Armageddon General Discussion Board

I thought this would be an interesting thing to bring up. What would tatlum be like, on earth? I've set a few options but by all means, if you have better ideas and info, post!

I'd say a language taken from a german tribe back when it was all tribes.

Ebonics.

The flaming-eyed, gargantuan templar says to you, in tatlum:
"Drop them traveller's boots off yo' ass boy, 'fore I blast you motherfucker!"

definitely latin, since knowing the language meant you were educated and refined. tatlum has the exact same description in the docs, a classical/traditional language of the schooled.

Quote from: "Tamarin"The flaming-eyed, gargantuan templar says to you, in tatlum:
"Drop them traveller's boots off yo' ass boy, 'fore I blast you motherfucker!"

Damn bitch, you stupid fly. Let me pull up to your bumper and smack that monkey!

But not necessarily any of those three, since it is in both city-states for any non-templar to speak Tatlum. I get the impression that even a noble would catch shit for speaking a word of this, regardless of how refined or educated they were.

Pig Latin.

Also:

QuoteThe dark, dark-haired dark-eyed templar shouts, in tatlum:
  "By the power of the Highlord, pity 'da fool!"

Or something.

I always imagine Tatlum is far more advanced language then Sirihish. Probably it lost many words used in daily life, but I guess it is still the most advanced language in grammar and litreture on Zalanthas.

So, I guess an example of the tatlum on earth is not something ancient because today's languages are far advanced and rich.

Maybe a closer example for such a language could be .. "Ottoman language." Ottomon Empire created a language in combination of turkish, persian and arabic. Only palace dwellers and artists working for higher class(Divan Poets) knew that language. So, Ottoman language improved greatly in artistic sense during extremely rich periods of the empire. A normal turkish, arabic or persian speaker can understand not much but a few words. Maybe that language is a better example.

I'd have to say Sanskrit.  Originally the common language of parts of ancient northern India it eventually splintered off into regional dialects like Hindi, Bengali, Nepali, etc.  The thing that makes it like Tatlum though is that afterwards Sanskrit was still learned and memorized by the Brahmin (the priest caste of Hindu society).  I doubt anyone would have gotten killed for learning Sanskrit who wasn't a Brahmin but because of the way the caste system was designed you probably had about as much chance of that as any commoner on Arm has to learn Tatlum.

How could I have forgotten Sanskrit in the poll? Very good idea. Isn't Sanskrit the oldest language that is written? Dead Sea Scrolls type deal?

Quote from: "Yang"How could I have forgotten Sanskrit in the poll? Very good idea. Isn't Sanskrit the oldest language that is written? Dead Sea Scrolls type deal?

My knowledge is definitely incomplete on the topic.  I don't think it claims to be the oldest language ever written down but we do know that Vedic Sanskrit (the most archaic form we have) is one of the oldest Indo-European languages dating from around 2000 BCE.  It's related to Latin, Persian and several other cultures that had influxes of Indo-Aryan populations.

It's pretty much a dead tongue now, but is often learned by Brahmin as a second language for ritual usage.  Hence it's sort of like Tatlum in a way, if you consider templars the priests of Armageddon soceity.

And now you know...sorta.

We don't know what the oldest language is. Linguists would probably tell you about "Indo-European," which is a construct formed by looking at similarities in the oldest languages we know about and comparing them. Very interesting stuff.

Anyway, the help files say that Mirukkim has striking similarities with languages that predate even Tatlum, so we can rule out Tatlum being any sort of prototypical human language.

Latin I'd personally rule out, since it was only the language of the truly educated during the Rennesaince. During time periods that more closely resemble Zalanthas, it was a vulgate tongue.

I'll go with Hebrew as a possibility, since in more ancient times Aramaic was the common spoken language of the Jewish people who spoke it at all, and Hebrew was strictly a religious tongue.

Of course, I don't know of any languages that were ever "secret, lest ye face death," so this is all silly conjecture.

Tatlum is not the father language to many different languages.  So Latin does not fit.  

I think hebrew is a very good example of how I view Tatlum.  An extremely ancient language that outdates basically any language I know about, it has a unique set of symbols used for writing, and is used by religious scholars to this date.

Quote from: "Cale_Knight"We don't know what the oldest language is. Linguists would probably tell you about "Indo-European," which is a construct formed by looking at similarities in the oldest languages we know about and comparing them. Very interesting stuff.

Not all languages are Indo-European languages.  Which means that if there ever was a single proto-language, the ur-language from which all others descended, then it predates Indo-European.

[tangent="Linguistics and Europe"]
I've always wondered about the Basque-related languages of Europe, which are believed to date back to before the Indo-European invasion.  I'm pretty curious about them in general, just on the general principle that these languages probably belonged to a people who were wiped-out/assimilated by the Indo-European invasion.

Recent data shoes that the Celtic Welsh and Irish are genetically related to the Basque, though their language is Indo-European.  This argues for assimilation, at least in that one case.
[/tangent]

I would argue  for

1) "Church Latin," the Latin dialect spoken by the Catholic Church through the Middle Ages, and to a certain extent still used today,

2) Sanskrit, because it is very ancient, used in ritual, and maintains an aura of authority

or

3) High Javanese, which is (I believe) spoken only by high-status members of the traditional Javanese ruling class.  Javanese is a language with four registers that are, as far as I know, not mutually intelligible, or not entirely so.

Morrolan

Quote from: "Morrolan"Not all languages are Indo-European languages.  Which means that if there ever was a single proto-language, the ur-language from which all others descended, then it predates Indo-European.

This is true. There are what, three major proto-language groups that have been identified? I'm an english major and not a linguist, so my information on the subject is admittedly thin. I was more using Indo-European as an example of what Tatlum is not, since the help files specifically say there are older human tongues.

Ah.  Gotcha.  Sorry 'bout that.

I'm not sure about the number of proto-language groups either.  I'll ask my neighbor, the closet-linguist.

Morrolan

Egyptian, Greek, and Sumerian might fit, depending on how Tatlum is written.  If it's a more symbolic language, hieroglyphics might be appropriate.  More of an alphabet, then Greek.  More cuneiform, then Sumerian.

Quote from: "JohnGalt"Tatlum is not the father language to many different languages.  So Latin does not fit.  

I think hebrew is a very good example of how I view Tatlum.  An extremely ancient language that outdates basically any language I know about, it has a unique set of symbols used for writing, and is used by religious scholars to this date.

Seconded. Plus Tatlum is special because it's a mystic language. You could draw paralells to hebrew and the kaballah.

Though egyption would probably work as well...I don't know enough about Aramaic to really say...

English.
Let me explain.
Tatlum is described in the helpfiles as the oldest human language. I've always assumed that it was widely spoken at one point in Zalanthan history. Now, we all know that Zalanthas wasn't always a blasted hellscape. Runaway magicks made it that way, hence the name Armageddon.
I've always imagined that Armageddon in its current incarnation was a traditional, Tolkienesque fantasy setting after about three thousand years of heat, pain, and mutation. I've always figured that Tatlum was once called "Common", back when everyone drank potions and wore full platemail and killed each other with vorpal swords +4.
Then the elements got warped, and the hobbits started eating people, and the elves weren't playing nice anymore, and somebody made a mul. Metal became scarce, the Dragon pwned some n00bs, and Zalanthas (and its languages) become progressively more exotic and Eastern.
So, since I view ancient times as dull, bland Tolkien-drivel, I therefore view the ancient language of Tatlum as dull, bland, everyday English.
That's just how I look at it, of course. Though I do kind of like the Hebrew idea, too.

Quote from: "FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit"Tatlum is described in the helpfiles as the oldest human language.

Tatlum is described as the oldest known human language. The Mirukkim helpfile says that there are older ones.

zalanthas is earth in a million years.

Quote from: "Manhattan"zalanthas is earth in a million years.

Darn, all that science and going to the space. We still went back to wearing armor, using swords and riding animals.

Quote from: "SewerRat_inTheOpen"

Quote from: "Manhattan"zalanthas is earth in a million years.

Darn, all that science and going to the space. We still went back to wearing armor, using swords and riding animals.

This is what you get for filling up your SUV one too many times.   :shock:

Orcish.

Quote from: "Manhattan"zalanthas is earth in a million years.

News at 10: A new jersey man contacted Fox 5 news today with claims he had invented a new form a meditation he called 'defiling' which allowed to draw life from plants and small animals and use them to accomplish strange feats. Sound crazy? Well thats what Fox's John Gibson said before he went to investigate, and what he found was more then crazy........*FZAP*