be considered healthy (or so I'm told). So pretty much anyone with "petite" or "diminutive" in there sdesc should fit close enough into the 5 tenstone category, but 6 is really pushing it.
EDITED to add: 5'7" a coincidence. My girlfriend is 5'7". *shrug*
Quote from: "sarahjc"
If we want realisim we'd all play rot-toothed, rasin-skinned stick figures. And that wouldn't be too much fun I don't think.
^can you have this removed for includeing the sdesc of half my chars?^ :roll: Just kidding but that seriously does describe a vast majority of PCs i've made. And they were quite fun, so speak for yourself. Its a "fantasy"
Perhaps we should look at certain help files.
Quote from: "Help Measurement"...
Distance:
Short distances are measured in inches (which bear a strong resemblance to the English inch in real life). An inch was considered to be the length of the Emperor's thumb, but was long since normalised to mean a single unit of distance.
Longer distances use units called cords, which are 15 inches long. Such units as miles and leagues are also commonly used, descended from the Bendune conventions of the nomadic tribesmen, a mile being 5,333 cords, and a league equalling three miles.
Mass:
All masses are measured in stones. Stones are relatively equivalent to a kilogram in real life. Larger masses, in order to avoid using too many counting markers, have become called in five-stone, ten-stone, and hundred- stone. People are typically measured in ten-stone while objects are usually measured in stone.
...
And...
Help Size
The 'size' of a creature is an arbitrary measure of its general height and weight specifications. It has application in the fitting of armour and clothing, and in other instances where mass is important. The following diagram illustrates the size relationship between the various races.
Dwarves ___Elves___
Halflings | | | | Mantises
| | | | | | |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17
|Humans||___|
| & | Gith
| Muls |
+------+
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34
|______________________|
Half-Giants
How about looking at each race:
Dwarves:"Physically, dwarves stand between 52 and 58 inches in height and are nearly as thick across the shoulders as they are tall."
Elves:"Elves stand between around 75 and 96 inches in height and tend to have slim, light frames."
Gith:"Average height is approximately eighty-four inches, with weight similar to that of elves."
Half-Elves:"Tall, between 72 and 78 inches in height, and possessed of deeply etched features, half-elves resemble their elven parents. On the other hand, half-elves are bulkier and somewhat more durable than elves, and so resemble their human parents."
Half-Giants:"Half-giants stand between 120 and 150 inches tall."
Halflings:"Standing between 42 and 50 inches in height, halflings are indeed the smallest of the humanoids."
Mul:"Physically, muls bear most of the bulk of their dwarven parent, being extremely strong and rugged. ... Muls are slightly shorter than humans."
Humans:"Most humans stand between 68 and 78 inches in height..."
Anyways. I think it would be more interesting if the weight code for applications was looked at again. Perhaps an introduction of 'half-stone' markers for weights of characters, to give a .5 difference? I think that a difference of .1 would be too much to worrry about.
Quote from: "EvilRoeSlade"
However, I was responding to a statement that said the range should be 4-12. I garuntee you that you will not find a height/weight chart that states a five foot tall man (or woman) ought to weigh 88 pounds.
Somehow I am not seeing 'rinthers conforming to Earth medical guidelines for healthy BMIs.
Quote from: "RunningMountain"
And I think the weight has been the way it is for ages, no real scrutinization or review was ever done for it. Half-giants weigh 90 ten-stone and at 12 feet tall that seems pretty reasonable, for a human that is the max height only being able to be 190 pounds is hard to stomach. That's big but all your 'massive' 'immense' 'muscular' characters really aren't like that at all. As far as muscle mass goes. They may be all muscle, but they won't be massive or muscular. 6'4 and 190 is wiry and ripped.
On the other hand, 'massive', 'immense', etc. are relative terms.
Familiar with Peacocks?
They look pretty big, but they aren't heavy.
Mutants, sheesh.
Quote from: "Maybe42or54"Familiar with Peacocks?
They look pretty big, but they aren't heavy.
Mutants, sheesh.
What are you doing touching and picking up Peacocks?
It was feathered?
Quote from: "LauraMars"I agree we should extend it just a weensey bit? I don't know, I don't think I'm playing a character who is that unusual, but her weight and height don't make a lot of sense right now, that is, they don't match. She's supposed to be pinched and starved-looking! Poverty!
Also, I am morbidly obese. When I play a character who is just like me I like to be able to choose 15-ten-stone.
<3
Laura, I do like your attempts of trying to stop me from liking you. Your morbidly obese? nice try. :) Remember I have seen your pic, and judging, by your face you look healthy, and on the fit side of average to me.