Okay... without going in to extreme detail, I just snuck a something very small and valuable past some people that didn't want me sneaking it. It sparked an idea.
Before I go in to this idea, I do realize that Armageddon is not the real world and blah blah blah.
But, I honestly think the 'searching' code at the Allanak gates and other places needs some overhaul... not to mention the insane uber 4 free prompt 18 kick no delay bash dead and still slashing intro combat thing because you unfortunately saved against subdue. But lets just not go there, hmm?
I would *love* to see certain sneaky types (picks, burgs, cons, etc) have a brachable 'smuggling' skill. It just makes sense, honestly, to me at least, that in a world where person A is trying to get thing A from point A to person B at point B, but people C stand in the way (namely at point C), that eventually person A would get very good at realizing where people C aren't going to look.
And I'm not just talking about shoving it up your ass, either. Give me any one thing smaller than, say, my thumb, and I can get it past damn near anyone given, lets say, a half hour of prep time and no elaborate gear. Take that knot of spice, wrap it up in your hair, and bind the hair so it is relatively unmoving. Take that steel dagger and wrap up your arm as if it's been broken, brace the dagger underneath one of the slats.
The insta-mega-insano-search method used on the gates right now is WAY out the box. In a city that big, they are going to stop EVERY SINGLE PERSON and check EVERY SINGLE CONTAINER? Um... no?
Please don't make me take video footage of me smuggling a live marmoset in my pants across the Canadian border to prove this point.
Anyone?
I'd like to see that video. ;)
I think it's a fantastic idea.
http://www.bergen.org/Smithsonian/MarmosetMonkey/
I always wanted a helper monkey.
But, yes. I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of skill in order to sneak idems in. I mean, currently, once you figure out -how- to do it, you'll do it every time. And the bugs around the code to do that are really cheesy.
It would be a neat addition. Now, if only there was a more visible place to sell your sneaky spice at, and if it was more profitable than it is now... hmm.
Oh yes, and a way to combine grains of spice into pinches, and pinches into knots. Perhaps Kurac could do that for a low low fee.
I'm all for it Malifaxis, Right now, the current ways to sneak stuff past those guards, Well, it feels twinky and ooc...wait, oh, thats because it is, becaus ethe only way we have to get past that code is to know that code and it's loopholes..IE OOC knowledge...should be fixed.
Oh, and I'd like to see the video too.
But you'd be amazed what I've smuggled into places before (mostly jail).
There are enough mechanisms to smuggle into Allanak as sits, imho (even without abusing the code).
I vote we get to see the video as well, and replace "marmoset" with "rabid weasel."
Quote from: "Malifaxis"
The insta-mega-insano-search method used on the gates right now is WAY out the box. In a city that big, they are going to stop EVERY SINGLE PERSON and check EVERY SINGLE CONTAINER? Um... no?
Maybe make it random checks? I.E. A hundred people maybe pass through the gates but 1 of every 10 gets a check over the belongings on him - belt, backpack, cloak, and any other container that he's wearing. 1 out of every 100 on the other hand gets the insane check - the strip search, the body cavity search, etc. done to him.
Quote from: "Eclipse"Maybe make it random checks? I.E. A hundred people maybe pass through the gates but 1 of every 10 gets a check over the belongings on him - belt, backpack, cloak, and any other container that he's wearing. 1 out of every 100 on the other hand gets the insane check - the strip search, the body cavity search, etc. done to him.
And every elf!
I love it.
I think Flare's idea should be implemented fully, and we should all get to see the video.
(having problem with stuff, double post thing delete pleasy)
All for it.
Quote from: "Malifaxis"Please don't make me take video footage of me smuggling a live marmoset in my pants across the Canadian border to prove this point.
Good idea and all... but I would like to see this video.
Isn't it possible to use sneak to get past guards (if your good enough at sneak)? If so, I think it'd be better to update the spice-checking code to incorporate this (if it currently doesn't) rather then introduce a new skill.
Quote from: "Ammit"Isn't it possible to use sneak to get past guards (if your good enough at sneak)? If so, I think it'd be better to update the spice-checking code to incorporate this (if it currently doesn't) rather then introduce a new skill.
It is...but you
must to use a combination of skills in order to do that.
And you have to be pretty good at them. This is an idea on how to get by at only two locations of the game... and it's trying to let a bunch of people do it, instead of just the rogue guilds. I think you should be able to do it with a subclass aswell, as stated at the start. *shrug*
Ideas..
A) Make it a subset of "Sleight of Hand", namely, palm and plant and slip. Make it very difficult to tell if you did it right. When you mule somthing...you're going to be nervous. Regardless. You might just slip by looking shady, even if you hid that knot of spice in your hair. Or wherever you might hide it. Especially if you hide it in places you don't want people to be looking.
B) Make it available with "Con Artist" under "Haggle". "Whats that you got there? Broken arm ey'..Lets see it." "Oh no mr. Soldier...It hurts real ba...Ow...ow!! Whats that over there, an elf!" *sneak off*.
I really think A is the best way to go with this.
B is just another idea.
Palm and slip are used in order to discretely place an item in or out of a container. It does not mean you hide them there, just that nobody will notice you doing it.
Plant is related to the 'steal' skill and not 'sleight of hand' (I think it's in the helpfiles, but I'm being too lazy to check...shouldn't be sensitive either way), and is also not exactly related to smuggling things...unless you intend to hide the spice on someone else and then steal it back from them.
I hear that there are several ways to smuggle stuff into Allanak...but whatever these ways are, I don't think it should be as simple as walking through the gates with a particular character guild.
It annoys me in the same way that only rangers can forage food or water...I don't think these restrictions should exist.
About B, by the way...I hope your run_like_ass_burninated_elf skill is maxed. And it has nothing to do with haggle, that's just trying to distract someone and then making a break for it.
If you want to roleplay it, you should wish up so that the code doesn't grab you needlessly after you explain for half an hour that the grain of spice is under your toenail in your boots.
I think its perfectly legitimate, especially in the case of "palm", to consider once you are good enough at one skill, you begin to learn another.
Isn't that what branching is, in a sense? You've gotten so good, that you can do other shit now.
Hmm...For years i've figured out how to put somthing under my palm and let it slip unnoticed into my pocket. What about slipping somthing 'illegal' into not my pocket...but....my ass.
I mean...Instead of shooting me down, Larrath, why don't you come up with a better idea, than annoying the IMM's every time you want to do somthing really impossible with the current code status.
wish all Hey...I don't know if you can do this...But can you make pigs fly? Thanks.
forgot to login, that was me Reiloth.
:roll:
I am not trying to shoot anyone down, I am just stating a simple fact;
the 'palm' command is used to discretely place items, and not place them somewhere discrete.
Realistically, it is possible to be without any form of talent in slipping things in your hand, but still be able to take five minutes to hide something on your person.
I do not have a better idea because personally, I do not know whether I want this. If we have a smuggling skill, every Joe Pickpocket is going to be able to smuggle brick after brick of spice into Allanak, and then the whole thing is just silly.
Like I said before, there appear to be ways to already smuggle goods into Allanak. If you want to play a scene using soldiers, I don't see why 'bothering' the imms with wishing up is such a bad thing. I didn't say you had to smuggle stuff in and out of Allanak twenty times a day.
*shrug* This is my position about this. Smuggling should be possible but difficult, and not simply because it requires a high 'smuggling' skill.
I blame thread nilazification on mansa.
Quote from: Malifaxis on August 18, 2004, 04:13:58 PM
I would *love* to see certain sneaky types (picks, burgs, cons, etc) have a brachable 'smuggling' skill. It just makes sense, honestly, to me at least, that in a world where person A is trying to get thing A from point A to person B at point B, but people C stand in the way (namely at point C), that eventually person A would get very good at realizing where people C aren't going to look.
Can we extend the search/smuggle concept to include searches by PCs? That would give this idea a little broader application than the handful of cases and places in which NPC search scripts are in effect.
- Make "peek" and "steal" work without fail when someone is subdued and not successfully smuggling.
--- It should be possible to remove any worn item from someone who's subdued.
--- This gives PCs the tools they need to really shake someone down.
- Add a command, "smuggle," that lets you conceal a single container or item in your inventory. Success penalized for larger items, with absolute failure guaranteed for, say, footlockers.
- When something's successfully smuggled, it can't be found using peek, even if you're subdued.
- Make it a starting skill for pickpockets (who seem to need some love), and branched for other sneakies.
- Skill improves when it fails vs. peek, or when an NPC search actually removes the smuggled item from you.
> smuggle knot
You conceal a knot of spice on your person. [Also hemoted to room?]
> inv
You are carrying:
- an empty water pouch
- a knot of spice (concealed)Hold or drop the concealed item to stop smuggling it.
+1 what brytta said.
I'm like'n this idea more and more.
You could use it for more then just smuggling, too... if...
Everything that wasn't smuggled could be seen when someone looks at you.
And the peek command was used exclusively for looking in people's containers. Opened or closed.
good idea?
There are a few far more interesting ways of smuggling things into Allanak with out adding any code, or exploiting the existing code, (some of which can be done by anyone) it's just a matter of figuring/finding out how to.
However I do like the idea of modifying the search code to be random searches however I'd say it should be more like 50/50 or 70/30 rather then 90/10. In all honesty in todays terms Allanak isn't -that- big. I also like the extra bit of flavor that having every elf searched adds.
Quote from: daedroug on December 04, 2009, 03:52:53 PM
There are a few far more interesting ways of smuggling things into Allanak with out adding any code, or exploiting the existing code, (some of which can be done by anyone) it's just a matter of figuring/finding out how to.
However I do like the idea of modifying the search code to be random searches however I'd say it should be more like 50/50 or 70/30 rather then 90/10. In all honesty in todays terms Allanak isn't -that- big. I also like the extra bit of flavor that having every elf searched adds.
I agree with the second paragraph. But the first statement lends itself to OOC abuse. Ie, I know these ways in (as a mundane, there are more if you're a mage) but should I know them character to character? Something skill based is preferable I think.
Quote from: jmordetsky on December 04, 2009, 07:10:22 PM
Quote from: daedroug on December 04, 2009, 03:52:53 PM
There are a few far more interesting ways of smuggling things into Allanak with out adding any code, or exploiting the existing code, (some of which can be done by anyone) it's just a matter of figuring/finding out how to.
However I do like the idea of modifying the search code to be random searches however I'd say it should be more like 50/50 or 70/30 rather then 90/10. In all honesty in todays terms Allanak isn't -that- big. I also like the extra bit of flavor that having every elf searched adds.
I agree with the second paragraph. But the first statement lends itself to OOC abuse. Ie, I know these ways in (as a mundane, there are more if you're a mage) but should I know them character to character? Something skill based is preferable I think.
Skill based seems just more boring to me. It's kind of like
think hmmm ok I wanna smuggle this spice in.
smuggle spice
think Yay!
Although the present ways are susceptible to previous knowledge, it's still certainly more interesting and takes more planning then that.
Quote from: daedroug on December 04, 2009, 07:44:18 PM
Quote from: jmordetsky on December 04, 2009, 07:10:22 PM
Quote from: daedroug on December 04, 2009, 03:52:53 PM
There are a few far more interesting ways of smuggling things into Allanak with out adding any code, or exploiting the existing code, (some of which can be done by anyone) it's just a matter of figuring/finding out how to.
However I do like the idea of modifying the search code to be random searches however I'd say it should be more like 50/50 or 70/30 rather then 90/10. In all honesty in todays terms Allanak isn't -that- big. I also like the extra bit of flavor that having every elf searched adds.
True enough - though with this system the weight and size of what you are attempting to smuggle can be taken into account. Therefore - existing channels wouldn't be make obsolete if you were planning serious action + movement. But for a pinch here or a not there, a conceal command might be cool
I agree with the second paragraph. But the first statement lends itself to OOC abuse. Ie, I know these ways in (as a mundane, there are more if you're a mage) but should I know them character to character? Something skill based is preferable I think.
Skill based seems just more boring to me. It's kind of like
think hmmm ok I wanna smuggle this spice in.
smuggle spice
think Yay!
Although the present ways are susceptible to previous knowledge, it's still certainly more interesting and takes more planning then that.
I like the idea of the smuggle skill, or of a new verb "conceal" that works off of slight-of-hand.
Heh, I'm not sure how I feel about the idea. However, I have to point out that it wouldn't make much of a difference to have an actual smuggling skill. We all know how pitiful skills are when they start out....everyone with this skill would die the first time they tried to use it.
He does have REALLY good point there ;D
It could improve whenever someone looks at you... :-[
But all you bad, bad twinks out there who want to get decent at your skills could easily practice this with another PC, or just always keep a weapon hidden so that it gets exercised every time you're arrested for something else.
C'mon, it can't be harder to train than ARCHERY.
Quote from: morrigan on December 05, 2009, 08:27:59 AM
We all know how pitiful skills are when they start out....
That's why I say key it off of slight-of-hand, but your point stands. Like many other skills, it should be a binary thing -- you can smuggle by virtue of char-gen or you can't.
Quote from: number13 on December 05, 2009, 11:04:09 AM
Quote from: morrigan on December 05, 2009, 08:27:59 AM
We all know how pitiful skills are when they start out....
That's why I say key it off of slight-of-hand, but your point stands. Like many other skills, it should be a binary thing -- you can smuggle by virtue of char-gen or you can't.
The thing is even if they where to add code to aid in smuggling there are still the original and imho more interesting ways of smuggling things. My suggestion is that if you really want to smuggle something talk to someone in game that would know how to do it.
Female PCs should have a bonus to smuggle.
Quote from: daedroug on December 05, 2009, 11:10:01 AM
The thing is even if they where to add code to aid in smuggling there are still the original and imho more interesting ways of smuggling things. My suggestion is that if you really want to smuggle something talk to someone in game that would know how to do it.
I know how to do it. I still think a smuggler skill would be more interesting.
smuggle tube
You attempt to hide a tube of spice on yourself.
If your in the same room, and the PC in question fails the smuggle attempt or your actively scanning/watching, you see this:
You notice: the tall, muscular man attempts to conceal a tube of spice.
Just another skill like hide, except for equipment. The smaller the item, the easier it is to smuggle.
Skilled:
>look
Big Gates [N S F W]
Large, guarded gates are here.
A guard is here.
the tall, muscular man stands here.
Unskilled
>look
Big Gates [N S F W]
Large, guarded gates are here.
A guard is here.
the tall, muscular man stands here.
-He is attempting to conceal something.
Just base it off of sleight of hand for simplicity.
Example:
>slip tube
You attempt to conceal a half of a tube of spice.
>inv
You are carrying:
a half of a tube of spice (concealed)
Depending on how skillful your attempt was, people won't see it when they 'peek', and gate guards won't see your water/contraband when you step in. Could be useful for bringing weapons to jail too. Should be compatible with pre-emotes and post-emotes.
Quote from: daedroug on December 05, 2009, 11:10:01 AM
The thing is even if they where to add code to aid in smuggling there are still the original and imho more interesting ways of smuggling things. My suggestion is that if you really want to smuggle something talk to someone in game that would know how to do it.
The way I've seen it done is not interesting; it's dumb. :-X Undoubtedly there are other ways.
But I think this is something that should be based off a skill, not a code puzzle. If punk kids in real life can figure out how to hide stuff in their pants without consulting Learned Graybeards, so can anyone.
When I was in jail, we couldn't take cigarettes into the holding cell while waiting to see the judge..so I used strings from my blanket and tied a few to a certain part of my body that no one would be seeing...
I know that almost sounds like a derail, but it's meant as an illustration of how easy it can be.
Quote from: brytta.leofa on December 05, 2009, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: daedroug on December 05, 2009, 11:10:01 AM
The thing is even if they where to add code to aid in smuggling there are still the original and imho more interesting ways of smuggling things. My suggestion is that if you really want to smuggle something talk to someone in game that would know how to do it.
The way I've seen it done is not interesting; it's dumb. :-X Undoubtedly there are other ways.
But I think this is something that should be based off a skill, not a code puzzle. If punk kids in real life can figure out how to hide stuff in their pants without consulting Learned Graybeards, so can anyone.
The other ways aren't code puzzles they simple require IC knowledge of how to do it.
Quick question though.... How well do you -really- think those guards search your pack?
They search damn near anyone and everyone that passes through the gates, so why shouldn't the current method work?
Not bashing anyone's work ethic here, but if the guards took the time to search every single bag and pack 100% all the way thoroughly, there'd be a huuuuuge line coming in and leaving the gates.
imo, i dont think soldiers are willing to check trousers.. So get some trousers and stick it between your crack, thats a good hiding place.
Quote from: Rogerthat on December 06, 2009, 02:20:13 AM
imo, i dont think soldiers are willing to check trousers.. So get some trousers and stick it between your crack, thats a good hiding place.
"What? No! The spice is supposed to smell like sweaty half-giant ass! It's a special kind, very rare."
You know the best thing about this idea? Allanak doesn't have ethical rights. Upskirt checks will rise 100%!
Quote from: Rogerthat on December 06, 2009, 02:20:13 AM
imo, i dont think soldiers are willing to check trousers.. So get some trousers and stick it between your crack, thats a good hiding place.
if they're really serious about it being illegal they'd check.
There are so many things about this thread that I like I'd be hard pressed to name them all. I laughed, I sneered...I really enjoyed the post that intro'd with 'when I was in jail..' and I concur with Synthesis about lady folks getting a bonus.
However, I'm not big into training a skill for this. How about the search code is loosened somewhat or, assuming the punishment becomes more gentle as Malifaxis mentioned in passing, randomized. I know both of those were already mentioned, I'm just agreeing with the previous posters without bothering to quote and credit.
As many people say, it shouldn't be that hard. It should be easy. I used to sneak cigarettes into high school every day in an altoids box and they searched everyone's bag.
I know someone who has frequently flown with cocaine tucked into his sock. There are myriad real life solutions and the game world should perhaps reflect a bit more flexibility.