Armageddon General Discussion Board

I have spent a bit of time thinking about the problem of raiding/kidnapping, and I came up with an idea that I think could be possible.

My solution is this: allowing an argument for the Barrier skill for all characters.  This will attempt to create a psionic barrier on the target character that can be breached by the victim or anyone else that tried to contact the victim character.
Using this ability will be extremely taxing: the stun loss will be double or even triple usual stun cost for barrier, and max stun will be temporarily lowered by 30.  The character using the ability will also be unable to move, and will suffer halved Defense/Offense skills for the duration of the process and a single IC hour afterward, from the strain.
Maybe even a special ldesc, and the victim will be able to tell who is trying to block them.

What this will do is give an advantage to single magickers and to groups of two or more raiders.  A single mundane character will have difficulty using this to great advantage due to the fighting and stun penalties, but groups will be able to catch victims and interrogate them without fear that eight different characters will know all about it before the second emote is through.

I gotta say no.  When psionics start impacting people in a combative way, I think you're edging over into the psionicist's class (not that I've ever played one, so I wouldn't know, exactly).  It just _seems_ mindbenderesque.

No.

But I think we should be able to tie people up and force feed them substances.  Perhaps some kind of psi-inhibiting alcohol or root.

Quote from: "Tamarin"No.

But I think we should be able to tie people up and force feed them substances.  Perhaps some kind of psi-inhibiting alcohol or root.

I actually like this idea.  I'll add it to my idea file.

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While a good thread, please be careful in how much information you divulge here.  I can see this easily straying in the psionicist territory and I'd hate to see this thread get locked up because someone got too gabby or coyly hinted, "How do you know this isn't already in game?" with various ideas proposed here or in any other threads.
-Ashyom

Giving non-psionicists the ability to block out psionic activity doesn't seem like a very good idea to me...  however, I really like the idea of a poison that suppresses psionics, provided that a) it was a rare and difficult to acquire poison and b) the antidote was just as well-known and common as the poison is rare.

Sounds like something a psionicist should be able to do.  I've never gotten one that far so I honestly don't know if they can, but it's well outside of the range of what I think a regular dude should be able to do.

Ahem. Sap?

Sap and bludgeoning weapons oughta do the trick.

Yes, but people wake up.  And if you need to be hijacking someone for an extended period of time, it sucks to constantly have to whap them over the head. Realistically the person would end up with a concussion after a few taps on the head, leading to brain damage and stuff.

Quote from: "Tamarin"Yes, but people wake up.  And if you need to be hijacking someone for an extended period of time, it sucks to constantly have to whap them over the head. Realistically the person would end up with a concussion after a few taps on the head, leading to brain damage and stuff.

 Which would indicate to me... that that sort of thing doesn't occur often on this world..

 If your going to kidnap someone for ransom.. let em scream for help.. just don't let them see where they are.   IF your twiking and wanting your 'target'  not to use the way to make your job easier..    suck it up.

I'm for. Nine out of the ten or so murder scenes I've RP, the target in question "wayed" their friends and as a result I was suspected. Which is sort of silly.

psi Oh my god, so and so is attacking me! help!


Then again, I've expressed my disdain for the way in general in previous threads.

I am for an ability like this, but not this ability.

There was an idea brought up by another player to have "use" command for all weapons just like it happens in "use whip".  So when you want to give a little disturbance to someone, you will just make "use club" on someone, which will break any psionic contact the victim is having and will make it unavaliable to use contact skill for lets say.. 2 minutes?  Some minor stun/hp damage can be added as well.  How does that sound?

I like that, maybe not for two minutes though.

Opposite of what jmordetsky is saying, I actually think the fact that anyone could be Waying anyone else at any time really adds to the suspense and intrigue of Armageddon.
While it'd be nice to have some way of preventing a psionic message from escaping, I'm not sure it should be something anyone could do, and I'm not sure if another psionic skill would be the way of doing it. I mean, would some one use this in their everyday lives, like they might use contact or barrier? Also, I think force-feeding is something that could be roleplayed out and, in neccesary, wished up for, so my favorite so far is the poison.
I mean, come on. It'd certainly be cooler than Loosetongue.

I want to be able to codedly tie people up.  The mudsex possibilities alone would justify it.

Quote from: "Tamarin"I want to be able to codedly tie people up.  The mudsex possibilities alone would justify it.

Seconded. I remember a templar I was playing a while ago would emote "buckles you to a wall with a pair of bone and leather shackles". Then have his giant subdue me.

Apparently shackles don't work without a giant to catalyze the reaction...:D


Anyone, not to derail...but in general. How could you ever RP kidnapping somone if they can just Way their pals. Again, aside from sapping them every 5 to 10 seconds.

Someone suggested a poison once, which blocked telepathy. I thought that was really cool.

Quote from: "JollyGreenGiant"Giving non-psionicists the ability to block out psionic activity doesn't seem like a very good idea to me...  however, I really like the idea of a poison that suppresses psionics, provided that a) it was a rare and difficult to acquire poison and b) the antidote was just as well-known and common as the poison is rare.

If the poison was rare, it would be expensive.  If the poison was expensive, the antidote would be equally expensive (unless the antidote was an every-day food substance or the like).  Law of economics friend.

The point is, I really like the idea of a large variety of poisons that can be used to achieve interesting and unusual effects, but there isn't any need to gimp for the sole reason that they might kill your character.

I think that the poison that suppresses the Way would be an excellent solution. It seems like the less afraid people are that someone is going to contact their twelve warrior friends to come save them, the more likely people are to play out longer and more interesting scenes with their victims. It seems like a shame to have situations like that, with so much awesome RP potential, be rushed...

QuoteAnyone, not to derail...but in general. How could you ever RP kidnapping somone if they can just Way their pals. Again, aside from sapping them every 5 to 10 seconds.

That's just a risk you take when you're kidnapping someone who's telepathic.

There are ways to stop somebody from using their telepathy. If both players demonstrate considerable RP, it should be very much possible. Just think about what must be done in order to use telepathy in Zalanthas and then think about ways that your character may know ICly how to hinder that essential element of another living being.

Quote from: "bloodfromstone"I think that the poison that suppresses the Way would be an excellent solution. It seems like the less afraid people are that someone is going to contact their twelve warrior friends to come save them, the more likely people are to play out longer and more interesting scenes with their victims. It seems like a shame to have situations like that, with so much awesome RP potential, be rushed...

I think if it's a poison that prevents you from using it and others finding your own mind, it would work like a charm. I don't know.. I can see the benefits if someone was still able to find your mind, as well.

The only problem with roleplaying out scenes that suggest not being able to use psionics is exactly that you have to take the time to roleplay it out. There are times secrecy and quickness is important.  :wink:

The poison would be sweeeeeeet. Honestly, the Way makes it damn near impossible to do some really neat things like kidnapping.

AFAIK, if you wouldn't see the target if he/she was in the same room, you won't be able to contact them.
Also AFAIK this is not a bug and it can be used. You must be able to 'see' them to find their minds. So...

Go to a temple and hire a magicker, or rather choose a place that suits your needs to hide the kidnapped. Poison won't be that effective. Everybody has different endurance levels and you wouldn't know when that poison would dissipate from the victim's blood, you wouldn't know even if it was effective. So it would be too expensive to use it too often to ensure safety or it would have the same risks with sapping.

If you are in a dark room, you can contact anyone you like.  They just can't contact you back.

Take them into the desert after you knock them out. That way, they can say they are in the room, but where?
Put them in a tent and beat them up a little more.

QuoteOpposite of what jmordetsky is saying, I actually think the fact that anyone could be Waying anyone else at any time really adds to the suspense and intrigue of Armageddon.
While it'd be nice to have some way of preventing a psionic message from escaping, I'm not sure it should be something anyone could do, and I'm not sure if another psionic skill would be the way of doing it. I mean, would some one use this in their everyday lives, like they might use contact or barrier? Also, I think force-feeding is something that could be roleplayed out and, in neccesary, wished up for, so my favorite so far is the poison.

I agree with this.

I don't care.  I still want to be able to knock someone out and tie them up while they are unconscious.  You never know if someone will play along.  You never know if there is going to be an imm who can answer your wish.  You just never know, and I'd rather know.

Maybe I don't want to have to drag them out into the desert.  Maybe I want to have them gagged and bound in the balcony in the Bard's Barrel.  Maybe I want to have them up on the roofs in Tuluk.  It's easy to say "oh just do this," but coded support would be so much more dynamic.

And you wouldn't need a poison anyway.  You can just use really strong alcohol to make someone pass out.  And if they happen to have a strong drink skill, oh well.  You are fu-ucked!

I don't see why all of these effects to hinder or block psionics during a kidnapping would have to be rare or extremely short duration.  Nor do I see a reason for the cure to be extremely common, or known about at all.

Poisons are at least -somewhat- difficult to get at this time.  When they are -easily- available, there is still the problem of manipulating it into a useable form reliably.  You don't want an amateur screwing it all up after you actually take the time to wander out into the wastes, or pay some of your hard earned money to get it.

As a matter of fact...I think one poison already in game would pretty consistently cause some serious confusion and perhaps affect the skill of psionics, if so desired.

And as for force feeding...what's with all these ideas I've presented in the past suddenly being nice? :P  I asked to be able to 'force feed' someone incapacitated from hunger a long time ago.

I like the idea of force feeding and force drinking.
I like the idea of poisons to incapcitate Psi. And the tieing up.
Just not the psi ability to block other psi things.

What if at a certain number of hp points have been lost, say maybe 40% of ones health gone, the pain would keep most except the most dominantly willed (mind bender) from having the concentration to use the way.  As I see it, if it's enough to mentally stress you till you are knocked out, then pain would be a big distracter.  Keeps people from messaging all their warrior and magicker friends to come save their sorry ass.

I'm thinking that "the way" requires mental concentration, if you're under moderate physical pain I can see that pretty much being hard to do.  Maybe add a "torture" command? Have it take away health slowly, maybe like 5 points each time.  So you could hurt them enough to keep them from waying everybody but control how much and how fast.  No reason to make it more then "you start torturing character" then the rest is just emotes.  That also deals with twinks being full power after being tortured by your character, giving you coded support.

I suggested about a half a year ago that "mindworms" be added into the game as a tiny little creatures that act as parasites, which feed upon psionic energies within a host.

They are inserted into the ear, and they wiggle into the victims head (target must be subdued and have nosave on, or be unconscious/sleeping to do this) and begin draining their victim's stun down to around 15, and keeping it there, making it nearly impossible to use the Way.  

The cures for the parasite can be herbal, magickal, or require some other more clever means of removing the creature.  Anyway, what do you all think about that?  Seems a bit more creepy then just another poison, and seems like a useful tool for *keeping* someone from using the Way long-term.  That way people could be kept prisoner for more than the duration of some poison, and I see potentially interesting other uses which I will leave to all of your imaginations to determine.

*thoughtful pause*
Okay... so WHAT if Jimbob the Ranger contacts everyone and their dog saying that the UberHouse of Doom's got him locked up. Or even the Aide for the Lord UberHouse? Everyone on Zalanthas has their price, and even a so called undying friendship isn't worth more than a year or two's pay.

If I was locked up and needed rescued, I sure wouldn't contact my friends! I'd contact my employer, my greatest nemesis (does she really want someone stealing the joy of killing me personally?) or someone I owed a lot of money to. (Or someone who owes me a lot of money.) Realistically, unless I"m someone important or rich... what can my friends do to save me? And the flip side of that is... if I'm important or rich.. can I be assured that people will want to save me?

It's kindof a cute idea that you contact your buddies and they go tell Lord Templar Fancipants who calls a pair of hg guards and storms off, sword blazing in the righteousness of his King... And maybe that's what your pc can entertain themselves when I've got you locked up in my sekret dungeon of doom. But it's not a very Zalanthan idea, now, is it?

When I started playing, definitely, but that was years ago.  The world has changed since then, and I delight at it, because it's a lot more dangerous. We need to remember that when we're plotting our dirty evil deeds. People just don't care nearly as much as they used to, and if they do... well, that'll evolve out in a few more PC generations.

Something else here... There ARE things to hide your identity completely in game. You have to find them. (Perhaps some could be a bit more accessable, but hey, that's what money is for.) Be creative.

That said. I *DROOL* over the thought of a psionically inhibiting tablet, spice, poison, or other substance. I also drool over the idea of being able to forcefeed said substance to a subdued pc. Though, if you're subdued and someone emotes shoving a tablet down your throat... maybe you should consider not going all Braveheart and spitting it out again. And yeah, your first kneejerk reaction might be to contact everyone. But, that means people's kneejerk reaction in response might be to just go for the kill instead of the kidnap.

Take a moment... have flee typed in, but don't hit return. See what roleplay will get you... Like in KODT (Knights of the Dinner Table) parlay with the gazebo instead of wasting it with your crossbow. ;)

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Proxie

Well.

I do think that the Way is too powerful to be realistic. And yes, we don't really deal with realism in Zalanthas, but still. The poison is a great idea, the more common availability of feature hiding items are a great diea, and add to this, I think, blindfolds and bonding, and the Way will be balanced out.

Right now, as somebody said, you just can't kidnap someone with any sort of degree of success. If you can't see them because you have them tucked in a dark room so that they can not be contacted, that sucks for RP. If you have to keep knocking them out for the same reason, we have the same result of 'sucks for RP'.

Let's find a solution.

Maybe you could somehow beat people, lowering *edit* STUN points like the brawl code. Exactly like the brawl code, in fact, but without the bar-themed echos.

Quote from: "Tamarin"Yes, but people wake up.  And if you need to be hijacking someone for an extended period of time, it sucks to constantly have to whap them over the head. Realistically the person would end up with a concussion after a few taps on the head, leading to brain damage and stuff.

yes, but it would be very realistic to have to keep that noble unconscious so he can't Way to anyone.

Something I used to do with a raider I had (I moved a few slaves from the north to the south way way way back in the day) is the second I caught them they had a quick moment to reach my mind I told them to or die if they didn't reach my mind quickly or pass out trying they died. once they reached my mind I told them to keep a touch on my mind or I would kill them. It seem'd an ic way to know thier mind is occupied on you that way you could do your whole kidnapping scene.

Great idea.
Then you can say "Report!"
And they would say something into your mind.