I was probably considered one of the "in crowd" back in the day (I was THE most prolific poster at one point and remained in the top 10 years after I stopped posting). I never felt like people disagreed with my ideas any less (in fact, because I posted so often I felt like I was disagreed with quite a bit). I've never had anyone approach me about joining an IC clan or clique as a result of my posts on the GDB (why not guys? Don't you love me? :'()
So is there anything we can do to make this place friendlier to new players? Does anyone know why they don't feel welcome here?
Other than being friendly and welcoming to them via posts? I say pull them under your wing in-game, especially if you're in a group, and they will feel like they're apart of something enough to have the courage to add to the discussions here.
Basically, if people see the players are friendly and welcoming in-game, there's no reason to believe otherwise here. We just need to, as posters on the forum, be more welcoming and receptive to others so there's no shock between the players they know in-game and the people who post on the GDB.
I think, honestly, all the newer players need is a little time and patience, and they'll come to understand that the ENTIRE playerbase is one big huge clique, and they're a member of it.
Quote from: Lizzie on February 22, 2016, 09:26:22 PM
I think, honestly, all the newer players need is a little time and patience, and they'll come to understand that the ENTIRE playerbase is one big huge clique, and they're a member of it.
Im nearing my 2nd year of being a member of the community and I couldn't agree more with this.
of course, welcoming new players and doingwhat one can to ease the ride is also important.
The people who helped me get used to arm, on my first character, both helpers in the help chat, players in game, and even staff, made the experience amazing.
It was incredibly daunting at times and there was so much (And still is so much) to learn about the game's lore and world.
So, from me? another round of thanks to all those players, helpers, and staff who helped me get through my early days of arm.
Bcw has gotten me through this game like no other.
I haven't been to the chat in a whole.
Two days?
They did a good job.
Just try not to post dismissive memes or one-liners, I guess. It's like, I don't know you, so why are you being so rude? Most people aren't like that but when I make a thread because I think it might benefit other people and the first, immediate response I get is Peter Griffin saying "Oh my God, who the hell cares?" it doesn't make me feel very good, and it leads me to wonder if there's an undercurrent of "who the hell are you anyway and why do I care what you think?" I don't want to single anyone out or cause drama with anybody, so I hesitate to bring up this example, but I think it shows the kind of remarks that can lead people to feel like outsiders. Perhaps who I am (or who I'm not) is a non-issue in this case, but I can sympathize with anyone who perceives it that way when they're blown off by some vet that is an outspoken voice in the community.
Of course, I know this is the Internet and that's just kind of the way it is. I'm a member of other online communities in which people are often outright hostile, and I shrug it off because trolls will be trolls. I just don't expect to see that so much here, and it always surprises me. It doesn't matter so much because the game, which is what I'm here for, is largely anonymous anyway, but for someone who's more interested in the community side of things than I am, I could see it being a lot more upsetting.
Quote from: Lizzie on February 22, 2016, 09:26:22 PM
I think, honestly, all the newer players need is a little time and patience, and they'll come to understand that the ENTIRE playerbase is one big huge clique, and they're a member of it.
lol
Don't diss newbs, snark at vets or get aggressive at staff.
(http://img04.deviantart.net/793e/i/2009/293/6/1/with_arms_wide_open___by_lexielove12.jpg)
I think part of the issue is that it becomes really difficult in this medium to differentiate between people's response to topics and people's responses to people.
Using Peter Griffin as an example, I'm pretty sure the poster was expressing a frustration with the GDB (as a whole) making that topic into a point of discussion, and not with Beethoven creating a thread for it.
It happens a lot. New people post on topics we've talked over a thousand times, thinking it's something new (because it IS new to them). Vets respond tersely, or with little eye roll emojis, because they find the topic's resurgence bothersome. The individual posting it has nothing to do with their vexation, but is bound to take it personally, not realizing the board has years of history with that discussion.
Vets post about things we've talked over a thousand times, because they are unsatisfied with the past solutions, and bring it up, trying for a new angle or a new perspective, but everyone else just sees the same old saw, and posts their same old rebuttals, more tersely this time.
I don't know how you fix it. People just need to realize there's a history here. It kind of is like one big clique, but you can never be sure which members were present for which events, or who is currently feuding with whom over what topic. New posters are much more likely to put their foot in a big steaming pile of hate cycle #6, or vet jadedness than they are into inside jokes or the other positive aspects of the community, though.
Quote from: Bogre on February 22, 2016, 10:28:39 PM
Don't diss newbs, snark at vets or get aggressive at staff.
There are lots of times I decide not to post on a thread I think I could contribute to, just because the tone is already unpleasant.
I'm usually one of the leading posters in an online community, but I've found this one to be less accepting than most, in the past. I'm really not willing to be treated disrespectfully by anyone. Nobody should be.
However, I will say lately it's been getting much, much better.
Staff and players alike can argue points passionately without being disrespectful to each other.
Though it hasn't happened in awhile (Loving the transparency between Staff, players and even some of the code), one way that always never fails to alienate someone is the "Find out IC" shut down. I was told that, quite a few times, when I first started playing (I had a lot of questions that I felt couldn't help answered by Help files and the Helper chat was nonexistent at the time), and being told to find out IC with no other explanation really had me turned off about the community. I had little incentive to interact with the GDB community, as a whole, for quite awhile (I still played Armageddon, of course).
Probably ban me
Also, if it makes you feel any better, John, I subconsciously put people from the GDB into little category boxes. You share a box from a long time ago with Dar, Dan, and Riev. I think it's labeled "Crusty Vets." I hope you guys are comfy. ;D (Don't ask why those four. I don't know, it's subconscious!)
just do your best to be nice to others. it doesn't always work. i'm not sure there's such a thing as an internet community where people aren't terrible to each other sometimes. if there is, i'd kinda like to see it. (my opinion only)
Quote from: seidhr on February 23, 2016, 12:28:03 AM
just do your best to be nice to others. it doesn't always work. i'm not sure there's such a thing as an internet community where people aren't terrible to each other sometimes. if there is, i'd kinda like to see it. (my opinion only)
Rubies of Eventide. I've never played a game with such a fantastic community before. It was originally a MUD, but it was turned into an MMO. After being shutdown due to costs, the founder and friends played privately. Apparently this become known and a bunch of people kept joining or something. It became donation based, but that too failed after some time.
Everyone there was great though. I miss that game.
It had a pretty great/memorable soundtrack too.
https://youtu.be/nnb5O7n519Y
Quote from: Beethoven on February 22, 2016, 10:10:16 PM
Just try not to post dismissive memes or one-liners, I guess. It's like, I don't know you, so why are you being so rude? Most people aren't like that but when I make a thread because I think it might benefit other people and the first, immediate response I get is Peter Griffin saying "Oh my God, who the hell cares?" it doesn't make me feel very good, and it leads me to wonder if there's an undercurrent of "who the hell are you anyway and why do I care what you think?" I don't want to single anyone out or cause drama with anybody, so I hesitate to bring up this example, but I think it shows the kind of remarks that can lead people to feel like outsiders. Perhaps who I am (or who I'm not) is a non-issue in this case, but I can sympathize with anyone who perceives it that way when they're blown off by some vet that is an outspoken voice in the community.
Of course, I know this is the Internet and that's just kind of the way it is. I'm a member of other online communities in which people are often outright hostile, and I shrug it off because trolls will be trolls. I just don't expect to see that so much here, and it always surprises me. It doesn't matter so much because the game, which is what I'm here for, is largely anonymous anyway, but for someone who's more interested in the community side of things than I am, I could see it being a lot more upsetting.
You know, after reading this, I feel I should apologize. It is in my nature to make light of things that seem too dramatic. This whole thing ... It's just fanning the flames, to me. It's like ... Thanksgiving dinner, and multiple parties don't get along, and all it takes is one little comment ... Or we can go our separate ways, and be a dysfunctional family, again. Because I don't think it's possible to make everyone get along or agree. That's just not the way it works. But I do feel bad if I have made you feel bad.
not posting stupid memes in reply to things and taking the time to actually thoughtfully respond to threads is a good start.
i report flaming when i see it. i report nastiness when i see it.
if your posts have been deleted, you can probably look to me as a culprit, if it makes you feel better. i'm sure i'm not the only one who does it. but you can blame me.
i'm your gdb police officer making sure your posts aren't unnecessarily abusing posters.
that's how to make the gdb more welcoming. whether it's a vet or not - if you see nastiness, respond to it. tell it to go away. report it.
like posting memes about relating someone to princess bubblegum. whether the guy is crazy or not, you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for doing that, and go edit that out immediately if you haven't already. that's disgusting. you don't see me going into your threads and posting a picture of a cabbage throwing its arms up going "nobody gives a crap about what you post, so here's a cabbage."
no.
normally i try to post something entirely reasonable and you people go in and start detracting from the purpose of my thread, so i have to get defensive and say "no, this thread is about old medieval tactics and how they can be applied to the roleplay scene in armageddon, to include the definitions of certain weapons that we see in the game, as opposed to reality, and how we can make the game conform to a more realistic standpoint while still maintaining what we have created."
if you have nothing to contribute to the post other than a singular meme post, then here's a thought.
don't post.
Quote from: Vwest on February 22, 2016, 10:10:33 PM
Quote from: Lizzie on February 22, 2016, 09:26:22 PM
I think, honestly, all the newer players need is a little time and patience, and they'll come to understand that the ENTIRE playerbase is one big huge clique, and they're a member of it.
lol
Not sure what you thought was funny about that, I was being serious.
Oh, Lord.
Quote from: Synthesis on February 23, 2016, 03:51:59 AM
Quote from: Coat of Arms on February 23, 2016, 03:50:12 AM
Quote from: Synthesis on February 23, 2016, 03:32:56 AM
You're posting at like...0030-0330 on a Tuesday morning in the U.S. and wondering why people aren't online?
Well...it's because most players are in the United States, and most people in the United States are asleep.
Welcome to off-peak hell.
Which part of my post implies that I'm talking about this very moment exclusively? In fact, I expressly didn't. I'm not even online now, because they're not my playing hours. I'm talking about the entire time that I've had by current Allanaki commoner character, in which I have seen absolutely nothing whatsoever that I could get involved with, nothing that looks like it even has anything to get involved with, and can rarely find anybody to interact with even during peak hours. I specifically talk about peak hours, and a period of weeks. I don't know how that led you to the impression that I'm talking about off-peak hours and only just now. It's like you tried your hardest to misinterpret my point for the sake of being contrary and condescending.
It's like you tried your hardest to misinterpret my point for the sake of being butt-hurt.
By which I mean to say I was being sympathetic to someone else with a similar plight, not being condescending. Until you decided to be a little whiner about it. Now I'm being condescending.
Whatever the way is, this is not it. No poster should be treated this way, ever.
The cabbage pretty well covered my thoughts. I also know I'm guilty of snark when I bother to post at all, so I'll work on not doing that.
Dude, if someone is going to get their panties in a wad while I'm attempting to be sympathetic and explain something, then there just isn't any helping them.
Some folks are going to get butt-hurt about something, sometimes, regardless of how nice and sugar-coated you put it out there.
I'm an extremely reasonable person. However, I'm not your grandmother. I'm not your priest.
Sometimes, idiots need to be told they are idiots, and crybabies need to be told they are crybabies. Sometimes, being a little mean and sarcastic -is- the reasonable thing to do, because sometimes:
(http://data.whicdn.com/images/41739810/original.jpg)
this is a thread about how to make the gdb more welcoming, not less, for fucks sakes.
I think the GDB is just fine, as long as you aren't a complete dingbat or a self-entitled crybaby.
If you are, well, sometimes people "being mean" isn't them being mean for its own sake...sometimes "being mean" is an attempt to correct your knowledge deficit or your poor attitude.
Like...I'm a pretty nice person, in real life...but if I see you fucking up...by god, I'm gonna let you know about it. And there are a whole lot of people in this world who just cannot take a word of criticism without turning it into some sort of epic personal vendetta.
Also...most "nice" people just don't understand that there is a type of person who will come in and ruin everything you enjoy, and will do it with a smile on their face, while they're complaining loudly that -you- are the problem.
Well...guess what, dude? I'm not the problem. I've been posting on this board for a decade and a half, and as far as I can remember, I've only ever been banned for revealing certain code details that were considered beyond the pale at the time. I'm pretty sure that if I was such a dickweed that I warranted criticism, it would've been delivered by now, unless the standards are suddenly changing to accommodate precious snowflakes.
The fact of the matter is that the culture of the GDB has always been snarky and sarcastic, because the vast majority of our playerbase is a bunch of passive-aggressive nerds, and that's how passive-aggressive nerds behave when they have the anonymity and safety of the internet. I know this, because I am one.
We aren't communications or conflict-resolution majors or hostage negotiators, and it is not reasonable to expect every one of our half-baked posts to be welcoming and politically correct, and to expect us to calmly and reasonable talk people away from the edge of lunacy.
nah. there is no need to be mean.
if you have nothing nice to say to someone, or a way to correct them in a nice way, just don't post. at all.
for instance, your post was not in a good way.
you could have just said, "maybe clans are hopping. maybe you're off-peak, like i am, in which case it's hard to find anyone at these hours because most people are in the u.s."
instead, you posted on the assumption that they were off-peak (they later expressed that, apparently, they are not), and you had just interpreted what they said and made a post that - to them - was vaguely aggressive. they responded as such, and you responded even more aggressively.
you don't need to call someone a whiner. or be condescending.
that's the problem with the gdb that everyone talks about. we have people who are condescending, who call people whiners, who are just -generally- mean, and this has become an acceptable "norm". it is not acceptable, however. it is not called for. if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion of how to make the gdb more welcoming (by not calling people dingbats or suggesting that you have to be mean to correct someone for a 'knowledge deficit' or 'poor attitude'), then please do not post in this thread.
see what i did there?
I don't think it's some radically extreme assumption to guess that someone is posting on the GDB at the same general times they are playing the game. I was wrong about that, in this case, but it's not some character flaw. It's a pretty reasonable assumption, actually. That post was not rude at all. I was commiserating and being sympathetic to another player who I guessed was also playing single-player mode.
Then, they accused me of being a dick about it, so, you know...I shut that shit down, because I'm not going to let crybabies make me out to be some kind of monstrous persona when I didn't do anything wrong.
The problem is that people calling for calmness and niceness always sort of win the rhetorical game, because everyone likes calm and nice, so once you claim that high ground (no matter how wrong you are), it forces everyone else into an uphill battle to prove that HEY, WE'RE CALM AND NICE, TOO.
Even when calmness and niceness aren't necessarily warranted.
And yes, sometimes there is a need to be mean. Or at least, to do things that would be mean when taken out of context. So, for example, when the butt-hurt brigade comes around and starts complaining about people being mean...you know what? Fuck that shit. This community is working just fine, and has been working just fine for two decades, and if you can't find a place in it to fit in without feeling like you're being persecuted...we're not the problem, you are.
You've both said your piece.
Let's go back to making the GDB a more welcoming place.
A little care in one's choice of phrasing goes a long way.
Let's not make the mods step in on this thread. While I would find it hilariously ironic, it would also make baby ginka sad.
I've likely been one of the bigger offenders but this seems appropriate:
(http://simplereminders.com/domains/simplereminders.com/uploads/images/blog/arabian-proverb-words-tonue-true-kind-necessary-4c2q.jpg)
As for those who seem angry and agitated it's often not because of the poster they may be interacting with but probably because of some other problem we may know nothing about. In these cases it's best avoid taking it personally.
I think trying to understand the message others are putting out there is more important than trying to correct them. And it's okay to disagree but when we become disagreeable it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
Well and wisely said, Molten Heart.
Is it bad that I'm going to use that message on the poster during my next mudsex scene? Or is it awesome?
Quote from: nauta on February 23, 2016, 01:35:48 PM
Is it bad that I'm going to use that message on the poster during my next mudsex scene? Or is it awesome?
Hopefully your partner will be Molten Heart!
Quote from: Malken on February 23, 2016, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: nauta on February 23, 2016, 01:35:48 PM
Is it bad that I'm going to use that message on the poster during my next mudsex scene? Or is it awesome?
Hopefully your partner will be Molten Heart!
If I could only be this lucky.
I'd like to interject here that while I do agree that consideration in posting is usually the better route (especially when addressing new people), I think it's important that we not stifle people's freedom of expression overmuch. Sure, one person ripping on the game, the staff, and everyone is clearly more destructive than not. But one person venting about something or another openly every once in a while is healthy. It keeps the community honest, and allows people to relax here. It's a game about brutal people living in a brutal world, after all. If we were playing Candy Crush the RPG, we could probably play language police without endangering our game, but not here, as much.
venting is one thing. if you want to vent and be angry, do it in your own thread. don't go into someone elses thread (especially one titled how to be MORE welcoming), and then be an incorrigible dick. that's just unfair.
The Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint!
Sorry, watching Walter Sobchak clips. People need to take stuff less seriously and cut back on the negativity.
With the recent changes, and this current discussion I thought we'd take a look at this thread:
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,46432.0.html
There was another discussion that was going on not too long ago, that got so toxic Nessalin had to delete several posts just to keep it civil. Half the problem stems from the fact people don't realize how utterly negative or just out right jerks they are being, and the other half stems from the fact that even if they do realize it, they have been around long enough to get away with such crap.
The most common reason for negativity is usually when someone presents an idea. This game has people who are so against change and its been this way for so long that I don't think its every going to change. They are quick to just attack, belittle or just try to drive away, the above link being a good example.
The people here haven't changed in years and years, and they won't change now. Luckily for newbies, there is more awareness and staff eventually do step in to moderate. Again people can mostly expect negativity and attacks when trying to present an idea or aguement, so be ready to defend yourself with well thought out posts. And if you have an idea, the link above should inspire you to present it and not give up or back down to any level of toxicity here. :)
man i was an unforgivable asshole in that thread.
i am so sorry guys.
My suggestion is that you stop the GDB hate cycles.
Years ago there was a "we have tavern sitters" hate cycle. When I'd see a tavern sitter in the game I'd wonder why you guys were trying to make this person feel like crap? It doesn't hurt you that someone mostly wants to sit in taverns and rp that. It's not the game I like to play but I'd make a point to stop by if someone was hanging around in taverns just to rp a bit.
I remember the GDB piling on the indies. There was an indy merchant in Tuluk, obviously his first character, probably had way too much sid, very successful, multiple apartments. I was only on the periphery of that guy's story but I don't understand why people like that bother you GDB people so much. His story did not hurt anyone. He took nothing from anyone. Instead of seeing it as an opportunity to steal from the guy or shake him down in the game, you get on the GDB and now it's gone so far as to now have a Nenyuk tax. There's no rp in that.
What else - mudsex, too friendly with X class/race, I'm sure I'm missing a few. These things don't pop out of the blue - you see someone in the game and you try to control their behavior by posting on the GDB. If it doesn't break the rules, just let people play their game. Learn to live and let live or, more IC, let grow fat and then pk.
Quote from: burble on February 24, 2016, 08:02:47 AM
My suggestion is that you stop the GDB hate cycles.
Years ago there was a "we have tavern sitters" hate cycle. When I'd see a tavern sitter in the game I'd wonder why you guys were trying to make this person feel like crap? It doesn't hurt you that someone mostly wants to sit in taverns and rp that. It's not the game I like to play but I'd make a point to stop by if someone was hanging around in taverns just to rp a bit.
I remember the GDB piling on the indies. There was an indy merchant in Tuluk, obviously his first character, probably had way too much sid, very successful, multiple apartments. I was only on the periphery of that guy's story but I don't understand why people like that bother you GDB people so much. His story did not hurt anyone. He took nothing from anyone. Instead of seeing it as an opportunity to steal from the guy or shake him down in the game, you get on the GDB and now it's gone so far as to now have a Nenyuk tax. There's no rp in that.
What else - mudsex, too friendly with X class/race, I'm sure I'm missing a few. These things don't pop out of the blue - you see someone in the game and you try to control their behavior by posting on the GDB. If it doesn't break the rules, just let people play their game. Learn to live and let live or, more IC, let grow fat and then pk.
Highfive, man. Well said.
I'm only going to post nicely now. *
*excluding the OOC political threads
I'm only going to post naughtily now.
Quote from: nauta on February 24, 2016, 11:54:27 PM
I'm only going to post naughtily now.
Wrong kind of welcoming. ;D
Quote from: nauta on February 24, 2016, 11:54:27 PM
I'm only going to post naughtily now.
You can naughty me any time you want
Quote from: Case on February 25, 2016, 12:22:18 AM
Quote from: nauta on February 24, 2016, 11:54:27 PM
I'm only going to post naughtily now.
You can naughty me any time you want
Can I watch you both be naughty? ;D