Is there any plans to have the nobles have more "Teeth" in town without a Templar present?

Example: Joe Commoner insults a Noble, can the noble incriminate without crying to a templar?  Can the noble just straight murder the disrespectful commoner?

One of my issues with nobles has always been that they are very much empty husks in my eyes.  Templars /are/ scary as they should be, but nobles were just coin vending machines occassionally.

If you guys could make some code changes that make nobles scarier, or allow nobles to gain some actualy combat skills via Tor Academy or something and be codedly scary, they would be less prop-like in my mind.

Man ... Tor ... like, won.

Yessir.

Quote from: The7DeadlyVenomz on April 04, 2024, 09:31:16 PMMan ... Tor ... like, won.

Yessir.

Which means it's a good day for Allanak.. and therefor the rest of the world!
~His Shadow

Maybe now they won't get thrown under the bus by the Templarate every time some military decision making needs to be done.

Quote from: Tuannon on April 05, 2024, 09:35:14 AMMaybe now they won't get thrown under the bus by the Templarate every time some military decision making needs to be done.

I'm hoping that the dynamic that we've developed of the Noble Houses working together/around the Templarate is much more fun for everyone involved, from the leader to the junior soldier. A relationship like this is difficult to frame under the constraints of our lore, but I think we've done a pretty good job. Also: Tor will enjoy new and updated docs for the House, so there will be a fresh coat of paint at the least.

QuoteIs there any plans to have the nobles have more "Teeth" in town without a Templar present?

We may or may not be working on something along these lines but we are not ready to reveal details just yet.

I'm all for Tuluk being a stratified theocracy, I'm not for Allanak being exactly the same thing with a jade cross.

I would say Allanak and Tuluk are both Autocracies, if I had to define them, ran by one person.

I dream of playing the Tor noble who is a combat badass. That's how I tried to play my Winrothol, and had so much fun with the Templars sparring and going out on hunts with the Legion. Leaving the city should be restrictive for nobles, but not learning to train amongst themselves if they are inclined to do so, but be prepared for the social repercussion.

For nobles, dealing with insulting commoners without a templar around, there's that pesky rule about nobles not getting into fights with commoners to consider. Hrm... I don't think they should be crim immune. Hopefully there will be more Arm of the Dragon about and who are willing to kiss ass to the highborn and deal with scum harrassing nobles, or the military roles will come back and Borsail can have a wyvern kick their ass, or Oash get the Elite to intimidate them, or what I'd like to do is hire a Bynner right there and then if possible and offer x coins to beat the shit out of said insulting commoner. Or, another option is pay off the Guild to beat up their best friend, and hopefully teach them a more personal lesson.

Tor and the Scorpions needs to be fighting on the frontline as a military force against hostile npc's, gith, mantis, silt pirates, tuluki legion etc. That I would love to see. Tor rule the desert, the arm rules within the city.

I could do another huge writeup for ideas to improving nobles, but I won't just yet! 😁

Tor are not rank and file though, the tens are ELITE troops. Even the reds.

A unit of Tor infantry should be placed in sensitive places to make sure objectives are either taken or held. Not thrown away.

Quote from: Tuannon on April 06, 2024, 11:01:14 AMTor are not rank and file though, the tens are ELITE troops. Even the reds.

A unit of Tor infantry should be placed in sensitive places to make sure objectives are either taken or held. Not thrown away.

Unfortunately, much of recent history (virtually) shows Tor just absolutely dropping full units of elite troops in absolutely stupid situations.

Thats what the Arm is for. I thought the AoD was the Groundpounder army and that the Tor were the specialized Marines.

Y'all are in luck - I think you'll like the docs overhaul. I'm looking forward to people engaging with our new clan direction for Tor. (Both from a metagame and in character lore perspective.)

So are nobles going to be able to actually spar/fight and train skills versus being useless?

Quote from: Pariah on April 06, 2024, 12:41:35 PMSo are nobles going to be able to actually spar/fight and train skills versus being useless?

To my knowledge Tor nobles have always been able to do so, but if not, then yes. They can/will need to spar.

They might be selective in who they spar with, but yes - it will be a role requirement for Tor nobles to be competent in battle.

edit:
I will point out that it is strictly illegal to "harm" a noble as a commoner within Allanak. So spar with a Tor noble at your own risk....

When I learned that Tor had thrown away like.. fifty Reds for whatever venture that was, I wasn't a happy camper, Riev.

While Tor was one of the 'Red' (vs 'Blue' for Oashi aligned) houses in the sense it was aligned with Borsail and thus skills over spells, I'm not SUPER anti the new direction given it has been given a flavour that holds true to some of the pogroms of the Academy in the Echri era.

Which is not so much blatant use of magicks of mass destruction but focussed magickal problem solving. That said I want to see Elkrosians for siege breaker duty and so on.

Sparring now..

You could never spar with a commoner and noble vs noble was VERY cautious.

I have participated in noble vs slave, but that was a fairly unique situation.

I don't know if you could be 'gicked up' and I don't think you should be able to be for training purposes.

Quote from: TuannonYou could never spar with a commoner and noble vs noble was VERY cautious.

I have participated in noble vs slave, but that was a fairly unique situation.

I might be misremembering some of my slave/noble RP, then.

Either way, it'll be up to the Tor PC how they run their unit/Academy. The Templarate isn't going to kick in the Academy doors to arrest a commoner for hitting a noble unless it's requested, one could assume. I doubt other Houses will be so eagerly loose with propriety in this respect, however, as that is a uniquely Tor aspect of their fame/reputation.

Quote from: Tuannon on April 06, 2024, 01:09:57 PMI don't know if you could be 'gicked up' and I don't think you should be able to be for training purposes.

There will be social division between Gemmed and mundane members of the Academy for sparring.

Elemental magick, except where strictly permitted by the Templarate, is forbidden in Allanak.

So mages would still not be allowed to walk around "wearing" non-visible effects?

Protective buffs that mundane people can't see?

Or will that be considered "acceptable" or at least "not expressly forbidden"?

Example of why I ask:

Jim the Rukkian casts "protective dust cover" which acts as a +10 to his natural defenses. The only people who would be capable of seeing this effect, would be templars IF they have "detect ruk-dust-cover-stuff" or other rukkians.

Jim walks out of his temple after casting it, and through the mage quarter to the Tor Academy, because Lord Tor needs a living sparring dummy for an hour, and it's Jim's turn.

On his way, he runs into Lady Templar Fale, who isn't aware of this arrangement. She sees that he has this protective spell on.

Would it be -a reasonable expectation- for her to give him shit for it, OR would it be a -reasonable expectation- for her to know that the city is tolerant of these types of defensive magicks unseen by mundane eyes?

Quote from: Lizzie on April 06, 2024, 02:13:02 PMSo mages would still not be allowed to walk around "wearing" non-visible effects?

Protective buffs that mundane people can't see?

Or will that be considered "acceptable" or at least "not expressly forbidden"?

Visible magick (and sometimes invisible magick) is punishable by law, oft times severely. Any deviation from that expectation is a Templar's whim/personal grant. That remains a part of Allanak's laws/policies.

Quote from: Valkyrja on April 06, 2024, 02:21:11 PMVisible magick (and sometimes invisible magick) is punishable by law, oft times severely. Any deviation from that expectation is a Templar's whim/personal grant. That remains a part of Allanak's laws/policies.

For now at least, not like laws don't change with some effort. I feel like a piece of tasty meat has been dangled in the faces of certain magick loving players to shape the game in strange new ways. Its dangerous but i must also admit its interesting.

I'm told I locked this thread but had no intention of locking this thread.  Sorry for that, I'm new.  There are new buttons here.

Quote from: Hulrouk on April 07, 2024, 05:28:37 PMI'm told I locked this thread but had no intention of locking this thread.  Sorry for that, I'm new.  There are new buttons here.

Lmao, shit happens but I was scratching my head going who locked it and why?

Quote from: Hulrouk on April 07, 2024, 05:28:37 PMI'm told I locked this thread but had no intention of locking this thread.  Sorry for that, I'm new.  There are new buttons here.

@Hulrouk has me checking my DMs to see if I've been fired....

Okay so I am not really thrilled about this change. First off full transparency I am a little biased here. I played the Oash that was directly involved in acquiring the top slot as premier house. I worked my butt off for IRL years and I know there have been a long line of absolutely fantastic Oash players that who my character got to stand on the shoulders of. So while I do think the Houses should be dynamic in ranking. I think it should shift with in game world events. I strongly feel that should be player driven and not be changed unless players had a hand in it. Also it shouldn't be easy to hand wipe away all the achievements one player made when the next one come along. If you have a history of six absolutely bad ass nobles building up the house that shouldn't be undone with a hand wave or when when one new noble stumbles. I was also intending on applying for Valika role and I had a really good concept worked out so I am little sad about that lol. But here is my feelings on the subject.

Kasix- This seems like a good move honestly. We don't really need two slaving houses. Borsail can/does fill the slaving role and I feel like we don't have the player base to accommodate both. I might have been more inclined to ditch Borsail of the two because it has some horrible history. I could see the Borsail getting stripped of rings considering the entire 'letting the Gith into the city' 2003ish plot line and previously having their Estate torched by the Highlord. But one of them should go.

Tor- I feel this was a horrible choice. First Tor is a hard sell. They can't ever keep scorpions open or filled with players. We have /way/ to many options for combat roles in the game. There is AoD, the Byn, various player driven merc groups, raiders, ect... We do not have the player base for what Tor does. If any house got the Axe I would have been a advocate for Tor as a player. The PC's in this role have high turn over too. The thing I /always/ hear is you don't have a role with Tor. You are either pissing off the Blue robes for stepping on their toes or you get a ton of no's from Staff because they have historically not wanted to play up the combat role of this house. Don't get me wrong its a great clan on paper...we just don't have player base for it. If we had 1000 people logging in every day you could have a cool Clan Tor but we just don't and I don't think we are likely too.

Valika- I really feel this clan would have been a much more suitable to choice to keep than a number of others. I am sorry I won't get to play one.

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2024, 01:35:41 PMOkay so I am not really thrilled about this change. First off full transparency I am a little biased here. I played the Oash that was directly involved in acquiring the top slot as premier house. I worked my butt off for IRL years and I know there have been a long line of absolutely fantastic Oash players that who my character got to stand on the shoulders of. So while I do think the Houses should be dynamic in ranking. I think it should shift with in game world events. I strongly feel that should be player driven and not be changed unless players had a hand in it. Also it shouldn't be easy to hand wipe away all the achievements one player made when the next one come along. If you have a history of six absolutely bad ass nobles building up the house that shouldn't be undone with a hand wave or when when one new noble stumbles. I was also intending on applying for Valika role and I had a really good concept worked out so I am little sad about that lol. But here is my feelings on the subject.

Kasix- This seems like a good move honestly. We don't really need two slaving houses. Borsail can/does fill the slaving role and I feel like we don't have the player base to accommodate both. I might have been more inclined to ditch Borsail of the two because it has some horrible history. I could see the Borsail getting stripped of rings considering the entire 'letting the Gith into the city' 2003ish plot line and previously having their Estate torched by the Highlord. But one of them should go.

Tor- I feel this was a horrible choice. First Tor is a hard sell. They can't ever keep scorpions open or filled with players. We have /way/ to many options for combat roles in the game. There is AoD, the Byn, various player driven merc groups, raiders, ect... We do not have the player base for what Tor does. If any house got the Axe I would have been a advocate for Tor as a player. The PC's in this role have high turn over too. The thing I /always/ hear is you don't have a role with Tor. You are either pissing off the Blue robes for stepping on their toes or you get a ton of no's from Staff because they have historically not wanted to play up the combat role of this house. Don't get me wrong its a great clan on paper...we just don't have player base for it. If we had 1000 people logging in every day you could have a cool Clan Tor but we just don't and I don't think we are likely too.

Valika- I really feel this clan would have been a much more suitable to choice to keep than a number of others. I am sorry I won't get to play one.

I understand why you might feel this way, but it's important to remember that your PC's successes were not binned with Seasons. Large scale plots have wide ranging effects, regardless of organization or personal accomplishments. You're absolutely right that Oash has been blessed with back-to-back-to-back great PCs over the years.

About Tor:
The last time the Tor Scorpions were open for recruitment was 2011 to my knowledge. It has been open periodically here and there for a political noble or Academy Instructor. I'm also not personally aware of the Tor Academy being open for formalized instruction and the college environment Academy since 2014, but I could be wrong. This new iteration of Tor is our best shot to return to the spirit of what attracts players to Tor. For some clans, we are considering that we open them "in parts" to assure that there is enough interest in them, Tor being one of them.

And without revealing too much about the things we have cooked up: Yes, Tor has a job. All of our clans and Noble Houses will have a role in the game world. We are carefully considering which clans we are opening/closing and making sure that we are doing our best to support their intended roles adequately.

As for your Valika concept: There's a strong possibility that it makes sense for you to app as a Fale if you are interested.

Quote from: Valkyrja on April 15, 2024, 05:44:55 PM

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2024, 01:35:41 PMOkay so I am not really thrilled about this change. First off full transparency I am a little biased here. I played the Oash that was directly involved in acquiring the top slot as premier house. I worked my butt off for IRL years and I know there have been a long line of absolutely fantastic Oash players that who my character got to stand on the shoulders of. So while I do think the Houses should be dynamic in ranking. I think it should shift with in game world events. I strongly feel that should be player driven and not be changed unless players had a hand in it. Also it shouldn't be easy to hand wipe away all the achievements one player made when the next one come along. If you have a history of six absolutely bad ass nobles building up the house that shouldn't be undone with a hand wave or when when one new noble stumbles. I was also intending on applying for Valika role and I had a really good concept worked out so I am little sad about that lol. But here is my feelings on the subject.

Kasix- This seems like a good move honestly. We don't really need two slaving houses. Borsail can/does fill the slaving role and I feel like we don't have the player base to accommodate both. I might have been more inclined to ditch Borsail of the two because it has some horrible history. I could see the Borsail getting stripped of rings considering the entire 'letting the Gith into the city' 2003ish plot line and previously having their Estate torched by the Highlord. But one of them should go.

Tor- I feel this was a horrible choice. First Tor is a hard sell. They can't ever keep scorpions open or filled with players. We have /way/ to many options for combat roles in the game. There is AoD, the Byn, various player driven merc groups, raiders, ect... We do not have the player base for what Tor does. If any house got the Axe I would have been a advocate for Tor as a player. The PC's in this role have high turn over too. The thing I /always/ hear is you don't have a role with Tor. You are either pissing off the Blue robes for stepping on their toes or you get a ton of no's from Staff because they have historically not wanted to play up the combat role of this house. Don't get me wrong its a great clan on paper...we just don't have player base for it. If we had 1000 people logging in every day you could have a cool Clan Tor but we just don't and I don't think we are likely too.

Valika- I really feel this clan would have been a much more suitable to choice to keep than a number of others. I am sorry I won't get to play one.

I understand why you might feel this way, but it's important to remember that your PC's successes were not binned with Seasons. Large scale plots have wide ranging effects, regardless of organization or personal accomplishments. You're absolutely right that Oash has been blessed with back-to-back-to-back great PCs over the years.

About Tor:
The last time the Tor Scorpions were open for recruitment was 2011 to my knowledge. It has been open periodically here and there for a political noble or Academy Instructor. I'm also not personally aware of the Tor Academy being open for formalized instruction and the college environment Academy since 2014, but I could be wrong. This new iteration of Tor is our best shot to return to the spirit of what attracts players to Tor. Some clans we are considering that we open them "in parts" to assure that there is enough interest in them, Tor being one of them.

And without revealing too much about the things we have cooked up: Yes, Tor has a job. All of our clans and Noble Houses will have a role in the game world. We are carefully considering which clans we are opening/closing and making sure that we are doing our best to support their intended roles adequately.

As for your Valika concept: There's a strong possibility that it makes sense for you to app as a Fale if you are interested.

Hopefully none of that came off as me being Butt hurt. I am diffidently coming back to see the changes and intend to throw in a few applications and concepts.

To Tor, I think every Tor PC I have seen played has complained about not being run the Scorpions or feeling like they are getting pounded on for stepping on Templar's toes. Its just my impute from my limited perspective and I do feel we are often over stretched with combat roles. Templars can't recruit because the Byn, Raider group X, indy merchant 'y' has all the combat players ect.. And again I am OBVIOUSLY biased because of my last city played PC and the years I put into her.

I am very looking forward to putting applications and seeing the changes. I am super proud of staff for doing this all for the game and I am sure you guys are working your tails off getting it done. I am really excited to jump into seasons and I've always loved the political side of the game in Allanak.

Quote from: Bast on April 15, 2024, 06:01:50 PMTo Tor, I think every Tor PC I have seen played has complained about not being run the Scorpions or feeling like they are getting pounded on for stepping on Templar's toes. Its just my impute from my limited perspective and I do feel we are often over stretched with combat roles. Templars can't recruit because the Byn, Raider group X, indy merchant 'y' has all the combat players ect.. And again I am OBVIOUSLY biased because of my last city played PC and the years I put into her.

No, definitely. Tor Scorpions not being open "for reasons" has been a personal complaint of mine, as well.

All good!