What is a neat, good, entertaining plot? How do you define it? What are the characteristics that turns an on going event into a plot?
- Number of PCs involved?
- Duration?
- Affect of it on Zalanthas?
- How powerful PCs are involved?
- IMM affect?
- Number of PCs died? heh.
Number of PCs involved.
And it's effect around the local area.
I also would say, the more the magick, the less the fun. But that is me.
- Number of PCs involved? I am not a fan of MAgick in anyway, but 10-15 PCs per side is always fun.
- Duration?
1-4 hours.
- Affect of it on Zalanthas?
Doesn't really matter.
- How powerful PCs are involved?
Some long lived, some middle, some new
- IMM affect?
Yea, and no. Depends on if magick is there.
- Number of PCs died? heh.
Long lived ones, if it wasn't by magick.
:arrow: Secrets
:arrow: Intrigue
:arrow: Betrayal
:arrow: Espionage
:arrow: Corruption
:arrow: Intensity
It doesn't matter who is involved, or how long it lasts. Of course, they tend to become more intense the longer they last.
Who cares...run a plot to have fun.
As in any story, a good plot is one that draws you into the story and makes you want to turn the page wanting to find out what happens next. One that leaves you thinking about how great a story that was afterwards. In all the discussions about setting and characterization, we aften forget how importaint plot is to any good story.
Perfect time for me to step in for a sec.
I'm sure there's many different outlooks on how to have fun while playing the game, but I say the main reason Armageddon is so enjoyable is due to the plots. If your character hasn't been invovled in any plots, I can guarantee you're not having as good a time as you should.
Aside from your questions though, what a plot needs is an ambitious, creative, and intelligent author prepared to take the necessary steps to keep the plot going strong...and watching the actions of people in response will be the reward. The better the person setting up the plot is able to set up the preliminaries, the better the plot, IMO. Also, the more secrets, the better, up to a certain point. Certain plots require people getting killed, which is exciting for certain people...but I don't usually like reverting to killing unless it absolutely helps advance the plot since your taking that person out of all the fun.
Quote from: "Revelations"I'm sure there's many different outlooks on how to have fun while playing the game, but I say the main reason Armageddon is so enjoyable is due to the plots.
Nope. It's mansa. Everyone knows that.
I like smallish, mundane plots, myself.
3-4 PCs are best - too many and you run into spam and following issues.
It's like herding cats! *growl*
A simple plot like "visit Red Storm and drink ale and play cards" or "bring down a carru" or "deliver X to Y" is a vehicle by which we can showcase the world of Zalantahs.
Length of time 3-4 hours seems most reasonable, and using that time-frame extensive traveling always makes the plot seem rushed.
The feeling of not being rushed (which seems lacking in the rpts that I set up recently) is essential to coax the best RP out of the players.
The less magick, the better. It's like seasoning. I woulud rather worry about the sand-spiders climbing into my clothing while sleeping than some magick-using plane-shifting deamon.
Just a small note. I am really sorry we do not have detrailment thread anymore.. especially sorry for Tamarin... heh..
Thanks for answers though. Time to time our PCs have chance to add some.. flavour to some events. This kind of small lists can be helpful.. at least to me. Thank again.
Even though I heart the intrigue and betrayal stuff deeply, there are probably people who love to have just meat and potatoes stuff and whose characters aren't interested in secret assassinations and intrigue...the kinda guys who are more concerned with and will have more fun with mundane stuff like wrasslin' that fool's wagon out of a rut than ordering the elimination of people.
Assassinations and death are not required for a good plot.
Examples:
:arrow: A love affair between a human and a half-elf.
:arrow: A person scorned who wants to get even with the person they are angry at by embarassing that person somehow.
:arrow: Someone hears a curious rumor, and is so intent on finding out the truth that (s)he becomes obsessed with it.
:arrow: Two people or families with an intense rivalry, who constantly go out of their way to be better than the other.
:arrow: An employer who decides to have one or more of his/her employees watched, to make sure that they are actually working and not out doing other stuff.
:arrow: Raiding.
:arrow: Kidnapping (for revenge, extortion, etc.)
Sure, death could be involved in all of these, but it doesn't have to be.
Yeah, especially for raiding. This can be done very well without killing anyone.
Quote from: "Cuusardo"Assassinations and death are not required for a good plot.
Examples:
:arrow: A love affair between a human and a half-elf.
:arrow: A person scorned who wants to get even with the person they are angry at by embarassing that person somehow.
:arrow: Someone hears a curious rumor, and is so intent on finding out the truth that (s)he becomes obsessed with it.
:arrow: Two people or families with an intense rivalry, who constantly go out of their way to be better than the other.
:arrow: An employer who decides to have one or more of his/her employees watched, to make sure that they are actually working and not out doing other stuff.
:arrow: Raiding.
:arrow: Kidnapping (for revenge, extortion, etc.)
Sure, death could be involved in all of these, but it doesn't have to be.
Ya, but with all those cases there would be at least one assassination in the end. :wink:
A good ARMish plot has only one and ONLY one crucial element:
Once you cut it open, Seeker is somewhere at the bottom of it like a eyeless twisting worm in the core of a putrifying ginka fruit.
I will repeat myself.
Quote from: "Cuusardo"Sure, death could be involved in all of these, but it doesn't have to be.
Quote from: "Cuusardo"
:arrow: A love affair between a human and a half-elf.
:arrow: A person scorned who wants to get even with the person they are angry at by embarassing that person somehow.
:arrow: Someone hears a curious rumor, and is so intent on finding out the truth that (s)he becomes obsessed with it.
:arrow: Two people or families with an intense rivalry, who constantly go out of their way to be better than the other.
:arrow: An employer who decides to have one or more of his/her employees watched, to make sure that they are actually working and not out doing other stuff.
:arrow: Raiding.
:arrow: Kidnapping (for revenge, extortion, etc.)
Wow done six out of the seven. :lol:
To me, I think of it in terms like this: If my characters life was made into a book, would anyone want to read it. In my head going from Tuluk to Nak to play cards isn't a plot, it's a task. I love plots that are twisted, that leave you guessing. These often take a long time to develop and affect many PC's.
There should be room for the people involved to make their own choices as well during the RP, so I guess the longer it takes for the plot to finish, the better, since more decisions will be made by players along the way.
Plots? Huh, almost every simple thing can actually form a plot. Even though I'd love to see more large, world-wrecking plots, I think some people tend to overestimate those and it causes them to miss some nice, smaller, minor things happening around.
Let's take a tiny plot where a bodyguard tried to figure out why the hell is his employer meeting with person X. Not to spy on him, or to sell the information. Just to find out, nothing else.
There are plots that take RL weeks and months, involving many people and making cool things happen. But what really, really excites me are those little storylines happening around larger plots. Death is definitely not necessary, but the chance of things going wrong (that's not just death - enslavement, exile, loss of friends/allies... all that) is a nice to spice things up (ie, if the employer in my small example finds out, he might misinterprete the bodyguard's actions as spying).
Kudos to JollyGreenGiant and Larrath, who helped me see such tiny plotlines behind stuff.
I found a site that gives suggestions for over 2000 ideas for different plots, which is interesting to look through. About 2/3 of them wouldn't fit in Zalanthas, but some of them could be altered so that they do.
It's right here (http://www.angelfire.com/nc/tcrpress/plots1.html).
Cool link, thanks for posting.
Wow, HunterKiller, I remember that name when I first got started playing.
Three of my favorites:
99) decides to ignore the summons
193) back from prison with some new vices
194) vows to build God-King a chapel in the woods
Thanks flurry.
Quote from: "Revelations"There should be room for the people involved to make their own choices as well during the RP, so I guess the longer it takes for the plot to finish, the better, since more decisions will be made by players along the way.
True.. otherwise its like watching a train wreck.. from inside the train :)
Some of the best times I ever had were in the byn, so plots don't always mean you're going to have fun.
My favorite plots are those that pit players vs. players and involve a few different clans moving after a mundane goal that rewards players who are intelligent, quick to respond and has no set ending in mind.
An example would be something along the lines of a caravan carrying some valuable product (perhaps a new kind of rare spice, or some metal ore) was rumored to have gotten lost in a storm, stranded and its men killed by creatures of the desert. One of them managed to get away and reach a small village (Red Storm East, Cenyr, etc...)
The rumor gets passed on to the various Merchant Houses, who can then hire independants, the Byn and other entitites to try and recover the remnants of the caravan. What is actually found in the caravan, who finds it and what they must overcome to reach it are all part of the fun. Even finding more information on what it was carrying and why could be made available at remote villages or clues could be found.
This allows a wide variety of classes and skill levels to participate and feel as if they were part of the outcome. It also provides for a lot of interesting encounters and setups for other clans to enter the mix for their own reasons (i.e. raiders, scouts, mercenaries, etc...)
Plots that I really don't care for put players vs. NPC or VNPC forces and deal in highly fantastical enemies/protaganists (i.e. sorcs, magickers, wyverns, dragons, ghosts) and seem to have an intractable schedule in mind (i.e. destruction of a City, invasion of a village, release of a spirit/demon) These plots may trickle down to effect some players, but (IMHO) exclude the bulk of the players from having any meaningful part in the storyline. Because of the severe nature of the entities involved, normal everyday joes don't have much of a chance to showcase their skills and feel as if they contributed.
Those plots don't make me feel like I could win by figuring things out, overhearing conversations or manipulating pieces as I could with a more mundane and simple plot that involved almost 100% PC characters.
In the end, Merchant Houses, Mercenary Guilds and other mundane organizations are my favorite playgrounds because they have the largest chance of seeing a plot that one could actually feel as if your presence made a difference.
-LoD
QuoteAn example would be something along the lines of a caravan carrying some valuable product (perhaps a new kind of rare spice, or some metal ore) was rumored to have gotten lost in a storm, stranded and its men killed by creatures of the desert. One of them managed to get away and reach a small village (Red Storm East, Cenyr, etc...)
The rumor gets passed on to the various Merchant Houses, who can then hire independants, the Byn and other entitites to try and recover the remnants of the caravan. What is actually found in the caravan, who finds it and what they must overcome to reach it are all part of the fun. Even finding more information on what it was carrying and why could be made available at remote villages or clues could be found.
This kind of plot seems something that would need Imm support, which is good and all. I'd like to see more of these kinds of plots now and then.